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        "videoId": "corvallis-2026-04-09-council-work-session",
        "title": "Council Work Session",
        "date": "2026-04-09",
        "committee": "Council Work Session",
        "detailUrl": "https://www.corvallisoregon.gov/mc/page/council-work-session-137",
        "videoUrl": "https://vimeo.com/1182011054",
        "description": "Everyone is welcome and encouraged to attend City Council work sessions. This work session will be held in-person and virtually. See the published agenda for work session details and participation instructions. The public may register to watch the meeting live on the internet via this link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_eexdD_n0TWq6bwLEBItTsw",
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      "rawSrt": "1\n00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:01,380\nQuiet, please.\n\n2\n00:00:02,620 --> 00:00:06,280\nAll right, everybody. My watch says it's four o'clock, so let's go ahead and call\n\n3\n00:00:06,340 --> 00:00:10,220\nto order today's meeting of-- today's work session of the\n\n4\n00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:11,200\nCorvallis City Council.\n\n5\n00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,700\nOne big topic for today, so let's just get to it and take up all our time.\n\n6\n00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,940\nOur facility investments, police and civic campus options.\n\n7\n00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:22,800\nWhy don't you go ahead and hand it over to-\n\n8\n00:00:23,740 --> 00:00:24,560\nI'm going to hand it back.\n\n9\n00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:25,420\nOh, okay.\n\n10\n00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:31,200\nYeah. I'll just kick it off with some comments just to\n\n11\n00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,259\nprovide some\n\n12\n00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:37,700\nperspective and background as we reenter this conversation,\n\n13\n00:00:37,740 --> 00:00:38,800\nand then I'll turn it over\n\n14\n00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:42,629\nto the smart people in the room, our architects and\n\n15\n00:00:43,540 --> 00:00:43,940\nMary.\n\n16\n00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,140\nAs we've talked\n\n17\n00:00:47,020 --> 00:00:50,980\nmany times before, Corvallis has largely ignored our\n\n18\n00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,000\nfacilities\n\n19\n00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:53,100\nfor\n\n20\n00:00:53,940 --> 00:00:54,560\ndecades.\n\n21\n00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,800\nAnd we have seen some recent progress and wins in that\n\n22\n00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,160\nwe remodeled Fire Station 2, we remodeled Fire Station 3 with\n\n23\n00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,400\nthe federal ARPA funds, and in several months we'll be\n\n24\n00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,360\nbreaking ground on park maintenance facilities.\n\n25\n00:01:12,380 --> 00:01:15,060\nSo those certainly are exciting things.\n\n26\n00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,440\nBut we continue to push our existing facilities\n\n27\n00:01:20,460 --> 00:01:22,620\nto a breaking point, and there truly are\n\n28\n00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:27,140\nimpacts to staff, operational impacts.\n\n29\n00:01:27,260 --> 00:01:29,540\nYou see quite a few staff in the audience because\n\n30\n00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,800\nthis is an issue that is\n\n31\n00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:35,619\nvery important to all of us.\n\n32\n00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:37,580\nAnd as I was\n\n33\n00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:42,460\nthinking about that and what we've done over these decades, I really\n\n34\n00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:45,640\ndo think Corvallis, in the way we've balanced our budget,\n\n35\n00:01:47,020 --> 00:01:50,890\nwe've expanded services at the cost of not investing\n\n36\n00:01:50,940 --> 00:01:52,320\nin our facilities.\n\n37\n00:01:53,420 --> 00:01:53,840\nWe've\n\n38\n00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,040\ncreated this false narrative or expectation that you don't need\n\n39\n00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,600\nto invest in facilities. Where if we had been\n\n40\n00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,250\nregularly investing, we would've been taking out bonds, we would have\n\n41\n00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:06,740\ndebt,\n\n42\n00:02:08,081 --> 00:02:11,960\nor we would've been putting money aside for these facilities,\n\n43\n00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:12,780\nand yet we\n\n44\n00:02:13,620 --> 00:02:15,460\nhaven't done that.\n\n45\n00:02:16,700 --> 00:02:20,650\nAnd yet investing in facilities, civic facilities, is really the\n\n46\n00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,660\nnorm. Most communities do this\n\n47\n00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,940\non a regular basis.\n\n48\n00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,120\nAnd you don't have to look very far.\n\n49\n00:02:29,420 --> 00:02:31,360\nYou look to our neighbors in Albany.\n\n50\n00:02:32,540 --> 00:02:35,060\nThey have what I'll call a newish city hall.\n\n51\n00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,130\nIt's pushing 30 years now, but that's a purpose-built facility that is\n\n52\n00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:40,120\nserving them well.\n\n53\n00:02:41,230 --> 00:02:45,120\nThey have a brand-new police station, a brand-new\n\n54\n00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:49,100\ndowntown fire station. They have two\n\n55\n00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,000\nsatellite fire stations that are relatively new.\n\n56\n00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,260\nThey purchased a building and repurposed it into an expanded library.\n\n57\n00:02:57,340 --> 00:03:00,220\nSo again, you see that investment from our neighbors right there.\n\n58\n00:03:01,060 --> 00:03:02,100\nYou go north of us,\n\n59\n00:03:02,940 --> 00:03:06,880\nMonmouth, just a couple of years ago, opened up a brand-new\n\n60\n00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:08,660\npurpose-built city hall.\n\n61\n00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,640\nMonmouth's neighbor, Independence, years before Monmouth,\n\n62\n00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:17,700\nbuilt a civic center that houses their city\n\n63\n00:03:17,740 --> 00:03:21,420\nadministration and their police department.\n\n64\n00:03:22,820 --> 00:03:26,800\nAnd then interestingly, my in-laws, they live out in Scio.\n\n65\n00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,820\nI don't know if any of you have been to Scio.\n\n66\n00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:31,220\nIt's a town of about 1,000 people,\n\n67\n00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,010\nand I've had to be out there a little more frequently because my in-laws are\n\n68\n00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:36,400\nrequiring a little more attention.\n\n69\n00:03:36,700 --> 00:03:37,100\nAnd\n\n70\n00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,540\nI've seen recently they are building from the ground up a purpose-built\n\n71\n00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,700\ncity hall. So big or small, communities do\n\n72\n00:03:45,740 --> 00:03:47,880\ninvest in their civic\n\n73\n00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,500\nbuildings and facilities.\n\n74\n00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:55,720\nAnd then if you think about even private companies, they are\n\n75\n00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,520\nprofit-driven, so they're generally not going to do something if there's not a\n\n76\n00:03:59,530 --> 00:04:00,620\nreturn on investment.\n\n77\n00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:05,400\nAnd yet they do invest in not just factories, but other\n\n78\n00:04:05,460 --> 00:04:09,100\nfacilities, office buildings and things, because they know there is a return on\n\n79\n00:04:09,140 --> 00:04:09,740\ninvestment.\n\n80\n00:04:11,820 --> 00:04:15,370\nThey know that in that it helps attract and\n\n81\n00:04:15,420 --> 00:04:19,380\nretain high-quality staff, something certainly we want to\n\n82\n00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,060\ndo. It creates an environment where there's collaboration,\n\n83\n00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,640\nwhere the staff feel valued,\n\n84\n00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,300\nwhere they feel safe, comfortable.\n\n85\n00:04:28,940 --> 00:04:32,520\nAll those things leverage this return on investment of\n\n86\n00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:34,200\neffectiveness, efficiency.\n\n87\n00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:39,560\nSo I think we can take some notes from the private sector that there is\n\n88\n00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,840\na return on these investments, truly,\n\n89\n00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:43,740\nin how we operate.\n\n90\n00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,220\nAnd nothing in our plans comes close to\n\n91\n00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,560\na private company's campus or\n\n92\n00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:53,380\nfacilities.\n\n93\n00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,560\nBut I do think our staff should be able to expect that they can\n\n94\n00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:00,680\ncome to work in a place that is safe,\n\n95\n00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,020\nthat is comfortable,\n\n96\n00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,660\nthat's functional,\n\n97\n00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,280\nthat's equitable,\n\n98\n00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,960\nso they feel valued, and that they can do their work well, that they can\n\n99\n00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:14,860\ncollaborate and communicate well.\n\n100\n00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,720\nSo well-functioning facilities are a foundational\n\n101\n00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:20,440\naspect\n\n102\n00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:23,140\nof a high-performing organization.\n\n103\n00:05:26,380 --> 00:05:27,840\nAnd it's interesting, as\n\n104\n00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:32,960\nover the years that I've been here, we've brought forward different master plans.\n\n105\n00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,680\nYou think of a water master plan, the wastewater master plan,\n\n106\n00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,420\nand I know council understands, the community understands we need to\n\n107\n00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,340\ninvest in that infrastructure.\n\n108\n00:05:45,380 --> 00:05:48,610\nAnd those are expensive. Water treatment plant, wastewater treatment plant.\n\n109\n00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,570\nWe have to invest in those. Why? Because the community's growing, and\n\n110\n00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,340\nso those facilities have to accommodate that\n\n111\n00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,200\ngrowth. Environmental regulations\n\n112\n00:05:59,260 --> 00:06:02,930\nchange, and so those plants need to\n\n113\n00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:05,410\naccommodate that. There's a parallel.\n\n114\n00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:09,348\nIt's directly the same with our buildings that house our staffAs our\n\n115\n00:06:09,388 --> 00:06:11,608\ncommunity grows, we've added staff.\n\n116\n00:06:11,668 --> 00:06:13,648\nWe need to accommodate those staff.\n\n117\n00:06:14,388 --> 00:06:18,168\nAnd as the workforce evolves, we need to accommodate that\n\n118\n00:06:18,228 --> 00:06:19,308\nnew environment\n\n119\n00:06:20,388 --> 00:06:22,848\nwith the evolved staffing that we have.\n\n120\n00:06:25,448 --> 00:06:25,668\nSo\n\n121\n00:06:26,628 --> 00:06:30,208\nour buildings and facilities are no different than what we see in our\n\n122\n00:06:30,568 --> 00:06:31,748\nwastewater treatment plants.\n\n123\n00:06:33,708 --> 00:06:34,568\nAnd in fact,\n\n124\n00:06:35,768 --> 00:06:38,188\nwe do have a facilities master plan.\n\n125\n00:06:38,728 --> 00:06:41,728\nThis was adopted by the council in January of\n\n126\n00:06:41,888 --> 00:06:45,628\n2022. It's our citywide facilities\n\n127\n00:06:45,708 --> 00:06:49,248\nstrategy. So it is a master plan. And while\n\n128\n00:06:49,308 --> 00:06:52,748\ntoday we're talking about the civic campus and the police facilities,\n\n129\n00:06:54,908 --> 00:06:58,628\nthere are many more facilities yet that we need to address.\n\n130\n00:06:59,248 --> 00:07:03,198\nAnd I want you to keep that in mind as we move forward in the months ahead, when\n\n131\n00:07:03,228 --> 00:07:06,808\nwe start talking about funding and how we might\n\n132\n00:07:06,968 --> 00:07:10,768\nfund facility projects. And then\n\n133\n00:07:10,848 --> 00:07:14,468\nlastly, I think it's good to remind ourselves\n\n134\n00:07:15,908 --> 00:07:19,268\nthat really at the heart, at the very beginning of our\n\n135\n00:07:19,308 --> 00:07:23,148\nconversations and planning for civic campus and police station, was\n\n136\n00:07:23,208 --> 00:07:27,198\nthis idea that this is not just about staff space, it's\n\n137\n00:07:27,268 --> 00:07:28,758\nnot just about office space,\n\n138\n00:07:29,748 --> 00:07:33,668\nbut it truly is an opportunity to make a community\n\n139\n00:07:33,728 --> 00:07:35,527\nspace. It's really a\n\n140\n00:07:36,668 --> 00:07:40,548\nonce in a lifetime opportunity to create something downtown.\n\n141\n00:07:40,678 --> 00:07:42,298\nAnd I think it's exciting,\n\n142\n00:07:43,128 --> 00:07:46,768\nkind of that refocus on downtown that the community has had and\n\n143\n00:07:47,348 --> 00:07:51,268\nhow those conversations are developing, how projects are\n\n144\n00:07:51,288 --> 00:07:52,148\nmoving forward.\n\n145\n00:07:53,848 --> 00:07:55,928\nAnd I do want to remind everyone that\n\n146\n00:07:57,168 --> 00:08:00,628\nthe beginning, the driver, the impetus for this focus on downtown\n\n147\n00:08:01,108 --> 00:08:04,548\nwas actually when we brought civic campus and police station\n\n148\n00:08:05,188 --> 00:08:08,808\nproject forward years ago. That's what really kind of kicked that\n\n149\n00:08:08,928 --> 00:08:09,188\noff.\n\n150\n00:08:10,148 --> 00:08:12,848\nSo I do think these projects specifically\n\n151\n00:08:15,128 --> 00:08:18,308\ncan have a huge impact far outside\n\n152\n00:08:18,928 --> 00:08:22,868\njust how they impact the way the city delivers services.\n\n153\n00:08:26,528 --> 00:08:30,448\nAs we move forward today, we are not seeking a decision from\n\n154\n00:08:30,508 --> 00:08:34,328\nthe council. And in fact, you wouldn't be able to provide a\n\n155\n00:08:34,369 --> 00:08:37,548\nwell-reasoned or well-informed decision today because we haven't talked\n\n156\n00:08:37,608 --> 00:08:40,948\nabout the revenue side, how we might pay for that, and what\n\n157\n00:08:41,528 --> 00:08:42,489\nmight be possible.\n\n158\n00:08:43,568 --> 00:08:45,048\nSo this really is to\n\n159\n00:08:46,388 --> 00:08:50,148\nrespond to the resolution that the council passed to bring\n\n160\n00:08:50,248 --> 00:08:53,108\nforward this option and\n\n161\n00:08:54,848 --> 00:08:58,768\nimplications of moving forward in different ways with these facilities, together or\n\n162\n00:08:58,828 --> 00:08:59,248\nseparate.\n\n163\n00:09:00,788 --> 00:09:04,128\nSo that's what we'll work towards today and provide.\n\n164\n00:09:05,028 --> 00:09:07,068\nAnd it's important to keep this information\n\n165\n00:09:07,888 --> 00:09:11,468\nin mind as we move forward in May and June,\n\n166\n00:09:11,528 --> 00:09:15,368\nand if it goes on a month or two beyond that, and we start\n\n167\n00:09:15,448 --> 00:09:18,128\nmaking decisions about the facilities and the funding.\n\n168\n00:09:18,948 --> 00:09:22,788\nThis is really foundational for that, for you, hopefully also\n\n169\n00:09:22,868 --> 00:09:25,028\nfor the community too.\n\n170\n00:09:26,608 --> 00:09:28,948\nSo with that, I'll be turning it over.\n\n171\n00:09:29,308 --> 00:09:30,988\nI think Ian, you're going to kick us off.\n\n172\n00:09:32,608 --> 00:09:35,028\nIan is going to lead us through a section.\n\n173\n00:09:35,068 --> 00:09:37,388\nMary's going to talk about sustainable decision-making.\n\n174\n00:09:38,208 --> 00:09:41,628\nI think the best way to handle this is hold your questions till\n\n175\n00:09:42,108 --> 00:09:45,788\nIan's done, we'll open it up. Mary's done, and then once we're done with\n\n176\n00:09:45,848 --> 00:09:46,248\neverything,\n\n177\n00:09:47,108 --> 00:09:50,888\nhopefully we'll have some good conversation and general questions\n\n178\n00:09:50,928 --> 00:09:51,608\nat the end.\n\n179\n00:09:52,948 --> 00:09:55,208\nAny questions before I hand it over to Ian?\n\n180\n00:09:56,748 --> 00:09:58,168\nOkay. Good.\n\n181\n00:09:58,388 --> 00:09:58,608\nAll right.\n\n182\n00:09:58,928 --> 00:10:01,328\nAnd Ian, you can introduce yourself and John.\n\n183\n00:10:02,448 --> 00:10:06,388\nGood afternoon, council. Great to see many of you again.\n\n184\n00:10:06,408 --> 00:10:08,538\nFor those of you who I haven't met before,\n\n185\n00:10:09,368 --> 00:10:13,108\nmy name is Ian Gelber. I'm a partner with FFA Architecture and Interiors of\n\n186\n00:10:13,308 --> 00:10:16,788\nPortland. We're a 70-year-old practice that has been in\n\n187\n00:10:16,888 --> 00:10:18,408\npretty much that entire time.\n\n188\n00:10:19,288 --> 00:10:22,888\nMost of our work is focused on public facilities like\n\n189\n00:10:22,948 --> 00:10:25,348\nthe facilities that you're considering today.\n\n190\n00:10:26,528 --> 00:10:30,008\nI'm joined here today with John Peet, who is our project manager.\n\n191\n00:10:30,427 --> 00:10:33,988\nHe's here to make sure that I don't say anything that I wasn't supposed to say or\n\n192\n00:10:34,248 --> 00:10:36,528\nto actually correct me if I get something wrong.\n\n193\n00:10:37,848 --> 00:10:41,628\nFor most of my 28-year career, I have been focused\n\n194\n00:10:41,768 --> 00:10:45,588\non public facilities. Within the last 10, my\n\n195\n00:10:45,648 --> 00:10:46,748\nfocus has been helping\n\n196\n00:10:47,808 --> 00:10:51,568\nmunicipalities like yours get from conversations like\n\n197\n00:10:51,608 --> 00:10:53,388\ntoday to opening day.\n\n198\n00:10:53,988 --> 00:10:53,998\nYeah.\n\n199\n00:10:53,998 --> 00:10:56,808\nAnd all the various ways that those types of things happen.\n\n200\n00:10:58,588 --> 00:11:00,328\nWith that, we're going to dive in.\n\n201\n00:11:02,808 --> 00:11:06,508\nSo we have here. We've organized this in such a\n\n202\n00:11:06,588 --> 00:11:10,348\nway to reset the stage. It's been\n\n203\n00:11:10,948 --> 00:11:14,688\na little over a year or more since we've had a chance to, since\n\n204\n00:11:14,748 --> 00:11:18,368\ncouncil made the decision about which vision that they wanted to move forward with.\n\n205\n00:11:19,228 --> 00:11:22,468\nSo we want to reintroduce that, particularly for council members who weren't a part\n\n206\n00:11:22,488 --> 00:11:23,548\nof those conversations.\n\n207\n00:11:24,548 --> 00:11:28,388\nAnd then the bulk of the conversation is really about how these projects get\n\n208\n00:11:28,468 --> 00:11:32,228\nimplemented. And we'll go through a series of scenarios and talk\n\n209\n00:11:32,288 --> 00:11:36,188\nabout the pros and cons and what the risks might be to full\n\n210\n00:11:36,228 --> 00:11:40,008\nimplementation. And then lastly, as Mark mentioned, then there's the\n\n211\n00:11:40,048 --> 00:11:42,688\nconversation about what the upcoming process.\n\n212\n00:11:46,128 --> 00:11:47,448\nSo resetting the stage.\n\n213\n00:11:49,568 --> 00:11:53,028\nThis endeavor began in 2022 with the master\n\n214\n00:11:53,108 --> 00:11:56,348\nplan that Mark just mentioned.\n\n215\n00:11:57,528 --> 00:11:59,258\nAnd so within that\n\n216\n00:12:00,868 --> 00:12:04,708\neffort, we had tasks of assessing the different\n\n217\n00:12:04,748 --> 00:12:08,348\nfacilities that are in Corvallis's facility portfolio.\n\n218\n00:12:09,008 --> 00:12:12,904\nAnd so we looked at a range of different thingsThis gets at\n\n219\n00:12:12,924 --> 00:12:16,704\nwhat Mark talked about initially, which is that if the red\n\n220\n00:12:16,764 --> 00:12:20,694\nline represents the population growth of the city\n\n221\n00:12:20,704 --> 00:12:21,544\nof Corvallis\n\n222\n00:12:22,424 --> 00:12:23,724\nup until, I think about\n\n223\n00:12:24,544 --> 00:12:25,644\na little past 2020.\n\n224\n00:12:26,984 --> 00:12:30,664\nExcuse me. And that the projected growth is to continue to\n\n225\n00:12:30,744 --> 00:12:32,783\nabout 75,000 by 2040.\n\n226\n00:12:33,934 --> 00:12:37,884\nThe dark blue represents the amount of square footage in your existing facilities.\n\n227\n00:12:37,944 --> 00:12:38,234\nMm-hmm.\n\n228\n00:12:38,784 --> 00:12:42,454\nAnd you start to see where that gap has\n\n229\n00:12:42,944 --> 00:12:46,804\noccurred over time, where your facility investment, just\n\n230\n00:12:46,844 --> 00:12:50,104\nfrom a space needs, hasn't kept up with your population growth.\n\n231\n00:12:50,864 --> 00:12:54,404\nAnd then as that dashed line moves past, that is the\n\n232\n00:12:54,414 --> 00:12:55,864\nexpected growth that's to happen.\n\n233\n00:12:56,784 --> 00:13:00,764\nAnd so there's a risk that you sort of get deeper in the hole much quickly\n\n234\n00:13:00,844 --> 00:13:03,524\nif you don't take the steps in some ways in the\n\n235\n00:13:04,384 --> 00:13:05,244\nreasonable future.\n\n236\n00:13:08,724 --> 00:13:12,044\nIn addition to looking at space needs, and we'll talk a little bit about space\n\n237\n00:13:12,104 --> 00:13:15,984\nneeds again, we were responsible for doing ranking the\n\n238\n00:13:16,044 --> 00:13:19,404\ncurrent facilities relative to their condition.\n\n239\n00:13:19,464 --> 00:13:22,914\nAnd we've got four buckets. We have administrative, which\n\n240\n00:13:22,914 --> 00:13:23,524\nincludes\n\n241\n00:13:24,344 --> 00:13:25,884\ncity administration, city hall,\n\n242\n00:13:26,784 --> 00:13:30,484\nHR, everything that is centered around the management of the\n\n243\n00:13:30,564 --> 00:13:34,484\ncity. We have operations, that includes public works and parks\n\n244\n00:13:34,584 --> 00:13:38,244\nmaintenance, and then we have public safety, which is police\n\n245\n00:13:38,804 --> 00:13:42,654\nas well as fire. And then public-facing functions that are\n\n246\n00:13:42,884 --> 00:13:44,864\nlibrary, the pool, theater,\n\n247\n00:13:45,744 --> 00:13:46,704\nthey fall in that last.\n\n248\n00:13:47,784 --> 00:13:50,464\nAt the bottom you see our sort of rating scale.\n\n249\n00:13:50,764 --> 00:13:54,504\nEverything from poor, which is one or the dark red, to\n\n250\n00:13:54,624 --> 00:13:55,944\ngreen, which is good.\n\n251\n00:13:57,424 --> 00:14:01,234\nSo the dark red that you see in operations, that's parks maintenance.\n\n252\n00:14:01,924 --> 00:14:05,024\nAnd if you've ever toured parks maintenance facility, I don't think that's\n\n253\n00:14:05,104 --> 00:14:05,684\narguable.\n\n254\n00:14:07,644 --> 00:14:10,944\nIf you look at public safety, that is the law enforcement building.\n\n255\n00:14:11,764 --> 00:14:15,364\nAnd then the green aspects there, or there's a little bit red there\n\n256\n00:14:15,444 --> 00:14:16,784\nalso for city hall.\n\n257\n00:14:17,684 --> 00:14:21,144\nAnd then the green aspect is the investments that you've already done with the fire\n\n258\n00:14:21,204 --> 00:14:22,504\nstation work that you've completed.\n\n259\n00:14:27,164 --> 00:14:30,984\nSo this is a representation of those space needs with those\n\n260\n00:14:31,084 --> 00:14:34,624\nsame buckets, the administrative, the operations, the public safety, and public\n\n261\n00:14:34,664 --> 00:14:35,064\nfacing.\n\n262\n00:14:35,884 --> 00:14:39,204\nThe light gray represents your current square footage.\n\n263\n00:14:40,544 --> 00:14:44,204\nThe dark red represents to meet today's current needs,\n\n264\n00:14:44,524 --> 00:14:46,304\nhow much more square footage you would need.\n\n265\n00:14:47,184 --> 00:14:51,064\nAnd then to the bluish cyan color\n\n266\n00:14:51,624 --> 00:14:55,184\nrepresents if you're projecting that growth out to\n\n267\n00:14:55,324 --> 00:14:59,064\n2040, how much additional space you would need on top of what you have\n\n268\n00:14:59,124 --> 00:14:59,504\ntoday.\n\n269\n00:15:03,184 --> 00:15:07,084\nI will say that in this process of evaluation of the\n\n270\n00:15:07,244 --> 00:15:09,304\ncity facilities, we looked at everything.\n\n271\n00:15:09,524 --> 00:15:10,694\nWe went through 10 departments,\n\n272\n00:15:11,604 --> 00:15:15,504\nand 17 facilities overall. John's going to correct me if I get that wrong.\n\n273\n00:15:15,644 --> 00:15:15,844\nThanks.\n\n274\n00:15:15,854 --> 00:15:16,244\nSure.\n\n275\n00:15:19,924 --> 00:15:23,404\nAs part of that process, we established guiding principles\n\n276\n00:15:23,444 --> 00:15:27,224\nfor the arc of what we're talking about, both in that facility\n\n277\n00:15:27,284 --> 00:15:30,464\nassessment and moving forward into concept design.\n\n278\n00:15:31,284 --> 00:15:35,244\nAll of those guiding principles came from the work that council\n\n279\n00:15:35,284 --> 00:15:38,384\nhad already done in a series of policy documents.\n\n280\n00:15:38,744 --> 00:15:42,564\nSo if you remember, we had a matrix that we presented last\n\n281\n00:15:42,584 --> 00:15:43,444\ntime that showed\n\n282\n00:15:44,564 --> 00:15:48,424\nall the things they were doing and how they tied back to specific policy decisions\n\n283\n00:15:48,804 --> 00:15:52,604\nthe council had made over time. And so it just reinforced the\n\n284\n00:15:52,644 --> 00:15:53,864\npriorities that council had,\n\n285\n00:15:54,824 --> 00:15:58,684\nand we felt like it was a good way to kind of evaluate the steps that we were\n\n286\n00:15:58,724 --> 00:15:59,184\ntaking.\n\n287\n00:16:03,344 --> 00:16:07,064\nSo let's talk about the decision that council made back\n\n288\n00:16:07,284 --> 00:16:09,264\nin November of 2024.\n\n289\n00:16:10,444 --> 00:16:13,684\nWe presented multiple scenarios about how\n\n290\n00:16:14,324 --> 00:16:16,224\nCivic Campus and the police station\n\n291\n00:16:17,244 --> 00:16:19,744\ncould be configured around Madison.\n\n292\n00:16:19,824 --> 00:16:21,724\nThese were really the sites that we focused on.\n\n293\n00:16:24,244 --> 00:16:27,904\nThis was land that the city either owned or was in the process of owning,\n\n294\n00:16:28,324 --> 00:16:30,044\nand we felt like this was the right place with\n\n295\n00:16:30,884 --> 00:16:33,624\nother priorities around Madison Avenue.\n\n296\n00:16:35,124 --> 00:16:38,704\nMost of the other versions that we talked about with you involved\n\n297\n00:16:39,384 --> 00:16:41,364\nkeeping the existing city hall or not.\n\n298\n00:16:42,404 --> 00:16:45,984\nThis was the ultimate vision that council decided, and I'm going to walk through\n\n299\n00:16:45,994 --> 00:16:48,604\nquickly just the different categories,\n\n300\n00:16:49,204 --> 00:16:51,644\nwhy they were ranked the way that they were.\n\n301\n00:16:52,244 --> 00:16:55,524\nSo in the white bars that you see, anything on the left\n\n302\n00:16:56,144 --> 00:16:59,724\nwhere it has a little negative were considered less desirable\n\n303\n00:16:59,804 --> 00:17:01,484\nrelative to those guiding principles.\n\n304\n00:17:01,944 --> 00:17:04,924\nAnything where it goes all the way to the right where the positive is,\n\n305\n00:17:05,744 --> 00:17:08,305\nfelt like they were meeting guiding principles much better.\n\n306\n00:17:09,424 --> 00:17:09,604\nSo\n\n307\n00:17:10,545 --> 00:17:14,124\nbeginning with the first one, from a functional and operation standpoint,\n\n308\n00:17:14,764 --> 00:17:18,234\nthese projects were bringing everybody together and consolidating them\n\n309\n00:17:18,285 --> 00:17:18,805\naround\n\n310\n00:17:19,744 --> 00:17:22,384\nthe potential plaza area on Madison.\n\n311\n00:17:23,065 --> 00:17:26,545\nAnd that notion of synergies across\n\n312\n00:17:26,924 --> 00:17:30,504\ncity departments was seen as a positive, versus being\n\n313\n00:17:30,524 --> 00:17:34,044\ndistributed between the existing city hall, this\n\n314\n00:17:34,104 --> 00:17:34,564\nbuilding.\n\n315\n00:17:37,104 --> 00:17:37,284\nYeah.\n\n316\n00:17:37,404 --> 00:17:37,584\nYeah.\n\n317\n00:17:37,784 --> 00:17:37,974\nThanks.\n\n318\n00:17:38,044 --> 00:17:41,404\nThis was seen as a way to\n\n319\n00:17:42,964 --> 00:17:45,264\ncreate a higher degree of synergy and efficiency.\n\n320\n00:17:47,164 --> 00:17:48,064\nCarbon impact.\n\n321\n00:17:48,924 --> 00:17:50,644\nWe spent a lot of time talking about carbon.\n\n322\n00:17:51,724 --> 00:17:52,484\nWhen you are\n\n323\n00:17:53,504 --> 00:17:56,964\nevaluating carbon, you're looking at carbon from two perspectives.\n\n324\n00:17:57,164 --> 00:18:01,144\nOne is the embodied carbon, which from an architectural standpoint, it's what\n\n325\n00:18:01,204 --> 00:18:03,744\nit takes to make the building, to build the building.\n\n326\n00:18:04,364 --> 00:18:08,224\nAnd then you're talking about operational carbon, which is how much it takes to\n\n327\n00:18:09,224 --> 00:18:13,204\nrun the facility from an energy perspective.\n\n328\n00:18:13,284 --> 00:18:15,084\nThe carbon impact here was less\n\n329\n00:18:15,644 --> 00:18:19,252\nover-Largely because the embodied\n\n330\n00:18:19,332 --> 00:18:19,772\ncarbon\n\n331\n00:18:20,652 --> 00:18:24,051\nof the existing city hall was taken out of the equation.\n\n332\n00:18:25,812 --> 00:18:29,612\nThe two points I would have around that are that\n\n333\n00:18:30,132 --> 00:18:32,692\nthe facilities that we're proposing for\n\n334\n00:18:32,992 --> 00:18:36,772\nwould be as low carbon as we can\n\n335\n00:18:36,812 --> 00:18:40,172\npossibly make within the technology that we have now, which is\n\n336\n00:18:40,512 --> 00:18:44,392\nusing things like mass timber, looking at other systems to look\n\n337\n00:18:44,432 --> 00:18:46,331\nat decreasing the embodied carbon.\n\n338\n00:18:47,472 --> 00:18:50,232\nOr sorry, from the beginning of the construction.\n\n339\n00:18:51,292 --> 00:18:55,172\nThe operational carbon is about creating facilities that are incredibly\n\n340\n00:18:55,212 --> 00:18:55,852\nefficient.\n\n341\n00:18:57,332 --> 00:19:00,412\nI think Mary's going to share some graphs at the end of the presentation.\n\n342\n00:19:00,452 --> 00:19:03,652\nWe'll talk about the actual energies- ... at city hall.\n\n343\n00:19:04,212 --> 00:19:07,412\nAnd as an architect, I will tell you that it's staggering.\n\n344\n00:19:07,552 --> 00:19:09,272\nI haven't seen a figure like that before.\n\n345\n00:19:11,212 --> 00:19:12,732\nBut not to thunder,\n\n346\n00:19:13,752 --> 00:19:14,432\nit is impressive.\n\n347\n00:19:16,012 --> 00:19:17,432\nFrom a resiliency standpoint,\n\n348\n00:19:19,032 --> 00:19:20,992\nwe're looking at as much resilience as we can.\n\n349\n00:19:21,412 --> 00:19:25,232\nWhen you are doing a police station, you have to meet\n\n350\n00:19:25,312 --> 00:19:29,252\na seismic level or an earthquake resistance level of what's called Level 4.\n\n351\n00:19:30,032 --> 00:19:32,012\nThat means that in the event of an earthquake,\n\n352\n00:19:33,592 --> 00:19:36,712\neveryone leaves the building during the earthquake, and the police can go right\n\n353\n00:19:36,752 --> 00:19:39,252\nback in and continue operation because they need to.\n\n354\n00:19:40,792 --> 00:19:41,932\nWith the civic campus,\n\n355\n00:19:43,272 --> 00:19:46,192\nwe decided that we were going to aim for Level 3,\n\n356\n00:19:47,112 --> 00:19:50,752\nwhich enabled everyone to get out of the building safely, which is required by\n\n357\n00:19:50,832 --> 00:19:53,672\ncode. But the building is not a throwaway when you're done.\n\n358\n00:19:54,992 --> 00:19:58,852\nSo that your investment in facility right now is one\n\n359\n00:19:58,872 --> 00:20:02,632\nthat survives an earthquake, needs some repairs, but it's not we're\n\n360\n00:20:02,732 --> 00:20:04,572\nscraping the site kind of condition.\n\n361\n00:20:05,392 --> 00:20:09,172\nBy comparison, the current city hall has had seismic\n\n362\n00:20:09,232 --> 00:20:13,072\nupgrades, but it is to a Level 2, which means that everybody gets out\n\n363\n00:20:13,132 --> 00:20:16,732\nsafely, but the building is done. There's no repairing.\n\n364\n00:20:17,432 --> 00:20:20,292\nSo keeping that in mind in terms of the overall resilience.\n\n365\n00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:24,732\nAnd then resilience is not just about earthquake resistance, it's\n\n366\n00:20:24,852 --> 00:20:28,672\nalso about energy performance and the opportunities for solar\n\n367\n00:20:28,771 --> 00:20:31,012\npanels and battery systems and all of that.\n\n368\n00:20:31,392 --> 00:20:34,432\nThis system gave the most opportunity for that.\n\n369\n00:20:36,272 --> 00:20:40,152\nFinancial stewardship. There's a lot of ways to look at budget and\n\n370\n00:20:40,192 --> 00:20:44,132\nfinancial stewardship. We took the approach of this is a way to\n\n371\n00:20:44,192 --> 00:20:47,832\nmeet the goals that we had outlined for the least amount of long-term costs.\n\n372\n00:20:48,472 --> 00:20:52,392\nAnd so of the options that we were presenting, this option actually comes with\n\n373\n00:20:52,492 --> 00:20:52,772\nthis.\n\n374\n00:20:54,832 --> 00:20:58,652\nFrom an accessibility standpoint, when we initially started the\n\n375\n00:20:58,732 --> 00:21:01,472\nconcept design, looking at the\n\n376\n00:21:02,512 --> 00:21:05,962\ncivic campus in particular, the existing city hall has\n\n377\n00:21:06,012 --> 00:21:09,912\naccessibility challenges. It is designed in a very traditional manner, which means\n\n378\n00:21:09,932 --> 00:21:13,221\nthe first floor is, if I remember correctly, about seven feet up.\n\n379\n00:21:13,932 --> 00:21:17,672\nThat represents a pretty significant barrier for anybody who's in a wheelchair.\n\n380\n00:21:18,632 --> 00:21:22,572\nCurrently, I'm sure as you all know, if you're using a wheelchair to go\n\n381\n00:21:22,592 --> 00:21:26,312\ninto city hall, you have to go through the back door, find your way to an elevator,\n\n382\n00:21:26,492 --> 00:21:28,152\nand come up midway through the building.\n\n383\n00:21:29,032 --> 00:21:32,132\nIf city halls are intended to welcome every resident\n\n384\n00:21:32,992 --> 00:21:33,512\nin the most\n\n385\n00:21:34,672 --> 00:21:38,412\nthoughtful and compassionate, caring way, the existing building really\n\n386\n00:21:38,432 --> 00:21:38,932\ndoesn't.\n\n387\n00:21:40,392 --> 00:21:44,212\nIt's not to say that we didn't explore ways to solve that problem, but they came\n\n388\n00:21:44,292 --> 00:21:47,612\nat significant expense or didn't really meet the intent.\n\n389\n00:21:49,652 --> 00:21:53,602\nLastly, we talked about the potential community amenity that\n\n390\n00:21:53,652 --> 00:21:55,692\nthese projects could create.\n\n391\n00:21:56,612 --> 00:21:59,532\nAnd that's really about resident engagement.\n\n392\n00:22:00,322 --> 00:22:00,322\nRight.\n\n393\n00:22:00,352 --> 00:22:04,162\nAnd so the plaza existed in most of the options, and that's a\n\n394\n00:22:04,892 --> 00:22:08,792\nfantastic opportunity for civic events, and it goes a long\n\n395\n00:22:08,832 --> 00:22:12,432\nway towards bringing people downtown, which we'll talk about later when we talk\n\n396\n00:22:12,472 --> 00:22:15,972\nabout downtown vitality. But this option\n\n397\n00:22:16,072 --> 00:22:19,752\nallowed for the most potential public meeting\n\n398\n00:22:19,872 --> 00:22:21,972\nspace within the civic campus lot.\n\n399\n00:22:22,512 --> 00:22:25,872\nThe other options that we presented at the time were more about just\n\n400\n00:22:25,892 --> 00:22:29,592\nadministration or trying to have public meeting space\n\n401\n00:22:29,772 --> 00:22:33,732\nin the existing city hall only. Again, back to that notion of accessible.\n\n402\n00:22:37,232 --> 00:22:40,592\nGo ahead and move forward at that point, unless there's any comments on it.\n\n403\n00:22:44,992 --> 00:22:45,772\nOkay, so\n\n404\n00:22:46,692 --> 00:22:49,072\nwe're going to take a little bit of time with this graphic.\n\n405\n00:22:49,192 --> 00:22:52,812\nWe showed it to you back in November of 2024.\n\n406\n00:22:53,472 --> 00:22:57,232\nBut this represents pretty much the fundamental challenge in\n\n407\n00:22:57,272 --> 00:23:00,772\nterms of creating public facilities, or frankly, any\n\n408\n00:23:00,832 --> 00:23:02,872\nfacility from a time and construction standpoint.\n\n409\n00:23:04,012 --> 00:23:07,992\nSo what this graphic represents is the time scale\n\n410\n00:23:08,052 --> 00:23:11,692\nfrom left to right, beginning from 1980 to\n\n411\n00:23:11,972 --> 00:23:12,432\n2060.\n\n412\n00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:16,792\nAnd what it is here to show you is the cost or impact of\n\n413\n00:23:16,832 --> 00:23:20,792\nescalation, specifically construction escalation, over\n\n414\n00:23:20,852 --> 00:23:21,132\ntime.\n\n415\n00:23:22,952 --> 00:23:26,392\nSo we made a couple of modifications\n\n416\n00:23:26,452 --> 00:23:29,352\nto this diagram since we last showed it to you.\n\n417\n00:23:30,112 --> 00:23:32,732\nBefore I get to that, let me explain the diagram a little bit.\n\n418\n00:23:33,472 --> 00:23:37,352\nFrom the orange dot in the middle that represents today, moving backward\n\n419\n00:23:37,392 --> 00:23:40,232\nin time, the numbers that are provided are\n\n420\n00:23:41,472 --> 00:23:44,592\nusing what is called the Engineer News Record.\n\n421\n00:23:46,812 --> 00:23:49,052\nBasically, they track escalation over time.\n\n422\n00:23:49,112 --> 00:23:52,752\nSo it's the actual escalation for construction that has\n\n423\n00:23:52,792 --> 00:23:56,752\nhappened over that time. From the orange dot to\n\n424\n00:23:56,792 --> 00:24:00,742\nthe right, that represents 6% of escalation\n\n425\n00:24:00,832 --> 00:24:03,312\nper year, which is the current going rate.\n\n426\n00:24:03,572 --> 00:24:06,732\nWhen you talk to a contractor or a construction estimator,\n\n427\n00:24:07,922 --> 00:24:11,142\nthat's the number that they use when they're trying to figure out how much a\n\n428\n00:24:11,212 --> 00:24:13,332\nproject is going to cost in the future.\n\n429\n00:24:15,452 --> 00:24:19,432\nSo the change that we made is that when\n\n430\n00:24:19,452 --> 00:24:23,192\nwe first presented this to you, we didn't know which option council was going to\n\n431\n00:24:23,252 --> 00:24:26,692\nchoose. So we just picked a number, and it was 200 million, and that was\n\n432\n00:24:26,752 --> 00:24:30,682\nour-Baseline number to show how the escalation\n\n433\n00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:33,842\nis going to change. We've now changed the numbers to reflect\n\n434\n00:24:34,602 --> 00:24:37,182\nthe option that we chose and the cost of what that said.\n\n435\n00:24:38,692 --> 00:24:42,222\nThe other thing that we have done is that the\n\n436\n00:24:43,342 --> 00:24:45,802\nlarge blue dot in the middle that says 2027,\n\n437\n00:24:47,202 --> 00:24:48,682\nif we had started the project\n\n438\n00:24:49,782 --> 00:24:52,902\nDecember of 2024, the bid date for\n\n439\n00:24:53,002 --> 00:24:56,642\nconstruction would have been in 2027, and the cost of the\n\n440\n00:24:56,702 --> 00:24:57,382\nproject would have been\n\n441\n00:24:57,482 --> 00:25:01,342\n188. The\n\n442\n00:25:01,822 --> 00:25:05,802\norange dot next to it represents the escalation that's\n\n443\n00:25:05,842 --> 00:25:09,742\ngoing to happen for us to actually get the project if we started\n\n444\n00:25:09,942 --> 00:25:12,522\ntoday. And I want to pause here just for a second.\n\n445\n00:25:12,662 --> 00:25:16,582\nAnd Mark, we chose that 2029 number both from\n\n446\n00:25:16,622 --> 00:25:20,542\nwhat the design team and construction team needs, but also potential\n\n447\n00:25:20,622 --> 00:25:23,002\nfunding timeline. Is that correct?\n\n448\n00:25:23,342 --> 00:25:23,882\nThat's correct.\n\n449\n00:25:24,742 --> 00:25:24,882\nGreat.\n\n450\n00:25:24,962 --> 00:25:26,462\nSo can I just clarify?\n\n451\n00:25:27,222 --> 00:25:27,232\nYes, please.\n\n452\n00:25:27,242 --> 00:25:31,002\nThe 2029, when Ian says starting today, he doesn't mean\n\n453\n00:25:31,082 --> 00:25:32,202\nstarting construction today.\n\n454\n00:25:32,232 --> 00:25:32,232\nYeah.\n\n455\n00:25:32,242 --> 00:25:36,082\nHe means starting the process of full design to construction documents today.\n\n456\n00:25:36,142 --> 00:25:40,082\nYes. Thanks, Mary. So the giant orange dot in the middle that says\n\n457\n00:25:40,142 --> 00:25:43,802\ntoday is if we bid the project today, which of course we\n\n458\n00:25:43,862 --> 00:25:45,342\ncan't because we need time to design.\n\n459\n00:25:47,202 --> 00:25:50,662\nThe last thing I want to point out is the small three dots to the left\n\n460\n00:25:51,702 --> 00:25:54,802\nrepresent the past opportunities that the city has\n\n461\n00:25:54,882 --> 00:25:56,122\nhad to\n\n462\n00:25:57,022 --> 00:25:58,002\ndo facilities\n\n463\n00:25:59,802 --> 00:26:00,322\nmaster plans.\n\n464\n00:26:01,102 --> 00:26:02,842\nI bring this every meeting.\n\n465\n00:26:03,862 --> 00:26:07,282\nOther times, the city has stepped up to the line and stepped away.\n\n466\n00:26:08,142 --> 00:26:11,822\nAnd so considering the amount of money that you're considering\n\n467\n00:26:12,782 --> 00:26:16,402\nspending, that's how much that same money would've been back in\n\n468\n00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:18,442\n1988.\n\n469\n00:26:18,472 --> 00:26:18,472\n1988.\n\n470\n00:26:18,522 --> 00:26:19,542\nSorry.\n\n471\n00:26:19,552 --> 00:26:20,502\n2015.\n\n472\n00:26:20,512 --> 00:26:21,742\n2015.\n\n473\n00:26:23,742 --> 00:26:27,702\nThe last comment I'll make is that because escalation is moving\n\n474\n00:26:27,742 --> 00:26:30,952\nat 6% per year, that means 5% per month.\n\n475\n00:26:31,682 --> 00:26:35,362\nAnd so when you look at the lower orange dot for 2029, it's\n\n476\n00:26:35,662 --> 00:26:39,282\n1.05 million per month of escalation passed.\n\n477\n00:26:40,122 --> 00:26:40,762\nYou mean point.\n\n478\n00:26:40,922 --> 00:26:41,732\nYeah, point. 0.5.\n\n479\n00:26:42,102 --> 00:26:42,342\n0.5.\n\n480\n00:26:42,402 --> 00:26:42,422\nI\n\n481\n00:26:43,242 --> 00:26:44,162\nsaid 5%. Sorry.\n\n482\n00:26:44,482 --> 00:26:47,942\nThat would be very expensive.\n\n483\n00:26:48,102 --> 00:26:51,662\nMy fault. It's 0.5. But it still represents a really\n\n484\n00:26:51,722 --> 00:26:52,682\nsignificant number.\n\n485\n00:26:53,522 --> 00:26:54,322\nCan I ask a question-\n\n486\n00:26:54,502 --> 00:26:54,672\nYes, please\n\n487\n00:26:54,782 --> 00:26:56,202\n... before we move on from that?\n\n488\n00:26:57,472 --> 00:26:57,472\nYes.\n\n489\n00:26:58,002 --> 00:27:01,942\nDo you feel like the current environment will make that number\n\n490\n00:27:02,002 --> 00:27:05,992\nchange potentially? Or is this average over time through all these\n\n491\n00:27:06,022 --> 00:27:09,802\ndifferent things, and so it's not likely to change much, or what?\n\n492\n00:27:10,482 --> 00:27:11,342\nIt's a crystal ball.\n\n493\n00:27:11,562 --> 00:27:11,882\nYeah.\n\n494\n00:27:12,402 --> 00:27:16,202\nWhat I will tell you is that there was another graph that we didn't bring, I\n\n495\n00:27:16,242 --> 00:27:19,862\napologize, but it shows the arc of the escalation\n\n496\n00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:23,362\nfrom when the Engineering News-Record started calculating it from,\n\n497\n00:27:24,062 --> 00:27:27,702\nI'm going to get this wrong, it's either 1912 or 1915. Right?\n\n498\n00:27:28,162 --> 00:27:31,162\nAnd there's only two times that the number went negative.\n\n499\n00:27:31,722 --> 00:27:31,812\nMm-hmm.\n\n500\n00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:33,342\nOnce was the Great Recession\n\n501\n00:27:34,162 --> 00:27:35,262\nand once was the Great Depression.\n\n502\n00:27:35,362 --> 00:27:35,662\nMm-hmm.\n\n503\n00:27:36,102 --> 00:27:40,062\nAs much as you want negative escalation for your project, there\n\n504\n00:27:40,072 --> 00:27:40,992\nare other consequences-\n\n505\n00:27:41,102 --> 00:27:41,322\nSure\n\n506\n00:27:41,502 --> 00:27:42,342\n... on those scenarios.\n\n507\n00:27:44,582 --> 00:27:46,922\nWe're in a moment of\n\n508\n00:27:47,742 --> 00:27:51,182\nhigh volatility, right? And so I\n\n509\n00:27:51,382 --> 00:27:52,042\nthink that\n\n510\n00:27:52,942 --> 00:27:56,622\nwe're holding at 6%, but you can hit a\n\n511\n00:27:56,682 --> 00:28:00,322\npocket of time relative to the market where you have spikes.\n\n512\n00:28:00,482 --> 00:28:00,762\nOkay.\n\n513\n00:28:00,802 --> 00:28:03,462\nA good example is the last five weeks or so,\n\n514\n00:28:04,362 --> 00:28:06,922\nwith the energy volatility that we've had.\n\n515\n00:28:07,002 --> 00:28:08,162\nThat's kind of what I was getting at.\n\n516\n00:28:08,222 --> 00:28:08,462\nYes.\n\n517\n00:28:08,522 --> 00:28:08,682\nYeah.\n\n518\n00:28:08,742 --> 00:28:10,602\nRight. So there's always risk.\n\n519\n00:28:10,782 --> 00:28:11,222\nOkay.\n\n520\n00:28:11,702 --> 00:28:14,762\nThe fundamental rule is it never goes down.\n\n521\n00:28:15,442 --> 00:28:18,022\nIt may flat line a little bit, but it doesn't go down.\n\n522\n00:28:18,102 --> 00:28:18,362\nOkay.\n\n523\n00:28:19,262 --> 00:28:19,402\nOkay.\n\n524\n00:28:20,362 --> 00:28:24,162\nI want to pause for questions here because I think this is central to\n\n525\n00:28:24,882 --> 00:28:27,362\na lot of the scenarios that we're talking about.\n\n526\n00:28:28,102 --> 00:28:31,922\nIs there anything unclear about this overall idea about the escalation?\n\n527\n00:28:33,602 --> 00:28:36,842\nYeah. Ian, just a quick question. The diagram you showed had\n\n528\n00:28:37,862 --> 00:28:41,602\ncivic campus on the south side and police on the north, and we\n\n529\n00:28:41,722 --> 00:28:43,322\ntalked about flipping that.\n\n530\n00:28:43,362 --> 00:28:43,552\nMm-hmm.\n\n531\n00:28:43,822 --> 00:28:46,842\nI suspect that does not materially affect the cost.\n\n532\n00:28:46,962 --> 00:28:50,082\nBut is that a bad assumption or an okay one?\n\n533\n00:28:50,342 --> 00:28:51,612\nNo, I think that's an okay assumption.\n\n534\n00:28:51,612 --> 00:28:51,922\nOkay.\n\n535\n00:28:53,202 --> 00:28:53,482\nI\n\n536\n00:28:54,442 --> 00:28:57,962\nwill get to some benefits. I guess it doesn't matter.\n\n537\n00:28:58,102 --> 00:28:58,681\nYou sure?\n\n538\n00:28:58,882 --> 00:28:59,562\nYeah. Thank you.\n\n539\n00:29:00,022 --> 00:29:01,582\nOkay.\n\n540\n00:29:02,302 --> 00:29:05,942\nYeah, the original plan that was presented to us was the other way around, and the\n\n541\n00:29:06,002 --> 00:29:09,282\ncouncil said would it make more sense to have city hall on the south side for, I\n\n542\n00:29:09,382 --> 00:29:10,132\nthink, for sun and\n\n543\n00:29:10,982 --> 00:29:11,422\nenergy.\n\n544\n00:29:11,432 --> 00:29:15,342\nFor sun and one of the options included a future\n\n545\n00:29:15,542 --> 00:29:18,022\nparking garage, which we didn't go with.\n\n546\n00:29:18,822 --> 00:29:20,382\nBut that was part of the rationale.\n\n547\n00:29:20,522 --> 00:29:20,822\nOkay.\n\n548\n00:29:21,022 --> 00:29:23,922\nMm-hmm. Other thoughts or questions? Yeah.\n\n549\n00:29:25,342 --> 00:29:28,982\nThe thing not shown on this slide is the change in our\n\n550\n00:29:29,022 --> 00:29:30,622\nability to pay for these things.\n\n551\n00:29:30,642 --> 00:29:30,922\nSure.\n\n552\n00:29:31,582 --> 00:29:31,652\nI'm\n\n553\n00:29:32,502 --> 00:29:34,482\nwell aware of the fact that revenue\n\n554\n00:29:34,502 --> 00:29:38,482\nhasn't gone up 6% a\n\n555\n00:29:38,522 --> 00:29:39,082\nyear or so.\n\n556\n00:29:39,562 --> 00:29:39,772\nRight.\n\n557\n00:29:39,822 --> 00:29:42,322\nIt's separating farther.\n\n558\n00:29:42,532 --> 00:29:42,532\nYeah.\n\n559\n00:29:42,542 --> 00:29:46,262\nBut still, that's also not shown, and so that creates\n\n560\n00:29:46,302 --> 00:29:47,462\nanother factor-\n\n561\n00:29:47,622 --> 00:29:47,902\nYes\n\n562\n00:29:47,922 --> 00:29:49,862\n... and it happens over time.\n\n563\n00:29:50,262 --> 00:29:53,632\nYeah. And there's another point, and I'll bring it up later, is\n\n564\n00:29:53,722 --> 00:29:56,672\nthat if the construction escalation is at\n\n565\n00:29:56,902 --> 00:29:58,702\n6% average,\n\n566\n00:29:59,742 --> 00:30:03,442\nconsumer price index is only at 2.8 or between three and\n\n567\n00:30:03,502 --> 00:30:07,462\nfour normally. So public perception of what something\n\n568\n00:30:07,482 --> 00:30:11,202\nshould cost is out of whack because the escalation is\n\n569\n00:30:11,242 --> 00:30:12,362\nmoving at double the rate.\n\n570\n00:30:13,142 --> 00:30:13,782\nFor construction.\n\n571\n00:30:13,802 --> 00:30:14,642\nFor construction.\n\n572\n00:30:14,862 --> 00:30:15,042\nYeah.\n\n573\n00:30:15,222 --> 00:30:18,722\nAnd so when you talk about talking to the community about funding,\n\n574\n00:30:20,642 --> 00:30:24,602\ninherently everyone thinks that construction costs way too much because it\n\n575\n00:30:24,642 --> 00:30:27,822\ndoesn't match their day-to-day inflation over time.\n\n576\n00:30:28,662 --> 00:30:30,412\nSo I'll bring that up\n\n577\n00:30:30,462 --> 00:30:34,286\nagain.Okay. I'm going to go ahead and move\n\n578\n00:30:34,326 --> 00:30:36,746\nforward. We can come back to this diagram if it's helpful.\n\n579\n00:30:38,946 --> 00:30:42,206\nOkay. So we have a series of implementation strategies.\n\n580\n00:30:44,226 --> 00:30:45,666\nAnd we're going to start with\n\n581\n00:30:46,826 --> 00:30:50,346\nthe common impacts of the whole vision being\n\n582\n00:30:50,426 --> 00:30:54,266\nfinished. And that is both the civic campus\n\n583\n00:30:54,286 --> 00:30:57,686\nand the police station have been built on Madison with a plaza.\n\n584\n00:30:59,406 --> 00:31:03,006\nAnd so when that is complete, whenever,\n\n585\n00:31:03,046 --> 00:31:04,886\nwhatever sort of sequence that happens,\n\n586\n00:31:06,106 --> 00:31:09,806\nwe've established the 100-year Madison Avenue vision to move a central civic hub\n\n587\n00:31:09,846 --> 00:31:13,446\ndowntown. For those of you who don't know, it has been a 100-year\n\n588\n00:31:13,486 --> 00:31:17,406\nvision to make Madison a major pedestrian thoroughfare\n\n589\n00:31:17,526 --> 00:31:20,966\nfrom the gates of campus down to the river, and that the\n\n590\n00:31:21,606 --> 00:31:24,486\ncivic heart of the city is located at the Mocade Lawn.\n\n591\n00:31:25,266 --> 00:31:29,186\nAnd it's been in different spots, depending on which version of that plan has\n\n592\n00:31:29,226 --> 00:31:32,766\nexisted, but this actually puts it square\n\n593\n00:31:33,286 --> 00:31:36,986\non Madison. It also puts it at the gateway position to downtown.\n\n594\n00:31:37,486 --> 00:31:41,086\nSo if someone's coming from campus to the river, the first thing that they hit when\n\n595\n00:31:41,126 --> 00:31:43,896\nthey get to downtown is a civic idea.\n\n596\n00:31:46,446 --> 00:31:50,406\nThe next is that the project contributes to downtown vitality, the daily activity\n\n597\n00:31:50,446 --> 00:31:52,506\nfrom employees, visitors, and civic functions.\n\n598\n00:31:52,986 --> 00:31:55,986\nWhen we talk about civic functions, you have residents who are coming to this\n\n599\n00:31:56,026 --> 00:31:59,646\nfacility both to seek services, but also to use\n\n600\n00:32:01,006 --> 00:32:04,846\nthe further down point of gathering spaces and\n\n601\n00:32:04,886 --> 00:32:05,986\nattending civic events.\n\n602\n00:32:07,966 --> 00:32:11,486\nWe maintain public safety and city administration at the center of the community.\n\n603\n00:32:12,086 --> 00:32:15,026\nWe haven't relocated to some other location.\n\n604\n00:32:15,186 --> 00:32:19,046\nOther communities have found cheaper land outside of city limits, or not\n\n605\n00:32:19,106 --> 00:32:21,666\noutside city limits, but outside downtown cores.\n\n606\n00:32:22,086 --> 00:32:24,706\nThis keeps it as sort of vital to downtown.\n\n607\n00:32:26,226 --> 00:32:30,166\nWe've created opportunities for public gathering space and civic events in the\n\n608\n00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:34,166\ndowntown core, which again, brings people here, who then when they finish\n\n609\n00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:37,846\nwith that, they go shopping. They go down, grab a bite to eat, grab a cup of\n\n610\n00:32:37,866 --> 00:32:38,006\ncoffee.\n\n611\n00:32:40,346 --> 00:32:44,326\nOne thing that has happened between when we last spoke and now\n\n612\n00:32:44,486 --> 00:32:48,286\nis that you've had the Downtown Vitality Strategic Task\n\n613\n00:32:48,346 --> 00:32:52,246\nForce, and they have been looking at what the opportunities are\n\n614\n00:32:52,326 --> 00:32:56,206\nto bring more vitality to downtown, and I think that's\n\n615\n00:32:56,406 --> 00:32:59,746\nsomewhat timely because I believe these goals were just presented to you recently.\n\n616\n00:33:01,906 --> 00:33:05,626\nWe've sort of gone back and looked at those and seen how these projects sort of\n\n617\n00:33:06,046 --> 00:33:06,906\nplug into that.\n\n618\n00:33:09,446 --> 00:33:13,376\nThey plug in directly because some of the goals are, \"Hey, let's do the\n\n619\n00:33:13,426 --> 00:33:15,866\ncivic campus downtown, let's do the police station downtown.\"\n\n620\n00:33:16,926 --> 00:33:20,426\nBut there are some that are less tangential or sorry, more tangential than\n\n621\n00:33:20,486 --> 00:33:21,026\nothers.\n\n622\n00:33:23,066 --> 00:33:26,326\nThere's a desire for an economic boost, right?\n\n623\n00:33:26,506 --> 00:33:27,426\nKeeping the\n\n624\n00:33:28,886 --> 00:33:32,846\nstaff downtown to be able to support businesses during lunch hours and things\n\n625\n00:33:32,866 --> 00:33:36,406\nlike that, both for city hall staff and also\n\n626\n00:33:36,466 --> 00:33:39,946\nfor the police. That's a direct economic\n\n627\n00:33:40,566 --> 00:33:40,576\nboost.\n\n628\n00:33:41,446 --> 00:33:45,036\nAlso when there are community events, that you're bringing more people\n\n629\n00:33:45,226 --> 00:33:46,646\ndowntown, it's the same thing.\n\n630\n00:33:48,366 --> 00:33:52,286\nOn that topic of economic boost, one of the other goals within the task\n\n631\n00:33:52,366 --> 00:33:53,306\nforce is housing.\n\n632\n00:33:54,306 --> 00:33:57,486\nMost housing, if not all housing, even\n\n633\n00:33:57,986 --> 00:34:01,846\naffordable housing, is still driven primarily by private development.\n\n634\n00:34:02,566 --> 00:34:06,006\nPrivate development is looking for spaces that are vital,\n\n635\n00:34:06,886 --> 00:34:08,917\nthe old adage of location, location, location-\n\n636\n00:34:09,026 --> 00:34:09,187\nMm.\n\n637\n00:34:09,406 --> 00:34:11,756\nBecause it helps them keep their vacancy rates down.\n\n638\n00:34:12,426 --> 00:34:16,326\nSo the more active downtown can be and more desirable to live, the more\n\n639\n00:34:16,366 --> 00:34:18,846\nlikely you can encourage that investment to house.\n\n640\n00:34:20,426 --> 00:34:23,946\nA lot of the downtown goals also focus\n\n641\n00:34:24,086 --> 00:34:28,026\non quality of street experience. What happens with the infrastructure, how do\n\n642\n00:34:28,046 --> 00:34:31,946\nwe improve the sidewalks, the curbs, lighting, all the things that go\n\n643\n00:34:32,006 --> 00:34:32,826\nalong the street scene.\n\n644\n00:34:34,266 --> 00:34:38,167\nThe opportunity to do the plaza first and set the standard\n\n645\n00:34:38,226 --> 00:34:41,955\nthat the rest of the street might follow, I think is a pretty\n\n646\n00:34:42,406 --> 00:34:44,366\ngreat opportunity.\n\n647\n00:34:45,586 --> 00:34:47,566\nThe notion of social infrastructure.\n\n648\n00:34:49,365 --> 00:34:52,026\nIf anyone was able to go to the\n\n649\n00:34:52,226 --> 00:34:55,326\n2022 League of Oregon Cities keynote,\n\n650\n00:34:56,306 --> 00:34:59,446\nEric Klinenberg, who is the author of \"Palaces for the People.\"\n\n651\n00:34:59,566 --> 00:34:59,846\nMm.\n\n652\n00:35:00,486 --> 00:35:01,966\nHe talks a lot about-\n\n653\n00:35:02,146 --> 00:35:03,126\nOne of my favorite books.\n\n654\n00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,226\nAbsolutely. It's great.\n\n655\n00:35:05,266 --> 00:35:06,746\nHe talks a lot about\n\n656\n00:35:07,726 --> 00:35:11,126\nhow we are slowly losing what we call social infrastructure,\n\n657\n00:35:11,706 --> 00:35:15,296\nand it's really what we call third spaces. Mark, you and I have talked about that.\n\n658\n00:35:15,366 --> 00:35:18,426\nIt's the spaces that people can interact where they don't have to spend a dime,\n\n659\n00:35:19,106 --> 00:35:21,506\nright? Libraries are one of the last examples of that.\n\n660\n00:35:24,386 --> 00:35:28,246\nHe makes a case in his book and in the keynote that he gave, that not\n\n661\n00:35:28,306 --> 00:35:31,875\nonly are those things nice to have for a community, they're actually\n\n662\n00:35:31,926 --> 00:35:35,046\ninherently needed within social\n\n663\n00:35:35,086 --> 00:35:38,726\nresilience. So the example that the book starts out with is, as\n\n664\n00:35:39,206 --> 00:35:42,616\nCarolyn would probably know, is when there is\n\n665\n00:35:43,246 --> 00:35:44,266\na community crisis,\n\n666\n00:35:45,086 --> 00:35:49,006\nthe communities that do the best are when the neighbors go next door and knock on\n\n667\n00:35:49,026 --> 00:35:51,226\nit and make sure that that person's okay.\n\n668\n00:35:51,866 --> 00:35:55,136\nWe need more opportunities for people to interact, to build relationships,\n\n669\n00:35:55,706 --> 00:35:58,646\nand that fosters a stronger, more resilient community.\n\n670\n00:35:59,546 --> 00:36:03,166\nPlaying back to our project, notion of the plaza,\n\n671\n00:36:03,366 --> 00:36:06,946\nnotion of the public meeting spaces within City Hall, those are\n\n672\n00:36:07,026 --> 00:36:10,026\nin direct support of that idea.\n\n673\n00:36:11,566 --> 00:36:15,316\nLastly, sustainability, and it dovetails with the final bullet on the slide,\n\n674\n00:36:16,086 --> 00:36:16,496\nis that\n\n675\n00:36:17,526 --> 00:36:21,046\nthe goal for sustainable development downtown, the city has the\n\n676\n00:36:21,106 --> 00:36:24,606\nopportunity to set the standard with what those projects can be,\n\n677\n00:36:25,046 --> 00:36:28,896\nboth in terms of quality, energy efficiency, opportunities\n\n678\n00:36:28,946 --> 00:36:29,866\nfor solar panels,\n\n679\n00:36:31,846 --> 00:36:32,246\nand\n\n680\n00:36:33,126 --> 00:36:36,646\njust reinforcing that message to private development that may happen in\n\n681\n00:36:36,686 --> 00:36:43,216\ndowntownSo\n\n682\n00:36:43,276 --> 00:36:47,236\nif those are common to the end result, these are common to\n\n683\n00:36:47,276 --> 00:36:50,766\nwhat the implementation looks like, and if there\n\n684\n00:36:50,856 --> 00:36:53,796\nare delays in time, because that's really what we're\n\n685\n00:36:54,596 --> 00:36:58,196\nfocusing on. So as I mentioned before, we have construction cost\n\n686\n00:36:58,256 --> 00:37:01,756\nescalation calculated at 6% per year or\n\n687\n00:37:01,796 --> 00:37:02,776\n0.5 per\n\n688\n00:37:03,676 --> 00:37:03,976\nmonth.\n\n689\n00:37:05,636 --> 00:37:09,336\nTo get an apples to apples comparisons along these strategies,\n\n690\n00:37:09,516 --> 00:37:13,216\nwe've used a time scale of eight years between projects if we\n\n691\n00:37:13,316 --> 00:37:13,716\nphase.\n\n692\n00:37:14,716 --> 00:37:16,536\nAnd we've done that for a couple of reasons.\n\n693\n00:37:17,116 --> 00:37:17,396\nOne,\n\n694\n00:37:19,676 --> 00:37:20,516\nmake sure I get this right.\n\n695\n00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:25,636\nYou're probably not going to start the second project until\n\n696\n00:37:25,696 --> 00:37:29,536\nyou've completed the first. So that's at minimum, that's three years there.\n\n697\n00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:33,856\nYou're likely probably going to have another funding conversation once you've\n\n698\n00:37:33,896 --> 00:37:36,836\ndone that. And so that's another year or two.\n\n699\n00:37:37,296 --> 00:37:41,196\nAnd so all of a sudden you're five to 10 in your\n\n700\n00:37:41,216 --> 00:37:42,946\npotential delay. And\n\n701\n00:37:44,296 --> 00:37:46,126\nit's an arbitrary number to a certain degree.\n\n702\n00:37:46,256 --> 00:37:49,776\nCouncil can decide to do whatever they want, but for the purposes of this\n\n703\n00:37:49,816 --> 00:37:53,096\nevaluation, that's what we've used across the scale.\n\n704\n00:37:55,576 --> 00:37:59,086\nDepending on how long you delay, there are other\n\n705\n00:37:59,096 --> 00:38:01,596\nfactors that can jeopardize final implementation.\n\n706\n00:38:03,296 --> 00:38:05,546\nLong delays can overlap council elections,\n\n707\n00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:10,476\nright? You have an opportunity to work together, to get these projects\n\n708\n00:38:10,496 --> 00:38:11,336\ndone.\n\n709\n00:38:12,336 --> 00:38:15,996\nIt's not to say that a future council won't have similar objectives,\n\n710\n00:38:16,476 --> 00:38:20,376\nbut it's a shift, it's a change, and it's ultimately a\n\n711\n00:38:20,396 --> 00:38:22,996\nrisk to whether something gets fully implemented or not.\n\n712\n00:38:24,796 --> 00:38:28,336\nMultiple funding asks can lead to voter fatigue depending on what the\n\n713\n00:38:28,376 --> 00:38:32,156\nfunding solutions are. The more times that you go\n\n714\n00:38:32,256 --> 00:38:35,856\nback, the more difficult the conversation can become.\n\n715\n00:38:36,236 --> 00:38:39,396\nAnd I'll talk a little bit about that to get deeper into it.\n\n716\n00:38:41,776 --> 00:38:45,296\nIn any of these options, City Hall staff need to relocate\n\n717\n00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:50,076\nbecause fundamentally City Hall is being removed in the\n\n718\n00:38:50,136 --> 00:38:53,906\noptions, and so City Hall staff has to go someplace while that's\n\n719\n00:38:53,996 --> 00:38:55,676\nhappening. The cost and\n\n720\n00:38:57,356 --> 00:39:00,656\nduration of the relocation is impacted by which option you choose.\n\n721\n00:39:02,776 --> 00:39:05,136\nIn any option where the police station is delayed,\n\n722\n00:39:05,976 --> 00:39:08,696\nresilient temporary facilities need to be created.\n\n723\n00:39:09,376 --> 00:39:13,076\nLaw enforcement building is in really dire straits, and so\n\n724\n00:39:13,296 --> 00:39:16,936\nmoving the police to a temporary facility has\n\n725\n00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,476\npretty significant cost implications because a\n\n726\n00:39:20,536 --> 00:39:24,356\ntemporary construction for police requires a lot more\n\n727\n00:39:24,416 --> 00:39:28,326\ntechnical construction. They have things like holding cells and evidence\n\n728\n00:39:28,396 --> 00:39:31,516\nmanagement that just is more expensive to build.\n\n729\n00:39:34,016 --> 00:39:37,996\nLastly, over time, building and regulatory code changes\n\n730\n00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,636\ncan occur, which can drive costs that you can't\n\n731\n00:39:40,696 --> 00:39:42,376\nanticipate.\n\n732\n00:39:49,456 --> 00:39:53,056\nWhen we were evaluating if both projects are moving\n\n733\n00:39:53,076 --> 00:39:56,596\ntogether or they stagger, we've gone and talked to\n\n734\n00:39:56,816 --> 00:40:00,116\ncontractors to understand what the impacts and\n\n735\n00:40:00,196 --> 00:40:03,776\nefficiencies might be for the benefits going\n\n736\n00:40:03,916 --> 00:40:05,936\ntogether or independently.\n\n737\n00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:11,356\nSo if projects move together, a single project has less startup\n\n738\n00:40:11,416 --> 00:40:13,116\nmobilization and shutdown costs.\n\n739\n00:40:13,276 --> 00:40:16,336\nWhat that means is every time a project starts up, they need to bring in the job\n\n740\n00:40:16,396 --> 00:40:18,076\ntrailer, they need to get crews on board.\n\n741\n00:40:19,116 --> 00:40:22,896\nThere are costs inherent to that. And they're\n\n742\n00:40:22,906 --> 00:40:26,376\nnot insignificant, but they're worth sort of mentioning.\n\n743\n00:40:28,196 --> 00:40:30,356\nLarger projects have a greater economy of scale.\n\n744\n00:40:30,936 --> 00:40:34,716\nYou get greater efficiencies over a larger project than if you have smaller\n\n745\n00:40:34,796 --> 00:40:35,516\nor two smaller.\n\n746\n00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:41,096\nThe process of procuring, managing\n\n747\n00:40:41,396 --> 00:40:45,266\nsubcontractors on a job, if you only have to do it once, it's easier.\n\n748\n00:40:45,316 --> 00:40:49,096\nIf you have a bigger project, you can move and stagger workflows around.\n\n749\n00:40:50,556 --> 00:40:54,116\nA single project has greater efficiency, general contractor supervision,\n\n750\n00:40:54,416 --> 00:40:55,816\ntemporary safety and security.\n\n751\n00:40:56,896 --> 00:40:59,696\nThese are the day-to-day management of\n\n752\n00:40:59,736 --> 00:41:03,576\nrelative to security, onsite management,\n\n753\n00:41:04,335 --> 00:41:08,156\nI should say, because they're ability to share equipment, material staging.\n\n754\n00:41:08,776 --> 00:41:12,486\nMaterial staging particular is one on an urban site we have to be pretty\n\n755\n00:41:12,536 --> 00:41:13,736\nthoughtful about.\n\n756\n00:41:15,476 --> 00:41:18,906\nAvoid duplicate costs for tapping utilities and doing street right of way work.\n\n757\n00:41:19,316 --> 00:41:23,026\nIf you've completed one project and you've connected to the water main, and all of\n\n758\n00:41:23,056 --> 00:41:25,746\na sudden you start the next one, you've got to go dig up the sidewalk and do it\n\n759\n00:41:25,776 --> 00:41:26,076\nagain.\n\n760\n00:41:27,676 --> 00:41:31,516\nAnd then lastly, there's only one disruption to the downtown\n\n761\n00:41:31,556 --> 00:41:35,436\nneighborhood. Projects of these scales are going to impact traffic in\n\n762\n00:41:35,476 --> 00:41:36,016\nthe area,\n\n763\n00:41:37,436 --> 00:41:41,156\nand contractors are really great about managing noise, but there is\n\n764\n00:41:41,176 --> 00:41:42,216\ndisruption overall.\n\n765\n00:41:46,236 --> 00:41:50,016\nOkay, so we have four implementation strategies, and I'm going to\n\n766\n00:41:50,056 --> 00:41:52,516\nwalk through the pros and cons of each.\n\n767\n00:41:53,276 --> 00:41:54,696\nAnd then at the bottom is\n\n768\n00:41:56,176 --> 00:41:57,295\ntotal cost.\n\n769\n00:41:58,976 --> 00:41:59,236\nSo\n\n770\n00:42:00,116 --> 00:42:02,796\nin the case where we move both projects together,\n\n771\n00:42:04,276 --> 00:42:07,636\nCivic Campus staff return after a short-term lease.\n\n772\n00:42:08,256 --> 00:42:10,416\nThey're out of downtown for the least amount of time.\n\n773\n00:42:11,096 --> 00:42:14,536\nPolice are able to remain in the law enforcement building while construction is\n\n774\n00:42:14,596 --> 00:42:15,256\ncompleted.\n\n775\n00:42:17,076 --> 00:42:21,056\nYou address the two aging facilities simultaneously, reducing the\n\n776\n00:42:21,096 --> 00:42:24,476\nlong-term facility risk of various issues.\n\n777\n00:42:25,356 --> 00:42:28,846\nAllows shared infrastructure site development efficiencies, as we were just talking\n\n778\n00:42:28,916 --> 00:42:30,156\nabout, between the two projects.\n\n779\n00:42:31,956 --> 00:42:35,436\nImmediately implements downtown vitality task force goals.\n\n780\n00:42:35,896 --> 00:42:39,316\nThe things that have been just brought to you can come to fruition much\n\n781\n00:42:39,576 --> 00:42:41,836\nquicker and support downtown faster.\n\n782\n00:42:43,536 --> 00:42:47,296\nAvoids future construction escalation, which is the topic we were just\n\n783\n00:42:47,336 --> 00:42:47,976\ntalking about.\n\n784\n00:42:49,836 --> 00:42:52,236\nAllows for a new approach to underground parking garage.\n\n785\n00:42:52,296 --> 00:42:53,956\nI'll get to that in a second.\n\n786\n00:42:54,956 --> 00:42:57,676\nAnd then this is the least total cost to implement.\n\n787\n00:42:58,076 --> 00:43:01,936\nIf you look at the full picture of council vision, this is\n\n788\n00:43:01,996 --> 00:43:04,396\nthe most cost-effective way to get it done.\n\n789\n00:43:06,076 --> 00:43:09,696\nThe con here is that it is the highest initial\n\n790\n00:43:09,756 --> 00:43:10,616\ncapital cost.\n\n791\n00:43:15,156 --> 00:43:17,276\nSo parking. I mentioned here,\n\n792\n00:43:17,456 --> 00:43:21,276\nallows for new\n\n793\n00:43:21,296 --> 00:43:22,356\napproach to underground parking.\n\n794\n00:43:23,596 --> 00:43:26,456\nSo initially, when we brought this vision to\n\n795\n00:43:27,356 --> 00:43:27,756\ncouncil,\n\n796\n00:43:28,576 --> 00:43:31,896\nbecause we were designing a public safety building, the biggest challenge to public\n\n797\n00:43:31,956 --> 00:43:35,536\nsafety is they have a lot of vehicles, and they have to find a place to put them.\n\n798\n00:43:37,136 --> 00:43:41,036\nIt can take significant amount of acreage, as John and I both know from working on\n\n799\n00:43:41,076 --> 00:43:44,556\nlots of public safety buildings, to accommodate their fleets.\n\n800\n00:43:45,096 --> 00:43:48,996\nAnd so when we designed the public safety building, initially, we ended up going\n\n801\n00:43:49,036 --> 00:43:52,616\ntwo and a half to three floors below grade\n\n802\n00:43:53,076 --> 00:43:54,576\nto create below grade parkings.\n\n803\n00:43:56,116 --> 00:43:59,836\nThat's not the most expensive effort\n\n804\n00:44:00,316 --> 00:44:03,776\noverall, and given how tight these sites are,\n\n805\n00:44:04,236 --> 00:44:05,316\nit's pretty inefficient.\n\n806\n00:44:06,176 --> 00:44:09,816\nOnce you start to ramp down and try to get multiple ramps going down, you eat up a\n\n807\n00:44:09,896 --> 00:44:13,576\nlot of that square footage. When we realized that we\n\n808\n00:44:14,016 --> 00:44:17,876\ncould potentially have both projects moving in at once, the opportunity is to\n\n809\n00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:19,006\ndo a larger,\n\n810\n00:44:20,236 --> 00:44:23,616\nshallower parking structure that goes all the way underneath Madison\n\n811\n00:44:23,656 --> 00:44:25,976\nAvenue and ties Civic Campus together.\n\n812\n00:44:27,696 --> 00:44:29,776\nYou wouldn't do this type of approach piece.\n\n813\n00:44:30,516 --> 00:44:33,976\nIt would cause a level of complexity that would just drive costs up.\n\n814\n00:44:34,456 --> 00:44:38,036\nAnd so the benefit here is that you likely have enough\n\n815\n00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:41,956\nspace for the secure parking needs of public safety\n\n816\n00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:42,436\nfolks.\n\n817\n00:44:43,276 --> 00:44:47,216\nWe also have the potential for additional parking that is outside of that secure\n\n818\n00:44:47,336 --> 00:44:50,936\nzone that could be separate. Whether that's for staff, for the public,\n\n819\n00:44:51,296 --> 00:44:51,836\nthat's all for\n\n820\n00:44:53,376 --> 00:44:54,156\nyou to determine.\n\n821\n00:44:55,656 --> 00:44:58,496\nBut of this implementation option one,\n\n822\n00:44:59,336 --> 00:45:01,816\nwe can sort of potentially pull off this scenario.\n\n823\n00:45:05,976 --> 00:45:07,796\nAnd so, this is\n\n824\n00:45:08,816 --> 00:45:10,056\nbasically what that looks like\n\n825\n00:45:11,196 --> 00:45:14,826\nafter everything's done at once, and this is what you get.\n\n826\n00:45:15,536 --> 00:45:16,976\nNow, a couple of caveats here.\n\n827\n00:45:18,756 --> 00:45:20,296\nThis is not what the buildings will look like.\n\n828\n00:45:21,176 --> 00:45:23,986\nWe haven't designed them yet. Any\n\n829\n00:45:25,696 --> 00:45:29,636\ndesign of a public building, once the project moves forward, we work really\n\n830\n00:45:29,716 --> 00:45:33,165\nhard to do community engagement, to engage the community in how these buildings\n\n831\n00:45:33,216 --> 00:45:34,236\nshould look and feel.\n\n832\n00:45:35,556 --> 00:45:39,516\nSo we needed to provide an idea or a vision to council and\n\n833\n00:45:39,556 --> 00:45:41,316\nthe public just to get a sense of something.\n\n834\n00:45:41,996 --> 00:45:45,516\nSo if you don't like the window pattern, it's okay.\n\n835\n00:45:45,556 --> 00:45:47,196\nIt's not going to be this at the end of the day.\n\n836\n00:45:48,736 --> 00:45:52,656\nBut what you do see here is that potential for these\n\n837\n00:45:52,716 --> 00:45:56,396\ntwo projects working together with the plaza space in between\n\n838\n00:45:56,976 --> 00:45:59,716\nand that further connection on Madison.\n\n839\n00:45:59,756 --> 00:46:03,566\nThis is looking down towards the river and the OB development that's\n\n840\n00:46:03,616 --> 00:46:04,476\nunderway right now.\n\n841\n00:46:10,336 --> 00:46:12,456\nSo implementation strategy number two\n\n842\n00:46:13,276 --> 00:46:17,116\nsays if you build the public station first, and you delay the Civic\n\n843\n00:46:17,136 --> 00:46:21,116\nCampus. And again, we're talking of a delay just for the point of numbers of\n\n844\n00:46:21,156 --> 00:46:21,626\neight.\n\n845\n00:46:22,656 --> 00:46:26,476\nWhatever council decides at that point is up to you, but eight\n\n846\n00:46:26,496 --> 00:46:28,236\nyears is the benchmark that we're doing this.\n\n847\n00:46:28,776 --> 00:46:29,156\nThat's it.\n\n848\n00:46:29,376 --> 00:46:33,156\nSo the benefits here is that you've dealt with the public safety building first,\n\n849\n00:46:33,256 --> 00:46:36,356\nwhich is pretty critical relative to operational\n\n850\n00:46:36,436 --> 00:46:40,126\neffectiveness for them and resilience for police services.\n\n851\n00:46:41,516 --> 00:46:44,836\nYou have a lower initial capital investment because you're only building one of the\n\n852\n00:46:44,876 --> 00:46:45,306\nbuildings.\n\n853\n00:46:47,076 --> 00:46:49,506\nYou maintain at least one civic anchor while you're\n\n854\n00:46:50,456 --> 00:46:52,056\ngetting these facility needs solved.\n\n855\n00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:57,076\nIt allows the city to phase the major capital investments over time\n\n856\n00:46:57,936 --> 00:47:01,836\nand improves emergency resilience through getting the 911 facility\n\n857\n00:47:01,896 --> 00:47:04,256\ninto a new building sooner.\n\n858\n00:47:06,456 --> 00:47:10,195\nThe cons are is that your civic vision is only half\n\n859\n00:47:10,236 --> 00:47:10,816\nrealized.\n\n860\n00:47:12,996 --> 00:47:16,656\nCity administration moves out of downtown for an\n\n861\n00:47:16,696 --> 00:47:20,546\nundetermined amount of time, whether it's eight years or whatever the length of\n\n862\n00:47:20,546 --> 00:47:24,536\ntime this ends up being. They're someplace else,\n\n863\n00:47:24,676 --> 00:47:27,936\nand the community is going someplace else besides downtown during\n\n864\n00:47:27,976 --> 00:47:30,316\nthat time period.\n\n865\n00:47:31,536 --> 00:47:33,386\nThere's a risk that the full Civic Hub\n\n866\n00:47:34,316 --> 00:47:38,216\nvision becomes more difficult to achieve because of the delay risks that we\n\n867\n00:47:38,256 --> 00:47:42,206\ntalked about earlier. There's a missed opportunity for\n\n868\n00:47:42,256 --> 00:47:45,456\nthe shared site efficiencies, construction efficiencies that we talked about.\n\n869\n00:47:46,796 --> 00:47:47,376\nWe're now\n\n870\n00:47:48,916 --> 00:47:52,576\ndelaying parts of the Downtown Vitality Task Force goals\n\n871\n00:47:53,036 --> 00:47:56,736\nbecause we don't have that civic space that's going to\n\n872\n00:47:56,796 --> 00:47:59,896\nencourage people to come in.\n\n873\n00:48:01,276 --> 00:48:01,856\nAnd lastly,\n\n874\n00:48:03,036 --> 00:48:05,356\nbecause city hall staff are\n\n875\n00:48:05,516 --> 00:48:09,126\nin a lease condition\n\n876\n00:48:09,176 --> 00:48:11,336\nsomeplace else, you have higher lease costs.\n\n877\n00:48:12,916 --> 00:48:16,896\nSo the overall cost to implement this one total is\n\n878\n00:48:16,906 --> 00:48:20,866\n$267 million. It's $116.6\n\n879\n00:48:20,896 --> 00:48:24,336\nmillion for the police station when you first build it,\n\n880\n00:48:24,856 --> 00:48:28,356\nbut then because of that escalation, Civic Campus now costs\n\n881\n00:48:28,366 --> 00:48:29,996\n$151 million to build.\n\n882\n00:48:31,596 --> 00:48:34,116\nCan I ask a detail question?\n\n883\n00:48:34,146 --> 00:48:34,146\nYes, please.\n\n884\n00:48:34,156 --> 00:48:35,656\nJust because I'm super curious.\n\n885\n00:48:35,976 --> 00:48:36,156\nYeah.\n\n886\n00:48:36,416 --> 00:48:40,036\nYou talk about this brilliant idea of having the garage go all the way across.\n\n887\n00:48:40,096 --> 00:48:40,236\nSure.\n\n888\n00:48:40,816 --> 00:48:43,156\nHow does building them one at a time affect that?\n\n889\n00:48:43,336 --> 00:48:47,276\nBecause you can\n\n890\n00:48:47,316 --> 00:48:48,816\nonly build half, right?\n\n891\n00:48:48,996 --> 00:48:50,856\nYou don't really have that option anymore.\n\n892\n00:48:50,956 --> 00:48:51,216\nOkay.\n\n893\n00:48:51,656 --> 00:48:55,628\nYeah.I guess the add-on to that is the\n\n894\n00:48:55,728 --> 00:48:59,668\nsecure parking need for the police wouldn't fit in a\n\n895\n00:48:59,748 --> 00:49:01,188\none-story parking garage-\n\n896\n00:49:01,258 --> 00:49:02,088\n... under the PD.\n\n897\n00:49:02,408 --> 00:49:02,488\nRight.\n\n898\n00:49:02,788 --> 00:49:05,348\nSo they wouldn't have their fleet needs meet K1.\n\n899\n00:49:05,648 --> 00:49:08,228\nBut would it fit under the police and the plaza?\n\n900\n00:49:09,188 --> 00:49:10,328\nIt could potentially.\n\n901\n00:49:11,168 --> 00:49:12,948\nThat's something that would need to be studied.\n\n902\n00:49:13,138 --> 00:49:13,308\nMm.\n\n903\n00:49:13,588 --> 00:49:15,408\nI think the reality of\n\n904\n00:49:16,768 --> 00:49:20,108\nthe plaza's function goes best with the Civic Campus.\n\n905\n00:49:20,588 --> 00:49:21,028\nAnd so\n\n906\n00:49:21,908 --> 00:49:24,948\neven if you, to your point, Council Elmes, if you built\n\n907\n00:49:26,328 --> 00:49:30,248\ntwo-thirds of that parking, building that last third gets really challenging\n\n908\n00:49:31,288 --> 00:49:33,368\nin sort of making those connections to it.\n\n909\n00:49:37,468 --> 00:49:41,148\nBut you believe you would meet the parking\n\n910\n00:49:41,228 --> 00:49:43,188\nrequirements for the police station?\n\n911\n00:49:43,468 --> 00:49:45,528\nWe don't even see. We have to verify that.\n\n912\n00:49:49,268 --> 00:49:49,908\nYeah.\n\n913\n00:49:50,468 --> 00:49:50,708\nSo\n\n914\n00:49:52,208 --> 00:49:56,048\nthe new public safety building is built, the street remains the\n\n915\n00:49:56,108 --> 00:49:56,428\nsame.\n\n916\n00:49:57,808 --> 00:50:01,668\nThe idea being that the remaining facilities, the buildings\n\n917\n00:50:01,728 --> 00:50:04,608\nthat we're in, is no longer occupied by city staff.\n\n918\n00:50:04,858 --> 00:50:06,708\nThey've now moved to another location.\n\n919\n00:50:07,668 --> 00:50:07,768\nYou\n\n920\n00:50:09,128 --> 00:50:12,928\nreally don't need these facilities anymore from a city\n\n921\n00:50:13,008 --> 00:50:13,648\nstandpoint.\n\n922\n00:50:14,688 --> 00:50:18,188\nWhether you decide to try and lease them or something, that's on you.\n\n923\n00:50:18,268 --> 00:50:21,748\nBut having that capability to use that site as staging\n\n924\n00:50:22,168 --> 00:50:26,088\nand not have to maintain these buildings anymore suggests that you might just\n\n925\n00:50:26,108 --> 00:50:28,188\ntake them down. And so you have a\n\n926\n00:50:29,768 --> 00:50:30,848\npartially realized vision.\n\n927\n00:50:31,968 --> 00:50:34,688\nWell, and also just to add to that,\n\n928\n00:50:36,888 --> 00:50:40,808\nour direction as staff is to construct\n\n929\n00:50:40,948 --> 00:50:43,888\nthe council's direction, which is two buildings at some point in time.\n\n930\n00:50:44,208 --> 00:50:48,088\nAnd so by taking the buildings down, you're setting the stage for that to be able\n\n931\n00:50:48,108 --> 00:50:48,608\nto happen\n\n932\n00:50:49,908 --> 00:50:52,828\nmore efficiently when the time comes for the second building to happen.\n\n933\n00:50:52,838 --> 00:50:53,218\nAbsolutely.\n\n934\n00:50:53,368 --> 00:50:53,508\nYeah.\n\n935\n00:50:56,908 --> 00:51:00,708\nQuestion. Where does the staging occur in just building the police\n\n936\n00:51:00,748 --> 00:51:01,187\nbuilding?\n\n937\n00:51:02,728 --> 00:51:06,508\nWe could have it on the back, some on the backside of the law\n\n938\n00:51:06,548 --> 00:51:09,528\nenforcement building or the police station building, but you've got your\n\n939\n00:51:09,588 --> 00:51:10,828\ntransportation hub is there.\n\n940\n00:51:11,928 --> 00:51:15,868\nIt can happen in the plaza, but you're going to be working on\n\n941\n00:51:15,928 --> 00:51:17,688\nboth buildings and then do the plaza last.\n\n942\n00:51:18,128 --> 00:51:20,048\nIt's a question for the contractor overall.\n\n943\n00:51:20,528 --> 00:51:22,788\nYou're not going to obviously impact\n\n944\n00:51:23,648 --> 00:51:27,608\n6th because of the train going by. You don't want to impact 5th because\n\n945\n00:51:27,628 --> 00:51:29,128\nit's kind of a major through repair.\n\n946\n00:51:29,828 --> 00:51:33,028\nIt's going to be a difficult site regardless in either option.\n\n947\n00:51:33,548 --> 00:51:35,508\nI think there is advantage to stage-\n\n948\n00:51:35,808 --> 00:51:35,817\nYes\n\n949\n00:51:35,817 --> 00:51:37,308\n... on the right-hand side there.\n\n950\n00:51:37,388 --> 00:51:37,588\nRight.\n\n951\n00:51:37,748 --> 00:51:38,848\nRight where we're sitting here.\n\n952\n00:51:39,888 --> 00:51:40,288\nYeah.\n\n953\n00:51:40,317 --> 00:51:40,317\nYeah.\n\n954\n00:51:40,388 --> 00:51:40,848\nGood point.\n\n955\n00:51:41,468 --> 00:51:41,828\nYeah.\n\n956\n00:51:43,448 --> 00:51:47,408\nBut then the question arises, if you phase it, where do\n\n957\n00:51:47,448 --> 00:51:49,508\nyou stage for building the second half?\n\n958\n00:51:49,648 --> 00:51:49,788\nRight.\n\n959\n00:51:49,928 --> 00:51:51,788\nWhichever building it is that comes first.\n\n960\n00:51:52,528 --> 00:51:53,848\nExactly. Now you have a problem.\n\n961\n00:51:54,008 --> 00:51:56,858\nYeah. Basically, staging is going to be a problem whatever you do.\n\n962\n00:51:56,858 --> 00:51:57,708\nWhichever .\n\n963\n00:52:02,648 --> 00:52:06,188\nSo, implementation strategy three is you reverse\n\n964\n00:52:06,198 --> 00:52:10,128\nthat. You do the Civic Campus first, and you\n\n965\n00:52:11,008 --> 00:52:12,078\nphase the police station.\n\n966\n00:52:13,188 --> 00:52:13,788\nIn this case,\n\n967\n00:52:14,688 --> 00:52:17,537\nyou're reinforcing the civic presence and identity downtown.\n\n968\n00:52:18,808 --> 00:52:20,788\nCivic staff return to downtown sooner.\n\n969\n00:52:22,408 --> 00:52:25,948\nIt improves administration efficiency and service delivery for the city operations\n\n970\n00:52:25,968 --> 00:52:28,468\nwhen they're downtown, closer to where people are.\n\n971\n00:52:29,868 --> 00:52:33,348\nSupports downtown vitality through daily staff and visitor\n\n972\n00:52:33,428 --> 00:52:36,228\nactivity. Again, more people coming to the building.\n\n973\n00:52:37,088 --> 00:52:40,068\nEstablish as part of the Civic Campus framework,\n\n974\n00:52:41,168 --> 00:52:44,828\nall of it, and then lower initial capital costs similar\n\n975\n00:52:44,948 --> 00:52:46,388\nto phasing the police station.\n\n976\n00:52:48,068 --> 00:52:48,468\nInitial\n\n977\n00:52:49,468 --> 00:52:49,537\ncapital costs.\n\n978\n00:52:49,808 --> 00:52:51,668\nInitial capital costs. Appreciate that.\n\n979\n00:52:53,728 --> 00:52:57,138\nThe cons here is the police department relocates for an undetermined amount of\n\n980\n00:52:57,168 --> 00:53:00,728\ntime. As we talked about, the longer portion of the building is very\n\n981\n00:53:00,768 --> 00:53:02,848\nchallenging from a resilient standpoint.\n\n982\n00:53:04,008 --> 00:53:07,968\nThe renovation of temporary public safety facility is expensive, as we mentioned.\n\n983\n00:53:08,028 --> 00:53:11,788\nIf you try to move the police someplace temporarily, you're building a lot more\n\n984\n00:53:11,808 --> 00:53:14,567\nexpensive construction to house them in that location.\n\n985\n00:53:15,488 --> 00:53:19,468\nThe full civic hub vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of\n\n986\n00:53:19,508 --> 00:53:20,388\nthe delay\n\n987\n00:53:21,208 --> 00:53:22,188\nrisks that we talked about.\n\n988\n00:53:23,128 --> 00:53:26,668\nAnd the civic vision remains incomplete for an extended period\n\n989\n00:53:27,048 --> 00:53:30,928\nof time. Missed opportunity to strengthen community interaction with public\n\n990\n00:53:31,028 --> 00:53:34,668\nsafety. So as architects who design public\n\n991\n00:53:34,748 --> 00:53:35,788\nsafety facilities,\n\n992\n00:53:36,768 --> 00:53:40,308\none of the things that we are often trying to do within municipal police\n\n993\n00:53:40,388 --> 00:53:44,188\nstations is create opportunities for police to\n\n994\n00:53:44,248 --> 00:53:47,168\ninteract with the public outside of a 911 call.\n\n995\n00:53:47,948 --> 00:53:51,808\nThat is a huge part of relations between residents\n\n996\n00:53:51,888 --> 00:53:54,088\nand public safety staff.\n\n997\n00:53:54,928 --> 00:53:58,788\nAnd anything that we can do that encourages the\n\n998\n00:53:58,808 --> 00:54:02,028\npolice to be walking to shops downtown to grab lunch-\n\n999\n00:54:02,848 --> 00:54:03,508\nYeah\n\n1000\n00:54:03,518 --> 00:54:06,268\n... in between shifts, whatever it is that we can do to\n\n1001\n00:54:07,648 --> 00:54:11,208\nnormalize interactions there, we look for that opportunity wherever we\n\n1002\n00:54:11,728 --> 00:54:15,648\ncan. Because we've paired these two projects together, however they're\n\n1003\n00:54:15,708 --> 00:54:18,528\nimplemented, there's a lot of potential for that to happen here.\n\n1004\n00:54:20,848 --> 00:54:24,758\nQuestion. So this, the cost does include the renovation of the\n\n1005\n00:54:24,828 --> 00:54:26,008\ntemporary public-\n\n1006\n00:54:26,268 --> 00:54:26,828\nThis does not.\n\n1007\n00:54:26,968 --> 00:54:27,548\nDoes not.\n\n1008\n00:54:27,618 --> 00:54:30,968\nDoes not. This is just the cost to implement this vision.\n\n1009\n00:54:31,868 --> 00:54:31,957\nOkay.\n\n1010\n00:54:32,008 --> 00:54:35,748\nNone of these include any sort of lease, long-term or short-term.\n\n1011\n00:54:35,808 --> 00:54:38,888\nOkay. So I think it's an important point to\n\n1012\n00:54:39,208 --> 00:54:39,948\nrelocating\n\n1013\n00:54:40,848 --> 00:54:44,448\nadministrative staff temporarily is one cost X, yet\n\n1014\n00:54:44,488 --> 00:54:48,348\nrelocating police and building the supporting structure for that\n\n1015\n00:54:48,408 --> 00:54:50,088\nis multiple X.\n\n1016\n00:54:50,228 --> 00:54:50,428\nYes.\n\n1017\n00:54:50,808 --> 00:54:51,168\nOkay.\n\n1018\n00:54:52,408 --> 00:54:52,948\nSure.\n\n1019\n00:54:52,988 --> 00:54:54,968\nAre these numbers in\n\n1020\n00:54:56,108 --> 00:54:59,888\nthe second number on that, is there anyAttempt to\n\n1021\n00:54:59,908 --> 00:55:03,708\nadjust for inflation. If you assume, obviously money is\n\n1022\n00:55:03,748 --> 00:55:04,608\nnot going to be...\n\n1023\n00:55:05,668 --> 00:55:06,848\nInflation's going to happen.\n\n1024\n00:55:07,048 --> 00:55:07,248\nRight.\n\n1025\n00:55:07,548 --> 00:55:11,268\nSo in real dollar terms, when you build the second one,\n\n1026\n00:55:12,148 --> 00:55:13,448\n185 is-\n\n1027\n00:55:14,208 --> 00:55:14,628\nRight\n\n1028\n00:55:14,648 --> 00:55:18,568\n... is current dollars then, and you make no assumptions about\n\n1029\n00:55:18,708 --> 00:55:19,748\nactual inflation-\n\n1030\n00:55:19,888 --> 00:55:20,068\nNo\n\n1031\n00:55:20,078 --> 00:55:20,968\n... between now and then.\n\n1032\n00:55:21,108 --> 00:55:24,688\nSo the numbers below, the first number in the\n\n1033\n00:55:24,748 --> 00:55:28,668\nparentheses is what it costs to build the Civic Campus in\n\n1034\n00:55:28,808 --> 00:55:29,388\n2029.\n\n1035\n00:55:29,668 --> 00:55:29,888\nRight.\n\n1036\n00:55:30,288 --> 00:55:34,088\nRight. The second number, the 185.9, is the\n\n1037\n00:55:34,148 --> 00:55:36,548\ncost of building the police station in\n\n1038\n00:55:36,768 --> 00:55:38,208\n2037.\n\n1039\n00:55:38,497 --> 00:55:38,708\n37. Yeah.\n\n1040\n00:55:39,588 --> 00:55:42,708\nWhich that includes the escalation to 2037.\n\n1041\n00:55:42,928 --> 00:55:44,928\nIt includes the 6%\n\n1042\n00:55:45,028 --> 00:55:46,928\nescalation.\n\n1043\n00:55:47,128 --> 00:55:47,298\nGot it.\n\n1044\n00:55:47,308 --> 00:55:51,148\nBut it does not include any adjustment to that in the\n\n1045\n00:55:51,208 --> 00:55:51,868\ncost of-\n\n1046\n00:55:52,128 --> 00:55:52,398\nInflation\n\n1047\n00:55:52,428 --> 00:55:55,848\n... the 2, 3, 4% inflation.\n\n1048\n00:55:56,168 --> 00:55:56,288\nNo.\n\n1049\n00:55:56,468 --> 00:55:59,768\nSo that's, in a sense, both of these are sort of an\n\n1050\n00:55:59,848 --> 00:56:00,928\noverstatement\n\n1051\n00:56:01,888 --> 00:56:03,727\nof the real cost of money.\n\n1052\n00:56:04,528 --> 00:56:06,528\nI challenge that a little bit.\n\n1053\n00:56:06,788 --> 00:56:08,028\nI mean, Harry's-\n\n1054\n00:56:08,048 --> 00:56:11,588\nSaid it a little bit before, I'm not an economist, so I can't\n\n1055\n00:56:11,928 --> 00:56:15,748\nweigh too far into that. But ultimately, as I said before,\n\n1056\n00:56:16,308 --> 00:56:19,608\nyou're still outstripping the pace of what the consumer price is.\n\n1057\n00:56:19,728 --> 00:56:19,838\nRight.\n\n1058\n00:56:19,838 --> 00:56:19,928\nRight?\n\n1059\n00:56:20,688 --> 00:56:23,828\nSix. It's that 6% that we talked about before.\n\n1060\n00:56:24,108 --> 00:56:24,708\nYeah. But\n\n1061\n00:56:25,528 --> 00:56:27,998\njust for clarity,\n\n1062\n00:56:29,158 --> 00:56:32,398\nthe 185 includes the 6%. It doesn't\n\n1063\n00:56:32,428 --> 00:56:36,358\ninclude any adjustment to somebody looking\n\n1064\n00:56:36,408 --> 00:56:40,308\nat that, that inflation has done, is responsible for a piece\n\n1065\n00:56:40,368 --> 00:56:41,548\nof that, so to speak.\n\n1066\n00:56:42,308 --> 00:56:42,808\nThat's correct.\n\n1067\n00:56:42,888 --> 00:56:43,128\nOkay.\n\n1068\n00:56:43,288 --> 00:56:43,488\nRight.\n\n1069\n00:56:43,848 --> 00:56:44,108\nOkay.\n\n1070\n00:56:44,328 --> 00:56:44,438\nWell-\n\n1071\n00:56:46,068 --> 00:56:46,198\nAnd\n\n1072\n00:56:47,348 --> 00:56:50,738\nI recognize, you could make whatever assumption you wanted to make.\n\n1073\n00:56:50,808 --> 00:56:54,188\nInflation will be 3%, escalated will be 6%,\n\n1074\n00:56:54,628 --> 00:56:57,048\nand so the real increase is something-\n\n1075\n00:56:57,208 --> 00:56:57,348\nRight\n\n1076\n00:56:57,888 --> 00:57:01,348\n... but it's all funny money numbers between here and there.\n\n1077\n00:57:01,408 --> 00:57:03,008\nThe clarity there, Paul, is that\n\n1078\n00:57:03,808 --> 00:57:07,668\nif you're trying to gauge what somebody feels that number\n\n1079\n00:57:08,068 --> 00:57:09,168\nis, right?\n\n1080\n00:57:09,408 --> 00:57:12,398\nRight. And I'm not disputing that at all.\n\n1081\n00:57:12,408 --> 00:57:12,548\nRight.\n\n1082\n00:57:12,668 --> 00:57:14,608\nI'm just thinking for,\n\n1083\n00:57:16,148 --> 00:57:19,548\nin terms of actually paying for it in real dollars.\n\n1084\n00:57:19,888 --> 00:57:23,817\nThat is the cost that the contractor would say you're going\n\n1085\n00:57:23,828 --> 00:57:25,708\nto pay in 20-\n\n1086\n00:57:25,868 --> 00:57:26,268\nIn 20-\n\n1087\n00:57:27,208 --> 00:57:28,408\n2037.\n\n1088\n00:57:28,448 --> 00:57:28,458\n2037.\n\n1089\n00:57:28,688 --> 00:57:28,868\nYeah.\n\n1090\n00:57:29,148 --> 00:57:30,528\nTo build that police station.\n\n1091\n00:57:32,088 --> 00:57:32,388\nHeck.\n\n1092\n00:57:34,688 --> 00:57:36,868\nYeah. Okay.\n\n1093\n00:57:37,068 --> 00:57:40,648\nIn eight years, $185 million sounds cheap.\n\n1094\n00:57:40,668 --> 00:57:42,448\nThat'd be great news for us.\n\n1095\n00:57:44,848 --> 00:57:45,328\nI think\n\n1096\n00:57:47,468 --> 00:57:50,468\nmaybe a slightly different take on that.\n\n1097\n00:57:50,537 --> 00:57:50,537\nYeah.\n\n1098\n00:57:50,548 --> 00:57:52,968\nThe question for me is that,\n\n1099\n00:57:54,788 --> 00:57:58,408\nit would be nice to know, easy enough to\n\n1100\n00:57:58,468 --> 00:58:02,228\ncalculate, how much of the 185.9\n\n1101\n00:58:02,268 --> 00:58:06,248\nmillion was because of the delay.\n\n1102\n00:58:06,408 --> 00:58:07,028\nThe escalation.\n\n1103\n00:58:07,528 --> 00:58:08,448\nYeah, because I think the\n\n1104\n00:58:10,848 --> 00:58:14,657\ncommon intuition might be, we'll build one now, then\n\n1105\n00:58:14,708 --> 00:58:15,568\nbuild one later,\n\n1106\n00:58:16,488 --> 00:58:18,748\nand what's the diff?\n\n1107\n00:58:19,408 --> 00:58:19,708\nSure.\n\n1108\n00:58:19,738 --> 00:58:23,028\nAnd I think that's the point that I think is important is\n\n1109\n00:58:23,068 --> 00:58:26,968\nthat the cost of delay is costing a lot\n\n1110\n00:58:27,028 --> 00:58:28,388\nmore than you imagine.\n\n1111\n00:58:28,588 --> 00:58:28,768\nYes.\n\n1112\n00:58:29,448 --> 00:58:33,007\nYeah. And I think that it might be useful to highlight the-\n\n1113\n00:58:33,018 --> 00:58:33,848\nRight.\n\n1114\n00:58:34,708 --> 00:58:37,668\nSo in this strategy, the $185.9\n\n1115\n00:58:38,908 --> 00:58:40,268\namount is for the police station.\n\n1116\n00:58:40,588 --> 00:58:41,108\nI know. Right.\n\n1117\n00:58:41,168 --> 00:58:43,928\nSo go back to slide strategy two.\n\n1118\n00:58:45,908 --> 00:58:49,568\nThat's 116 million if you build it now.\n\n1119\n00:58:49,638 --> 00:58:50,128\nRight.\n\n1120\n00:58:50,157 --> 00:58:53,568\nSo the difference between 116, and I've already forgot the other number,\n\n1121\n00:58:53,708 --> 00:58:55,408\n185 is that.\n\n1122\n00:58:57,068 --> 00:59:00,888\nYeah. I mean, I don't know. It's clean subtraction, but it's fine.\n\n1123\n00:59:00,908 --> 00:59:04,907\nIt's close enough. I think that's the point I presume Chair's making.\n\n1124\n00:59:05,028 --> 00:59:05,408\nSo-\n\n1125\n00:59:05,438 --> 00:59:07,358\n... for us to get to those numbers,\n\n1126\n00:59:08,708 --> 00:59:12,448\nwe took the 116.6 and multiplied it times\n\n1127\n00:59:12,688 --> 00:59:14,418\n6% per year for eight years.\n\n1128\n00:59:14,448 --> 00:59:14,708\nRight.\n\n1129\n00:59:15,488 --> 00:59:16,848\nWhich got us to the\n\n1130\n00:59:17,968 --> 00:59:18,788\n185.9.\n\n1131\n00:59:18,828 --> 00:59:19,028\nYeah.\n\n1132\n00:59:20,808 --> 00:59:21,688\nAnd so likewise,\n\n1133\n00:59:22,728 --> 00:59:22,968\nin\n\n1134\n00:59:24,088 --> 00:59:26,608\nwhat we will call current, the police station would cost,\n\n1135\n00:59:27,748 --> 00:59:29,148\nI'm sorry, the Civic Campus would cost-\n\n1136\n00:59:29,828 --> 00:59:30,548\n94\n\n1137\n00:59:31,388 --> 00:59:33,388\n... and in the other scenario.\n\n1138\n00:59:33,528 --> 00:59:34,788\nIt would cost 151.\n\n1139\n00:59:35,888 --> 00:59:36,548\nSo like 40,\n\n1140\n00:59:37,688 --> 00:59:38,147\n60 something.\n\n1141\n00:59:38,408 --> 00:59:41,698\nYeah. She's roughly 60,000. 60 million,\n\n1142\n00:59:41,908 --> 00:59:42,668\nsorry.\n\n1143\n00:59:43,268 --> 00:59:44,308\n60 million.\n\n1144\n00:59:46,228 --> 00:59:49,068\nAll right. Well, yeah, I mean, it's 6% compounded by a year or so.\n\n1145\n00:59:49,428 --> 00:59:50,528\nIt's going to be a big deal.\n\n1146\n00:59:50,668 --> 00:59:51,128\nIt's going to be big.\n\n1147\n00:59:51,668 --> 00:59:55,128\nI just think it's good from a communication point of view, because there's an\n\n1148\n00:59:55,208 --> 00:59:57,048\nintuition that\n\n1149\n00:59:58,168 --> 00:59:58,508\nif\n\n1150\n01:00:00,188 --> 01:00:03,678\nI just wait, if I just stay things out, it's going to be better\n\n1151\n01:00:04,528 --> 01:00:05,008\nsomehow.\n\n1152\n01:00:05,448 --> 01:00:05,628\nMm-hmm.\n\n1153\n01:00:07,268 --> 01:00:08,728\nAs opposed to\n\n1154\n01:00:10,108 --> 01:00:12,688\nat 6% per year.\n\n1155\n01:00:13,288 --> 01:00:14,568\n8%. What was the number, six?\n\n1156\n01:00:14,908 --> 01:00:14,978\n6%.\n\n1157\n01:00:15,188 --> 01:00:15,488\n6%.\n\n1158\n01:00:16,068 --> 01:00:16,668\nFor eight years.\n\n1159\n01:00:16,788 --> 01:00:17,508\nOkay. For eight years.\n\n1160\n01:00:18,448 --> 01:00:19,048\nYeah, it's going to\n\n1161\n01:00:20,308 --> 01:00:21,288\nbe a significant\n\n1162\n01:00:22,528 --> 01:00:24,108\neffect every year you wait.\n\n1163\n01:00:24,728 --> 01:00:25,828\nDefinitely.\n\n1164\n01:00:25,988 --> 01:00:28,648\nYou can't just wait a year. Well, I mean, that's your point.\n\n1165\n01:00:29,028 --> 01:00:31,028\nWe can try to wait a year.\n\n1166\n01:00:31,328 --> 01:00:31,338\nRight.\n\n1167\n01:00:31,368 --> 01:00:34,408\nBut anyway, I think it's important to call that out.\n\n1168\n01:00:34,468 --> 01:00:38,448\nYeah. And I think you can look back at that graphic that we showed initially that\n\n1169\n01:00:38,468 --> 01:00:41,808\nshows if we had started in 2027, if we were getting in\n\n1170\n01:00:41,928 --> 01:00:45,588\n2027 for both projects at 188, if we're bidding in\n\n1171\n01:00:45,708 --> 01:00:47,707\n2029 for both projects, it's now 201.\n\n1172\n01:00:48,648 --> 01:00:48,808\nYeah.\n\n1173\n01:00:49,888 --> 01:00:50,328\nYeah. So\n\n1174\n01:00:51,368 --> 01:00:53,228\nbasically more than double.\n\n1175\n01:00:53,368 --> 01:00:57,128\nSo a lot to hear was we were talking about sort of a phased\n\n1176\n01:00:57,188 --> 01:01:00,948\napproach, that there's the cost implication on it, and then\n\n1177\n01:01:00,988 --> 01:01:03,808\nthere's the risk to whether or not you're going to have the full vision.\n\n1178\n01:01:04,548 --> 01:01:04,728\nRight.\n\n1179\n01:01:04,828 --> 01:01:08,530\nBecause in addition toYou're\n\n1180\n01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,900\nbuilding one, and then you're going to come back and you hopefully have a funding\n\n1181\n01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,780\nsource that the public supports. So as I mentioned\n\n1182\n01:01:15,980 --> 01:01:19,210\nwhen I started, this is over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time with\n\n1183\n01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,980\ncommunity engagement and working with communities to get to\n\n1184\n01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,980\nfunding these projects. And obviously I'm not the funding expert, but I'm helping\n\n1185\n01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,760\nwith messaging, communication, understanding of the\n\n1186\n01:01:31,820 --> 01:01:33,120\nprojects, and et cetera.\n\n1187\n01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,140\nAnd so when you're, and we're not saying this is your approach, but if you're\n\n1188\n01:01:38,180 --> 01:01:40,180\ngoing for a bond, which a lot of communities do,\n\n1189\n01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,680\nyou're always going to have people who are fantastic supporters of\n\n1190\n01:01:45,690 --> 01:01:48,720\nspecific items of any kind and they'll support everything.\n\n1191\n01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,660\nThen you have people who are the opposite end of that spectrum who will never pay\n\n1192\n01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:53,380\nfor anything.\n\n1193\n01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:54,260\nRight.\n\n1194\n01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,540\nAnd there's a certain percentage always of either end of that spectrum.\n\n1195\n01:01:58,180 --> 01:02:02,040\nIn the middle are the people who you're trying to communicate what the need\n\n1196\n01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,880\nis and is the cost reasonable.\n\n1197\n01:02:06,140 --> 01:02:06,440\nRight.\n\n1198\n01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,960\nWhat often is the trap\n\n1199\n01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:12,279\nis that people go out for a bond.\n\n1200\n01:02:13,419 --> 01:02:16,480\nThere's a number that's put out there, and it doesn't pass.\n\n1201\n01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,600\nAnd I'm not saying this would happen to you, but it's something that's relatively\n\n1202\n01:02:19,660 --> 01:02:22,820\ncommon. And the community says, \"That's just way too expensive.\"\n\n1203\n01:02:24,140 --> 01:02:27,680\nNow you go back out a year later, and you've somehow\n\n1204\n01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,480\naddressed the community's concern.\n\n1205\n01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:33,079\nYou've pared that number back, but you've lost a year of buying power.\n\n1206\n01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:33,470\nMm-hmm.\n\n1207\n01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040\nAnd so now you can't even build what that original vision is.\n\n1208\n01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:40,460\nWe've been working with another community that I won't mention.\n\n1209\n01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:43,940\nThey've tried four times to do a public safety book\n\n1210\n01:02:44,860 --> 01:02:48,000\nthat includes a fire station and a police. Four times.\n\n1211\n01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:48,380\nMm.\n\n1212\n01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:52,440\nFirst time was like $6 million. The last time they tried was\n\n1213\n01:02:52,450 --> 01:02:56,280\n$15 million. The version that we did with them was almost $32 million.\n\n1214\n01:02:56,740 --> 01:02:57,080\nWow.\n\n1215\n01:02:57,740 --> 01:02:59,780\nAnd there's other complications within.\n\n1216\n01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,080\nBut ultimately,\n\n1217\n01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,500\nevery time you have to go to the community, you're finding those ends of the\n\n1218\n01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,180\nspectrum. Trying to find the reasonable argument in the middle.\n\n1219\n01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,860\nAnd every time takes time, energy,\n\n1220\n01:03:15,180 --> 01:03:19,140\ninvestment of staff or council to\n\n1221\n01:03:19,219 --> 01:03:23,160\nmove these projects forward. So when you get to that\n\n1222\n01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,420\neight-year mark that we're talking about here, you're going to go through\n\n1223\n01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,840\nthat process again, and hopefully you've got the same\n\n1224\n01:03:32,300 --> 01:03:34,800\nsupport from the community that you did when you did it the first time.\n\n1225\n01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:36,600\nAnd so there's a risk then.\n\n1226\n01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:42,240\nOkay. So last scenario.\n\n1227\n01:03:44,220 --> 01:03:45,470\nSo the\n\n1228\n01:03:46,780 --> 01:03:47,920\ncampus will be built,\n\n1229\n01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:52,480\nand same sort of conversation about the\n\n1230\n01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,160\nexisting building and the\n\n1231\n01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:56,560\n.\n\n1232\n01:03:58,220 --> 01:03:58,920\nOne more IP.\n\n1233\n01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:00,560\nAnd thank you.\n\n1234\n01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,320\nThose have been removed for the same reasons.\n\n1235\n01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,280\nSo the last strategy is that you do nothing right now,\n\n1236\n01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:14,320\nand\n\n1237\n01:04:15,820 --> 01:04:19,520\nyou delay both projects to whatever timeframe you\n\n1238\n01:04:19,580 --> 01:04:23,380\ndecide. But to keep things apples to apples, we said you delay eight\n\n1239\n01:04:23,420 --> 01:04:25,500\nyears. But really, it's unknown.\n\n1240\n01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:30,420\nYou don't know what might happen. So the\n\n1241\n01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,840\npros are you don't have any immediate out-of-pocket capital\n\n1242\n01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:34,639\nexpenditures.\n\n1243\n01:04:35,780 --> 01:04:39,620\nBut the cons are, the biggest one being the construction escalation.\n\n1244\n01:04:41,140 --> 01:04:44,200\nThe city abandons downtown for an undetermined amount of time.\n\n1245\n01:04:45,820 --> 01:04:48,960\nThe remodeling space for public safety is expensive, like we talked\n\n1246\n01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:50,120\nabout.\n\n1247\n01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,640\nYou now have somewhat of a misalignment with your Downtown Vitality Task\n\n1248\n01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:56,210\nForce goals.\n\n1249\n01:04:57,940 --> 01:05:00,140\nDoes not address the long-term facility management.\n\n1250\n01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:04,440\nAs a reminder, these were the priority projects.\n\n1251\n01:05:04,449 --> 01:05:08,080\nSo all the projects that needed to come behind these ones are also now\n\n1252\n01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:08,500\nfrozen.\n\n1253\n01:05:10,580 --> 01:05:14,450\nYou have loss of momentum. You've been working on\n\n1254\n01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:16,700\nthis topic for significant amount of time.\n\n1255\n01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,370\nOther citywide facility strategy projects are further delayed, just mentioned\n\n1256\n01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,449\nthat. This is the highest cost to implement of all the options\n\n1257\n01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:28,660\nbecause you're paying the most escalation over time.\n\n1258\n01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,950\nAnd then you have the highest long-term lease costs because you don't\n\n1259\n01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,720\nknow how long the city's going to have these lease costs.\n\n1260\n01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:40,840\nAll right.\n\n1261\n01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:41,880\nSo\n\n1262\n01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,920\nback to our graph, or diagram.\n\n1263\n01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,680\nWhat we've done is we've taken the\n\n1264\n01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,420\nscenario number one, which is you build everything.\n\n1265\n01:05:52,460 --> 01:05:54,000\nThat's the orange dot at the bottom.\n\n1266\n01:05:54,580 --> 01:05:57,260\nAssumes you're bidding the project in 2029.\n\n1267\n01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,440\nIt's $211 million.\n\n1268\n01:06:01,260 --> 01:06:05,140\nOption two, where you delay city campus, is the one, the dot that's furthest on the\n\n1269\n01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,620\nupper left, and that's at $268 million.\n\n1270\n01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,080\nThe option three, which is delay the police station,\n\n1271\n01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,540\nis in the middle, is $281 million. And\n\n1272\n01:06:16,620 --> 01:06:18,820\nthe last option is the\n\n1273\n01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:24,020\n$337 million. Again, assuming that you're waiting eight years, it should really\n\n1274\n01:06:24,060 --> 01:06:24,500\ngo down.\n\n1275\n01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,680\nAt that point, from 237 onwards,\n\n1276\n01:06:29,580 --> 01:06:33,380\nit's $20 million a year in escalation for\n\n1277\n01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,180\nthe cost of these projects. So going back to looking at our three blue\n\n1278\n01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:40,440\ndots on the left, you're kind of back to that scenario,\n\n1279\n01:06:41,540 --> 01:06:45,160\nwhere we talked about it, but we're going to pause it for some\n\n1280\n01:06:45,220 --> 01:06:46,120\nduration of time.\n\n1281\n01:06:49,220 --> 01:06:50,520\nI'll leave it here just for a\n\n1282\n01:06:51,620 --> 01:06:53,420\nminute if there's any questions.\n\n1283\n01:06:58,300 --> 01:06:59,660\nI was thinking you were leaving here for dramatic\n\n1284\n01:07:01,540 --> 01:07:02,620\neffect.\n\n1285\n01:07:03,820 --> 01:07:04,200\nThat's it.\n\n1286\n01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,880\nAll right. So in summary, we've given you four\n\n1287\n01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,805\ndifferentAvenues or implementation strategies for\n\n1288\n01:07:13,836 --> 01:07:17,005\nthis. We've talked about the pros and cons relative to that.\n\n1289\n01:07:17,056 --> 01:07:20,796\nThe only other thing that I might add here is that\n\n1290\n01:07:20,896 --> 01:07:24,676\nwhen I first had the opportunity to talk to you, the thing that we\n\n1291\n01:07:24,716 --> 01:07:28,416\nwere most potentially excited about these projects is the potential\n\n1292\n01:07:28,476 --> 01:07:32,356\ncatalyst that they could bring, particularly with what OB\n\n1293\n01:07:32,396 --> 01:07:34,216\nwas doing at the other end of Madison.\n\n1294\n01:07:34,976 --> 01:07:38,406\nAnd as an architect who works on civic buildings,\n\n1295\n01:07:39,196 --> 01:07:43,066\nI'm incredibly excited about the potential of either of these, or both of\n\n1296\n01:07:43,116 --> 01:07:46,536\nthese projects moving at once with the potential economic\n\n1297\n01:07:46,936 --> 01:07:49,936\ncatalyst that these projects moving with that credit growth.\n\n1298\n01:07:51,116 --> 01:07:54,236\nIt's not often that we often get to work on one project,\n\n1299\n01:07:55,176 --> 01:07:57,556\npolice station, city hall, or something along those lines.\n\n1300\n01:07:58,036 --> 01:08:01,696\nThe potential to do two projects that have synergy and relationship\n\n1301\n01:08:02,796 --> 01:08:03,136\ntogether,\n\n1302\n01:08:04,336 --> 01:08:07,316\nas Mark said, this is sort of once in a generational\n\n1303\n01:08:07,376 --> 01:08:09,436\nopportunity.\n\n1304\n01:08:10,556 --> 01:08:13,896\nHopefully this has given you enough information to think about.\n\n1305\n01:08:14,596 --> 01:08:18,297\nAnd I think this is where I hand it over to\n\n1306\n01:08:18,576 --> 01:08:18,876\nMary.\n\n1307\n01:08:19,116 --> 01:08:21,156\nWe've been asking questions all along, which is great.\n\n1308\n01:08:21,337 --> 01:08:24,076\nIs there any before we move to the next piece?\n\n1309\n01:08:25,896 --> 01:08:28,696\nWe will be able to see these slides for\n\n1310\n01:08:29,416 --> 01:08:30,996\nthe-\n\n1311\n01:08:31,196 --> 01:08:31,436\nYes.\n\n1312\n01:08:31,496 --> 01:08:32,766\nI don't have to watch the video.\n\n1313\n01:08:33,396 --> 01:08:35,356\nNo, we can email them out, but they'll be in the minutes.\n\n1314\n01:08:36,576 --> 01:08:36,887\nPaul,\n\n1315\n01:08:38,996 --> 01:08:41,036\nit makes sense. Paul, thank you.\n\n1316\n01:08:41,587 --> 01:08:41,587\nSure.\n\n1317\n01:08:43,656 --> 01:08:47,456\nI shouldn't have said all of it. There was one piece at the end that I didn't\n\n1318\n01:08:47,536 --> 01:08:49,416\nquite follow, the abandoned downtown.\n\n1319\n01:08:49,456 --> 01:08:50,016\nI feel like\n\n1320\n01:08:51,056 --> 01:08:54,797\nit appeared that the number\n\n1321\n01:08:55,016 --> 01:08:56,596\nassumed that the cost of\n\n1322\n01:08:57,956 --> 01:09:00,257\nbuilding facilities somewhere else-\n\n1323\n01:09:00,356 --> 01:09:00,456\nYeah\n\n1324\n01:09:00,837 --> 01:09:02,547\n... would be the same as the downtown project,\n\n1325\n01:09:03,496 --> 01:09:06,276\nbut it would be a fundamentally different project.\n\n1326\n01:09:06,436 --> 01:09:10,096\nYou're right. If we were not doing these projects and we're doing\n\n1327\n01:09:10,177 --> 01:09:13,816\nsomething else somewhere else, those are not the funds.\n\n1328\n01:09:14,096 --> 01:09:17,536\nAnd I'm not sure who's sitting behind me, but I think that's a terrible idea.\n\n1329\n01:09:17,616 --> 01:09:21,476\nI should be clear about that. I'm not suggesting\n\n1330\n01:09:21,956 --> 01:09:25,376\nthat we should go down that road, but I just want to make sure we're understanding\n\n1331\n01:09:25,436 --> 01:09:26,456\nthe picture.\n\n1332\n01:09:26,596 --> 01:09:30,076\nSure. Our purview, and I just want to reiterate it,\n\n1333\n01:09:30,156 --> 01:09:33,916\nis with the projects in front of us, what does it cost to\n\n1334\n01:09:34,076 --> 01:09:35,177\nimplement just them?\n\n1335\n01:09:35,896 --> 01:09:36,016\nYeah.\n\n1336\n01:09:36,096 --> 01:09:39,016\nAs the architects, we don't own these costs of what you do-\n\n1337\n01:09:39,076 --> 01:09:39,087\nYeah\n\n1338\n01:09:39,087 --> 01:09:40,196\n... outside of that picture.\n\n1339\n01:09:40,316 --> 01:09:43,736\nWell, and also a potential clarification, if I'm understanding your\n\n1340\n01:09:44,257 --> 01:09:45,797\nquestion or concern correctly,\n\n1341\n01:09:46,776 --> 01:09:50,736\nit's called abandoned downtown because we're leaving for a significant period of\n\n1342\n01:09:50,816 --> 01:09:51,116\ntime.\n\n1343\n01:09:51,436 --> 01:09:51,816\nOh, I see.\n\n1344\n01:09:51,837 --> 01:09:54,306\nThe goal would still be to eventually come back-\n\n1345\n01:09:54,476 --> 01:09:55,156\nGot it. Okay\n\n1346\n01:09:55,166 --> 01:09:56,236\n... and build it in this way.\n\n1347\n01:09:56,456 --> 01:09:59,396\nWell, then in theory, there's a fifth option, which is-\n\n1348\n01:09:59,696 --> 01:10:00,146\nWe own it\n\n1349\n01:10:00,146 --> 01:10:01,566\n... we're not going to have city facilities.\n\n1350\n01:10:02,156 --> 01:10:02,396\nRight.\n\n1351\n01:10:03,316 --> 01:10:06,156\nPaul, could we condemn the county building and move out there?\n\n1352\n01:10:09,436 --> 01:10:13,016\nYeah. I think obviously the thing that makes this at least a little bit more\n\n1353\n01:10:13,056 --> 01:10:16,276\nattractive than that is you'd be buying land if you-\n\n1354\n01:10:16,616 --> 01:10:16,876\nYeah\n\n1355\n01:10:16,885 --> 01:10:19,236\n... went forward. So there's additional costs to us.\n\n1356\n01:10:21,856 --> 01:10:24,396\nIf I can play just devil's advocate for a moment here.\n\n1357\n01:10:26,116 --> 01:10:29,016\nIf we're building two things at once instead of one,\n\n1358\n01:10:29,956 --> 01:10:30,736\nis there\n\n1359\n01:10:31,876 --> 01:10:33,396\nplenty of contractor\n\n1360\n01:10:34,196 --> 01:10:36,545\ncapacity for doing this? I\n\n1361\n01:10:37,356 --> 01:10:39,936\nlook at people building subdivisions,\n\n1362\n01:10:39,976 --> 01:10:43,616\nPonderosa Ridge. They were sort of\n\n1363\n01:10:43,636 --> 01:10:47,616\nphasing that, I think, as much as anything to manage\n\n1364\n01:10:47,776 --> 01:10:51,556\nstaff, employee costs, and so on.\n\n1365\n01:10:52,316 --> 01:10:53,686\nI'm just curious,\n\n1366\n01:10:54,616 --> 01:10:58,246\nwe're not going to run into a case that we've got a limited pool of\n\n1367\n01:10:58,276 --> 01:11:00,976\nbuilders who can take on both of these at once.\n\n1368\n01:11:00,996 --> 01:11:01,256\nYeah.\n\n1369\n01:11:01,296 --> 01:11:05,036\nThat we're going to risk inflating a cost because of\n\n1370\n01:11:05,116 --> 01:11:06,436\na small bidder pool.\n\n1371\n01:11:06,556 --> 01:11:09,976\nRight. I can't tell you what it'll be like in 2029-\n\n1372\n01:11:10,096 --> 01:11:10,416\nSure\n\n1373\n01:11:10,436 --> 01:11:14,406\n... when these projects will bid. If you were to ask me today, I'd\n\n1374\n01:11:14,436 --> 01:11:18,376\npoint you to the number of phone calls I get from contractors right now asking\n\n1375\n01:11:18,396 --> 01:11:19,616\nme what I'm working on.\n\n1376\n01:11:19,656 --> 01:11:19,856\nMm-hmm.\n\n1377\n01:11:20,556 --> 01:11:21,896\nThere's a lot of\n\n1378\n01:11:22,836 --> 01:11:26,616\ncapacity, if I could buy a term, or panic, in the\n\n1379\n01:11:26,676 --> 01:11:29,355\ncontracting marketplace looking for sizable projects.\n\n1380\n01:11:29,795 --> 01:11:31,795\nThere's not a lot going on in the state right now.\n\n1381\n01:11:32,386 --> 01:11:35,656\nWe've finished some really big work, obviously the Portland Airport being one of\n\n1382\n01:11:35,696 --> 01:11:37,236\nthose projects.\n\n1383\n01:11:38,196 --> 01:11:38,516\nBut the\n\n1384\n01:11:40,136 --> 01:11:43,586\nlarger construction firms that would work on a project like this, or\n\n1385\n01:11:43,716 --> 01:11:44,796\neven one of them,\n\n1386\n01:11:45,856 --> 01:11:46,956\nthey're all looking for work.\n\n1387\n01:11:48,376 --> 01:11:48,896\nMm-hmm.\n\n1388\n01:11:50,056 --> 01:11:53,656\nThe other things you can start to look at are the trajectory of school\n\n1389\n01:11:53,696 --> 01:11:55,796\nbonds. Usually those things go in waves.\n\n1390\n01:11:57,316 --> 01:12:01,006\nThere's not a lot of housing being built right now, either\n\n1391\n01:12:01,096 --> 01:12:05,076\nmarket rate or affordable. Affordable is really mostly what's being built, but not\n\n1392\n01:12:05,176 --> 01:12:06,836\nlarge enough amounts.\n\n1393\n01:12:07,416 --> 01:12:08,546\nMm-hmm.\n\n1394\n01:12:08,616 --> 01:12:11,776\nThere's not a lot of commercial offices being built because of the lags from the\n\n1395\n01:12:11,816 --> 01:12:12,296\npandemic.\n\n1396\n01:12:12,596 --> 01:12:12,776\nMm-hmm.\n\n1397\n01:12:12,896 --> 01:12:16,836\nSo lots of the other traditional markets for construction are a little\n\n1398\n01:12:16,876 --> 01:12:17,276\nbit slow.\n\n1399\n01:12:17,656 --> 01:12:18,995\nMm-hmm. Okay.\n\n1400\n01:12:19,016 --> 01:12:22,936\nI think the thing I'll add, because in prepping for this, we did talk to a lot\n\n1401\n01:12:22,976 --> 01:12:26,716\nof contractors. Contractors we talked to were so intrigued with the idea of\n\n1402\n01:12:26,816 --> 01:12:29,836\ndoing these together and all the efficiencies, as Ian had that slide\n\n1403\n01:12:29,856 --> 01:12:33,506\npreviously. But it's how they could stagger trades and work with the different\n\n1404\n01:12:33,536 --> 01:12:36,986\ntrades on the project. So there's a lot of advantages of\n\n1405\n01:12:37,076 --> 01:12:40,496\nhaving someone be putting windows on one side and then immediately roll to the\n\n1406\n01:12:40,556 --> 01:12:43,056\nother building and not have to leave for another job site.\n\n1407\n01:12:43,116 --> 01:12:46,996\nSo you have a lot of control over who's working and how they work together when you\n\n1408\n01:12:47,056 --> 01:12:47,636\ndo them together.\n\n1409\n01:12:49,556 --> 01:12:50,456\nWe have a virtual question?\n\n1410\n01:12:51,296 --> 01:12:54,696\nYeah. Councilor Bowden Allison has the line open right now.\n\n1411\n01:12:55,136 --> 01:12:55,956\nOh, good. Allison?\n\n1412\n01:12:56,756 --> 01:12:58,046\nHello, can you hear me okay?\n\n1413\n01:12:59,396 --> 01:12:59,956\nLoud and clear.\n\n1414\n01:13:00,476 --> 01:13:00,876\nThank you.\n\n1415\n01:13:02,056 --> 01:13:05,936\nSo my comment is more general, but I still wanted\n\n1416\n01:13:05,976 --> 01:13:08,476\nit to state it publicly.\n\n1417\n01:13:09,936 --> 01:13:13,196\nI am concerned about the land use\n\n1418\n01:13:13,296 --> 01:13:16,776\nconflict with the Downtown Vitality\n\n1419\n01:13:18,236 --> 01:13:21,636\nStrategy Task Force, their recommendations, and\n\n1420\n01:13:22,656 --> 01:13:23,876\nthe current\n\n1421\n01:13:25,076 --> 01:13:27,276\nlayout strategies that are being listed.\n\n1422\n01:13:27,316 --> 01:13:31,000\nAnd I know, again, recognizing that this topic is, more\n\n1423\n01:13:31,010 --> 01:13:33,540\ndirected at the funding mechanisms or\n\n1424\n01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,220\npairing buildings for\n\n1425\n01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,620\norder of construction. But I really do\n\n1426\n01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,860\nwant to keep going back towards that a\n\n1427\n01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,760\ninstitutional like control or civic inclusivity versus\n\n1428\n01:13:50,820 --> 01:13:53,180\ninstitutional control and secure\n\n1429\n01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,000\naccess needs are really not compatible\n\n1430\n01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,340\nwith the type of welcoming, open,\n\n1431\n01:14:01,460 --> 01:14:05,380\nshared, public, all of the buzzwords that we're looking for\n\n1432\n01:14:05,460 --> 01:14:09,280\nwith a revitalized civic campus. I just\n\n1433\n01:14:09,340 --> 01:14:11,700\ncan't see a world where\n\n1434\n01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,100\ndowntown can have the same\n\n1435\n01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:21,130\nwalkability, community gathering, social interaction, economic activity\n\n1436\n01:14:21,300 --> 01:14:25,260\nwhen there all of these civic structures and there's a law\n\n1437\n01:14:25,300 --> 01:14:27,400\nenforcement center directly across from it.\n\n1438\n01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:31,300\nI think it makes it a really hard\n\n1439\n01:14:31,420 --> 01:14:35,410\nsell to community members. And in addition to all\n\n1440\n01:14:35,420 --> 01:14:39,300\nof the other barriers that were carefully mentioned in what it\n\n1441\n01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,160\ntakes to get the community on board with a large capital\n\n1442\n01:14:43,180 --> 01:14:46,720\nproject that will likely require bond and voter approval.\n\n1443\n01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,920\nSo I want to bring that back to our conversation\n\n1444\n01:14:50,020 --> 01:14:50,940\nof\n\n1445\n01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,780\nthinking about how this land use is or is not compatible with the\n\n1446\n01:14:55,820 --> 01:14:59,390\nrecommendations from the task force, and how that\n\n1447\n01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:02,980\nwill look to voters who may or may not have to appro-- or\n\n1448\n01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:07,080\nwill have to approve if a bond is chosen as a funding\n\n1449\n01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:07,700\nmechanism.\n\n1450\n01:15:13,420 --> 01:15:14,460\nYeah. Alison,\n\n1451\n01:15:15,380 --> 01:15:19,080\nso you are concerned that having the police station\n\n1452\n01:15:19,140 --> 01:15:22,580\nacross from a place where we're trying to engage\n\n1453\n01:15:23,180 --> 01:15:26,780\na wide variety of people coming in and out\n\n1454\n01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,170\nis going to create an essential barrier just by,\n\n1455\n01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:35,280\nno offense to our police, we have great police, just by the essence of\n\n1456\n01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,580\na law enforcement building is going to make some people uncomfortable to\n\n1457\n01:15:39,620 --> 01:15:43,280\ngo into the other space or come through that space.\n\n1458\n01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:45,500\nWe're a block away.\n\n1459\n01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:47,150\nI will-\n\n1460\n01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:47,850\nRight now\n\n1461\n01:15:47,850 --> 01:15:49,370\n... I will speak for myself,\n\n1462\n01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:54,440\nand just note that others have conveyed to me\n\n1463\n01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,420\ndirectly, but I'm not going to speak for every single person.\n\n1464\n01:15:57,480 --> 01:15:57,660\nBut\n\n1465\n01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,920\nI definitely would have a deep discomfort\n\n1466\n01:16:02,020 --> 01:16:05,460\nin using a plaza\n\n1467\n01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:09,250\nfor, or even the open amphitheater that was in one of the previous\n\n1468\n01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,790\ndesigns, I don't even know if it's on the table anymore.\n\n1469\n01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,460\nBut having performances and community gatherings and\n\n1470\n01:16:15,470 --> 01:16:19,430\neven a farmers market with a law enforcement center where people are\n\n1471\n01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:22,889\nhaving the worst days of their lives, to me, doesn't\n\n1472\n01:16:22,940 --> 01:16:24,000\nreally\n\n1473\n01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:28,120\nmeet the walkability, economic activity, community\n\n1474\n01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,760\ngathering, land use plans that the civic\n\n1475\n01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,800\ncampus improvements and Madison Avenue Corridor\n\n1476\n01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,669\nideas we're trying to promote. So I'm not\n\n1477\n01:16:39,700 --> 01:16:42,790\ntrying to detract this conversation too much from it, which is why I've been\n\n1478\n01:16:42,820 --> 01:16:46,680\nwaiting to say something, but I want to keep bringing\n\n1479\n01:16:46,740 --> 01:16:47,540\nthat forward.\n\n1480\n01:16:49,380 --> 01:16:50,620\nWell, I appreciate your-\n\n1481\n01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:54,760\nYou see things from a different kind of lens.\n\n1482\n01:16:54,780 --> 01:16:55,800\nI see you see things from\n\n1483\n01:16:56,940 --> 01:17:00,640\nwhere we want our police to be. I've\n\n1484\n01:17:00,700 --> 01:17:04,160\ngone through a couple of chiefs now, and everyone says we want community\n\n1485\n01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:04,780\npolicing.\n\n1486\n01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:04,870\nRight.\n\n1487\n01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:06,640\nWe want to be part of the community.\n\n1488\n01:17:06,700 --> 01:17:10,360\nWe want to be interacting with the community, not with the current law\n\n1489\n01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:12,660\nenforcement building that's this big stone-\n\n1490\n01:17:13,300 --> 01:17:13,900\nBig old bunker\n\n1491\n01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,020\n... imposing structure or bunker.\n\n1492\n01:17:16,540 --> 01:17:19,940\nAnd I see this as an opportunity to move towards that\n\n1493\n01:17:21,700 --> 01:17:25,310\nidea of being part of the community, not being something of intimidation or\n\n1494\n01:17:25,340 --> 01:17:25,760\nmisery.\n\n1495\n01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:26,860\nPublic facing.\n\n1496\n01:17:27,180 --> 01:17:28,400\nYeah.\n\n1497\n01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:32,240\nI think it was in social infrastructure book where they set up basketball\n\n1498\n01:17:32,380 --> 01:17:33,919\ncourts at the back of the police-\n\n1499\n01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:34,800\nMm-hmm\n\n1500\n01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,460\n... station, so there were trying to a more\n\n1501\n01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:42,300\ninteraction. Have it be more like a normal other\n\n1502\n01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,300\nhuman beings.\n\n1503\n01:17:44,260 --> 01:17:44,680\nYeah.\n\n1504\n01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,220\nSo I agree with you.\n\n1505\n01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,340\nNormal people at jobs.\n\n1506\n01:17:49,579 --> 01:17:50,420\nYeah. I mean,\n\n1507\n01:17:51,579 --> 01:17:55,060\nso yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's also,\n\n1508\n01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,360\ncorrect me if I'm wrong, but more the trend is towards that\n\n1509\n01:18:01,700 --> 01:18:03,940\ncommunity interactive.\n\n1510\n01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,820\nSo it's more relational rather than this barrier between you and the public, is\n\n1511\n01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:09,140\nthat...?\n\n1512\n01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,140\nThat's kind of also what I feel like we're trying to go towards as a government,\n\n1513\n01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:18,300\nas just the City of Corvallis is I walk in\n\n1514\n01:18:18,460 --> 01:18:21,460\nand people are shocked the mayor's there. They were shocked when I was a counselor.\n\n1515\n01:18:21,860 --> 01:18:25,280\nIt's like, we're normal people. We're part of the community, and we should operate\n\n1516\n01:18:25,300 --> 01:18:27,060\nas part of the community. And I think-\n\n1517\n01:18:27,380 --> 01:18:27,660\nMm-hmm\n\n1518\n01:18:27,700 --> 01:18:28,120\n... police-\n\n1519\n01:18:29,260 --> 01:18:29,880\nIs an extension\n\n1520\n01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:30,830\n... the city government,\n\n1521\n01:18:32,100 --> 01:18:33,779\nour municipal court be part of that.\n\n1522\n01:18:34,020 --> 01:18:36,060\nIt's all part of the community and we all function together.\n\n1523\n01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:37,980\nIt's necessary.\n\n1524\n01:18:38,300 --> 01:18:38,589\nMm-hmm.\n\n1525\n01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:42,600\nIt's problem-oriented policing is, and community policing\n\n1526\n01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:43,720\nis, has\n\n1527\n01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:48,500\nfar, way ahead. We're way, I think\n\n1528\n01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,700\nour community is way ahead in that respect.\n\n1529\n01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,480\nAnd we've got the ideas about\n\n1530\n01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,500\npolice or a fear of police, that's\n\n1531\n01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,570\nnot anything we've ensured, of course, but\n\n1532\n01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,460\nto have a bunker like that, where's the front door on the-\n\n1533\n01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:07,140\nRight\n\n1534\n01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:08,840\n... police station right now? Who knows?\n\n1535\n01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:11,120\nSo that's-\n\n1536\n01:19:11,330 --> 01:19:14,060\nLet's try to bring us back on the topic today.\n\n1537\n01:19:14,100 --> 01:19:15,660\nAnd that's a good conversation, guys.\n\n1538\n01:19:16,050 --> 01:19:16,050\nSorry.\n\n1539\n01:19:16,060 --> 01:19:16,160\nNo.\n\n1540\n01:19:16,300 --> 01:19:19,520\nI'm looking at the clock, and I want to make sure that we have adequate time to\n\n1541\n01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:20,300\ndiscuss this.\n\n1542\n01:19:20,420 --> 01:19:20,820\nYeah.\n\n1543\n01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:22,840\nI do want to say, though,\n\n1544\n01:19:23,820 --> 01:19:26,960\nwhat we have now is a bunker, and trying to find the front door, I\n\n1545\n01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,700\nstruggled to find it.\n\n1546\n01:19:30,260 --> 01:19:31,840\nBut we\n\n1547\n01:19:33,060 --> 01:19:34,380\nare pretty privileged people.\n\n1548\n01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,460\nAnd I understand what Council Bowden is raising is\n\n1549\n01:19:40,540 --> 01:19:44,040\nnot everybody feels as comfortable as we do.\n\n1550\n01:19:44,100 --> 01:19:47,440\nAnd again, I do acknowledge that our police\n\n1551\n01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,640\ndo really good work. But the perception out there,\n\n1552\n01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:55,460\nand the perception is getting worse and worse and\n\n1553\n01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,480\nworse. I do think that that is going to come\n\n1554\n01:19:59,580 --> 01:20:01,960\nup in that design. Yeah, I think it's a valid point.\n\n1555\n01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:06,040\nAnd it's an absolute legitimate point, which we need to consider,\n\n1556\n01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,779\nespecially considering it's getting worse and worse and worse.\n\n1557\n01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,900\nSo now I feel bad that I cut you off. And we didn't move forward.\n\n1558\n01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:15,010\nSo if there's anything else that you wanted to point, you wanted to make there,\n\n1559\n01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,960\nnow's the time. Thank you for offering. No. Okay. All right.\n\n1560\n01:20:20,020 --> 01:20:20,820\nThen with that,\n\n1561\n01:20:22,660 --> 01:20:24,560\nyou guys have a lot of information.\n\n1562\n01:20:26,060 --> 01:20:26,360\nAnd\n\n1563\n01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,020\nhow do you get to a decision about which\n\n1564\n01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,700\nimplementation strategy you want to move forward on?\n\n1565\n01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:37,100\nThe city council has adopted the International Association of Public\n\n1566\n01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,780\nParticipation's planning guide to inform their engagement activities.\n\n1567\n01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,240\nGot the poster there on the wall right there.\n\n1568\n01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,920\nAnd within that guide is a sustainable decision framework to help\n\n1569\n01:20:47,980 --> 01:20:50,820\norganize information and inputs.\n\n1570\n01:20:50,900 --> 01:20:54,320\nI'm going to quote from the guide now, so I'm going to read from my page.\n\n1571\n01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:59,300\n\"The framework is especially helpful as a decision picks up\n\n1572\n01:20:59,380 --> 01:21:03,020\na political charge. As this occurs, interest usually\n\n1573\n01:21:03,140 --> 01:21:07,080\npulls into one of the four quadrants, yet decision-makers are\n\n1574\n01:21:07,100 --> 01:21:11,060\naccountable for balanced and lasting decisions that consider the whole\n\n1575\n01:21:11,140 --> 01:21:14,820\ncommunity in relation to budget, resources, environment, and\n\n1576\n01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:15,230\nequity.\n\n1577\n01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,520\nIn this case, the framework provides decision-makers with the means to\n\n1578\n01:21:19,660 --> 01:21:23,620\nbalance the input they receive to make the best long-term decision for\n\n1579\n01:21:23,660 --> 01:21:24,230\nthe community.\"\n\n1580\n01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,330\nSo the information that you've heard today, and frankly, over the life of the\n\n1581\n01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:32,150\nfacility investment work, are the data points to consider through\n\n1582\n01:21:32,180 --> 01:21:34,280\nthese framework lenses.\n\n1583\n01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:40,110\nWe pulled from the facility investment guiding principles that Ian mentioned at the\n\n1584\n01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:43,880\nbeginning and other policy direction, and we've compiled\n\n1585\n01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:48,020\na set of key areas for you to consider within\n\n1586\n01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,620\neach framework component as you work towards a decision.\n\n1587\n01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,560\nAnd then remember that for this exercise of the IAP2\n\n1588\n01:21:55,580 --> 01:21:59,540\nanalysis, you are comparing the options for\n\n1589\n01:21:59,620 --> 01:22:02,040\nimplementation strategies against each other.\n\n1590\n01:22:02,580 --> 01:22:04,300\nSo we've seen the four strategies, now\n\n1591\n01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,020\nthey compare against each other.\n\n1592\n01:22:09,540 --> 01:22:13,140\nSo let's take an example. Under technical is one of the arms.\n\n1593\n01:22:14,020 --> 01:22:17,200\nWe have construction efficiencies, which you heard a lot about today.\n\n1594\n01:22:18,140 --> 01:22:21,120\nSo how do four implementation strategies\n\n1595\n01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,520\ncompare on the ability to construct efficiently what the\n\n1596\n01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,440\ncouncil's direction is for the civic campus and police facility at this\n\n1597\n01:22:29,460 --> 01:22:29,980\npoint in time?\n\n1598\n01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,300\nSo you want to consider the construction management, the staging of materials,\n\n1599\n01:22:34,740 --> 01:22:38,380\nstaff collaboration opportunities, that parking garage design,\n\n1600\n01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,870\nand renovation of leased space to meet our service delivery\n\n1601\n01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:46,030\nneeds, and as we mentioned, especially important for police operations.\n\n1602\n01:22:47,820 --> 01:22:51,800\nThe facility investment guiding principles call for functional spaces\n\n1603\n01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,700\nthat are accessible, inclusive, and accommodate growth.\n\n1604\n01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,400\nSo how do the four options in your mind compare on achieving\n\n1605\n01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:00,480\nthese objectives?\n\n1606\n01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:03,500\nMoving to environment.\n\n1607\n01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,580\nA topic we've discussed in the past, and it came up again- This one ...\n\n1608\n01:23:08,620 --> 01:23:12,150\nis the subpar resiliency of City Hall and the LED, law\n\n1609\n01:23:12,150 --> 01:23:12,820\nenforcement.\n\n1610\n01:23:14,110 --> 01:23:17,800\nThe new buildings under consideration will have more robust\n\n1611\n01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,480\nresiliency than the current structures do.\n\n1612\n01:23:20,540 --> 01:23:24,380\nSo which implementation strategy or strategies meet the resiliency\n\n1613\n01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:25,820\nconcern that's been brought forward?\n\n1614\n01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,180\nThe Climate Action Plan, which is one of our guiding documents,\n\n1615\n01:23:31,100 --> 01:23:32,580\nin terms of policy direction,\n\n1616\n01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,920\nit calls for actions that will achieve other co-benefits in\n\n1617\n01:23:37,980 --> 01:23:41,940\naddition to greenhouse gas reductions, some of which are seen on\n\n1618\n01:23:42,140 --> 01:23:42,640\nthe list here.\n\n1619\n01:23:44,540 --> 01:23:47,940\nAnd then speaking of the big reveal on energy\n\n1620\n01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:51,670\nefficiency- Sorry ... I'm going to kick it over to Mark because I'm pouting that\n\n1621\n01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,440\nyou took my glory away. Are you ready for me to go to the next\n\n1622\n01:23:55,460 --> 01:23:59,280\nslide? Just a moment. Yeah. We've talked a lot about City\n\n1623\n01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,260\nHall, the space heaters, and leaky windows\n\n1624\n01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:07,020\nand all that sort of thing. And I really want to credit Scott\n\n1625\n01:24:07,060 --> 01:24:10,880\nDipod, our sustainability coordinator, and Abby Alexander, our innovation\n\n1626\n01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,900\nmanager. We actually have been able to dig some data, go through\n\n1627\n01:24:14,940 --> 01:24:18,740\nthe data, and look at what is our energy usage at the\n\n1628\n01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,260\nCity Hall building and compare that\n\n1629\n01:24:22,420 --> 01:24:24,580\nto some other facilities. So go ahead, Mary.\n\n1630\n01:24:26,180 --> 01:24:29,840\nSo here is a comparison of energy\n\n1631\n01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,320\nusage between the Kalapuya building on the left, that is the Benton\n\n1632\n01:24:33,420 --> 01:24:33,940\nCounty's\n\n1633\n01:24:34,820 --> 01:24:35,720\nnewly remodeled\n\n1634\n01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:38,800\nfacility out in Southwest Corvallis.\n\n1635\n01:24:40,060 --> 01:24:43,900\nYou have the law enforcement building and City Hall, and you can\n\n1636\n01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,460\nsee how much more energy City\n\n1637\n01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:51,080\nHall uses. That's on an annual basis, and you can see\n\n1638\n01:24:52,180 --> 01:24:54,540\nthe energy we're using at these different facilities.\n\n1639\n01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:58,280\nPurchased electricity, solar, and in the\n\n1640\n01:24:58,340 --> 01:25:00,600\nmagenta is natural gas.\n\n1641\n01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:05,260\nSo significantly more energy we're using on an annual basis at City\n\n1642\n01:25:05,340 --> 01:25:05,640\nHall.\n\n1643\n01:25:06,500 --> 01:25:10,319\nWhat's the square footage of each of those? Geographic segment.\n\n1644\n01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:15,120\nWhen you talk about square footage, it becomes even more dramatic.\n\n1645\n01:25:17,620 --> 01:25:20,780\nSo per square foot, the Kalapuya building- Per square foot ...\n\n1646\n01:25:20,980 --> 01:25:22,600\n33.7.\n\n1647\n01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:27,280\nCity Hall is 10X per square foot\n\n1648\n01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:31,000\nbecause the Kalapuya building is 2.7 times\n\n1649\n01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,840\nlarger than City Hall. Right.\n\n1650\n01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,500\nSo essentially, the power we use for just the City Hall\n\n1651\n01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:42,180\nbuilding would power the county's Kalapuya\n\n1652\n01:25:42,260 --> 01:25:46,204\nbuilding for 10 years.So that's\n\n1653\n01:25:46,224 --> 01:25:49,924\nsomething you can see a pretty dramatic impact we're having\n\n1654\n01:25:50,644 --> 01:25:52,064\non an ongoing basis.\n\n1655\n01:25:52,444 --> 01:25:54,544\nIt's those tall ceilings, drafty windows.\n\n1656\n01:25:54,584 --> 01:25:55,164\nRight. Yeah.\n\n1657\n01:25:55,944 --> 01:25:57,544\nIf I can just make a quick comment.\n\n1658\n01:25:58,324 --> 01:25:59,724\nSure.\n\n1659\n01:25:59,784 --> 01:26:02,664\nThis statistic is a standard energy use\n\n1660\n01:26:03,724 --> 01:26:06,684\nindex, and it's a standard metric for building efficiency.\n\n1661\n01:26:07,144 --> 01:26:08,404\nAnd one can look up\n\n1662\n01:26:09,304 --> 01:26:12,663\ntypical types of buildings, and they'll tell you here's about the range of what\n\n1663\n01:26:13,124 --> 01:26:16,504\nit should be. When people talk about a net zero energy building,\n\n1664\n01:26:17,184 --> 01:26:19,144\nthat EUI index is zero.\n\n1665\n01:26:19,464 --> 01:26:19,944\nMm-hmm.\n\n1666\n01:26:21,824 --> 01:26:24,984\nAs architects, we've done a couple of net zero buildings,\n\n1667\n01:26:25,564 --> 01:26:28,804\nothers in our sphere of work too.\n\n1668\n01:26:31,224 --> 01:26:34,944\nOkay. I'm going to go back to the IAP2 sustainable decision\n\n1669\n01:26:35,024 --> 01:26:38,244\nframework. Now we're talking about the economic piece.\n\n1670\n01:26:39,324 --> 01:26:43,064\nObviously, a major component of the economic lens is the positive\n\n1671\n01:26:43,084 --> 01:26:45,544\nconstruction, but it's not the only data point.\n\n1672\n01:26:46,284 --> 01:26:49,444\nAnother consideration is overall financial stewardship.\n\n1673\n01:26:50,364 --> 01:26:53,964\nAs we've heard today, any of the strategies will require staff to\n\n1674\n01:26:54,004 --> 01:26:55,884\nrelocate to a leased facility.\n\n1675\n01:26:56,744 --> 01:26:58,624\nThis means annual lease payments\n\n1676\n01:26:59,464 --> 01:27:03,004\nadded to the cost to renovate the space to meet the service delivery needs, either\n\n1677\n01:27:03,044 --> 01:27:05,304\nfrom civic campus staff, police staff, or both.\n\n1678\n01:27:06,304 --> 01:27:10,264\nSo this is an investment of city resources without a resulting tangible\n\n1679\n01:27:10,364 --> 01:27:13,784\nasset. There's no building at the end that the city owns, but we're putting\n\n1680\n01:27:15,044 --> 01:27:18,964\npotentially millions of dollars into that, a year into that\n\n1681\n01:27:19,244 --> 01:27:20,004\nleased facility.\n\n1682\n01:27:20,824 --> 01:27:24,584\nSo you want to consider how does each strategy support or doesn't\n\n1683\n01:27:24,624 --> 01:27:28,403\nsupport financial stewardship, along with recruiting and\n\n1684\n01:27:28,524 --> 01:27:31,104\nretention, which Mark mentioned at the beginning.\n\n1685\n01:27:33,764 --> 01:27:37,204\nAnd then final arm under this discussion is community benefit.\n\n1686\n01:27:38,504 --> 01:27:42,044\nAgain, as I mentioned, these topics, especially ones on this page,\n\n1687\n01:27:42,444 --> 01:27:46,244\nare objectives of the facility investment guiding principles and\n\n1688\n01:27:46,384 --> 01:27:48,164\nother city policy documents.\n\n1689\n01:27:49,104 --> 01:27:53,044\nThey also happen to align with the goals that are coming out of the Downtown\n\n1690\n01:27:53,184 --> 01:27:55,423\nVitality Strategy Task Force work.\n\n1691\n01:27:56,544 --> 01:28:00,004\nSo as you think about the different strategies for\n\n1692\n01:28:00,044 --> 01:28:00,904\nimplementation,\n\n1693\n01:28:01,924 --> 01:28:05,524\nhow do they further these objectives in support of what the community\n\n1694\n01:28:05,604 --> 01:28:06,104\nhas\n\n1695\n01:28:07,304 --> 01:28:10,504\nover the years and continues to say that it values?\n\n1696\n01:28:13,284 --> 01:28:14,644\nOkay, so we have the four\n\n1697\n01:28:15,824 --> 01:28:18,644\narms. We have topics that we would want to consider.\n\n1698\n01:28:20,204 --> 01:28:23,684\nWe look at the near-term results of the various implementation\n\n1699\n01:28:23,764 --> 01:28:25,864\nstrategies through these framework lenses,\n\n1700\n01:28:26,864 --> 01:28:28,564\nand these are the results that we came up with.\n\n1701\n01:28:29,764 --> 01:28:32,504\nSo in comparing strategies against each other,\n\n1702\n01:28:33,784 --> 01:28:37,764\nstrategy one has the best outcomes for achieving the\n\n1703\n01:28:37,804 --> 01:28:41,444\nobjectives in each of the components of the\n\n1704\n01:28:41,524 --> 01:28:45,164\nframework, and those objectives, again, coming from policy documents and the\n\n1705\n01:28:45,204 --> 01:28:45,934\nguiding principles.\n\n1706\n01:28:47,464 --> 01:28:51,384\nIn the middle two, within the strategies to build one facility now and the other\n\n1707\n01:28:51,424 --> 01:28:55,184\nlater, strategy two, building the police department first,\n\n1708\n01:28:55,924 --> 01:28:59,464\nranks better than strategy three on environmental,\n\n1709\n01:28:59,924 --> 01:29:03,504\nprimarily because of those resiliency gains you get from a robust\n\n1710\n01:29:03,704 --> 01:29:07,484\n911 and just the police department building in general, so\n\n1711\n01:29:07,564 --> 01:29:11,454\npolice can continue to operate, provide public services in an\n\n1712\n01:29:11,464 --> 01:29:12,084\nemergency.\n\n1713\n01:29:13,684 --> 01:29:15,764\nIt, however, ranks lower on economic.\n\n1714\n01:29:16,744 --> 01:29:20,264\nOne is because that building just costs more than Civic Campus.\n\n1715\n01:29:20,304 --> 01:29:23,544\nSo even in the near term, that building costs more.\n\n1716\n01:29:23,584 --> 01:29:27,084\nBut also, you have that long-term lease required for the Civic Campus\n\n1717\n01:29:27,244 --> 01:29:31,084\noptions that aren't included in the dollar amounts, but we know is an\n\n1718\n01:29:31,124 --> 01:29:33,764\nongoing cost to the city on an annual basis.\n\n1719\n01:29:35,564 --> 01:29:39,224\nStrategy three, the third one from the left, to build the Civic Campus\n\n1720\n01:29:39,324 --> 01:29:43,144\nfirst, ranks slightly better on the community benefit than strategy\n\n1721\n01:29:43,184 --> 01:29:47,104\ntwo because of these public gathering spaces that are incorporated in the building\n\n1722\n01:29:47,164 --> 01:29:48,464\ndesign and the plus.\n\n1723\n01:29:50,084 --> 01:29:51,414\nAnd strategy four,\n\n1724\n01:29:52,644 --> 01:29:55,304\nwhich is the abandoned downtown near term,\n\n1725\n01:29:56,384 --> 01:29:59,924\ndoes have some benefit on a technical\n\n1726\n01:29:59,944 --> 01:30:03,884\nperspective. Theoretically, all of your staff is located in the same\n\n1727\n01:30:03,944 --> 01:30:07,904\nleased facility, so those staff collaboration advantages\n\n1728\n01:30:08,004 --> 01:30:09,864\nare achieved in this\n\n1729\n01:30:10,984 --> 01:30:14,744\noption. And then for environmental, well, I think Mark's\n\n1730\n01:30:14,784 --> 01:30:18,214\ngraphics spoke for themselves. We're no longer occupying and\n\n1731\n01:30:18,244 --> 01:30:21,964\nfueling two buildings that have such poor-- Again, with the\n\n1732\n01:30:22,024 --> 01:30:25,394\nassumption and the hope that the leased facility that we find would\n\n1733\n01:30:25,444 --> 01:30:29,394\nbe a tighter envelope and a better performer on those\n\n1734\n01:30:29,404 --> 01:30:31,384\ngreenhouse gas kind of goals.\n\n1735\n01:30:35,964 --> 01:30:39,264\nAnd then so that concludes the second part of\n\n1736\n01:30:39,344 --> 01:30:43,193\nour conversation. So let me just go back to this slide and ask if there's any\n\n1737\n01:30:43,264 --> 01:30:46,144\nquestions on the IAP2 analysis.\n\n1738\n01:30:46,544 --> 01:30:50,504\nCould you repeat what the community benefit, the\n\n1739\n01:30:50,584 --> 01:30:52,444\nfourth item on community benefit?\n\n1740\n01:30:53,004 --> 01:30:55,074\nFirst was welcoming and very inclusive.\n\n1741\n01:30:55,144 --> 01:30:57,724\nSecond was community vision and\n\n1742\n01:30:57,804 --> 01:31:01,504\norganization. Third, equal spaces for community.\n\n1743\n01:31:01,544 --> 01:31:02,844\nWhat was the fourth? Downtown-\n\n1744\n01:31:03,024 --> 01:31:05,404\nDowntown vitality and a resilient Iowa.\n\n1745\n01:31:05,464 --> 01:31:05,824\nThanks.\n\n1746\n01:31:07,924 --> 01:31:09,764\nAnd again, you will have this information.\n\n1747\n01:31:10,464 --> 01:31:10,784\nYeah, I\n\n1748\n01:31:11,804 --> 01:31:12,524\nneed to put it down.\n\n1749\n01:31:14,904 --> 01:31:15,344\nThank you.\n\n1750\n01:31:16,244 --> 01:31:16,544\nThanks.\n\n1751\n01:31:16,924 --> 01:31:17,124\nOkay.\n\n1752\n01:31:18,164 --> 01:31:18,464\nOkay.\n\n1753\n01:31:19,704 --> 01:31:20,204\nOh, good.\n\n1754\n01:31:21,084 --> 01:31:23,024\nSo a lot of information.\n\n1755\n01:31:23,984 --> 01:31:26,744\nBig dollars, so maybe you're happy you're not making a decision today.\n\n1756\n01:31:28,684 --> 01:31:31,724\nSo then the next steps for us is to come back\n\n1757\n01:31:32,664 --> 01:31:34,374\nat your work session on May 7th, where\n\n1758\n01:31:35,444 --> 01:31:39,164\nwe will have done some work investigating the revenue\n\n1759\n01:31:39,224 --> 01:31:42,684\nsources that you asked us to investigate regarding facilities and\n\n1760\n01:31:42,844 --> 01:31:46,428\noperating costs. So we'll be back at a work session there,\n\n1761\n01:31:47,048 --> 01:31:50,148\nand then in June and maybe bleeding over into\n\n1762\n01:31:51,008 --> 01:31:54,648\nearly July, we'll start moving towards a\n\n1763\n01:31:54,688 --> 01:31:57,888\ndecision on the revenue side and facility side.\n\n1764\n01:31:57,948 --> 01:31:59,948\nThat's what we envision moving forward.\n\n1765\n01:32:00,008 --> 01:32:03,108\nAnd these are-- They're difficult\n\n1766\n01:32:03,148 --> 01:32:06,248\nchallenges to address. And I think that's why,\n\n1767\n01:32:07,028 --> 01:32:10,588\nagain, I bring my props. We've come here many times\n\n1768\n01:32:10,708 --> 01:32:11,168\nbefore,\n\n1769\n01:32:11,988 --> 01:32:15,788\nand people have just stepped away because they're challenging\n\n1770\n01:32:15,848 --> 01:32:16,228\nthings.\n\n1771\n01:32:18,048 --> 01:32:21,848\nBut I believe it's our responsibility to act\n\n1772\n01:32:21,908 --> 01:32:22,628\nresponsible,\n\n1773\n01:32:24,108 --> 01:32:24,568\nto\n\n1774\n01:32:25,468 --> 01:32:29,288\nbe good stewards of the organization that serves our community, and good\n\n1775\n01:32:29,368 --> 01:32:30,468\nstewards of\n\n1776\n01:32:31,608 --> 01:32:33,628\nthe resources from our community.\n\n1777\n01:32:33,968 --> 01:32:37,818\nSo with that, other general questions, or I'll turn it over to the\n\n1778\n01:32:37,868 --> 01:32:38,467\nmanager.\n\n1779\n01:32:39,468 --> 01:32:40,468\nAny other questions?\n\n1780\n01:32:42,988 --> 01:32:43,008\nNo.\n\n1781\n01:32:43,018 --> 01:32:43,208\nWell,\n\n1782\n01:32:45,308 --> 01:32:47,978\nI was going to say, for me, just based on what I see, it's like to me, the\n\n1783\n01:32:48,028 --> 01:32:48,868\ndecision's clear.\n\n1784\n01:32:49,268 --> 01:32:49,278\nMm-hmm.\n\n1785\n01:32:49,448 --> 01:32:52,128\nBut that's just me from a very data kind of\n\n1786\n01:32:52,288 --> 01:32:55,488\nmindset. So I look forward to our next conversation,\n\n1787\n01:32:56,948 --> 01:32:59,148\nand I appreciate the presentation and\n\n1788\n01:33:00,028 --> 01:33:00,928\nthe information.\n\n1789\n01:33:02,348 --> 01:33:02,968\nJohn?\n\n1790\n01:33:03,068 --> 01:33:03,648\nYeah, I think\n\n1791\n01:33:05,488 --> 01:33:06,788\nwhat's particularly striking\n\n1792\n01:33:08,908 --> 01:33:12,668\nis the-- Well, for me, the decision, the direction seems pretty clear as\n\n1793\n01:33:12,748 --> 01:33:13,808\nwell for a number of\n\n1794\n01:33:14,608 --> 01:33:15,698\nreasons. One is,\n\n1795\n01:33:17,168 --> 01:33:18,288\nin terms of total cost,\n\n1796\n01:33:19,128 --> 01:33:22,738\nit's going to be the cheapest solution, the best, the most cost-effective\n\n1797\n01:33:22,828 --> 01:33:23,347\nsolution.\n\n1798\n01:33:24,728 --> 01:33:28,288\nI think it does dovetail nicely with what's coming out of the Downtown\n\n1799\n01:33:28,348 --> 01:33:30,188\nVitality Strategy Task Force.\n\n1800\n01:33:31,848 --> 01:33:35,448\nI think it particularly demonstrates our commitment to downtown.\n\n1801\n01:33:37,948 --> 01:33:38,848\nAnd I think that\n\n1802\n01:33:39,868 --> 01:33:42,808\nto dive a little further into the cost side of things,\n\n1803\n01:33:43,628 --> 01:33:47,188\nI think what's particularly striking, again, I'll make the comment again.\n\n1804\n01:33:48,048 --> 01:33:48,308\nI think\n\n1805\n01:33:49,648 --> 01:33:53,627\nwe're used to living from this month to the next month or this year to the\n\n1806\n01:33:53,688 --> 01:33:57,648\nnext year. I think for a lot of folks thinking that, well, we'll just\n\n1807\n01:33:57,688 --> 01:34:00,428\ndelay it, seems like, well, it's a no-brainer.\n\n1808\n01:34:01,108 --> 01:34:03,368\nThat seems like a reasonable thing to do.\n\n1809\n01:34:04,208 --> 01:34:07,868\nYet the fact that construction costs going up on average\n\n1810\n01:34:08,528 --> 01:34:12,368\n6% per year, it doesn't take very many years before\n\n1811\n01:34:12,428 --> 01:34:13,328\nthat becomes a\n\n1812\n01:34:15,928 --> 01:34:19,547\nhurdle to overcome that we could have overcome many, many decades ago.\n\n1813\n01:34:20,768 --> 01:34:22,768\nSo I think that strikes me as well\n\n1814\n01:34:24,548 --> 01:34:25,288\nas\n\n1815\n01:34:27,288 --> 01:34:30,048\na real takeaway from this.\n\n1816\n01:34:31,068 --> 01:34:33,028\nI do think that I will,\n\n1817\n01:34:34,148 --> 01:34:37,748\nI think in the interest of completeness, I do want to\n\n1818\n01:34:37,808 --> 01:34:39,568\nhighlight something that Jim said,\n\n1819\n01:34:40,388 --> 01:34:43,908\nwhich is, there is that not very\n\n1820\n01:34:43,928 --> 01:34:47,848\ndesirable fifth option out there, which is to literally abandon\n\n1821\n01:34:47,868 --> 01:34:48,428\ndowntown,\n\n1822\n01:34:49,448 --> 01:34:52,248\nand I don't think anybody's wanting that to happen.\n\n1823\n01:34:53,368 --> 01:34:55,248\nBut if the answer is\n\n1824\n01:34:56,408 --> 01:34:56,748\nlet's\n\n1825\n01:34:57,868 --> 01:35:00,628\nfind absolute cheapest\n\n1826\n01:35:00,848 --> 01:35:04,168\nsolution, we can relocate\n\n1827\n01:35:05,548 --> 01:35:06,988\ncompletely out of downtown.\n\n1828\n01:35:07,828 --> 01:35:09,558\nI've said this before. I'm\n\n1829\n01:35:10,548 --> 01:35:13,788\nnot as supportive of it, so I'll say it, but I'm not supportive of it.\n\n1830\n01:35:14,268 --> 01:35:17,288\nWe can certainly buy a building off the HP campus, and then we can\n\n1831\n01:35:17,748 --> 01:35:21,708\nretrofit it, and good luck to the response time to Southtown for the\n\n1832\n01:35:22,288 --> 01:35:22,668\npolice\n\n1833\n01:35:23,988 --> 01:35:24,608\nresponse\n\n1834\n01:35:25,608 --> 01:35:29,488\nthere. And downtown vitality will take an enormous hit.\n\n1835\n01:35:29,588 --> 01:35:32,668\nThis is I don't think this is what we want for our downtown.\n\n1836\n01:35:33,128 --> 01:35:35,857\nSo there are cheaper, quote unquote, \"cheaper solutions\"-\n\n1837\n01:35:36,008 --> 01:35:36,197\nCheaper\n\n1838\n01:35:36,508 --> 01:35:40,008\n... in that we don't have to address this issue in the short term,\n\n1839\n01:35:40,668 --> 01:35:44,508\nbut more expensive in the long term because the impact will be felt for\n\n1840\n01:35:44,828 --> 01:35:45,568\ngenerations.\n\n1841\n01:35:45,648 --> 01:35:45,808\nMm-hmm.\n\n1842\n01:35:46,528 --> 01:35:46,828\nSo\n\n1843\n01:35:47,948 --> 01:35:51,868\nit's important for people to understand that\n\n1844\n01:35:51,908 --> 01:35:53,588\nnot only do we have\n\n1845\n01:35:54,888 --> 01:35:55,868\nthe opportunity\n\n1846\n01:35:57,148 --> 01:36:00,788\nto put a stake in the ground for the future that will last\n\n1847\n01:36:00,848 --> 01:36:01,578\ngenerations,\n\n1848\n01:36:02,808 --> 01:36:04,068\nwe also run the risk\n\n1849\n01:36:04,908 --> 01:36:08,568\nof creating a situation that is likely\n\n1850\n01:36:08,608 --> 01:36:11,468\nirrecoverable from for generations.\n\n1851\n01:36:11,768 --> 01:36:12,008\nMm-hmm.\n\n1852\n01:36:12,328 --> 01:36:15,148\nSo those are my observations. And as to\n\n1853\n01:36:16,828 --> 01:36:17,388\nthe topic\n\n1854\n01:36:17,428 --> 01:36:22,548\nthat\n\n1855\n01:36:23,248 --> 01:36:26,788\nwas discussed about police and safety downtown, I know one of the things coming out\n\n1856\n01:36:26,808 --> 01:36:30,478\nof the Downtown Vitality Strategy Task Force is people want to save downtown.\n\n1857\n01:36:31,128 --> 01:36:31,308\nMm-hmm.\n\n1858\n01:36:32,148 --> 01:36:32,908\nI think that\n\n1859\n01:36:35,248 --> 01:36:38,548\nI certainly understand there are folks who\n\n1860\n01:36:40,368 --> 01:36:43,188\nhave challenges in their interactions with the police department.\n\n1861\n01:36:43,388 --> 01:36:44,648\nIf I were the police chief,\n\n1862\n01:36:45,548 --> 01:36:47,268\nI would be highly\n\n1863\n01:36:49,128 --> 01:36:52,908\nfocused on effectiveness with the community,\n\n1864\n01:36:53,628 --> 01:36:57,618\nand if things were getting dramatically and drastically\n\n1865\n01:36:57,748 --> 01:36:58,508\nworse, I'd\n\n1866\n01:36:59,368 --> 01:37:03,018\ncertainly be all over that, and I certainly invite city manager and the\n\n1867\n01:37:03,108 --> 01:37:03,468\npolice\n\n1868\n01:37:04,828 --> 01:37:08,508\nto address any concerns that they have in that\n\n1869\n01:37:08,568 --> 01:37:10,068\nrealm. But I don't...\n\n1870\n01:37:12,208 --> 01:37:16,188\nCharlie made the comment that things are getting worse and worse, and I haven't\n\n1871\n01:37:16,248 --> 01:37:19,568\nseen any evidence to that.\n\n1872\n01:37:19,628 --> 01:37:20,168\nNot here.\n\n1873\n01:37:21,968 --> 01:37:24,268\nThe North Police Department is doing excellent.\n\n1874\n01:37:24,568 --> 01:37:28,228\nI want to make it really clear that I'm not talking about them, but the\n\n1875\n01:37:28,288 --> 01:37:31,228\npublic perception-\n\n1876\n01:37:31,388 --> 01:37:32,268\nNationally\n\n1877\n01:37:32,708 --> 01:37:33,428\n... nationally is not good.\n\n1878\n01:37:34,848 --> 01:37:35,828\nMaybe we can change that.\n\n1879\n01:37:36,168 --> 01:37:38,368\nYeah. I think you have an opportunity to change that here.\n\n1880\n01:37:38,508 --> 01:37:40,218\nYeah. We think we have\n\n1881\n01:37:41,208 --> 01:37:44,268\na great situation here, so I wouldn't want to\n\n1882\n01:37:46,048 --> 01:37:49,708\ntake the multiple discussions and years of discussion we've had about\n\n1883\n01:37:49,788 --> 01:37:53,508\nthis, and make a decision about the location of a\n\n1884\n01:37:53,548 --> 01:37:54,688\npolice department,\n\n1885\n01:37:56,468 --> 01:37:59,048\nbased on perception of what's happening in Asheville.\n\n1886\n01:37:59,108 --> 01:37:59,288\nMm-hmm.\n\n1887\n01:37:59,358 --> 01:37:59,568\nAnd so\n\n1888\n01:38:00,748 --> 01:38:03,688\nI'm very supportive of moving forward with an option.\n\n1889\n01:38:05,128 --> 01:38:09,028\nIf I could just push back a little bit on your first part of that comment, not on\n\n1890\n01:38:09,068 --> 01:38:09,888\nhow police are doing.\n\n1891\n01:38:10,198 --> 01:38:10,278\nMm-hmm.\n\n1892\n01:38:11,668 --> 01:38:15,448\nIn terms of that it would be cheaper to go someplace\n\n1893\n01:38:15,548 --> 01:38:19,408\nelse, and your example being HP, it's important to\n\n1894\n01:38:19,508 --> 01:38:22,368\nrecognize, I think, in that conversations...\n\n1895\n01:38:22,408 --> 01:38:25,678\nLike when someone hears it's cheaper, it's like, \"Oh, well then it's cheaper.\" But\n\n1896\n01:38:25,748 --> 01:38:28,277\nhow much cheaper? Or is it cheaper?\n\n1897\n01:38:28,308 --> 01:38:30,808\nWould be a question we would have to explore more.\n\n1898\n01:38:30,838 --> 01:38:30,838\nRight.\n\n1899\n01:38:30,868 --> 01:38:34,508\nThe buildings in HP were constructed at a period of\n\n1900\n01:38:34,568 --> 01:38:35,998\ntime that,\n\n1901\n01:38:37,008 --> 01:38:40,668\nat least in preliminary investigations or conversations,\n\n1902\n01:38:40,768 --> 01:38:44,388\ndon't seem to meet the seismic resiliency that we would need for a 911\n\n1903\n01:38:44,428 --> 01:38:44,948\nfacility.\n\n1904\n01:38:45,128 --> 01:38:45,258\nMm-hmm.\n\n1905\n01:38:45,368 --> 01:38:49,067\nAnd so even if we bought the building, are we basically\n\n1906\n01:38:49,448 --> 01:38:53,188\ntearing it down and constructing, at least for police, a new facility?\n\n1907\n01:38:54,108 --> 01:38:57,628\nSo that cheaper may be just a little bit nervous to have out there in\n\n1908\n01:38:57,688 --> 01:38:58,528\nthe world.\n\n1909\n01:38:58,728 --> 01:38:59,328\nOkay. Yeah.\n\n1910\n01:38:59,348 --> 01:39:00,018\nBecause we know that-\n\n1911\n01:39:00,018 --> 01:39:01,488\nThank you for that clarification.\n\n1912\n01:39:02,008 --> 01:39:05,418\nWhen I came up to Corvallis in 1995,\n\n1913\n01:39:06,448 --> 01:39:10,318\nI worked in the, eventually, the newest building on the HP campus,\n\n1914\n01:39:10,378 --> 01:39:11,588\nso that's 1995.\n\n1915\n01:39:12,428 --> 01:39:15,468\nSo I am aware of age of the buildings.\n\n1916\n01:39:15,968 --> 01:39:15,978\nYeah.\n\n1917\n01:39:16,028 --> 01:39:16,388\nSecond,\n\n1918\n01:39:17,828 --> 01:39:18,508\nI do think,\n\n1919\n01:39:19,568 --> 01:39:23,148\nyour point of we would have to quantify the cost is\n\n1920\n01:39:23,248 --> 01:39:26,908\nabsolutely... I second that 1,000%, and I'm sorry if I misspoke\n\n1921\n01:39:26,988 --> 01:39:27,828\nabout that.\n\n1922\n01:39:27,848 --> 01:39:28,018\nMm-hmm.\n\n1923\n01:39:28,348 --> 01:39:32,138\nI think what I meant to say, in terms of cheapest,\n\n1924\n01:39:32,508 --> 01:39:33,028\nis that\n\n1925\n01:39:34,128 --> 01:39:35,308\nwe could make\n\n1926\n01:39:36,168 --> 01:39:40,128\nthat decision that would force that to be the solution in the short\n\n1927\n01:39:40,228 --> 01:39:43,838\nterm, and it might, in the first year,\n\n1928\n01:39:44,648 --> 01:39:48,268\nsave money or cost less than thinking something large.\n\n1929\n01:39:48,348 --> 01:39:51,908\nBut it will have both economic and\n\n1930\n01:39:52,428 --> 01:39:56,388\nnon-economic costs in the long run that I would posit actually\n\n1931\n01:39:56,468 --> 01:39:59,028\noutweigh the cost of what we're looking at.\n\n1932\n01:39:59,188 --> 01:39:59,448\nMm-hmm.\n\n1933\n01:39:59,478 --> 01:39:59,478\nMm-hmm.\n\n1934\n01:39:59,508 --> 01:40:00,968\nSo thank you for the clarification.\n\n1935\n01:40:00,987 --> 01:40:01,128\nYeah.\n\n1936\n01:40:01,138 --> 01:40:03,368\nAnd that's a great example, if I may, is-\n\n1937\n01:40:03,508 --> 01:40:03,628\nYeah\n\n1938\n01:40:03,668 --> 01:40:04,828\n... the court building.\n\n1939\n01:40:06,248 --> 01:40:10,128\n25 years ago, we chose to lease that building, not buy it.\n\n1940\n01:40:10,848 --> 01:40:11,478\nWe end up paying,\n\n1941\n01:40:12,648 --> 01:40:16,088\nin today's dollars, $1.9 million in lease costs,\n\n1942\n01:40:16,588 --> 01:40:19,388\nand then we went out and bought the building for another 1.4 million.\n\n1943\n01:40:20,198 --> 01:40:22,428\nAnd that doesn't include all the money we had to pour into it,\n\n1944\n01:40:23,468 --> 01:40:25,828\nas far as maintenance and everything else.\n\n1945\n01:40:26,208 --> 01:40:28,868\nSo it seems, oh, it's just cheap, let's just lease it.\n\n1946\n01:40:29,468 --> 01:40:30,368\nBut in the end,\n\n1947\n01:40:32,288 --> 01:40:34,168\nthat all adds up.\n\n1948\n01:40:34,248 --> 01:40:37,808\nYeah. And I would like to add about just the focus on downtown and the impact\n\n1949\n01:40:38,888 --> 01:40:40,308\nour decisions have on downtown.\n\n1950\n01:40:41,348 --> 01:40:44,988\nWhen I was the former city councilor for downtown, and any time a\n\n1951\n01:40:45,108 --> 01:40:48,858\nbusiness closes doors and you get a vacant storefront, people said, \"Look,\n\n1952\n01:40:48,928 --> 01:40:49,668\ndowntown's dying.\"\n\n1953\n01:40:49,988 --> 01:40:50,148\nMm-hmm.\n\n1954\n01:40:50,308 --> 01:40:52,968\nAnd the same thing was said when the county vacated their building and left\n\n1955\n01:40:53,028 --> 01:40:53,548\ndowntown.\n\n1956\n01:40:53,958 --> 01:40:53,958\nMm-hmm.\n\n1957\n01:40:53,968 --> 01:40:56,488\nThey felt everybody was like, \"Look, downtown's going to die.\"\n\n1958\n01:40:56,628 --> 01:40:57,178\nMm-hmm.\n\n1959\n01:40:57,568 --> 01:40:58,228\nWhat are we going to do?\n\n1960\n01:40:59,768 --> 01:41:03,388\nWe have task forces that shows that there's a lot of interest in\n\n1961\n01:41:03,448 --> 01:41:04,508\ndowntown, and\n\n1962\n01:41:05,508 --> 01:41:09,098\nif we make a decision that removes city facilities from\n\n1963\n01:41:09,128 --> 01:41:09,648\ndowntown,\n\n1964\n01:41:11,108 --> 01:41:13,348\nI think it's the nail in the coffin.\n\n1965\n01:41:13,378 --> 01:41:13,378\nSure.\n\n1966\n01:41:13,408 --> 01:41:17,348\nThat's the understatement. Because at least from the community's\n\n1967\n01:41:17,408 --> 01:41:20,948\nperspective, is they're going to think we're abandoning what we say we care about,\n\n1968\n01:41:21,868 --> 01:41:24,468\nand that's not the direction I would be happy to go at all.\n\n1969\n01:41:24,528 --> 01:41:26,088\nSo remember that I do not support-\n\n1970\n01:41:26,168 --> 01:41:27,918\nI know.\n\n1971\n01:41:31,268 --> 01:41:32,788\nI do want to address that there\n\n1972\n01:41:33,628 --> 01:41:37,548\ncan be a perception that it's, let's just do a cheaper solution.\n\n1973\n01:41:37,608 --> 01:41:39,548\nAnd I think it can be cheaper in the moment,\n\n1974\n01:41:40,468 --> 01:41:43,268\nand much more costly in the long run.\n\n1975\n01:41:43,648 --> 01:41:43,868\nYeah.\n\n1976\n01:41:44,268 --> 01:41:45,348\nYeah. In so many ways.\n\n1977\n01:41:45,408 --> 01:41:45,768\nYeah.\n\n1978\n01:41:45,828 --> 01:41:46,508\nIn so many ways.\n\n1979\n01:41:46,588 --> 01:41:47,028\nThat was my point.\n\n1980\n01:41:47,088 --> 01:41:47,828\nNot just with money.\n\n1981\n01:41:48,128 --> 01:41:51,788\nWell, part of what we're talking about is the cost of failure to act.\n\n1982\n01:41:52,048 --> 01:41:52,348\nMm-hmm.\n\n1983\n01:41:52,548 --> 01:41:56,028\nThere's also the cost if you just fail.\n\n1984\n01:41:57,868 --> 01:42:01,168\nBecause is it going to be a case we're going to be making\n\n1985\n01:42:01,368 --> 01:42:02,748\nhowever we end up\n\n1986\n01:42:03,748 --> 01:42:07,717\narticulating that, but we're going to have a story to tell, and part of\n\n1987\n01:42:07,748 --> 01:42:11,648\nthe story is what are the costs of our\n\n1988\n01:42:11,668 --> 01:42:13,108\nfailure-\n\n1989\n01:42:13,188 --> 01:42:13,508\nYes\n\n1990\n01:42:13,518 --> 01:42:16,588\n... to maintain a presence downtown, to make use of\n\n1991\n01:42:16,648 --> 01:42:20,428\nthe opportunity that we have related to the\n\n1992\n01:42:21,048 --> 01:42:24,648\ncivic campus and downtown. There's some\n\n1993\n01:42:24,768 --> 01:42:27,528\naspects of that that we're only beginning to articulate.\n\n1994\n01:42:27,688 --> 01:42:28,128\nMm-hmm.\n\n1995\n01:42:28,928 --> 01:42:29,208\nWhich is\n\n1996\n01:42:30,388 --> 01:42:32,868\ndealing with is that we have\n\n1997\n01:42:33,768 --> 01:42:36,748\na downtown vitality plan\n\n1998\n01:42:37,348 --> 01:42:37,808\nthat's\n\n1999\n01:42:38,648 --> 01:42:40,548\ngetting close, but it's not there yet.\n\n2000\n01:42:41,528 --> 01:42:42,028\nAnd\n\n2001\n01:42:43,408 --> 01:42:47,248\nso that whole aspect of a civic campus and\n\n2002\n01:42:47,288 --> 01:42:49,508\nits relationship to a vital community\n\n2003\n01:42:50,428 --> 01:42:54,168\nis something that would, in some ways, happen as part of a design\n\n2004\n01:42:54,248 --> 01:42:58,048\nprocess, right? In order to undertake the design process, we\n\n2005\n01:42:58,108 --> 01:42:58,268\nhave\n\n2006\n01:42:59,748 --> 01:43:01,788\nmoney to spend and decisions to make.\n\n2007\n01:43:02,328 --> 01:43:04,688\nAnd so there's a wish we could put the\n\n2008\n01:43:05,628 --> 01:43:07,868\npoints a little bit because that's\n\n2009\n01:43:08,768 --> 01:43:10,568\npart of the story we're trying to tell.\n\n2010\n01:43:10,928 --> 01:43:14,248\nIs what can our downtown be, especially with\n\n2011\n01:43:15,228 --> 01:43:18,708\nthe civic campus, and a civic\n\n2012\n01:43:18,788 --> 01:43:20,588\ncampus that's reimagined\n\n2013\n01:43:21,568 --> 01:43:24,028\nas a place for our community to gather\n\n2014\n01:43:24,908 --> 01:43:28,788\nand for a place for our community to rub shoulders with the police department.\n\n2015\n01:43:28,828 --> 01:43:31,528\nIf you want to take a moment to try to reflect on the lack of it- ...\n\n2016\n01:43:32,188 --> 01:43:33,388\nfollowing through with these plans.\n\n2017\n01:43:33,488 --> 01:43:33,708\nYeah.\n\n2018\n01:43:33,928 --> 01:43:36,628\nHow much has that contributed to the current state of downtown?\n\n2019\n01:43:36,828 --> 01:43:37,108\nCorrect.\n\n2020\n01:43:37,488 --> 01:43:37,708\nYeah.\n\n2021\n01:43:37,758 --> 01:43:37,758\nYeah.\n\n2022\n01:43:38,268 --> 01:43:38,528\nYeah.\n\n2023\n01:43:38,808 --> 01:43:40,508\nAnd it's hard to\n\n2024\n01:43:41,808 --> 01:43:42,988\ncommunicate that vision\n\n2025\n01:43:43,848 --> 01:43:47,768\nuntil it's there. But I've said this before, you think about\n\n2026\n01:43:48,148 --> 01:43:52,128\nRiverfront Park, a lot of controversy over that.\n\n2027\n01:43:52,388 --> 01:43:52,688\nTotally.\n\n2028\n01:43:52,698 --> 01:43:55,268\nBut who here could imagine downtown Corvallis without it?\n\n2029\n01:43:55,428 --> 01:43:55,748\nYeah.\n\n2030\n01:43:55,988 --> 01:43:56,018\nRight.\n\n2031\n01:43:56,028 --> 01:43:56,748\nAnd so it's-\n\n2032\n01:43:58,656 --> 01:44:01,316\nI think this would be exactly the same.\n\n2033\n01:44:01,996 --> 01:44:05,816\nTo be fair, there was a lot of compromise that went into the final\n\n2034\n01:44:05,916 --> 01:44:09,716\ndesign on downtown, because that was my first thing that I was\n\n2035\n01:44:09,756 --> 01:44:10,696\npaying attention to-\n\n2036\n01:44:10,816 --> 01:44:10,986\nMm-hmm\n\n2037\n01:44:11,356 --> 01:44:14,415\n... when I moved, so what was happening in Corvallis. I was a new resident.\n\n2038\n01:44:15,016 --> 01:44:17,806\nAnd the original design is now what we ended up with.\n\n2039\n01:44:19,096 --> 01:44:20,136\nSo there was a lot-\n\n2040\n01:44:20,146 --> 01:44:22,226\nYou actually put it to a referendum, which I think-\n\n2041\n01:44:22,226 --> 01:44:24,116\nA lot of community engagement in that\n\n2042\n01:44:24,126 --> 01:44:25,416\n... failed.\n\n2043\n01:44:25,856 --> 01:44:29,795\nI just wanted to interject that there are members of the downtown\n\n2044\n01:44:29,916 --> 01:44:30,796\ntask force\n\n2045\n01:44:31,616 --> 01:44:33,636\nthat are just making the connection\n\n2046\n01:44:35,196 --> 01:44:39,176\nbetween the importance of having facilities downtown to the\n\n2047\n01:44:39,216 --> 01:44:43,176\nvitality of downtown. So we have a job to\n\n2048\n01:44:43,216 --> 01:44:46,716\ndo to properly\n\n2049\n01:44:46,756 --> 01:44:50,036\ncommunicate to the community the crucial\n\n2050\n01:44:51,316 --> 01:44:52,346\naspect of having\n\n2051\n01:44:53,296 --> 01:44:55,776\nstaff, police, community\n\n2052\n01:44:57,336 --> 01:44:58,216\nfocal point,\n\n2053\n01:44:59,956 --> 01:45:01,776\nand then do this thing.\n\n2054\n01:45:03,156 --> 01:45:06,366\nAs I think you said, how would it look to the community\n\n2055\n01:45:07,196 --> 01:45:07,436\nif\n\n2056\n01:45:09,296 --> 01:45:10,176\nwe fail at this?\n\n2057\n01:45:11,256 --> 01:45:14,376\nHow about we just give up and say, \"Oh well, we can't afford it.\n\n2058\n01:45:14,396 --> 01:45:18,216\nWe're going to move up to H Street.\" In the middle of trying to\n\n2059\n01:45:18,236 --> 01:45:19,736\nrevitalize downtown?\n\n2060\n01:45:22,116 --> 01:45:22,916\nSo anyway.\n\n2061\n01:45:23,056 --> 01:45:25,896\nWe're failing by not making the difficult decision.\n\n2062\n01:45:25,996 --> 01:45:29,876\nRight. So anyway, we have our work cut out for us from a messaging\n\n2063\n01:45:29,976 --> 01:45:33,736\nstandpoint, because we've been at the downtown task force and the\n\n2064\n01:45:33,796 --> 01:45:37,316\ncivic campus for how long, and people do not make the connection.\n\n2065\n01:45:38,916 --> 01:45:39,336\nClint.\n\n2066\n01:45:40,176 --> 01:45:40,396\nI was\n\n2067\n01:45:41,416 --> 01:45:44,696\nreally involved in the downtown riverfront stuff\n\n2068\n01:45:45,096 --> 01:45:46,496\nin more than one way,\n\n2069\n01:45:47,336 --> 01:45:51,176\nand there were opponents, and there were proponents, but what they had in\n\n2070\n01:45:51,236 --> 01:45:53,196\ncommon was that something was going to happen at the river.\n\n2071\n01:45:53,476 --> 01:45:53,996\nMm-hmm.\n\n2072\n01:45:54,396 --> 01:45:56,056\nAnd so the\n\n2073\n01:45:57,016 --> 01:46:00,276\nissue was around the details of what was going to happen, wasn't that\n\n2074\n01:46:00,356 --> 01:46:02,516\nsomething wasn't going to happen.\n\n2075\n01:46:02,576 --> 01:46:03,596\nAnd so\n\n2076\n01:46:04,736 --> 01:46:07,426\nat core, there was consensus about\n\n2077\n01:46:09,036 --> 01:46:12,716\nthe riverfront. It was time to transform it into a parking lot,\n\n2078\n01:46:13,416 --> 01:46:15,476\nbecause that's what it was, it was a gravel parking lot,\n\n2079\n01:46:16,656 --> 01:46:19,656\nto something else. And\n\n2080\n01:46:21,676 --> 01:46:25,336\nso part of our responsibility in all of this\n\n2081\n01:46:26,036 --> 01:46:29,096\nis going to be to articulate the vision\n\n2082\n01:46:29,136 --> 01:46:30,436\nthat\n\n2083\n01:46:31,716 --> 01:46:35,256\nthis is the future we want, even if we don't know the\n\n2084\n01:46:35,296 --> 01:46:37,916\ndetails yet, and even if there's going to be a lot of work to do\n\n2085\n01:46:38,756 --> 01:46:42,676\nto articulate in specifics what is this\n\n2086\n01:46:42,736 --> 01:46:46,516\ngoing to look like, how is it going to benefit the community and downtown.\n\n2087\n01:46:48,976 --> 01:46:52,936\nAnd so if we're going to do this, it's our job to build that\n\n2088\n01:46:52,956 --> 01:46:53,276\nconsensus.\n\n2089\n01:46:53,516 --> 01:46:54,716\nMm-hmm. Right.\n\n2090\n01:46:54,856 --> 01:46:57,776\nIn the same way that people started planning\n\n2091\n01:46:58,716 --> 01:47:02,496\na future riverfront that was going to be not gravel parking lots\n\n2092\n01:47:02,536 --> 01:47:02,716\nanyway.\n\n2093\n01:47:03,136 --> 01:47:06,616\nYeah. I think we need to decide what we want for camp.\n\n2094\n01:47:08,676 --> 01:47:10,696\nBut I'll give you an example.\n\n2095\n01:47:12,416 --> 01:47:16,016\nOur City Hall right now, some people love it, some people hate it,\n\n2096\n01:47:16,636 --> 01:47:17,796\njust by the looks of it.\n\n2097\n01:47:18,736 --> 01:47:22,646\nBut if you look at CHS, the old high school that's\n\n2098\n01:47:22,656 --> 01:47:26,516\ntorn down, I like the old school, but the new school,\n\n2099\n01:47:26,796 --> 01:47:28,136\nso much better.\n\n2100\n01:47:28,176 --> 01:47:28,366\nMm-hmm.\n\n2101\n01:47:29,016 --> 01:47:30,986\nWay better in terms of\n\n2102\n01:47:33,216 --> 01:47:34,325\nclassroom and\n\n2103\n01:47:35,176 --> 01:47:35,836\nenvironment,\n\n2104\n01:47:36,656 --> 01:47:36,936\nand-\n\n2105\n01:47:37,996 --> 01:47:39,076\nI index this class I\n\n2106\n01:47:39,136 --> 01:47:42,656\ndisagree.\n\n2107\n01:47:43,116 --> 01:47:46,746\nAnd you think about what can we do if we got rid of that\n\n2108\n01:47:49,276 --> 01:47:53,136\nbarracks, or whatever you want to call it, that the law enforcement\n\n2109\n01:47:53,196 --> 01:47:55,836\nbuilding is now. Guess what you could put there?\n\n2110\n01:47:56,296 --> 01:47:57,336\nYou could put-\n\n2111\n01:47:57,896 --> 01:47:57,906\nOver/under\n\n2112\n01:47:57,906 --> 01:48:01,356\n... you could put all kinds\n\n2113\n01:48:01,436 --> 01:48:05,336\nof beneficial things for our folks.\n\n2114\n01:48:06,216 --> 01:48:09,876\nWe keep the courthouse, we keep the other historic aspects of\n\n2115\n01:48:09,936 --> 01:48:10,556\ndowntown.\n\n2116\n01:48:12,076 --> 01:48:12,316\nSo,\n\n2117\n01:48:13,476 --> 01:48:17,296\nat first I thought, there's a lot of pushback\n\n2118\n01:48:17,356 --> 01:48:17,676\nabout\n\n2119\n01:48:19,075 --> 01:48:21,276\nthe city hall, we should preserve it.\n\n2120\n01:48:21,356 --> 01:48:25,216\nBut, the earthquake that's coming around, I don't know, the PBS\n\n2121\n01:48:26,216 --> 01:48:27,336\nspecial, the\n\n2122\n01:48:28,776 --> 01:48:29,956\nlatest special on\n\n2123\n01:48:31,356 --> 01:48:31,576\nthe\n\n2124\n01:48:33,716 --> 01:48:35,296\nbig one.\n\n2125\n01:48:36,696 --> 01:48:40,416\n30, 35% chance in the next 50 years.\n\n2126\n01:48:40,696 --> 01:48:43,956\nSo if we don't do something now, we're going to end up-\n\n2127\n01:48:44,136 --> 01:48:44,936\nWe might be forced to.\n\n2128\n01:48:44,996 --> 01:48:45,576\nYeah.\n\n2129\n01:48:45,636 --> 01:48:45,916\nRight.\n\n2130\n01:48:46,336 --> 01:48:48,416\nYeah. We will not have\n\n2131\n01:48:50,076 --> 01:48:52,676\nthe facilities to continue with\n\n2132\n01:48:53,776 --> 01:48:54,796\noperating the city.\n\n2133\n01:48:55,616 --> 01:48:59,336\nSo we're not going to wait for the earthquake to have\n\n2134\n01:48:59,356 --> 01:49:01,536\nthis happen, but if you think\n\n2135\n01:49:02,336 --> 01:49:02,465\nit's\n\n2136\n01:49:03,736 --> 01:49:04,056\nbeen\n\n2137\n01:49:04,996 --> 01:49:07,516\n300 years since it last happened, and the average is\n\n2138\n01:49:08,496 --> 01:49:12,336\n250 years, and yeah. Take a look at that and\n\n2139\n01:49:12,536 --> 01:49:13,496\nbe scared.\n\n2140\n01:49:15,536 --> 01:49:18,976\nWe definitely have some decisions to make and some more information to\n\n2141\n01:49:19,016 --> 01:49:19,996\ncome. So-\n\n2142\n01:49:20,716 --> 01:49:20,976\nYes\n\n2143\n01:49:21,076 --> 01:49:21,076\n...\n\n2144\n01:49:22,756 --> 01:49:25,396\nmaybe we should move on here so we can get out of here at a reasonable time.\n\n2145\n01:49:25,996 --> 01:49:29,796\nBut again, I really appreciate the effort, the work, and I love the data.\n\n2146\n01:49:30,636 --> 01:49:31,436\nYeah.\n\n2147\n01:49:31,465 --> 01:49:31,465\nYeah.\n\n2148\n01:49:31,476 --> 01:49:31,816\nMm-hmm.\n\n2149\n01:49:32,976 --> 01:49:33,816\nIt can be shocking.\n\n2150\n01:49:34,376 --> 01:49:36,726\nYeah. It's similar to the person that said, also, \"I'd really like that.\"\n\n2151\n01:49:36,796 --> 01:49:38,356\nI'd like to see the money part of it.\n\n2152\n01:49:38,736 --> 01:49:39,536\nGood. I know.\n\n2153\n01:49:42,216 --> 01:49:42,956\nSo we'll move on now.\n\n2154\n01:49:44,056 --> 01:49:47,016\nCommunity comments, we did receive some written community comments in your email,\n\n2155\n01:49:47,776 --> 01:49:48,816\nso be sure to read that.\n\n2156\n01:49:51,056 --> 01:49:52,876\nAny questions on the three-month calendar?\n\n2157\n01:49:54,436 --> 01:49:54,916\nCharles,\n\n2158\n01:49:55,896 --> 01:49:57,196\nI submitted something-\n\n2159\n01:49:57,356 --> 01:49:57,696\nYeah\n\n2160\n01:49:57,716 --> 01:50:01,196\n... and Council of Impact also submitted something to get on the\n\n2161\n01:50:01,256 --> 01:50:05,016\nagenda. When are we actually going to have those conversations?\n\n2162\n01:50:05,256 --> 01:50:08,306\nI'll be looking to schedule those things at the end of January.\n\n2163\n01:50:09,116 --> 01:50:13,056\nWith those, I was specifically waiting for the last conversation we had\n\n2164\n01:50:13,096 --> 01:50:15,736\non Monday around how the process should be.\n\n2165\n01:50:16,256 --> 01:50:17,426\nSo those are coming.\n\n2166\n01:50:17,636 --> 01:50:21,476\nOkay. I didn't feel like we came to any sort of understanding of how the process\n\n2167\n01:50:21,516 --> 01:50:21,856\nwould be.\n\n2168\n01:50:21,956 --> 01:50:23,126\nNo. I think the only we're going to do at this point-\n\n2169\n01:50:23,136 --> 01:50:23,766\nHow I'm comfortable\n\n2170\n01:50:23,766 --> 01:50:25,196\n... is to move forward and do it.\n\n2171\n01:50:26,936 --> 01:50:29,936\nSo that will be happening. Anything else?\n\n2172\n01:50:32,796 --> 01:50:35,896\nAll right. I'll turn the mic back. I say we're adjourned. Thank you.\n",
      "text": "Quiet, please.\nAll right, everybody. My watch says it's four o'clock, so let's go ahead and call\nto order today's meeting of-- today's work session of the\nCorvallis City Council.\nOne big topic for today, so let's just get to it and take up all our time.\nOur facility investments, police and civic campus options.\nWhy don't you go ahead and hand it over to-\nI'm going to hand it back.\nOh, okay.\nYeah. I'll just kick it off with some comments just to\nprovide some\nperspective and background as we reenter this conversation,\nand then I'll turn it over\nto the smart people in the room, our architects and\nMary.\nAs we've talked\nmany times before, Corvallis has largely ignored our\nfacilities\nfor\ndecades.\nAnd we have seen some recent progress and wins in that\nwe remodeled Fire Station 2, we remodeled Fire Station 3 with\nthe federal ARPA funds, and in several months we'll be\nbreaking ground on park maintenance facilities.\nSo those certainly are exciting things.\nBut we continue to push our existing facilities\nto a breaking point, and there truly are\nimpacts to staff, operational impacts.\nYou see quite a few staff in the audience because\nthis is an issue that is\nvery important to all of us.\nAnd as I was\nthinking about that and what we've done over these decades, I really\ndo think Corvallis, in the way we've balanced our budget,\nwe've expanded services at the cost of not investing\nin our facilities.\nWe've\ncreated this false narrative or expectation that you don't need\nto invest in facilities. Where if we had been\nregularly investing, we would've been taking out bonds, we would have\ndebt,\nor we would've been putting money aside for these facilities,\nand yet we\nhaven't done that.\nAnd yet investing in facilities, civic facilities, is really the\nnorm. Most communities do this\non a regular basis.\nAnd you don't have to look very far.\nYou look to our neighbors in Albany.\nThey have what I'll call a newish city hall.\nIt's pushing 30 years now, but that's a purpose-built facility that is\nserving them well.\nThey have a brand-new police station, a brand-new\ndowntown fire station. They have two\nsatellite fire stations that are relatively new.\nThey purchased a building and repurposed it into an expanded library.\nSo again, you see that investment from our neighbors right there.\nYou go north of us,\nMonmouth, just a couple of years ago, opened up a brand-new\npurpose-built city hall.\nMonmouth's neighbor, Independence, years before Monmouth,\nbuilt a civic center that houses their city\nadministration and their police department.\nAnd then interestingly, my in-laws, they live out in Scio.\nI don't know if any of you have been to Scio.\nIt's a town of about 1,000 people,\nand I've had to be out there a little more frequently because my in-laws are\nrequiring a little more attention.\nAnd\nI've seen recently they are building from the ground up a purpose-built\ncity hall. So big or small, communities do\ninvest in their civic\nbuildings and facilities.\nAnd then if you think about even private companies, they are\nprofit-driven, so they're generally not going to do something if there's not a\nreturn on investment.\nAnd yet they do invest in not just factories, but other\nfacilities, office buildings and things, because they know there is a return on\ninvestment.\nThey know that in that it helps attract and\nretain high-quality staff, something certainly we want to\ndo. It creates an environment where there's collaboration,\nwhere the staff feel valued,\nwhere they feel safe, comfortable.\nAll those things leverage this return on investment of\neffectiveness, efficiency.\nSo I think we can take some notes from the private sector that there is\na return on these investments, truly,\nin how we operate.\nAnd nothing in our plans comes close to\na private company's campus or\nfacilities.\nBut I do think our staff should be able to expect that they can\ncome to work in a place that is safe,\nthat is comfortable,\nthat's functional,\nthat's equitable,\nso they feel valued, and that they can do their work well, that they can\ncollaborate and communicate well.\nSo well-functioning facilities are a foundational\naspect\nof a high-performing organization.\nAnd it's interesting, as\nover the years that I've been here, we've brought forward different master plans.\nYou think of a water master plan, the wastewater master plan,\nand I know council understands, the community understands we need to\ninvest in that infrastructure.\nAnd those are expensive. Water treatment plant, wastewater treatment plant.\nWe have to invest in those. Why? Because the community's growing, and\nso those facilities have to accommodate that\ngrowth. Environmental regulations\nchange, and so those plants need to\naccommodate that. There's a parallel.\nIt's directly the same with our buildings that house our staffAs our\ncommunity grows, we've added staff.\nWe need to accommodate those staff.\nAnd as the workforce evolves, we need to accommodate that\nnew environment\nwith the evolved staffing that we have.\nSo\nour buildings and facilities are no different than what we see in our\nwastewater treatment plants.\nAnd in fact,\nwe do have a facilities master plan.\nThis was adopted by the council in January of\n2022. It's our citywide facilities\nstrategy. So it is a master plan. And while\ntoday we're talking about the civic campus and the police facilities,\nthere are many more facilities yet that we need to address.\nAnd I want you to keep that in mind as we move forward in the months ahead, when\nwe start talking about funding and how we might\nfund facility projects. And then\nlastly, I think it's good to remind ourselves\nthat really at the heart, at the very beginning of our\nconversations and planning for civic campus and police station, was\nthis idea that this is not just about staff space, it's\nnot just about office space,\nbut it truly is an opportunity to make a community\nspace. It's really a\nonce in a lifetime opportunity to create something downtown.\nAnd I think it's exciting,\nkind of that refocus on downtown that the community has had and\nhow those conversations are developing, how projects are\nmoving forward.\nAnd I do want to remind everyone that\nthe beginning, the driver, the impetus for this focus on downtown\nwas actually when we brought civic campus and police station\nproject forward years ago. That's what really kind of kicked that\noff.\nSo I do think these projects specifically\ncan have a huge impact far outside\njust how they impact the way the city delivers services.\nAs we move forward today, we are not seeking a decision from\nthe council. And in fact, you wouldn't be able to provide a\nwell-reasoned or well-informed decision today because we haven't talked\nabout the revenue side, how we might pay for that, and what\nmight be possible.\nSo this really is to\nrespond to the resolution that the council passed to bring\nforward this option and\nimplications of moving forward in different ways with these facilities, together or\nseparate.\nSo that's what we'll work towards today and provide.\nAnd it's important to keep this information\nin mind as we move forward in May and June,\nand if it goes on a month or two beyond that, and we start\nmaking decisions about the facilities and the funding.\nThis is really foundational for that, for you, hopefully also\nfor the community too.\nSo with that, I'll be turning it over.\nI think Ian, you're going to kick us off.\nIan is going to lead us through a section.\nMary's going to talk about sustainable decision-making.\nI think the best way to handle this is hold your questions till\nIan's done, we'll open it up. Mary's done, and then once we're done with\neverything,\nhopefully we'll have some good conversation and general questions\nat the end.\nAny questions before I hand it over to Ian?\nOkay. Good.\nAll right.\nAnd Ian, you can introduce yourself and John.\nGood afternoon, council. Great to see many of you again.\nFor those of you who I haven't met before,\nmy name is Ian Gelber. I'm a partner with FFA Architecture and Interiors of\nPortland. We're a 70-year-old practice that has been in\npretty much that entire time.\nMost of our work is focused on public facilities like\nthe facilities that you're considering today.\nI'm joined here today with John Peet, who is our project manager.\nHe's here to make sure that I don't say anything that I wasn't supposed to say or\nto actually correct me if I get something wrong.\nFor most of my 28-year career, I have been focused\non public facilities. Within the last 10, my\nfocus has been helping\nmunicipalities like yours get from conversations like\ntoday to opening day.\nYeah.\nAnd all the various ways that those types of things happen.\nWith that, we're going to dive in.\nSo we have here. We've organized this in such a\nway to reset the stage. It's been\na little over a year or more since we've had a chance to, since\ncouncil made the decision about which vision that they wanted to move forward with.\nSo we want to reintroduce that, particularly for council members who weren't a part\nof those conversations.\nAnd then the bulk of the conversation is really about how these projects get\nimplemented. And we'll go through a series of scenarios and talk\nabout the pros and cons and what the risks might be to full\nimplementation. And then lastly, as Mark mentioned, then there's the\nconversation about what the upcoming process.\nSo resetting the stage.\nThis endeavor began in 2022 with the master\nplan that Mark just mentioned.\nAnd so within that\neffort, we had tasks of assessing the different\nfacilities that are in Corvallis's facility portfolio.\nAnd so we looked at a range of different thingsThis gets at\nwhat Mark talked about initially, which is that if the red\nline represents the population growth of the city\nof Corvallis\nup until, I think about\na little past 2020.\nExcuse me. And that the projected growth is to continue to\nabout 75,000 by 2040.\nThe dark blue represents the amount of square footage in your existing facilities.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd you start to see where that gap has\noccurred over time, where your facility investment, just\nfrom a space needs, hasn't kept up with your population growth.\nAnd then as that dashed line moves past, that is the\nexpected growth that's to happen.\nAnd so there's a risk that you sort of get deeper in the hole much quickly\nif you don't take the steps in some ways in the\nreasonable future.\nIn addition to looking at space needs, and we'll talk a little bit about space\nneeds again, we were responsible for doing ranking the\ncurrent facilities relative to their condition.\nAnd we've got four buckets. We have administrative, which\nincludes\ncity administration, city hall,\nHR, everything that is centered around the management of the\ncity. We have operations, that includes public works and parks\nmaintenance, and then we have public safety, which is police\nas well as fire. And then public-facing functions that are\nlibrary, the pool, theater,\nthey fall in that last.\nAt the bottom you see our sort of rating scale.\nEverything from poor, which is one or the dark red, to\ngreen, which is good.\nSo the dark red that you see in operations, that's parks maintenance.\nAnd if you've ever toured parks maintenance facility, I don't think that's\narguable.\nIf you look at public safety, that is the law enforcement building.\nAnd then the green aspects there, or there's a little bit red there\nalso for city hall.\nAnd then the green aspect is the investments that you've already done with the fire\nstation work that you've completed.\nSo this is a representation of those space needs with those\nsame buckets, the administrative, the operations, the public safety, and public\nfacing.\nThe light gray represents your current square footage.\nThe dark red represents to meet today's current needs,\nhow much more square footage you would need.\nAnd then to the bluish cyan color\nrepresents if you're projecting that growth out to\n2040, how much additional space you would need on top of what you have\ntoday.\nI will say that in this process of evaluation of the\ncity facilities, we looked at everything.\nWe went through 10 departments,\nand 17 facilities overall. John's going to correct me if I get that wrong.\nThanks.\nSure.\nAs part of that process, we established guiding principles\nfor the arc of what we're talking about, both in that facility\nassessment and moving forward into concept design.\nAll of those guiding principles came from the work that council\nhad already done in a series of policy documents.\nSo if you remember, we had a matrix that we presented last\ntime that showed\nall the things they were doing and how they tied back to specific policy decisions\nthe council had made over time. And so it just reinforced the\npriorities that council had,\nand we felt like it was a good way to kind of evaluate the steps that we were\ntaking.\nSo let's talk about the decision that council made back\nin November of 2024.\nWe presented multiple scenarios about how\nCivic Campus and the police station\ncould be configured around Madison.\nThese were really the sites that we focused on.\nThis was land that the city either owned or was in the process of owning,\nand we felt like this was the right place with\nother priorities around Madison Avenue.\nMost of the other versions that we talked about with you involved\nkeeping the existing city hall or not.\nThis was the ultimate vision that council decided, and I'm going to walk through\nquickly just the different categories,\nwhy they were ranked the way that they were.\nSo in the white bars that you see, anything on the left\nwhere it has a little negative were considered less desirable\nrelative to those guiding principles.\nAnything where it goes all the way to the right where the positive is,\nfelt like they were meeting guiding principles much better.\nSo\nbeginning with the first one, from a functional and operation standpoint,\nthese projects were bringing everybody together and consolidating them\naround\nthe potential plaza area on Madison.\nAnd that notion of synergies across\ncity departments was seen as a positive, versus being\ndistributed between the existing city hall, this\nbuilding.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nThanks.\nThis was seen as a way to\ncreate a higher degree of synergy and efficiency.\nCarbon impact.\nWe spent a lot of time talking about carbon.\nWhen you are\nevaluating carbon, you're looking at carbon from two perspectives.\nOne is the embodied carbon, which from an architectural standpoint, it's what\nit takes to make the building, to build the building.\nAnd then you're talking about operational carbon, which is how much it takes to\nrun the facility from an energy perspective.\nThe carbon impact here was less\nover-Largely because the embodied\ncarbon\nof the existing city hall was taken out of the equation.\nThe two points I would have around that are that\nthe facilities that we're proposing for\nwould be as low carbon as we can\npossibly make within the technology that we have now, which is\nusing things like mass timber, looking at other systems to look\nat decreasing the embodied carbon.\nOr sorry, from the beginning of the construction.\nThe operational carbon is about creating facilities that are incredibly\nefficient.\nI think Mary's going to share some graphs at the end of the presentation.\nWe'll talk about the actual energies- ... at city hall.\nAnd as an architect, I will tell you that it's staggering.\nI haven't seen a figure like that before.\nBut not to thunder,\nit is impressive.\nFrom a resiliency standpoint,\nwe're looking at as much resilience as we can.\nWhen you are doing a police station, you have to meet\na seismic level or an earthquake resistance level of what's called Level 4.\nThat means that in the event of an earthquake,\neveryone leaves the building during the earthquake, and the police can go right\nback in and continue operation because they need to.\nWith the civic campus,\nwe decided that we were going to aim for Level 3,\nwhich enabled everyone to get out of the building safely, which is required by\ncode. But the building is not a throwaway when you're done.\nSo that your investment in facility right now is one\nthat survives an earthquake, needs some repairs, but it's not we're\nscraping the site kind of condition.\nBy comparison, the current city hall has had seismic\nupgrades, but it is to a Level 2, which means that everybody gets out\nsafely, but the building is done. There's no repairing.\nSo keeping that in mind in terms of the overall resilience.\nAnd then resilience is not just about earthquake resistance, it's\nalso about energy performance and the opportunities for solar\npanels and battery systems and all of that.\nThis system gave the most opportunity for that.\nFinancial stewardship. There's a lot of ways to look at budget and\nfinancial stewardship. We took the approach of this is a way to\nmeet the goals that we had outlined for the least amount of long-term costs.\nAnd so of the options that we were presenting, this option actually comes with\nthis.\nFrom an accessibility standpoint, when we initially started the\nconcept design, looking at the\ncivic campus in particular, the existing city hall has\naccessibility challenges. It is designed in a very traditional manner, which means\nthe first floor is, if I remember correctly, about seven feet up.\nThat represents a pretty significant barrier for anybody who's in a wheelchair.\nCurrently, I'm sure as you all know, if you're using a wheelchair to go\ninto city hall, you have to go through the back door, find your way to an elevator,\nand come up midway through the building.\nIf city halls are intended to welcome every resident\nin the most\nthoughtful and compassionate, caring way, the existing building really\ndoesn't.\nIt's not to say that we didn't explore ways to solve that problem, but they came\nat significant expense or didn't really meet the intent.\nLastly, we talked about the potential community amenity that\nthese projects could create.\nAnd that's really about resident engagement.\nRight.\nAnd so the plaza existed in most of the options, and that's a\nfantastic opportunity for civic events, and it goes a long\nway towards bringing people downtown, which we'll talk about later when we talk\nabout downtown vitality. But this option\nallowed for the most potential public meeting\nspace within the civic campus lot.\nThe other options that we presented at the time were more about just\nadministration or trying to have public meeting space\nin the existing city hall only. Again, back to that notion of accessible.\nGo ahead and move forward at that point, unless there's any comments on it.\nOkay, so\nwe're going to take a little bit of time with this graphic.\nWe showed it to you back in November of 2024.\nBut this represents pretty much the fundamental challenge in\nterms of creating public facilities, or frankly, any\nfacility from a time and construction standpoint.\nSo what this graphic represents is the time scale\nfrom left to right, beginning from 1980 to\n2060.\nAnd what it is here to show you is the cost or impact of\nescalation, specifically construction escalation, over\ntime.\nSo we made a couple of modifications\nto this diagram since we last showed it to you.\nBefore I get to that, let me explain the diagram a little bit.\nFrom the orange dot in the middle that represents today, moving backward\nin time, the numbers that are provided are\nusing what is called the Engineer News Record.\nBasically, they track escalation over time.\nSo it's the actual escalation for construction that has\nhappened over that time. From the orange dot to\nthe right, that represents 6% of escalation\nper year, which is the current going rate.\nWhen you talk to a contractor or a construction estimator,\nthat's the number that they use when they're trying to figure out how much a\nproject is going to cost in the future.\nSo the change that we made is that when\nwe first presented this to you, we didn't know which option council was going to\nchoose. So we just picked a number, and it was 200 million, and that was\nour-Baseline number to show how the escalation\nis going to change. We've now changed the numbers to reflect\nthe option that we chose and the cost of what that said.\nThe other thing that we have done is that the\nlarge blue dot in the middle that says 2027,\nif we had started the project\nDecember of 2024, the bid date for\nconstruction would have been in 2027, and the cost of the\nproject would have been\n188. The\norange dot next to it represents the escalation that's\ngoing to happen for us to actually get the project if we started\ntoday. And I want to pause here just for a second.\nAnd Mark, we chose that 2029 number both from\nwhat the design team and construction team needs, but also potential\nfunding timeline. Is that correct?\nThat's correct.\nGreat.\nSo can I just clarify?\nYes, please.\nThe 2029, when Ian says starting today, he doesn't mean\nstarting construction today.\nYeah.\nHe means starting the process of full design to construction documents today.\nYes. Thanks, Mary. So the giant orange dot in the middle that says\ntoday is if we bid the project today, which of course we\ncan't because we need time to design.\nThe last thing I want to point out is the small three dots to the left\nrepresent the past opportunities that the city has\nhad to\ndo facilities\nmaster plans.\nI bring this every meeting.\nOther times, the city has stepped up to the line and stepped away.\nAnd so considering the amount of money that you're considering\nspending, that's how much that same money would've been back in\n1988.\n1988.\nSorry.\n2015.\n2015.\nThe last comment I'll make is that because escalation is moving\nat 6% per year, that means 5% per month.\nAnd so when you look at the lower orange dot for 2029, it's\n1.05 million per month of escalation passed.\nYou mean point.\nYeah, point. 0.5.\n0.5.\nsaid 5%. Sorry.\nThat would be very expensive.\nMy fault. It's 0.5. But it still represents a really\nsignificant number.\nCan I ask a question-\nYes, please\n... before we move on from that?\nYes.\nDo you feel like the current environment will make that number\nchange potentially? Or is this average over time through all these\ndifferent things, and so it's not likely to change much, or what?\nIt's a crystal ball.\nYeah.\nWhat I will tell you is that there was another graph that we didn't bring, I\napologize, but it shows the arc of the escalation\nfrom when the Engineering News-Record started calculating it from,\nI'm going to get this wrong, it's either 1912 or 1915. Right?\nAnd there's only two times that the number went negative.\nMm-hmm.\nOnce was the Great Recession\nand once was the Great Depression.\nMm-hmm.\nAs much as you want negative escalation for your project, there\nare other consequences-\nSure\n... on those scenarios.\nWe're in a moment of\nhigh volatility, right? And so I\nthink that\nwe're holding at 6%, but you can hit a\npocket of time relative to the market where you have spikes.\nOkay.\nA good example is the last five weeks or so,\nwith the energy volatility that we've had.\nThat's kind of what I was getting at.\nYes.\nYeah.\nRight. So there's always risk.\nOkay.\nThe fundamental rule is it never goes down.\nIt may flat line a little bit, but it doesn't go down.\nOkay.\nOkay.\nI want to pause for questions here because I think this is central to\na lot of the scenarios that we're talking about.\nIs there anything unclear about this overall idea about the escalation?\nYeah. Ian, just a quick question. The diagram you showed had\ncivic campus on the south side and police on the north, and we\ntalked about flipping that.\nMm-hmm.\nI suspect that does not materially affect the cost.\nBut is that a bad assumption or an okay one?\nNo, I think that's an okay assumption.\nOkay.\nwill get to some benefits. I guess it doesn't matter.\nYou sure?\nYeah. Thank you.\nOkay.\nYeah, the original plan that was presented to us was the other way around, and the\ncouncil said would it make more sense to have city hall on the south side for, I\nthink, for sun and\nenergy.\nFor sun and one of the options included a future\nparking garage, which we didn't go with.\nBut that was part of the rationale.\nOkay.\nMm-hmm. Other thoughts or questions? Yeah.\nThe thing not shown on this slide is the change in our\nability to pay for these things.\nSure.\nI'm\nwell aware of the fact that revenue\nhasn't gone up 6% a\nyear or so.\nRight.\nIt's separating farther.\nYeah.\nBut still, that's also not shown, and so that creates\nanother factor-\nYes\n... and it happens over time.\nYeah. And there's another point, and I'll bring it up later, is\nthat if the construction escalation is at\n6% average,\nconsumer price index is only at 2.8 or between three and\nfour normally. So public perception of what something\nshould cost is out of whack because the escalation is\nmoving at double the rate.\nFor construction.\nFor construction.\nYeah.\nAnd so when you talk about talking to the community about funding,\ninherently everyone thinks that construction costs way too much because it\ndoesn't match their day-to-day inflation over time.\nSo I'll bring that up\nagain.Okay. I'm going to go ahead and move\nforward. We can come back to this diagram if it's helpful.\nOkay. So we have a series of implementation strategies.\nAnd we're going to start with\nthe common impacts of the whole vision being\nfinished. And that is both the civic campus\nand the police station have been built on Madison with a plaza.\nAnd so when that is complete, whenever,\nwhatever sort of sequence that happens,\nwe've established the 100-year Madison Avenue vision to move a central civic hub\ndowntown. For those of you who don't know, it has been a 100-year\nvision to make Madison a major pedestrian thoroughfare\nfrom the gates of campus down to the river, and that the\ncivic heart of the city is located at the Mocade Lawn.\nAnd it's been in different spots, depending on which version of that plan has\nexisted, but this actually puts it square\non Madison. It also puts it at the gateway position to downtown.\nSo if someone's coming from campus to the river, the first thing that they hit when\nthey get to downtown is a civic idea.\nThe next is that the project contributes to downtown vitality, the daily activity\nfrom employees, visitors, and civic functions.\nWhen we talk about civic functions, you have residents who are coming to this\nfacility both to seek services, but also to use\nthe further down point of gathering spaces and\nattending civic events.\nWe maintain public safety and city administration at the center of the community.\nWe haven't relocated to some other location.\nOther communities have found cheaper land outside of city limits, or not\noutside city limits, but outside downtown cores.\nThis keeps it as sort of vital to downtown.\nWe've created opportunities for public gathering space and civic events in the\ndowntown core, which again, brings people here, who then when they finish\nwith that, they go shopping. They go down, grab a bite to eat, grab a cup of\ncoffee.\nOne thing that has happened between when we last spoke and now\nis that you've had the Downtown Vitality Strategic Task\nForce, and they have been looking at what the opportunities are\nto bring more vitality to downtown, and I think that's\nsomewhat timely because I believe these goals were just presented to you recently.\nWe've sort of gone back and looked at those and seen how these projects sort of\nplug into that.\nThey plug in directly because some of the goals are, \"Hey, let's do the\ncivic campus downtown, let's do the police station downtown.\"\nBut there are some that are less tangential or sorry, more tangential than\nothers.\nThere's a desire for an economic boost, right?\nKeeping the\nstaff downtown to be able to support businesses during lunch hours and things\nlike that, both for city hall staff and also\nfor the police. That's a direct economic\nboost.\nAlso when there are community events, that you're bringing more people\ndowntown, it's the same thing.\nOn that topic of economic boost, one of the other goals within the task\nforce is housing.\nMost housing, if not all housing, even\naffordable housing, is still driven primarily by private development.\nPrivate development is looking for spaces that are vital,\nthe old adage of location, location, location-\nMm.\nBecause it helps them keep their vacancy rates down.\nSo the more active downtown can be and more desirable to live, the more\nlikely you can encourage that investment to house.\nA lot of the downtown goals also focus\non quality of street experience. What happens with the infrastructure, how do\nwe improve the sidewalks, the curbs, lighting, all the things that go\nalong the street scene.\nThe opportunity to do the plaza first and set the standard\nthat the rest of the street might follow, I think is a pretty\ngreat opportunity.\nThe notion of social infrastructure.\nIf anyone was able to go to the\n2022 League of Oregon Cities keynote,\nEric Klinenberg, who is the author of \"Palaces for the People.\"\nMm.\nHe talks a lot about-\nOne of my favorite books.\nAbsolutely. It's great.\nHe talks a lot about\nhow we are slowly losing what we call social infrastructure,\nand it's really what we call third spaces. Mark, you and I have talked about that.\nIt's the spaces that people can interact where they don't have to spend a dime,\nright? Libraries are one of the last examples of that.\nHe makes a case in his book and in the keynote that he gave, that not\nonly are those things nice to have for a community, they're actually\ninherently needed within social\nresilience. So the example that the book starts out with is, as\nCarolyn would probably know, is when there is\na community crisis,\nthe communities that do the best are when the neighbors go next door and knock on\nit and make sure that that person's okay.\nWe need more opportunities for people to interact, to build relationships,\nand that fosters a stronger, more resilient community.\nPlaying back to our project, notion of the plaza,\nnotion of the public meeting spaces within City Hall, those are\nin direct support of that idea.\nLastly, sustainability, and it dovetails with the final bullet on the slide,\nis that\nthe goal for sustainable development downtown, the city has the\nopportunity to set the standard with what those projects can be,\nboth in terms of quality, energy efficiency, opportunities\nfor solar panels,\nand\njust reinforcing that message to private development that may happen in\ndowntownSo\nif those are common to the end result, these are common to\nwhat the implementation looks like, and if there\nare delays in time, because that's really what we're\nfocusing on. So as I mentioned before, we have construction cost\nescalation calculated at 6% per year or\n0.5 per\nmonth.\nTo get an apples to apples comparisons along these strategies,\nwe've used a time scale of eight years between projects if we\nphase.\nAnd we've done that for a couple of reasons.\nOne,\nmake sure I get this right.\nYou're probably not going to start the second project until\nyou've completed the first. So that's at minimum, that's three years there.\nYou're likely probably going to have another funding conversation once you've\ndone that. And so that's another year or two.\nAnd so all of a sudden you're five to 10 in your\npotential delay. And\nit's an arbitrary number to a certain degree.\nCouncil can decide to do whatever they want, but for the purposes of this\nevaluation, that's what we've used across the scale.\nDepending on how long you delay, there are other\nfactors that can jeopardize final implementation.\nLong delays can overlap council elections,\nright? You have an opportunity to work together, to get these projects\ndone.\nIt's not to say that a future council won't have similar objectives,\nbut it's a shift, it's a change, and it's ultimately a\nrisk to whether something gets fully implemented or not.\nMultiple funding asks can lead to voter fatigue depending on what the\nfunding solutions are. The more times that you go\nback, the more difficult the conversation can become.\nAnd I'll talk a little bit about that to get deeper into it.\nIn any of these options, City Hall staff need to relocate\nbecause fundamentally City Hall is being removed in the\noptions, and so City Hall staff has to go someplace while that's\nhappening. The cost and\nduration of the relocation is impacted by which option you choose.\nIn any option where the police station is delayed,\nresilient temporary facilities need to be created.\nLaw enforcement building is in really dire straits, and so\nmoving the police to a temporary facility has\npretty significant cost implications because a\ntemporary construction for police requires a lot more\ntechnical construction. They have things like holding cells and evidence\nmanagement that just is more expensive to build.\nLastly, over time, building and regulatory code changes\ncan occur, which can drive costs that you can't\nanticipate.\nWhen we were evaluating if both projects are moving\ntogether or they stagger, we've gone and talked to\ncontractors to understand what the impacts and\nefficiencies might be for the benefits going\ntogether or independently.\nSo if projects move together, a single project has less startup\nmobilization and shutdown costs.\nWhat that means is every time a project starts up, they need to bring in the job\ntrailer, they need to get crews on board.\nThere are costs inherent to that. And they're\nnot insignificant, but they're worth sort of mentioning.\nLarger projects have a greater economy of scale.\nYou get greater efficiencies over a larger project than if you have smaller\nor two smaller.\nThe process of procuring, managing\nsubcontractors on a job, if you only have to do it once, it's easier.\nIf you have a bigger project, you can move and stagger workflows around.\nA single project has greater efficiency, general contractor supervision,\ntemporary safety and security.\nThese are the day-to-day management of\nrelative to security, onsite management,\nI should say, because they're ability to share equipment, material staging.\nMaterial staging particular is one on an urban site we have to be pretty\nthoughtful about.\nAvoid duplicate costs for tapping utilities and doing street right of way work.\nIf you've completed one project and you've connected to the water main, and all of\na sudden you start the next one, you've got to go dig up the sidewalk and do it\nagain.\nAnd then lastly, there's only one disruption to the downtown\nneighborhood. Projects of these scales are going to impact traffic in\nthe area,\nand contractors are really great about managing noise, but there is\ndisruption overall.\nOkay, so we have four implementation strategies, and I'm going to\nwalk through the pros and cons of each.\nAnd then at the bottom is\ntotal cost.\nSo\nin the case where we move both projects together,\nCivic Campus staff return after a short-term lease.\nThey're out of downtown for the least amount of time.\nPolice are able to remain in the law enforcement building while construction is\ncompleted.\nYou address the two aging facilities simultaneously, reducing the\nlong-term facility risk of various issues.\nAllows shared infrastructure site development efficiencies, as we were just talking\nabout, between the two projects.\nImmediately implements downtown vitality task force goals.\nThe things that have been just brought to you can come to fruition much\nquicker and support downtown faster.\nAvoids future construction escalation, which is the topic we were just\ntalking about.\nAllows for a new approach to underground parking garage.\nI'll get to that in a second.\nAnd then this is the least total cost to implement.\nIf you look at the full picture of council vision, this is\nthe most cost-effective way to get it done.\nThe con here is that it is the highest initial\ncapital cost.\nSo parking. I mentioned here,\nallows for new\napproach to underground parking.\nSo initially, when we brought this vision to\ncouncil,\nbecause we were designing a public safety building, the biggest challenge to public\nsafety is they have a lot of vehicles, and they have to find a place to put them.\nIt can take significant amount of acreage, as John and I both know from working on\nlots of public safety buildings, to accommodate their fleets.\nAnd so when we designed the public safety building, initially, we ended up going\ntwo and a half to three floors below grade\nto create below grade parkings.\nThat's not the most expensive effort\noverall, and given how tight these sites are,\nit's pretty inefficient.\nOnce you start to ramp down and try to get multiple ramps going down, you eat up a\nlot of that square footage. When we realized that we\ncould potentially have both projects moving in at once, the opportunity is to\ndo a larger,\nshallower parking structure that goes all the way underneath Madison\nAvenue and ties Civic Campus together.\nYou wouldn't do this type of approach piece.\nIt would cause a level of complexity that would just drive costs up.\nAnd so the benefit here is that you likely have enough\nspace for the secure parking needs of public safety\nfolks.\nWe also have the potential for additional parking that is outside of that secure\nzone that could be separate. Whether that's for staff, for the public,\nthat's all for\nyou to determine.\nBut of this implementation option one,\nwe can sort of potentially pull off this scenario.\nAnd so, this is\nbasically what that looks like\nafter everything's done at once, and this is what you get.\nNow, a couple of caveats here.\nThis is not what the buildings will look like.\nWe haven't designed them yet. Any\ndesign of a public building, once the project moves forward, we work really\nhard to do community engagement, to engage the community in how these buildings\nshould look and feel.\nSo we needed to provide an idea or a vision to council and\nthe public just to get a sense of something.\nSo if you don't like the window pattern, it's okay.\nIt's not going to be this at the end of the day.\nBut what you do see here is that potential for these\ntwo projects working together with the plaza space in between\nand that further connection on Madison.\nThis is looking down towards the river and the OB development that's\nunderway right now.\nSo implementation strategy number two\nsays if you build the public station first, and you delay the Civic\nCampus. And again, we're talking of a delay just for the point of numbers of\neight.\nWhatever council decides at that point is up to you, but eight\nyears is the benchmark that we're doing this.\nThat's it.\nSo the benefits here is that you've dealt with the public safety building first,\nwhich is pretty critical relative to operational\neffectiveness for them and resilience for police services.\nYou have a lower initial capital investment because you're only building one of the\nbuildings.\nYou maintain at least one civic anchor while you're\ngetting these facility needs solved.\nIt allows the city to phase the major capital investments over time\nand improves emergency resilience through getting the 911 facility\ninto a new building sooner.\nThe cons are is that your civic vision is only half\nrealized.\nCity administration moves out of downtown for an\nundetermined amount of time, whether it's eight years or whatever the length of\ntime this ends up being. They're someplace else,\nand the community is going someplace else besides downtown during\nthat time period.\nThere's a risk that the full Civic Hub\nvision becomes more difficult to achieve because of the delay risks that we\ntalked about earlier. There's a missed opportunity for\nthe shared site efficiencies, construction efficiencies that we talked about.\nWe're now\ndelaying parts of the Downtown Vitality Task Force goals\nbecause we don't have that civic space that's going to\nencourage people to come in.\nAnd lastly,\nbecause city hall staff are\nin a lease condition\nsomeplace else, you have higher lease costs.\nSo the overall cost to implement this one total is\n$267 million. It's $116.6\nmillion for the police station when you first build it,\nbut then because of that escalation, Civic Campus now costs\n$151 million to build.\nCan I ask a detail question?\nYes, please.\nJust because I'm super curious.\nYeah.\nYou talk about this brilliant idea of having the garage go all the way across.\nSure.\nHow does building them one at a time affect that?\nBecause you can\nonly build half, right?\nYou don't really have that option anymore.\nOkay.\nYeah.I guess the add-on to that is the\nsecure parking need for the police wouldn't fit in a\none-story parking garage-\n... under the PD.\nRight.\nSo they wouldn't have their fleet needs meet K1.\nBut would it fit under the police and the plaza?\nIt could potentially.\nThat's something that would need to be studied.\nMm.\nI think the reality of\nthe plaza's function goes best with the Civic Campus.\nAnd so\neven if you, to your point, Council Elmes, if you built\ntwo-thirds of that parking, building that last third gets really challenging\nin sort of making those connections to it.\nBut you believe you would meet the parking\nrequirements for the police station?\nWe don't even see. We have to verify that.\nYeah.\nSo\nthe new public safety building is built, the street remains the\nsame.\nThe idea being that the remaining facilities, the buildings\nthat we're in, is no longer occupied by city staff.\nThey've now moved to another location.\nYou\nreally don't need these facilities anymore from a city\nstandpoint.\nWhether you decide to try and lease them or something, that's on you.\nBut having that capability to use that site as staging\nand not have to maintain these buildings anymore suggests that you might just\ntake them down. And so you have a\npartially realized vision.\nWell, and also just to add to that,\nour direction as staff is to construct\nthe council's direction, which is two buildings at some point in time.\nAnd so by taking the buildings down, you're setting the stage for that to be able\nto happen\nmore efficiently when the time comes for the second building to happen.\nAbsolutely.\nYeah.\nQuestion. Where does the staging occur in just building the police\nbuilding?\nWe could have it on the back, some on the backside of the law\nenforcement building or the police station building, but you've got your\ntransportation hub is there.\nIt can happen in the plaza, but you're going to be working on\nboth buildings and then do the plaza last.\nIt's a question for the contractor overall.\nYou're not going to obviously impact\n6th because of the train going by. You don't want to impact 5th because\nit's kind of a major through repair.\nIt's going to be a difficult site regardless in either option.\nI think there is advantage to stage-\nYes\n... on the right-hand side there.\nRight.\nRight where we're sitting here.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nGood point.\nYeah.\nBut then the question arises, if you phase it, where do\nyou stage for building the second half?\nRight.\nWhichever building it is that comes first.\nExactly. Now you have a problem.\nYeah. Basically, staging is going to be a problem whatever you do.\nWhichever .\nSo, implementation strategy three is you reverse\nthat. You do the Civic Campus first, and you\nphase the police station.\nIn this case,\nyou're reinforcing the civic presence and identity downtown.\nCivic staff return to downtown sooner.\nIt improves administration efficiency and service delivery for the city operations\nwhen they're downtown, closer to where people are.\nSupports downtown vitality through daily staff and visitor\nactivity. Again, more people coming to the building.\nEstablish as part of the Civic Campus framework,\nall of it, and then lower initial capital costs similar\nto phasing the police station.\nInitial\ncapital costs.\nInitial capital costs. Appreciate that.\nThe cons here is the police department relocates for an undetermined amount of\ntime. As we talked about, the longer portion of the building is very\nchallenging from a resilient standpoint.\nThe renovation of temporary public safety facility is expensive, as we mentioned.\nIf you try to move the police someplace temporarily, you're building a lot more\nexpensive construction to house them in that location.\nThe full civic hub vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of\nthe delay\nrisks that we talked about.\nAnd the civic vision remains incomplete for an extended period\nof time. Missed opportunity to strengthen community interaction with public\nsafety. So as architects who design public\nsafety facilities,\none of the things that we are often trying to do within municipal police\nstations is create opportunities for police to\ninteract with the public outside of a 911 call.\nThat is a huge part of relations between residents\nand public safety staff.\nAnd anything that we can do that encourages the\npolice to be walking to shops downtown to grab lunch-\nYeah\n... in between shifts, whatever it is that we can do to\nnormalize interactions there, we look for that opportunity wherever we\ncan. Because we've paired these two projects together, however they're\nimplemented, there's a lot of potential for that to happen here.\nQuestion. So this, the cost does include the renovation of the\ntemporary public-\nThis does not.\nDoes not.\nDoes not. This is just the cost to implement this vision.\nOkay.\nNone of these include any sort of lease, long-term or short-term.\nOkay. So I think it's an important point to\nrelocating\nadministrative staff temporarily is one cost X, yet\nrelocating police and building the supporting structure for that\nis multiple X.\nYes.\nOkay.\nSure.\nAre these numbers in\nthe second number on that, is there anyAttempt to\nadjust for inflation. If you assume, obviously money is\nnot going to be...\nInflation's going to happen.\nRight.\nSo in real dollar terms, when you build the second one,\n185 is-\nRight\n... is current dollars then, and you make no assumptions about\nactual inflation-\nNo\n... between now and then.\nSo the numbers below, the first number in the\nparentheses is what it costs to build the Civic Campus in\n2029.\nRight.\nRight. The second number, the 185.9, is the\ncost of building the police station in\n2037.\n37. Yeah.\nWhich that includes the escalation to 2037.\nIt includes the 6%\nescalation.\nGot it.\nBut it does not include any adjustment to that in the\ncost of-\nInflation\n... the 2, 3, 4% inflation.\nNo.\nSo that's, in a sense, both of these are sort of an\noverstatement\nof the real cost of money.\nI challenge that a little bit.\nI mean, Harry's-\nSaid it a little bit before, I'm not an economist, so I can't\nweigh too far into that. But ultimately, as I said before,\nyou're still outstripping the pace of what the consumer price is.\nRight.\nRight?\nSix. It's that 6% that we talked about before.\nYeah. But\njust for clarity,\nthe 185 includes the 6%. It doesn't\ninclude any adjustment to somebody looking\nat that, that inflation has done, is responsible for a piece\nof that, so to speak.\nThat's correct.\nOkay.\nRight.\nOkay.\nWell-\nAnd\nI recognize, you could make whatever assumption you wanted to make.\nInflation will be 3%, escalated will be 6%,\nand so the real increase is something-\nRight\n... but it's all funny money numbers between here and there.\nThe clarity there, Paul, is that\nif you're trying to gauge what somebody feels that number\nis, right?\nRight. And I'm not disputing that at all.\nRight.\nI'm just thinking for,\nin terms of actually paying for it in real dollars.\nThat is the cost that the contractor would say you're going\nto pay in 20-\nIn 20-\n2037.\n2037.\nYeah.\nTo build that police station.\nHeck.\nYeah. Okay.\nIn eight years, $185 million sounds cheap.\nThat'd be great news for us.\nI think\nmaybe a slightly different take on that.\nYeah.\nThe question for me is that,\nit would be nice to know, easy enough to\ncalculate, how much of the 185.9\nmillion was because of the delay.\nThe escalation.\nYeah, because I think the\ncommon intuition might be, we'll build one now, then\nbuild one later,\nand what's the diff?\nSure.\nAnd I think that's the point that I think is important is\nthat the cost of delay is costing a lot\nmore than you imagine.\nYes.\nYeah. And I think that it might be useful to highlight the-\nRight.\nSo in this strategy, the $185.9\namount is for the police station.\nI know. Right.\nSo go back to slide strategy two.\nThat's 116 million if you build it now.\nRight.\nSo the difference between 116, and I've already forgot the other number,\n185 is that.\nYeah. I mean, I don't know. It's clean subtraction, but it's fine.\nIt's close enough. I think that's the point I presume Chair's making.\nSo-\n... for us to get to those numbers,\nwe took the 116.6 and multiplied it times\n6% per year for eight years.\nRight.\nWhich got us to the\n185.9.\nYeah.\nAnd so likewise,\nin\nwhat we will call current, the police station would cost,\nI'm sorry, the Civic Campus would cost-\n94\n... and in the other scenario.\nIt would cost 151.\nSo like 40,\n60 something.\nYeah. She's roughly 60,000. 60 million,\nsorry.\n60 million.\nAll right. Well, yeah, I mean, it's 6% compounded by a year or so.\nIt's going to be a big deal.\nIt's going to be big.\nI just think it's good from a communication point of view, because there's an\nintuition that\nif\nI just wait, if I just stay things out, it's going to be better\nsomehow.\nMm-hmm.\nAs opposed to\nat 6% per year.\n8%. What was the number, six?\n6%.\n6%.\nFor eight years.\nOkay. For eight years.\nYeah, it's going to\nbe a significant\neffect every year you wait.\nDefinitely.\nYou can't just wait a year. Well, I mean, that's your point.\nWe can try to wait a year.\nRight.\nBut anyway, I think it's important to call that out.\nYeah. And I think you can look back at that graphic that we showed initially that\nshows if we had started in 2027, if we were getting in\n2027 for both projects at 188, if we're bidding in\n2029 for both projects, it's now 201.\nYeah.\nYeah. So\nbasically more than double.\nSo a lot to hear was we were talking about sort of a phased\napproach, that there's the cost implication on it, and then\nthere's the risk to whether or not you're going to have the full vision.\nRight.\nBecause in addition toYou're\nbuilding one, and then you're going to come back and you hopefully have a funding\nsource that the public supports. So as I mentioned\nwhen I started, this is over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time with\ncommunity engagement and working with communities to get to\nfunding these projects. And obviously I'm not the funding expert, but I'm helping\nwith messaging, communication, understanding of the\nprojects, and et cetera.\nAnd so when you're, and we're not saying this is your approach, but if you're\ngoing for a bond, which a lot of communities do,\nyou're always going to have people who are fantastic supporters of\nspecific items of any kind and they'll support everything.\nThen you have people who are the opposite end of that spectrum who will never pay\nfor anything.\nRight.\nAnd there's a certain percentage always of either end of that spectrum.\nIn the middle are the people who you're trying to communicate what the need\nis and is the cost reasonable.\nRight.\nWhat often is the trap\nis that people go out for a bond.\nThere's a number that's put out there, and it doesn't pass.\nAnd I'm not saying this would happen to you, but it's something that's relatively\ncommon. And the community says, \"That's just way too expensive.\"\nNow you go back out a year later, and you've somehow\naddressed the community's concern.\nYou've pared that number back, but you've lost a year of buying power.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so now you can't even build what that original vision is.\nWe've been working with another community that I won't mention.\nThey've tried four times to do a public safety book\nthat includes a fire station and a police. Four times.\nMm.\nFirst time was like $6 million. The last time they tried was\n$15 million. The version that we did with them was almost $32 million.\nWow.\nAnd there's other complications within.\nBut ultimately,\nevery time you have to go to the community, you're finding those ends of the\nspectrum. Trying to find the reasonable argument in the middle.\nAnd every time takes time, energy,\ninvestment of staff or council to\nmove these projects forward. So when you get to that\neight-year mark that we're talking about here, you're going to go through\nthat process again, and hopefully you've got the same\nsupport from the community that you did when you did it the first time.\nAnd so there's a risk then.\nOkay. So last scenario.\nSo the\ncampus will be built,\nand same sort of conversation about the\nexisting building and the\nOne more IP.\nAnd thank you.\nThose have been removed for the same reasons.\nSo the last strategy is that you do nothing right now,\nand\nyou delay both projects to whatever timeframe you\ndecide. But to keep things apples to apples, we said you delay eight\nyears. But really, it's unknown.\nYou don't know what might happen. So the\npros are you don't have any immediate out-of-pocket capital\nexpenditures.\nBut the cons are, the biggest one being the construction escalation.\nThe city abandons downtown for an undetermined amount of time.\nThe remodeling space for public safety is expensive, like we talked\nabout.\nYou now have somewhat of a misalignment with your Downtown Vitality Task\nForce goals.\nDoes not address the long-term facility management.\nAs a reminder, these were the priority projects.\nSo all the projects that needed to come behind these ones are also now\nfrozen.\nYou have loss of momentum. You've been working on\nthis topic for significant amount of time.\nOther citywide facility strategy projects are further delayed, just mentioned\nthat. This is the highest cost to implement of all the options\nbecause you're paying the most escalation over time.\nAnd then you have the highest long-term lease costs because you don't\nknow how long the city's going to have these lease costs.\nAll right.\nSo\nback to our graph, or diagram.\nWhat we've done is we've taken the\nscenario number one, which is you build everything.\nThat's the orange dot at the bottom.\nAssumes you're bidding the project in 2029.\nIt's $211 million.\nOption two, where you delay city campus, is the one, the dot that's furthest on the\nupper left, and that's at $268 million.\nThe option three, which is delay the police station,\nis in the middle, is $281 million. And\nthe last option is the\n$337 million. Again, assuming that you're waiting eight years, it should really\ngo down.\nAt that point, from 237 onwards,\nit's $20 million a year in escalation for\nthe cost of these projects. So going back to looking at our three blue\ndots on the left, you're kind of back to that scenario,\nwhere we talked about it, but we're going to pause it for some\nduration of time.\nI'll leave it here just for a\nminute if there's any questions.\nI was thinking you were leaving here for dramatic\neffect.\nThat's it.\nAll right. So in summary, we've given you four\ndifferentAvenues or implementation strategies for\nthis. We've talked about the pros and cons relative to that.\nThe only other thing that I might add here is that\nwhen I first had the opportunity to talk to you, the thing that we\nwere most potentially excited about these projects is the potential\ncatalyst that they could bring, particularly with what OB\nwas doing at the other end of Madison.\nAnd as an architect who works on civic buildings,\nI'm incredibly excited about the potential of either of these, or both of\nthese projects moving at once with the potential economic\ncatalyst that these projects moving with that credit growth.\nIt's not often that we often get to work on one project,\npolice station, city hall, or something along those lines.\nThe potential to do two projects that have synergy and relationship\ntogether,\nas Mark said, this is sort of once in a generational\nopportunity.\nHopefully this has given you enough information to think about.\nAnd I think this is where I hand it over to\nMary.\nWe've been asking questions all along, which is great.\nIs there any before we move to the next piece?\nWe will be able to see these slides for\nthe-\nYes.\nI don't have to watch the video.\nNo, we can email them out, but they'll be in the minutes.\nPaul,\nit makes sense. Paul, thank you.\nSure.\nI shouldn't have said all of it. There was one piece at the end that I didn't\nquite follow, the abandoned downtown.\nI feel like\nit appeared that the number\nassumed that the cost of\nbuilding facilities somewhere else-\nYeah\n... would be the same as the downtown project,\nbut it would be a fundamentally different project.\nYou're right. If we were not doing these projects and we're doing\nsomething else somewhere else, those are not the funds.\nAnd I'm not sure who's sitting behind me, but I think that's a terrible idea.\nI should be clear about that. I'm not suggesting\nthat we should go down that road, but I just want to make sure we're understanding\nthe picture.\nSure. Our purview, and I just want to reiterate it,\nis with the projects in front of us, what does it cost to\nimplement just them?\nYeah.\nAs the architects, we don't own these costs of what you do-\nYeah\n... outside of that picture.\nWell, and also a potential clarification, if I'm understanding your\nquestion or concern correctly,\nit's called abandoned downtown because we're leaving for a significant period of\ntime.\nOh, I see.\nThe goal would still be to eventually come back-\nGot it. Okay\n... and build it in this way.\nWell, then in theory, there's a fifth option, which is-\nWe own it\n... we're not going to have city facilities.\nRight.\nPaul, could we condemn the county building and move out there?\nYeah. I think obviously the thing that makes this at least a little bit more\nattractive than that is you'd be buying land if you-\nYeah\n... went forward. So there's additional costs to us.\nIf I can play just devil's advocate for a moment here.\nIf we're building two things at once instead of one,\nis there\nplenty of contractor\ncapacity for doing this? I\nlook at people building subdivisions,\nPonderosa Ridge. They were sort of\nphasing that, I think, as much as anything to manage\nstaff, employee costs, and so on.\nI'm just curious,\nwe're not going to run into a case that we've got a limited pool of\nbuilders who can take on both of these at once.\nYeah.\nThat we're going to risk inflating a cost because of\na small bidder pool.\nRight. I can't tell you what it'll be like in 2029-\nSure\n... when these projects will bid. If you were to ask me today, I'd\npoint you to the number of phone calls I get from contractors right now asking\nme what I'm working on.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's a lot of\ncapacity, if I could buy a term, or panic, in the\ncontracting marketplace looking for sizable projects.\nThere's not a lot going on in the state right now.\nWe've finished some really big work, obviously the Portland Airport being one of\nthose projects.\nBut the\nlarger construction firms that would work on a project like this, or\neven one of them,\nthey're all looking for work.\nMm-hmm.\nThe other things you can start to look at are the trajectory of school\nbonds. Usually those things go in waves.\nThere's not a lot of housing being built right now, either\nmarket rate or affordable. Affordable is really mostly what's being built, but not\nlarge enough amounts.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's not a lot of commercial offices being built because of the lags from the\npandemic.\nMm-hmm.\nSo lots of the other traditional markets for construction are a little\nbit slow.\nMm-hmm. Okay.\nI think the thing I'll add, because in prepping for this, we did talk to a lot\nof contractors. Contractors we talked to were so intrigued with the idea of\ndoing these together and all the efficiencies, as Ian had that slide\npreviously. But it's how they could stagger trades and work with the different\ntrades on the project. So there's a lot of advantages of\nhaving someone be putting windows on one side and then immediately roll to the\nother building and not have to leave for another job site.\nSo you have a lot of control over who's working and how they work together when you\ndo them together.\nWe have a virtual question?\nYeah. Councilor Bowden Allison has the line open right now.\nOh, good. Allison?\nHello, can you hear me okay?\nLoud and clear.\nThank you.\nSo my comment is more general, but I still wanted\nit to state it publicly.\nI am concerned about the land use\nconflict with the Downtown Vitality\nStrategy Task Force, their recommendations, and\nthe current\nlayout strategies that are being listed.\nAnd I know, again, recognizing that this topic is, more\ndirected at the funding mechanisms or\npairing buildings for\norder of construction. But I really do\nwant to keep going back towards that a\ninstitutional like control or civic inclusivity versus\ninstitutional control and secure\naccess needs are really not compatible\nwith the type of welcoming, open,\nshared, public, all of the buzzwords that we're looking for\nwith a revitalized civic campus. I just\ncan't see a world where\ndowntown can have the same\nwalkability, community gathering, social interaction, economic activity\nwhen there all of these civic structures and there's a law\nenforcement center directly across from it.\nI think it makes it a really hard\nsell to community members. And in addition to all\nof the other barriers that were carefully mentioned in what it\ntakes to get the community on board with a large capital\nproject that will likely require bond and voter approval.\nSo I want to bring that back to our conversation\nof\nthinking about how this land use is or is not compatible with the\nrecommendations from the task force, and how that\nwill look to voters who may or may not have to appro-- or\nwill have to approve if a bond is chosen as a funding\nmechanism.\nYeah. Alison,\nso you are concerned that having the police station\nacross from a place where we're trying to engage\na wide variety of people coming in and out\nis going to create an essential barrier just by,\nno offense to our police, we have great police, just by the essence of\na law enforcement building is going to make some people uncomfortable to\ngo into the other space or come through that space.\nWe're a block away.\nI will-\nRight now\n... I will speak for myself,\nand just note that others have conveyed to me\ndirectly, but I'm not going to speak for every single person.\nBut\nI definitely would have a deep discomfort\nin using a plaza\nfor, or even the open amphitheater that was in one of the previous\ndesigns, I don't even know if it's on the table anymore.\nBut having performances and community gatherings and\neven a farmers market with a law enforcement center where people are\nhaving the worst days of their lives, to me, doesn't\nreally\nmeet the walkability, economic activity, community\ngathering, land use plans that the civic\ncampus improvements and Madison Avenue Corridor\nideas we're trying to promote. So I'm not\ntrying to detract this conversation too much from it, which is why I've been\nwaiting to say something, but I want to keep bringing\nthat forward.\nWell, I appreciate your-\nYou see things from a different kind of lens.\nI see you see things from\nwhere we want our police to be. I've\ngone through a couple of chiefs now, and everyone says we want community\npolicing.\nRight.\nWe want to be part of the community.\nWe want to be interacting with the community, not with the current law\nenforcement building that's this big stone-\nBig old bunker\n... imposing structure or bunker.\nAnd I see this as an opportunity to move towards that\nidea of being part of the community, not being something of intimidation or\nmisery.\nPublic facing.\nYeah.\nI think it was in social infrastructure book where they set up basketball\ncourts at the back of the police-\nMm-hmm\n... station, so there were trying to a more\ninteraction. Have it be more like a normal other\nhuman beings.\nYeah.\nSo I agree with you.\nNormal people at jobs.\nYeah. I mean,\nso yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's also,\ncorrect me if I'm wrong, but more the trend is towards that\ncommunity interactive.\nSo it's more relational rather than this barrier between you and the public, is\nthat...?\nThat's kind of also what I feel like we're trying to go towards as a government,\nas just the City of Corvallis is I walk in\nand people are shocked the mayor's there. They were shocked when I was a counselor.\nIt's like, we're normal people. We're part of the community, and we should operate\nas part of the community. And I think-\nMm-hmm\n... police-\nIs an extension\n... the city government,\nour municipal court be part of that.\nIt's all part of the community and we all function together.\nIt's necessary.\nMm-hmm.\nIt's problem-oriented policing is, and community policing\nis, has\nfar, way ahead. We're way, I think\nour community is way ahead in that respect.\nAnd we've got the ideas about\npolice or a fear of police, that's\nnot anything we've ensured, of course, but\nto have a bunker like that, where's the front door on the-\nRight\n... police station right now? Who knows?\nSo that's-\nLet's try to bring us back on the topic today.\nAnd that's a good conversation, guys.\nSorry.\nNo.\nI'm looking at the clock, and I want to make sure that we have adequate time to\ndiscuss this.\nYeah.\nI do want to say, though,\nwhat we have now is a bunker, and trying to find the front door, I\nstruggled to find it.\nBut we\nare pretty privileged people.\nAnd I understand what Council Bowden is raising is\nnot everybody feels as comfortable as we do.\nAnd again, I do acknowledge that our police\ndo really good work. But the perception out there,\nand the perception is getting worse and worse and\nworse. I do think that that is going to come\nup in that design. Yeah, I think it's a valid point.\nAnd it's an absolute legitimate point, which we need to consider,\nespecially considering it's getting worse and worse and worse.\nSo now I feel bad that I cut you off. And we didn't move forward.\nSo if there's anything else that you wanted to point, you wanted to make there,\nnow's the time. Thank you for offering. No. Okay. All right.\nThen with that,\nyou guys have a lot of information.\nAnd\nhow do you get to a decision about which\nimplementation strategy you want to move forward on?\nThe city council has adopted the International Association of Public\nParticipation's planning guide to inform their engagement activities.\nGot the poster there on the wall right there.\nAnd within that guide is a sustainable decision framework to help\norganize information and inputs.\nI'm going to quote from the guide now, so I'm going to read from my page.\n\"The framework is especially helpful as a decision picks up\na political charge. As this occurs, interest usually\npulls into one of the four quadrants, yet decision-makers are\naccountable for balanced and lasting decisions that consider the whole\ncommunity in relation to budget, resources, environment, and\nequity.\nIn this case, the framework provides decision-makers with the means to\nbalance the input they receive to make the best long-term decision for\nthe community.\"\nSo the information that you've heard today, and frankly, over the life of the\nfacility investment work, are the data points to consider through\nthese framework lenses.\nWe pulled from the facility investment guiding principles that Ian mentioned at the\nbeginning and other policy direction, and we've compiled\na set of key areas for you to consider within\neach framework component as you work towards a decision.\nAnd then remember that for this exercise of the IAP2\nanalysis, you are comparing the options for\nimplementation strategies against each other.\nSo we've seen the four strategies, now\nthey compare against each other.\nSo let's take an example. Under technical is one of the arms.\nWe have construction efficiencies, which you heard a lot about today.\nSo how do four implementation strategies\ncompare on the ability to construct efficiently what the\ncouncil's direction is for the civic campus and police facility at this\npoint in time?\nSo you want to consider the construction management, the staging of materials,\nstaff collaboration opportunities, that parking garage design,\nand renovation of leased space to meet our service delivery\nneeds, and as we mentioned, especially important for police operations.\nThe facility investment guiding principles call for functional spaces\nthat are accessible, inclusive, and accommodate growth.\nSo how do the four options in your mind compare on achieving\nthese objectives?\nMoving to environment.\nA topic we've discussed in the past, and it came up again- This one ...\nis the subpar resiliency of City Hall and the LED, law\nenforcement.\nThe new buildings under consideration will have more robust\nresiliency than the current structures do.\nSo which implementation strategy or strategies meet the resiliency\nconcern that's been brought forward?\nThe Climate Action Plan, which is one of our guiding documents,\nin terms of policy direction,\nit calls for actions that will achieve other co-benefits in\naddition to greenhouse gas reductions, some of which are seen on\nthe list here.\nAnd then speaking of the big reveal on energy\nefficiency- Sorry ... I'm going to kick it over to Mark because I'm pouting that\nyou took my glory away. Are you ready for me to go to the next\nslide? Just a moment. Yeah. We've talked a lot about City\nHall, the space heaters, and leaky windows\nand all that sort of thing. And I really want to credit Scott\nDipod, our sustainability coordinator, and Abby Alexander, our innovation\nmanager. We actually have been able to dig some data, go through\nthe data, and look at what is our energy usage at the\nCity Hall building and compare that\nto some other facilities. So go ahead, Mary.\nSo here is a comparison of energy\nusage between the Kalapuya building on the left, that is the Benton\nCounty's\nnewly remodeled\nfacility out in Southwest Corvallis.\nYou have the law enforcement building and City Hall, and you can\nsee how much more energy City\nHall uses. That's on an annual basis, and you can see\nthe energy we're using at these different facilities.\nPurchased electricity, solar, and in the\nmagenta is natural gas.\nSo significantly more energy we're using on an annual basis at City\nHall.\nWhat's the square footage of each of those? Geographic segment.\nWhen you talk about square footage, it becomes even more dramatic.\nSo per square foot, the Kalapuya building- Per square foot ...\n33.7.\nCity Hall is 10X per square foot\nbecause the Kalapuya building is 2.7 times\nlarger than City Hall. Right.\nSo essentially, the power we use for just the City Hall\nbuilding would power the county's Kalapuya\nbuilding for 10 years.So that's\nsomething you can see a pretty dramatic impact we're having\non an ongoing basis.\nIt's those tall ceilings, drafty windows.\nRight. Yeah.\nIf I can just make a quick comment.\nSure.\nThis statistic is a standard energy use\nindex, and it's a standard metric for building efficiency.\nAnd one can look up\ntypical types of buildings, and they'll tell you here's about the range of what\nit should be. When people talk about a net zero energy building,\nthat EUI index is zero.\nMm-hmm.\nAs architects, we've done a couple of net zero buildings,\nothers in our sphere of work too.\nOkay. I'm going to go back to the IAP2 sustainable decision\nframework. Now we're talking about the economic piece.\nObviously, a major component of the economic lens is the positive\nconstruction, but it's not the only data point.\nAnother consideration is overall financial stewardship.\nAs we've heard today, any of the strategies will require staff to\nrelocate to a leased facility.\nThis means annual lease payments\nadded to the cost to renovate the space to meet the service delivery needs, either\nfrom civic campus staff, police staff, or both.\nSo this is an investment of city resources without a resulting tangible\nasset. There's no building at the end that the city owns, but we're putting\npotentially millions of dollars into that, a year into that\nleased facility.\nSo you want to consider how does each strategy support or doesn't\nsupport financial stewardship, along with recruiting and\nretention, which Mark mentioned at the beginning.\nAnd then final arm under this discussion is community benefit.\nAgain, as I mentioned, these topics, especially ones on this page,\nare objectives of the facility investment guiding principles and\nother city policy documents.\nThey also happen to align with the goals that are coming out of the Downtown\nVitality Strategy Task Force work.\nSo as you think about the different strategies for\nimplementation,\nhow do they further these objectives in support of what the community\nhas\nover the years and continues to say that it values?\nOkay, so we have the four\narms. We have topics that we would want to consider.\nWe look at the near-term results of the various implementation\nstrategies through these framework lenses,\nand these are the results that we came up with.\nSo in comparing strategies against each other,\nstrategy one has the best outcomes for achieving the\nobjectives in each of the components of the\nframework, and those objectives, again, coming from policy documents and the\nguiding principles.\nIn the middle two, within the strategies to build one facility now and the other\nlater, strategy two, building the police department first,\nranks better than strategy three on environmental,\nprimarily because of those resiliency gains you get from a robust\n911 and just the police department building in general, so\npolice can continue to operate, provide public services in an\nemergency.\nIt, however, ranks lower on economic.\nOne is because that building just costs more than Civic Campus.\nSo even in the near term, that building costs more.\nBut also, you have that long-term lease required for the Civic Campus\noptions that aren't included in the dollar amounts, but we know is an\nongoing cost to the city on an annual basis.\nStrategy three, the third one from the left, to build the Civic Campus\nfirst, ranks slightly better on the community benefit than strategy\ntwo because of these public gathering spaces that are incorporated in the building\ndesign and the plus.\nAnd strategy four,\nwhich is the abandoned downtown near term,\ndoes have some benefit on a technical\nperspective. Theoretically, all of your staff is located in the same\nleased facility, so those staff collaboration advantages\nare achieved in this\noption. And then for environmental, well, I think Mark's\ngraphics spoke for themselves. We're no longer occupying and\nfueling two buildings that have such poor-- Again, with the\nassumption and the hope that the leased facility that we find would\nbe a tighter envelope and a better performer on those\ngreenhouse gas kind of goals.\nAnd then so that concludes the second part of\nour conversation. So let me just go back to this slide and ask if there's any\nquestions on the IAP2 analysis.\nCould you repeat what the community benefit, the\nfourth item on community benefit?\nFirst was welcoming and very inclusive.\nSecond was community vision and\norganization. Third, equal spaces for community.\nWhat was the fourth? Downtown-\nDowntown vitality and a resilient Iowa.\nThanks.\nAnd again, you will have this information.\nYeah, I\nneed to put it down.\nThank you.\nThanks.\nOkay.\nOkay.\nOh, good.\nSo a lot of information.\nBig dollars, so maybe you're happy you're not making a decision today.\nSo then the next steps for us is to come back\nat your work session on May 7th, where\nwe will have done some work investigating the revenue\nsources that you asked us to investigate regarding facilities and\noperating costs. So we'll be back at a work session there,\nand then in June and maybe bleeding over into\nearly July, we'll start moving towards a\ndecision on the revenue side and facility side.\nThat's what we envision moving forward.\nAnd these are-- They're difficult\nchallenges to address. And I think that's why,\nagain, I bring my props. We've come here many times\nbefore,\nand people have just stepped away because they're challenging\nthings.\nBut I believe it's our responsibility to act\nresponsible,\nto\nbe good stewards of the organization that serves our community, and good\nstewards of\nthe resources from our community.\nSo with that, other general questions, or I'll turn it over to the\nmanager.\nAny other questions?\nNo.\nWell,\nI was going to say, for me, just based on what I see, it's like to me, the\ndecision's clear.\nMm-hmm.\nBut that's just me from a very data kind of\nmindset. So I look forward to our next conversation,\nand I appreciate the presentation and\nthe information.\nJohn?\nYeah, I think\nwhat's particularly striking\nis the-- Well, for me, the decision, the direction seems pretty clear as\nwell for a number of\nreasons. One is,\nin terms of total cost,\nit's going to be the cheapest solution, the best, the most cost-effective\nsolution.\nI think it does dovetail nicely with what's coming out of the Downtown\nVitality Strategy Task Force.\nI think it particularly demonstrates our commitment to downtown.\nAnd I think that\nto dive a little further into the cost side of things,\nI think what's particularly striking, again, I'll make the comment again.\nI think\nwe're used to living from this month to the next month or this year to the\nnext year. I think for a lot of folks thinking that, well, we'll just\ndelay it, seems like, well, it's a no-brainer.\nThat seems like a reasonable thing to do.\nYet the fact that construction costs going up on average\n6% per year, it doesn't take very many years before\nthat becomes a\nhurdle to overcome that we could have overcome many, many decades ago.\nSo I think that strikes me as well\nas\na real takeaway from this.\nI do think that I will,\nI think in the interest of completeness, I do want to\nhighlight something that Jim said,\nwhich is, there is that not very\ndesirable fifth option out there, which is to literally abandon\ndowntown,\nand I don't think anybody's wanting that to happen.\nBut if the answer is\nlet's\nfind absolute cheapest\nsolution, we can relocate\ncompletely out of downtown.\nI've said this before. I'm\nnot as supportive of it, so I'll say it, but I'm not supportive of it.\nWe can certainly buy a building off the HP campus, and then we can\nretrofit it, and good luck to the response time to Southtown for the\npolice\nresponse\nthere. And downtown vitality will take an enormous hit.\nThis is I don't think this is what we want for our downtown.\nSo there are cheaper, quote unquote, \"cheaper solutions\"-\nCheaper\n... in that we don't have to address this issue in the short term,\nbut more expensive in the long term because the impact will be felt for\ngenerations.\nMm-hmm.\nSo\nit's important for people to understand that\nnot only do we have\nthe opportunity\nto put a stake in the ground for the future that will last\ngenerations,\nwe also run the risk\nof creating a situation that is likely\nirrecoverable from for generations.\nMm-hmm.\nSo those are my observations. And as to\nthe topic\nthat\nwas discussed about police and safety downtown, I know one of the things coming out\nof the Downtown Vitality Strategy Task Force is people want to save downtown.\nMm-hmm.\nI think that\nI certainly understand there are folks who\nhave challenges in their interactions with the police department.\nIf I were the police chief,\nI would be highly\nfocused on effectiveness with the community,\nand if things were getting dramatically and drastically\nworse, I'd\ncertainly be all over that, and I certainly invite city manager and the\npolice\nto address any concerns that they have in that\nrealm. But I don't...\nCharlie made the comment that things are getting worse and worse, and I haven't\nseen any evidence to that.\nNot here.\nThe North Police Department is doing excellent.\nI want to make it really clear that I'm not talking about them, but the\npublic perception-\nNationally\n... nationally is not good.\nMaybe we can change that.\nYeah. I think you have an opportunity to change that here.\nYeah. We think we have\na great situation here, so I wouldn't want to\ntake the multiple discussions and years of discussion we've had about\nthis, and make a decision about the location of a\npolice department,\nbased on perception of what's happening in Asheville.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so\nI'm very supportive of moving forward with an option.\nIf I could just push back a little bit on your first part of that comment, not on\nhow police are doing.\nMm-hmm.\nIn terms of that it would be cheaper to go someplace\nelse, and your example being HP, it's important to\nrecognize, I think, in that conversations...\nLike when someone hears it's cheaper, it's like, \"Oh, well then it's cheaper.\" But\nhow much cheaper? Or is it cheaper?\nWould be a question we would have to explore more.\nRight.\nThe buildings in HP were constructed at a period of\ntime that,\nat least in preliminary investigations or conversations,\ndon't seem to meet the seismic resiliency that we would need for a 911\nfacility.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so even if we bought the building, are we basically\ntearing it down and constructing, at least for police, a new facility?\nSo that cheaper may be just a little bit nervous to have out there in\nthe world.\nOkay. Yeah.\nBecause we know that-\nThank you for that clarification.\nWhen I came up to Corvallis in 1995,\nI worked in the, eventually, the newest building on the HP campus,\nso that's 1995.\nSo I am aware of age of the buildings.\nYeah.\nSecond,\nI do think,\nyour point of we would have to quantify the cost is\nabsolutely... I second that 1,000%, and I'm sorry if I misspoke\nabout that.\nMm-hmm.\nI think what I meant to say, in terms of cheapest,\nis that\nwe could make\nthat decision that would force that to be the solution in the short\nterm, and it might, in the first year,\nsave money or cost less than thinking something large.\nBut it will have both economic and\nnon-economic costs in the long run that I would posit actually\noutweigh the cost of what we're looking at.\nMm-hmm.\nMm-hmm.\nSo thank you for the clarification.\nYeah.\nAnd that's a great example, if I may, is-\nYeah\n... the court building.\n25 years ago, we chose to lease that building, not buy it.\nWe end up paying,\nin today's dollars, $1.9 million in lease costs,\nand then we went out and bought the building for another 1.4 million.\nAnd that doesn't include all the money we had to pour into it,\nas far as maintenance and everything else.\nSo it seems, oh, it's just cheap, let's just lease it.\nBut in the end,\nthat all adds up.\nYeah. And I would like to add about just the focus on downtown and the impact\nour decisions have on downtown.\nWhen I was the former city councilor for downtown, and any time a\nbusiness closes doors and you get a vacant storefront, people said, \"Look,\ndowntown's dying.\"\nMm-hmm.\nAnd the same thing was said when the county vacated their building and left\ndowntown.\nMm-hmm.\nThey felt everybody was like, \"Look, downtown's going to die.\"\nMm-hmm.\nWhat are we going to do?\nWe have task forces that shows that there's a lot of interest in\ndowntown, and\nif we make a decision that removes city facilities from\ndowntown,\nI think it's the nail in the coffin.\nSure.\nThat's the understatement. Because at least from the community's\nperspective, is they're going to think we're abandoning what we say we care about,\nand that's not the direction I would be happy to go at all.\nSo remember that I do not support-\nI know.\nI do want to address that there\ncan be a perception that it's, let's just do a cheaper solution.\nAnd I think it can be cheaper in the moment,\nand much more costly in the long run.\nYeah.\nYeah. In so many ways.\nYeah.\nIn so many ways.\nThat was my point.\nNot just with money.\nWell, part of what we're talking about is the cost of failure to act.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's also the cost if you just fail.\nBecause is it going to be a case we're going to be making\nhowever we end up\narticulating that, but we're going to have a story to tell, and part of\nthe story is what are the costs of our\nfailure-\nYes\n... to maintain a presence downtown, to make use of\nthe opportunity that we have related to the\ncivic campus and downtown. There's some\naspects of that that we're only beginning to articulate.\nMm-hmm.\nWhich is\ndealing with is that we have\na downtown vitality plan\nthat's\ngetting close, but it's not there yet.\nAnd\nso that whole aspect of a civic campus and\nits relationship to a vital community\nis something that would, in some ways, happen as part of a design\nprocess, right? In order to undertake the design process, we\nhave\nmoney to spend and decisions to make.\nAnd so there's a wish we could put the\npoints a little bit because that's\npart of the story we're trying to tell.\nIs what can our downtown be, especially with\nthe civic campus, and a civic\ncampus that's reimagined\nas a place for our community to gather\nand for a place for our community to rub shoulders with the police department.\nIf you want to take a moment to try to reflect on the lack of it- ...\nfollowing through with these plans.\nYeah.\nHow much has that contributed to the current state of downtown?\nCorrect.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nAnd it's hard to\ncommunicate that vision\nuntil it's there. But I've said this before, you think about\nRiverfront Park, a lot of controversy over that.\nTotally.\nBut who here could imagine downtown Corvallis without it?\nYeah.\nRight.\nAnd so it's-\nI think this would be exactly the same.\nTo be fair, there was a lot of compromise that went into the final\ndesign on downtown, because that was my first thing that I was\npaying attention to-\nMm-hmm\n... when I moved, so what was happening in Corvallis. I was a new resident.\nAnd the original design is now what we ended up with.\nSo there was a lot-\nYou actually put it to a referendum, which I think-\nA lot of community engagement in that\n... failed.\nI just wanted to interject that there are members of the downtown\ntask force\nthat are just making the connection\nbetween the importance of having facilities downtown to the\nvitality of downtown. So we have a job to\ndo to properly\ncommunicate to the community the crucial\naspect of having\nstaff, police, community\nfocal point,\nand then do this thing.\nAs I think you said, how would it look to the community\nif\nwe fail at this?\nHow about we just give up and say, \"Oh well, we can't afford it.\nWe're going to move up to H Street.\" In the middle of trying to\nrevitalize downtown?\nSo anyway.\nWe're failing by not making the difficult decision.\nRight. So anyway, we have our work cut out for us from a messaging\nstandpoint, because we've been at the downtown task force and the\ncivic campus for how long, and people do not make the connection.\nClint.\nI was\nreally involved in the downtown riverfront stuff\nin more than one way,\nand there were opponents, and there were proponents, but what they had in\ncommon was that something was going to happen at the river.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so the\nissue was around the details of what was going to happen, wasn't that\nsomething wasn't going to happen.\nAnd so\nat core, there was consensus about\nthe riverfront. It was time to transform it into a parking lot,\nbecause that's what it was, it was a gravel parking lot,\nto something else. And\nso part of our responsibility in all of this\nis going to be to articulate the vision\nthat\nthis is the future we want, even if we don't know the\ndetails yet, and even if there's going to be a lot of work to do\nto articulate in specifics what is this\ngoing to look like, how is it going to benefit the community and downtown.\nAnd so if we're going to do this, it's our job to build that\nconsensus.\nMm-hmm. Right.\nIn the same way that people started planning\na future riverfront that was going to be not gravel parking lots\nanyway.\nYeah. I think we need to decide what we want for camp.\nBut I'll give you an example.\nOur City Hall right now, some people love it, some people hate it,\njust by the looks of it.\nBut if you look at CHS, the old high school that's\ntorn down, I like the old school, but the new school,\nso much better.\nMm-hmm.\nWay better in terms of\nclassroom and\nenvironment,\nand-\nI index this class I\ndisagree.\nAnd you think about what can we do if we got rid of that\nbarracks, or whatever you want to call it, that the law enforcement\nbuilding is now. Guess what you could put there?\nYou could put-\nOver/under\n... you could put all kinds\nof beneficial things for our folks.\nWe keep the courthouse, we keep the other historic aspects of\ndowntown.\nSo,\nat first I thought, there's a lot of pushback\nabout\nthe city hall, we should preserve it.\nBut, the earthquake that's coming around, I don't know, the PBS\nspecial, the\nlatest special on\nthe\nbig one.\n30, 35% chance in the next 50 years.\nSo if we don't do something now, we're going to end up-\nWe might be forced to.\nYeah.\nRight.\nYeah. We will not have\nthe facilities to continue with\noperating the city.\nSo we're not going to wait for the earthquake to have\nthis happen, but if you think\nit's\nbeen\n300 years since it last happened, and the average is\n250 years, and yeah. Take a look at that and\nbe scared.\nWe definitely have some decisions to make and some more information to\ncome. So-\nYes\n...\nmaybe we should move on here so we can get out of here at a reasonable time.\nBut again, I really appreciate the effort, the work, and I love the data.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nMm-hmm.\nIt can be shocking.\nYeah. It's similar to the person that said, also, \"I'd really like that.\"\nI'd like to see the money part of it.\nGood. I know.\nSo we'll move on now.\nCommunity comments, we did receive some written community comments in your email,\nso be sure to read that.\nAny questions on the three-month calendar?\nCharles,\nI submitted something-\nYeah\n... and Council of Impact also submitted something to get on the\nagenda. When are we actually going to have those conversations?\nI'll be looking to schedule those things at the end of January.\nWith those, I was specifically waiting for the last conversation we had\non Monday around how the process should be.\nSo those are coming.\nOkay. I didn't feel like we came to any sort of understanding of how the process\nwould be.\nNo. I think the only we're going to do at this point-\nHow I'm comfortable\n... is to move forward and do it.\nSo that will be happening. Anything else?\nAll right. I'll turn the mic back. I say we're adjourned. Thank you.",
      "entries": [
        {
          "index": 1,
          "text": "Quiet, please.",
          "startTime": "00:00:00,140",
          "endTime": "00:00:01,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 2,
          "text": "All right, everybody. My watch says it's four o'clock, so let's go ahead and call",
          "startTime": "00:00:02,620",
          "endTime": "00:00:06,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 3,
          "text": "to order today's meeting of-- today's work session of the",
          "startTime": "00:00:06,340",
          "endTime": "00:00:10,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 4,
          "text": "Corvallis City Council.",
          "startTime": "00:00:10,260",
          "endTime": "00:00:11,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 5,
          "text": "One big topic for today, so let's just get to it and take up all our time.",
          "startTime": "00:00:12,800",
          "endTime": "00:00:16,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 6,
          "text": "Our facility investments, police and civic campus options.",
          "startTime": "00:00:17,800",
          "endTime": "00:00:20,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 7,
          "text": "Why don't you go ahead and hand it over to-",
          "startTime": "00:00:21,540",
          "endTime": "00:00:22,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 8,
          "text": "I'm going to hand it back.",
          "startTime": "00:00:23,740",
          "endTime": "00:00:24,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 9,
          "text": "Oh, okay.",
          "startTime": "00:00:24,620",
          "endTime": "00:00:25,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 10,
          "text": "Yeah. I'll just kick it off with some comments just to",
          "startTime": "00:00:27,740",
          "endTime": "00:00:31,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 11,
          "text": "provide some",
          "startTime": "00:00:31,280",
          "endTime": "00:00:32,259"
        },
        {
          "index": 12,
          "text": "perspective and background as we reenter this conversation,",
          "startTime": "00:00:33,740",
          "endTime": "00:00:37,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 13,
          "text": "and then I'll turn it over",
          "startTime": "00:00:37,740",
          "endTime": "00:00:38,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 14,
          "text": "to the smart people in the room, our architects and",
          "startTime": "00:00:40,140",
          "endTime": "00:00:42,629"
        },
        {
          "index": 15,
          "text": "Mary.",
          "startTime": "00:00:43,540",
          "endTime": "00:00:43,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 16,
          "text": "As we've talked",
          "startTime": "00:00:45,280",
          "endTime": "00:00:46,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 17,
          "text": "many times before, Corvallis has largely ignored our",
          "startTime": "00:00:47,020",
          "endTime": "00:00:50,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 18,
          "text": "facilities",
          "startTime": "00:00:51,280",
          "endTime": "00:00:52,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 19,
          "text": "for",
          "startTime": "00:00:52,920",
          "endTime": "00:00:53,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 20,
          "text": "decades.",
          "startTime": "00:00:53,940",
          "endTime": "00:00:54,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 21,
          "text": "And we have seen some recent progress and wins in that",
          "startTime": "00:00:56,120",
          "endTime": "00:00:59,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 22,
          "text": "we remodeled Fire Station 2, we remodeled Fire Station 3 with",
          "startTime": "00:01:00,520",
          "endTime": "00:01:04,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 23,
          "text": "the federal ARPA funds, and in several months we'll be",
          "startTime": "00:01:04,920",
          "endTime": "00:01:08,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 24,
          "text": "breaking ground on park maintenance facilities.",
          "startTime": "00:01:09,280",
          "endTime": "00:01:12,360"
        },
        {
          "index": 25,
          "text": "So those certainly are exciting things.",
          "startTime": "00:01:12,380",
          "endTime": "00:01:15,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 26,
          "text": "But we continue to push our existing facilities",
          "startTime": "00:01:16,520",
          "endTime": "00:01:20,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 27,
          "text": "to a breaking point, and there truly are",
          "startTime": "00:01:20,460",
          "endTime": "00:01:22,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 28,
          "text": "impacts to staff, operational impacts.",
          "startTime": "00:01:24,500",
          "endTime": "00:01:27,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 29,
          "text": "You see quite a few staff in the audience because",
          "startTime": "00:01:27,260",
          "endTime": "00:01:29,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 30,
          "text": "this is an issue that is",
          "startTime": "00:01:30,400",
          "endTime": "00:01:31,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 31,
          "text": "very important to all of us.",
          "startTime": "00:01:33,380",
          "endTime": "00:01:35,619"
        },
        {
          "index": 32,
          "text": "And as I was",
          "startTime": "00:01:36,980",
          "endTime": "00:01:37,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 33,
          "text": "thinking about that and what we've done over these decades, I really",
          "startTime": "00:01:38,540",
          "endTime": "00:01:42,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 34,
          "text": "do think Corvallis, in the way we've balanced our budget,",
          "startTime": "00:01:42,500",
          "endTime": "00:01:45,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 35,
          "text": "we've expanded services at the cost of not investing",
          "startTime": "00:01:47,020",
          "endTime": "00:01:50,890"
        },
        {
          "index": 36,
          "text": "in our facilities.",
          "startTime": "00:01:50,940",
          "endTime": "00:01:52,320"
        },
        {
          "index": 37,
          "text": "We've",
          "startTime": "00:01:53,420",
          "endTime": "00:01:53,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 38,
          "text": "created this false narrative or expectation that you don't need",
          "startTime": "00:01:55,120",
          "endTime": "00:01:59,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 39,
          "text": "to invest in facilities. Where if we had been",
          "startTime": "00:01:59,080",
          "endTime": "00:02:02,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 40,
          "text": "regularly investing, we would've been taking out bonds, we would have",
          "startTime": "00:02:02,640",
          "endTime": "00:02:06,250"
        },
        {
          "index": 41,
          "text": "debt,",
          "startTime": "00:02:06,500",
          "endTime": "00:02:06,740"
        },
        {
          "index": 42,
          "text": "or we would've been putting money aside for these facilities,",
          "startTime": "00:02:08,081",
          "endTime": "00:02:11,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 43,
          "text": "and yet we",
          "startTime": "00:02:12,020",
          "endTime": "00:02:12,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 44,
          "text": "haven't done that.",
          "startTime": "00:02:13,620",
          "endTime": "00:02:15,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 45,
          "text": "And yet investing in facilities, civic facilities, is really the",
          "startTime": "00:02:16,700",
          "endTime": "00:02:20,650"
        },
        {
          "index": 46,
          "text": "norm. Most communities do this",
          "startTime": "00:02:20,680",
          "endTime": "00:02:23,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 47,
          "text": "on a regular basis.",
          "startTime": "00:02:24,200",
          "endTime": "00:02:25,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 48,
          "text": "And you don't have to look very far.",
          "startTime": "00:02:27,280",
          "endTime": "00:02:29,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 49,
          "text": "You look to our neighbors in Albany.",
          "startTime": "00:02:29,420",
          "endTime": "00:02:31,360"
        },
        {
          "index": 50,
          "text": "They have what I'll call a newish city hall.",
          "startTime": "00:02:32,540",
          "endTime": "00:02:35,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 51,
          "text": "It's pushing 30 years now, but that's a purpose-built facility that is",
          "startTime": "00:02:35,160",
          "endTime": "00:02:39,130"
        },
        {
          "index": 52,
          "text": "serving them well.",
          "startTime": "00:02:39,180",
          "endTime": "00:02:40,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 53,
          "text": "They have a brand-new police station, a brand-new",
          "startTime": "00:02:41,230",
          "endTime": "00:02:45,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 54,
          "text": "downtown fire station. They have two",
          "startTime": "00:02:45,180",
          "endTime": "00:02:49,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 55,
          "text": "satellite fire stations that are relatively new.",
          "startTime": "00:02:49,160",
          "endTime": "00:02:52,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 56,
          "text": "They purchased a building and repurposed it into an expanded library.",
          "startTime": "00:02:53,320",
          "endTime": "00:02:57,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 57,
          "text": "So again, you see that investment from our neighbors right there.",
          "startTime": "00:02:57,340",
          "endTime": "00:03:00,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 58,
          "text": "You go north of us,",
          "startTime": "00:03:01,060",
          "endTime": "00:03:02,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 59,
          "text": "Monmouth, just a couple of years ago, opened up a brand-new",
          "startTime": "00:03:02,940",
          "endTime": "00:03:06,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 60,
          "text": "purpose-built city hall.",
          "startTime": "00:03:06,900",
          "endTime": "00:03:08,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 61,
          "text": "Monmouth's neighbor, Independence, years before Monmouth,",
          "startTime": "00:03:10,160",
          "endTime": "00:03:13,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 62,
          "text": "built a civic center that houses their city",
          "startTime": "00:03:14,580",
          "endTime": "00:03:17,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 63,
          "text": "administration and their police department.",
          "startTime": "00:03:17,740",
          "endTime": "00:03:21,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 64,
          "text": "And then interestingly, my in-laws, they live out in Scio.",
          "startTime": "00:03:22,820",
          "endTime": "00:03:26,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 65,
          "text": "I don't know if any of you have been to Scio.",
          "startTime": "00:03:26,840",
          "endTime": "00:03:28,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 66,
          "text": "It's a town of about 1,000 people,",
          "startTime": "00:03:28,900",
          "endTime": "00:03:31,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 67,
          "text": "and I've had to be out there a little more frequently because my in-laws are",
          "startTime": "00:03:32,100",
          "endTime": "00:03:35,010"
        },
        {
          "index": 68,
          "text": "requiring a little more attention.",
          "startTime": "00:03:35,060",
          "endTime": "00:03:36,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 69,
          "text": "And",
          "startTime": "00:03:36,700",
          "endTime": "00:03:37,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 70,
          "text": "I've seen recently they are building from the ground up a purpose-built",
          "startTime": "00:03:37,960",
          "endTime": "00:03:41,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 71,
          "text": "city hall. So big or small, communities do",
          "startTime": "00:03:42,040",
          "endTime": "00:03:45,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 72,
          "text": "invest in their civic",
          "startTime": "00:03:45,740",
          "endTime": "00:03:47,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 73,
          "text": "buildings and facilities.",
          "startTime": "00:03:50,160",
          "endTime": "00:03:51,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 74,
          "text": "And then if you think about even private companies, they are",
          "startTime": "00:03:52,540",
          "endTime": "00:03:55,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 75,
          "text": "profit-driven, so they're generally not going to do something if there's not a",
          "startTime": "00:03:55,760",
          "endTime": "00:03:59,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 76,
          "text": "return on investment.",
          "startTime": "00:03:59,530",
          "endTime": "00:04:00,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 77,
          "text": "And yet they do invest in not just factories, but other",
          "startTime": "00:04:01,460",
          "endTime": "00:04:05,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 78,
          "text": "facilities, office buildings and things, because they know there is a return on",
          "startTime": "00:04:05,460",
          "endTime": "00:04:09,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 79,
          "text": "investment.",
          "startTime": "00:04:09,140",
          "endTime": "00:04:09,740"
        },
        {
          "index": 80,
          "text": "They know that in that it helps attract and",
          "startTime": "00:04:11,820",
          "endTime": "00:04:15,370"
        },
        {
          "index": 81,
          "text": "retain high-quality staff, something certainly we want to",
          "startTime": "00:04:15,420",
          "endTime": "00:04:19,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 82,
          "text": "do. It creates an environment where there's collaboration,",
          "startTime": "00:04:19,440",
          "endTime": "00:04:23,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 83,
          "text": "where the staff feel valued,",
          "startTime": "00:04:23,360",
          "endTime": "00:04:25,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 84,
          "text": "where they feel safe, comfortable.",
          "startTime": "00:04:26,480",
          "endTime": "00:04:28,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 85,
          "text": "All those things leverage this return on investment of",
          "startTime": "00:04:28,940",
          "endTime": "00:04:32,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 86,
          "text": "effectiveness, efficiency.",
          "startTime": "00:04:32,740",
          "endTime": "00:04:34,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 87,
          "text": "So I think we can take some notes from the private sector that there is",
          "startTime": "00:04:35,580",
          "endTime": "00:04:39,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 88,
          "text": "a return on these investments, truly,",
          "startTime": "00:04:39,600",
          "endTime": "00:04:41,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 89,
          "text": "in how we operate.",
          "startTime": "00:04:42,660",
          "endTime": "00:04:43,740"
        },
        {
          "index": 90,
          "text": "And nothing in our plans comes close to",
          "startTime": "00:04:45,520",
          "endTime": "00:04:49,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 91,
          "text": "a private company's campus or",
          "startTime": "00:04:49,240",
          "endTime": "00:04:52,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 92,
          "text": "facilities.",
          "startTime": "00:04:52,660",
          "endTime": "00:04:53,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 93,
          "text": "But I do think our staff should be able to expect that they can",
          "startTime": "00:04:54,600",
          "endTime": "00:04:58,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 94,
          "text": "come to work in a place that is safe,",
          "startTime": "00:04:58,580",
          "endTime": "00:05:00,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 95,
          "text": "that is comfortable,",
          "startTime": "00:05:02,160",
          "endTime": "00:05:03,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 96,
          "text": "that's functional,",
          "startTime": "00:05:04,520",
          "endTime": "00:05:05,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 97,
          "text": "that's equitable,",
          "startTime": "00:05:07,520",
          "endTime": "00:05:08,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 98,
          "text": "so they feel valued, and that they can do their work well, that they can",
          "startTime": "00:05:09,640",
          "endTime": "00:05:12,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 99,
          "text": "collaborate and communicate well.",
          "startTime": "00:05:13,040",
          "endTime": "00:05:14,860"
        },
        {
          "index": 100,
          "text": "So well-functioning facilities are a foundational",
          "startTime": "00:05:16,240",
          "endTime": "00:05:19,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 101,
          "text": "aspect",
          "startTime": "00:05:19,800",
          "endTime": "00:05:20,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 102,
          "text": "of a high-performing organization.",
          "startTime": "00:05:21,460",
          "endTime": "00:05:23,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 103,
          "text": "And it's interesting, as",
          "startTime": "00:05:26,380",
          "endTime": "00:05:27,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 104,
          "text": "over the years that I've been here, we've brought forward different master plans.",
          "startTime": "00:05:29,060",
          "endTime": "00:05:32,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 105,
          "text": "You think of a water master plan, the wastewater master plan,",
          "startTime": "00:05:33,000",
          "endTime": "00:05:36,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 106,
          "text": "and I know council understands, the community understands we need to",
          "startTime": "00:05:37,440",
          "endTime": "00:05:41,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 107,
          "text": "invest in that infrastructure.",
          "startTime": "00:05:41,440",
          "endTime": "00:05:43,340"
        },
        {
          "index": 108,
          "text": "And those are expensive. Water treatment plant, wastewater treatment plant.",
          "startTime": "00:05:45,380",
          "endTime": "00:05:48,610"
        },
        {
          "index": 109,
          "text": "We have to invest in those. Why? Because the community's growing, and",
          "startTime": "00:05:48,720",
          "endTime": "00:05:52,570"
        },
        {
          "index": 110,
          "text": "so those facilities have to accommodate that",
          "startTime": "00:05:52,600",
          "endTime": "00:05:55,340"
        },
        {
          "index": 111,
          "text": "growth. Environmental regulations",
          "startTime": "00:05:55,400",
          "endTime": "00:05:59,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 112,
          "text": "change, and so those plants need to",
          "startTime": "00:05:59,260",
          "endTime": "00:06:02,930"
        },
        {
          "index": 113,
          "text": "accommodate that. There's a parallel.",
          "startTime": "00:06:03,060",
          "endTime": "00:06:05,410"
        },
        {
          "index": 114,
          "text": "It's directly the same with our buildings that house our staffAs our",
          "startTime": "00:06:05,420",
          "endTime": "00:06:09,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 115,
          "text": "community grows, we've added staff.",
          "startTime": "00:06:09,388",
          "endTime": "00:06:11,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 116,
          "text": "We need to accommodate those staff.",
          "startTime": "00:06:11,668",
          "endTime": "00:06:13,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 117,
          "text": "And as the workforce evolves, we need to accommodate that",
          "startTime": "00:06:14,388",
          "endTime": "00:06:18,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 118,
          "text": "new environment",
          "startTime": "00:06:18,228",
          "endTime": "00:06:19,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 119,
          "text": "with the evolved staffing that we have.",
          "startTime": "00:06:20,388",
          "endTime": "00:06:22,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 120,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "00:06:25,448",
          "endTime": "00:06:25,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 121,
          "text": "our buildings and facilities are no different than what we see in our",
          "startTime": "00:06:26,628",
          "endTime": "00:06:30,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 122,
          "text": "wastewater treatment plants.",
          "startTime": "00:06:30,568",
          "endTime": "00:06:31,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 123,
          "text": "And in fact,",
          "startTime": "00:06:33,708",
          "endTime": "00:06:34,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 124,
          "text": "we do have a facilities master plan.",
          "startTime": "00:06:35,768",
          "endTime": "00:06:38,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 125,
          "text": "This was adopted by the council in January of",
          "startTime": "00:06:38,728",
          "endTime": "00:06:41,728"
        },
        {
          "index": 126,
          "text": "2022. It's our citywide facilities",
          "startTime": "00:06:41,888",
          "endTime": "00:06:45,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 127,
          "text": "strategy. So it is a master plan. And while",
          "startTime": "00:06:45,708",
          "endTime": "00:06:49,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 128,
          "text": "today we're talking about the civic campus and the police facilities,",
          "startTime": "00:06:49,308",
          "endTime": "00:06:52,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 129,
          "text": "there are many more facilities yet that we need to address.",
          "startTime": "00:06:54,908",
          "endTime": "00:06:58,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 130,
          "text": "And I want you to keep that in mind as we move forward in the months ahead, when",
          "startTime": "00:06:59,248",
          "endTime": "00:07:03,198"
        },
        {
          "index": 131,
          "text": "we start talking about funding and how we might",
          "startTime": "00:07:03,228",
          "endTime": "00:07:06,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 132,
          "text": "fund facility projects. And then",
          "startTime": "00:07:06,968",
          "endTime": "00:07:10,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 133,
          "text": "lastly, I think it's good to remind ourselves",
          "startTime": "00:07:10,848",
          "endTime": "00:07:14,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 134,
          "text": "that really at the heart, at the very beginning of our",
          "startTime": "00:07:15,908",
          "endTime": "00:07:19,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 135,
          "text": "conversations and planning for civic campus and police station, was",
          "startTime": "00:07:19,308",
          "endTime": "00:07:23,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 136,
          "text": "this idea that this is not just about staff space, it's",
          "startTime": "00:07:23,208",
          "endTime": "00:07:27,198"
        },
        {
          "index": 137,
          "text": "not just about office space,",
          "startTime": "00:07:27,268",
          "endTime": "00:07:28,758"
        },
        {
          "index": 138,
          "text": "but it truly is an opportunity to make a community",
          "startTime": "00:07:29,748",
          "endTime": "00:07:33,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 139,
          "text": "space. It's really a",
          "startTime": "00:07:33,728",
          "endTime": "00:07:35,527"
        },
        {
          "index": 140,
          "text": "once in a lifetime opportunity to create something downtown.",
          "startTime": "00:07:36,668",
          "endTime": "00:07:40,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 141,
          "text": "And I think it's exciting,",
          "startTime": "00:07:40,678",
          "endTime": "00:07:42,298"
        },
        {
          "index": 142,
          "text": "kind of that refocus on downtown that the community has had and",
          "startTime": "00:07:43,128",
          "endTime": "00:07:46,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 143,
          "text": "how those conversations are developing, how projects are",
          "startTime": "00:07:47,348",
          "endTime": "00:07:51,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 144,
          "text": "moving forward.",
          "startTime": "00:07:51,288",
          "endTime": "00:07:52,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 145,
          "text": "And I do want to remind everyone that",
          "startTime": "00:07:53,848",
          "endTime": "00:07:55,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 146,
          "text": "the beginning, the driver, the impetus for this focus on downtown",
          "startTime": "00:07:57,168",
          "endTime": "00:08:00,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 147,
          "text": "was actually when we brought civic campus and police station",
          "startTime": "00:08:01,108",
          "endTime": "00:08:04,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 148,
          "text": "project forward years ago. That's what really kind of kicked that",
          "startTime": "00:08:05,188",
          "endTime": "00:08:08,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 149,
          "text": "off.",
          "startTime": "00:08:08,928",
          "endTime": "00:08:09,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 150,
          "text": "So I do think these projects specifically",
          "startTime": "00:08:10,148",
          "endTime": "00:08:12,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 151,
          "text": "can have a huge impact far outside",
          "startTime": "00:08:15,128",
          "endTime": "00:08:18,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 152,
          "text": "just how they impact the way the city delivers services.",
          "startTime": "00:08:18,928",
          "endTime": "00:08:22,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 153,
          "text": "As we move forward today, we are not seeking a decision from",
          "startTime": "00:08:26,528",
          "endTime": "00:08:30,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 154,
          "text": "the council. And in fact, you wouldn't be able to provide a",
          "startTime": "00:08:30,508",
          "endTime": "00:08:34,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 155,
          "text": "well-reasoned or well-informed decision today because we haven't talked",
          "startTime": "00:08:34,369",
          "endTime": "00:08:37,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 156,
          "text": "about the revenue side, how we might pay for that, and what",
          "startTime": "00:08:37,608",
          "endTime": "00:08:40,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 157,
          "text": "might be possible.",
          "startTime": "00:08:41,528",
          "endTime": "00:08:42,489"
        },
        {
          "index": 158,
          "text": "So this really is to",
          "startTime": "00:08:43,568",
          "endTime": "00:08:45,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 159,
          "text": "respond to the resolution that the council passed to bring",
          "startTime": "00:08:46,388",
          "endTime": "00:08:50,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 160,
          "text": "forward this option and",
          "startTime": "00:08:50,248",
          "endTime": "00:08:53,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 161,
          "text": "implications of moving forward in different ways with these facilities, together or",
          "startTime": "00:08:54,848",
          "endTime": "00:08:58,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 162,
          "text": "separate.",
          "startTime": "00:08:58,828",
          "endTime": "00:08:59,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 163,
          "text": "So that's what we'll work towards today and provide.",
          "startTime": "00:09:00,788",
          "endTime": "00:09:04,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 164,
          "text": "And it's important to keep this information",
          "startTime": "00:09:05,028",
          "endTime": "00:09:07,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 165,
          "text": "in mind as we move forward in May and June,",
          "startTime": "00:09:07,888",
          "endTime": "00:09:11,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 166,
          "text": "and if it goes on a month or two beyond that, and we start",
          "startTime": "00:09:11,528",
          "endTime": "00:09:15,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 167,
          "text": "making decisions about the facilities and the funding.",
          "startTime": "00:09:15,448",
          "endTime": "00:09:18,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 168,
          "text": "This is really foundational for that, for you, hopefully also",
          "startTime": "00:09:18,948",
          "endTime": "00:09:22,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 169,
          "text": "for the community too.",
          "startTime": "00:09:22,868",
          "endTime": "00:09:25,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 170,
          "text": "So with that, I'll be turning it over.",
          "startTime": "00:09:26,608",
          "endTime": "00:09:28,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 171,
          "text": "I think Ian, you're going to kick us off.",
          "startTime": "00:09:29,308",
          "endTime": "00:09:30,988"
        },
        {
          "index": 172,
          "text": "Ian is going to lead us through a section.",
          "startTime": "00:09:32,608",
          "endTime": "00:09:35,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 173,
          "text": "Mary's going to talk about sustainable decision-making.",
          "startTime": "00:09:35,068",
          "endTime": "00:09:37,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 174,
          "text": "I think the best way to handle this is hold your questions till",
          "startTime": "00:09:38,208",
          "endTime": "00:09:41,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 175,
          "text": "Ian's done, we'll open it up. Mary's done, and then once we're done with",
          "startTime": "00:09:42,108",
          "endTime": "00:09:45,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 176,
          "text": "everything,",
          "startTime": "00:09:45,848",
          "endTime": "00:09:46,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 177,
          "text": "hopefully we'll have some good conversation and general questions",
          "startTime": "00:09:47,108",
          "endTime": "00:09:50,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 178,
          "text": "at the end.",
          "startTime": "00:09:50,928",
          "endTime": "00:09:51,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 179,
          "text": "Any questions before I hand it over to Ian?",
          "startTime": "00:09:52,948",
          "endTime": "00:09:55,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 180,
          "text": "Okay. Good.",
          "startTime": "00:09:56,748",
          "endTime": "00:09:58,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 181,
          "text": "All right.",
          "startTime": "00:09:58,388",
          "endTime": "00:09:58,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 182,
          "text": "And Ian, you can introduce yourself and John.",
          "startTime": "00:09:58,928",
          "endTime": "00:10:01,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 183,
          "text": "Good afternoon, council. Great to see many of you again.",
          "startTime": "00:10:02,448",
          "endTime": "00:10:06,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 184,
          "text": "For those of you who I haven't met before,",
          "startTime": "00:10:06,408",
          "endTime": "00:10:08,538"
        },
        {
          "index": 185,
          "text": "my name is Ian Gelber. I'm a partner with FFA Architecture and Interiors of",
          "startTime": "00:10:09,368",
          "endTime": "00:10:13,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 186,
          "text": "Portland. We're a 70-year-old practice that has been in",
          "startTime": "00:10:13,308",
          "endTime": "00:10:16,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 187,
          "text": "pretty much that entire time.",
          "startTime": "00:10:16,888",
          "endTime": "00:10:18,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 188,
          "text": "Most of our work is focused on public facilities like",
          "startTime": "00:10:19,288",
          "endTime": "00:10:22,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 189,
          "text": "the facilities that you're considering today.",
          "startTime": "00:10:22,948",
          "endTime": "00:10:25,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 190,
          "text": "I'm joined here today with John Peet, who is our project manager.",
          "startTime": "00:10:26,528",
          "endTime": "00:10:30,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 191,
          "text": "He's here to make sure that I don't say anything that I wasn't supposed to say or",
          "startTime": "00:10:30,427",
          "endTime": "00:10:33,988"
        },
        {
          "index": 192,
          "text": "to actually correct me if I get something wrong.",
          "startTime": "00:10:34,248",
          "endTime": "00:10:36,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 193,
          "text": "For most of my 28-year career, I have been focused",
          "startTime": "00:10:37,848",
          "endTime": "00:10:41,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 194,
          "text": "on public facilities. Within the last 10, my",
          "startTime": "00:10:41,768",
          "endTime": "00:10:45,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 195,
          "text": "focus has been helping",
          "startTime": "00:10:45,648",
          "endTime": "00:10:46,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 196,
          "text": "municipalities like yours get from conversations like",
          "startTime": "00:10:47,808",
          "endTime": "00:10:51,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 197,
          "text": "today to opening day.",
          "startTime": "00:10:51,608",
          "endTime": "00:10:53,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 198,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:10:53,988",
          "endTime": "00:10:53,998"
        },
        {
          "index": 199,
          "text": "And all the various ways that those types of things happen.",
          "startTime": "00:10:53,998",
          "endTime": "00:10:56,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 200,
          "text": "With that, we're going to dive in.",
          "startTime": "00:10:58,588",
          "endTime": "00:11:00,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 201,
          "text": "So we have here. We've organized this in such a",
          "startTime": "00:11:02,808",
          "endTime": "00:11:06,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 202,
          "text": "way to reset the stage. It's been",
          "startTime": "00:11:06,588",
          "endTime": "00:11:10,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 203,
          "text": "a little over a year or more since we've had a chance to, since",
          "startTime": "00:11:10,948",
          "endTime": "00:11:14,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 204,
          "text": "council made the decision about which vision that they wanted to move forward with.",
          "startTime": "00:11:14,748",
          "endTime": "00:11:18,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 205,
          "text": "So we want to reintroduce that, particularly for council members who weren't a part",
          "startTime": "00:11:19,228",
          "endTime": "00:11:22,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 206,
          "text": "of those conversations.",
          "startTime": "00:11:22,488",
          "endTime": "00:11:23,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 207,
          "text": "And then the bulk of the conversation is really about how these projects get",
          "startTime": "00:11:24,548",
          "endTime": "00:11:28,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 208,
          "text": "implemented. And we'll go through a series of scenarios and talk",
          "startTime": "00:11:28,468",
          "endTime": "00:11:32,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 209,
          "text": "about the pros and cons and what the risks might be to full",
          "startTime": "00:11:32,288",
          "endTime": "00:11:36,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 210,
          "text": "implementation. And then lastly, as Mark mentioned, then there's the",
          "startTime": "00:11:36,228",
          "endTime": "00:11:40,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 211,
          "text": "conversation about what the upcoming process.",
          "startTime": "00:11:40,048",
          "endTime": "00:11:42,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 212,
          "text": "So resetting the stage.",
          "startTime": "00:11:46,128",
          "endTime": "00:11:47,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 213,
          "text": "This endeavor began in 2022 with the master",
          "startTime": "00:11:49,568",
          "endTime": "00:11:53,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 214,
          "text": "plan that Mark just mentioned.",
          "startTime": "00:11:53,108",
          "endTime": "00:11:56,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 215,
          "text": "And so within that",
          "startTime": "00:11:57,528",
          "endTime": "00:11:59,258"
        },
        {
          "index": 216,
          "text": "effort, we had tasks of assessing the different",
          "startTime": "00:12:00,868",
          "endTime": "00:12:04,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 217,
          "text": "facilities that are in Corvallis's facility portfolio.",
          "startTime": "00:12:04,748",
          "endTime": "00:12:08,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 218,
          "text": "And so we looked at a range of different thingsThis gets at",
          "startTime": "00:12:09,008",
          "endTime": "00:12:12,904"
        },
        {
          "index": 219,
          "text": "what Mark talked about initially, which is that if the red",
          "startTime": "00:12:12,924",
          "endTime": "00:12:16,704"
        },
        {
          "index": 220,
          "text": "line represents the population growth of the city",
          "startTime": "00:12:16,764",
          "endTime": "00:12:20,694"
        },
        {
          "index": 221,
          "text": "of Corvallis",
          "startTime": "00:12:20,704",
          "endTime": "00:12:21,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 222,
          "text": "up until, I think about",
          "startTime": "00:12:22,424",
          "endTime": "00:12:23,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 223,
          "text": "a little past 2020.",
          "startTime": "00:12:24,544",
          "endTime": "00:12:25,644"
        },
        {
          "index": 224,
          "text": "Excuse me. And that the projected growth is to continue to",
          "startTime": "00:12:26,984",
          "endTime": "00:12:30,664"
        },
        {
          "index": 225,
          "text": "about 75,000 by 2040.",
          "startTime": "00:12:30,744",
          "endTime": "00:12:32,783"
        },
        {
          "index": 226,
          "text": "The dark blue represents the amount of square footage in your existing facilities.",
          "startTime": "00:12:33,934",
          "endTime": "00:12:37,884"
        },
        {
          "index": 227,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "00:12:37,944",
          "endTime": "00:12:38,234"
        },
        {
          "index": 228,
          "text": "And you start to see where that gap has",
          "startTime": "00:12:38,784",
          "endTime": "00:12:42,454"
        },
        {
          "index": 229,
          "text": "occurred over time, where your facility investment, just",
          "startTime": "00:12:42,944",
          "endTime": "00:12:46,804"
        },
        {
          "index": 230,
          "text": "from a space needs, hasn't kept up with your population growth.",
          "startTime": "00:12:46,844",
          "endTime": "00:12:50,104"
        },
        {
          "index": 231,
          "text": "And then as that dashed line moves past, that is the",
          "startTime": "00:12:50,864",
          "endTime": "00:12:54,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 232,
          "text": "expected growth that's to happen.",
          "startTime": "00:12:54,414",
          "endTime": "00:12:55,864"
        },
        {
          "index": 233,
          "text": "And so there's a risk that you sort of get deeper in the hole much quickly",
          "startTime": "00:12:56,784",
          "endTime": "00:13:00,764"
        },
        {
          "index": 234,
          "text": "if you don't take the steps in some ways in the",
          "startTime": "00:13:00,844",
          "endTime": "00:13:03,524"
        },
        {
          "index": 235,
          "text": "reasonable future.",
          "startTime": "00:13:04,384",
          "endTime": "00:13:05,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 236,
          "text": "In addition to looking at space needs, and we'll talk a little bit about space",
          "startTime": "00:13:08,724",
          "endTime": "00:13:12,044"
        },
        {
          "index": 237,
          "text": "needs again, we were responsible for doing ranking the",
          "startTime": "00:13:12,104",
          "endTime": "00:13:15,984"
        },
        {
          "index": 238,
          "text": "current facilities relative to their condition.",
          "startTime": "00:13:16,044",
          "endTime": "00:13:19,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 239,
          "text": "And we've got four buckets. We have administrative, which",
          "startTime": "00:13:19,464",
          "endTime": "00:13:22,914"
        },
        {
          "index": 240,
          "text": "includes",
          "startTime": "00:13:22,914",
          "endTime": "00:13:23,524"
        },
        {
          "index": 241,
          "text": "city administration, city hall,",
          "startTime": "00:13:24,344",
          "endTime": "00:13:25,884"
        },
        {
          "index": 242,
          "text": "HR, everything that is centered around the management of the",
          "startTime": "00:13:26,784",
          "endTime": "00:13:30,484"
        },
        {
          "index": 243,
          "text": "city. We have operations, that includes public works and parks",
          "startTime": "00:13:30,564",
          "endTime": "00:13:34,484"
        },
        {
          "index": 244,
          "text": "maintenance, and then we have public safety, which is police",
          "startTime": "00:13:34,584",
          "endTime": "00:13:38,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 245,
          "text": "as well as fire. And then public-facing functions that are",
          "startTime": "00:13:38,804",
          "endTime": "00:13:42,654"
        },
        {
          "index": 246,
          "text": "library, the pool, theater,",
          "startTime": "00:13:42,884",
          "endTime": "00:13:44,864"
        },
        {
          "index": 247,
          "text": "they fall in that last.",
          "startTime": "00:13:45,744",
          "endTime": "00:13:46,704"
        },
        {
          "index": 248,
          "text": "At the bottom you see our sort of rating scale.",
          "startTime": "00:13:47,784",
          "endTime": "00:13:50,464"
        },
        {
          "index": 249,
          "text": "Everything from poor, which is one or the dark red, to",
          "startTime": "00:13:50,764",
          "endTime": "00:13:54,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 250,
          "text": "green, which is good.",
          "startTime": "00:13:54,624",
          "endTime": "00:13:55,944"
        },
        {
          "index": 251,
          "text": "So the dark red that you see in operations, that's parks maintenance.",
          "startTime": "00:13:57,424",
          "endTime": "00:14:01,234"
        },
        {
          "index": 252,
          "text": "And if you've ever toured parks maintenance facility, I don't think that's",
          "startTime": "00:14:01,924",
          "endTime": "00:14:05,024"
        },
        {
          "index": 253,
          "text": "arguable.",
          "startTime": "00:14:05,104",
          "endTime": "00:14:05,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 254,
          "text": "If you look at public safety, that is the law enforcement building.",
          "startTime": "00:14:07,644",
          "endTime": "00:14:10,944"
        },
        {
          "index": 255,
          "text": "And then the green aspects there, or there's a little bit red there",
          "startTime": "00:14:11,764",
          "endTime": "00:14:15,364"
        },
        {
          "index": 256,
          "text": "also for city hall.",
          "startTime": "00:14:15,444",
          "endTime": "00:14:16,784"
        },
        {
          "index": 257,
          "text": "And then the green aspect is the investments that you've already done with the fire",
          "startTime": "00:14:17,684",
          "endTime": "00:14:21,144"
        },
        {
          "index": 258,
          "text": "station work that you've completed.",
          "startTime": "00:14:21,204",
          "endTime": "00:14:22,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 259,
          "text": "So this is a representation of those space needs with those",
          "startTime": "00:14:27,164",
          "endTime": "00:14:30,984"
        },
        {
          "index": 260,
          "text": "same buckets, the administrative, the operations, the public safety, and public",
          "startTime": "00:14:31,084",
          "endTime": "00:14:34,624"
        },
        {
          "index": 261,
          "text": "facing.",
          "startTime": "00:14:34,664",
          "endTime": "00:14:35,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 262,
          "text": "The light gray represents your current square footage.",
          "startTime": "00:14:35,884",
          "endTime": "00:14:39,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 263,
          "text": "The dark red represents to meet today's current needs,",
          "startTime": "00:14:40,544",
          "endTime": "00:14:44,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 264,
          "text": "how much more square footage you would need.",
          "startTime": "00:14:44,524",
          "endTime": "00:14:46,304"
        },
        {
          "index": 265,
          "text": "And then to the bluish cyan color",
          "startTime": "00:14:47,184",
          "endTime": "00:14:51,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 266,
          "text": "represents if you're projecting that growth out to",
          "startTime": "00:14:51,624",
          "endTime": "00:14:55,184"
        },
        {
          "index": 267,
          "text": "2040, how much additional space you would need on top of what you have",
          "startTime": "00:14:55,324",
          "endTime": "00:14:59,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 268,
          "text": "today.",
          "startTime": "00:14:59,124",
          "endTime": "00:14:59,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 269,
          "text": "I will say that in this process of evaluation of the",
          "startTime": "00:15:03,184",
          "endTime": "00:15:07,084"
        },
        {
          "index": 270,
          "text": "city facilities, we looked at everything.",
          "startTime": "00:15:07,244",
          "endTime": "00:15:09,304"
        },
        {
          "index": 271,
          "text": "We went through 10 departments,",
          "startTime": "00:15:09,524",
          "endTime": "00:15:10,694"
        },
        {
          "index": 272,
          "text": "and 17 facilities overall. John's going to correct me if I get that wrong.",
          "startTime": "00:15:11,604",
          "endTime": "00:15:15,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 273,
          "text": "Thanks.",
          "startTime": "00:15:15,644",
          "endTime": "00:15:15,844"
        },
        {
          "index": 274,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "00:15:15,854",
          "endTime": "00:15:16,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 275,
          "text": "As part of that process, we established guiding principles",
          "startTime": "00:15:19,924",
          "endTime": "00:15:23,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 276,
          "text": "for the arc of what we're talking about, both in that facility",
          "startTime": "00:15:23,444",
          "endTime": "00:15:27,224"
        },
        {
          "index": 277,
          "text": "assessment and moving forward into concept design.",
          "startTime": "00:15:27,284",
          "endTime": "00:15:30,464"
        },
        {
          "index": 278,
          "text": "All of those guiding principles came from the work that council",
          "startTime": "00:15:31,284",
          "endTime": "00:15:35,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 279,
          "text": "had already done in a series of policy documents.",
          "startTime": "00:15:35,284",
          "endTime": "00:15:38,384"
        },
        {
          "index": 280,
          "text": "So if you remember, we had a matrix that we presented last",
          "startTime": "00:15:38,744",
          "endTime": "00:15:42,564"
        },
        {
          "index": 281,
          "text": "time that showed",
          "startTime": "00:15:42,584",
          "endTime": "00:15:43,444"
        },
        {
          "index": 282,
          "text": "all the things they were doing and how they tied back to specific policy decisions",
          "startTime": "00:15:44,564",
          "endTime": "00:15:48,424"
        },
        {
          "index": 283,
          "text": "the council had made over time. And so it just reinforced the",
          "startTime": "00:15:48,804",
          "endTime": "00:15:52,604"
        },
        {
          "index": 284,
          "text": "priorities that council had,",
          "startTime": "00:15:52,644",
          "endTime": "00:15:53,864"
        },
        {
          "index": 285,
          "text": "and we felt like it was a good way to kind of evaluate the steps that we were",
          "startTime": "00:15:54,824",
          "endTime": "00:15:58,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 286,
          "text": "taking.",
          "startTime": "00:15:58,724",
          "endTime": "00:15:59,184"
        },
        {
          "index": 287,
          "text": "So let's talk about the decision that council made back",
          "startTime": "00:16:03,344",
          "endTime": "00:16:07,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 288,
          "text": "in November of 2024.",
          "startTime": "00:16:07,284",
          "endTime": "00:16:09,264"
        },
        {
          "index": 289,
          "text": "We presented multiple scenarios about how",
          "startTime": "00:16:10,444",
          "endTime": "00:16:13,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 290,
          "text": "Civic Campus and the police station",
          "startTime": "00:16:14,324",
          "endTime": "00:16:16,224"
        },
        {
          "index": 291,
          "text": "could be configured around Madison.",
          "startTime": "00:16:17,244",
          "endTime": "00:16:19,744"
        },
        {
          "index": 292,
          "text": "These were really the sites that we focused on.",
          "startTime": "00:16:19,824",
          "endTime": "00:16:21,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 293,
          "text": "This was land that the city either owned or was in the process of owning,",
          "startTime": "00:16:24,244",
          "endTime": "00:16:27,904"
        },
        {
          "index": 294,
          "text": "and we felt like this was the right place with",
          "startTime": "00:16:28,324",
          "endTime": "00:16:30,044"
        },
        {
          "index": 295,
          "text": "other priorities around Madison Avenue.",
          "startTime": "00:16:30,884",
          "endTime": "00:16:33,624"
        },
        {
          "index": 296,
          "text": "Most of the other versions that we talked about with you involved",
          "startTime": "00:16:35,124",
          "endTime": "00:16:38,704"
        },
        {
          "index": 297,
          "text": "keeping the existing city hall or not.",
          "startTime": "00:16:39,384",
          "endTime": "00:16:41,364"
        },
        {
          "index": 298,
          "text": "This was the ultimate vision that council decided, and I'm going to walk through",
          "startTime": "00:16:42,404",
          "endTime": "00:16:45,984"
        },
        {
          "index": 299,
          "text": "quickly just the different categories,",
          "startTime": "00:16:45,994",
          "endTime": "00:16:48,604"
        },
        {
          "index": 300,
          "text": "why they were ranked the way that they were.",
          "startTime": "00:16:49,204",
          "endTime": "00:16:51,644"
        },
        {
          "index": 301,
          "text": "So in the white bars that you see, anything on the left",
          "startTime": "00:16:52,244",
          "endTime": "00:16:55,524"
        },
        {
          "index": 302,
          "text": "where it has a little negative were considered less desirable",
          "startTime": "00:16:56,144",
          "endTime": "00:16:59,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 303,
          "text": "relative to those guiding principles.",
          "startTime": "00:16:59,804",
          "endTime": "00:17:01,484"
        },
        {
          "index": 304,
          "text": "Anything where it goes all the way to the right where the positive is,",
          "startTime": "00:17:01,944",
          "endTime": "00:17:04,924"
        },
        {
          "index": 305,
          "text": "felt like they were meeting guiding principles much better.",
          "startTime": "00:17:05,744",
          "endTime": "00:17:08,305"
        },
        {
          "index": 306,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "00:17:09,424",
          "endTime": "00:17:09,604"
        },
        {
          "index": 307,
          "text": "beginning with the first one, from a functional and operation standpoint,",
          "startTime": "00:17:10,545",
          "endTime": "00:17:14,124"
        },
        {
          "index": 308,
          "text": "these projects were bringing everybody together and consolidating them",
          "startTime": "00:17:14,764",
          "endTime": "00:17:18,234"
        },
        {
          "index": 309,
          "text": "around",
          "startTime": "00:17:18,285",
          "endTime": "00:17:18,805"
        },
        {
          "index": 310,
          "text": "the potential plaza area on Madison.",
          "startTime": "00:17:19,744",
          "endTime": "00:17:22,384"
        },
        {
          "index": 311,
          "text": "And that notion of synergies across",
          "startTime": "00:17:23,065",
          "endTime": "00:17:26,545"
        },
        {
          "index": 312,
          "text": "city departments was seen as a positive, versus being",
          "startTime": "00:17:26,924",
          "endTime": "00:17:30,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 313,
          "text": "distributed between the existing city hall, this",
          "startTime": "00:17:30,524",
          "endTime": "00:17:34,044"
        },
        {
          "index": 314,
          "text": "building.",
          "startTime": "00:17:34,104",
          "endTime": "00:17:34,564"
        },
        {
          "index": 315,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:17:37,104",
          "endTime": "00:17:37,284"
        },
        {
          "index": 316,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:17:37,404",
          "endTime": "00:17:37,584"
        },
        {
          "index": 317,
          "text": "Thanks.",
          "startTime": "00:17:37,784",
          "endTime": "00:17:37,974"
        },
        {
          "index": 318,
          "text": "This was seen as a way to",
          "startTime": "00:17:38,044",
          "endTime": "00:17:41,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 319,
          "text": "create a higher degree of synergy and efficiency.",
          "startTime": "00:17:42,964",
          "endTime": "00:17:45,264"
        },
        {
          "index": 320,
          "text": "Carbon impact.",
          "startTime": "00:17:47,164",
          "endTime": "00:17:48,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 321,
          "text": "We spent a lot of time talking about carbon.",
          "startTime": "00:17:48,924",
          "endTime": "00:17:50,644"
        },
        {
          "index": 322,
          "text": "When you are",
          "startTime": "00:17:51,724",
          "endTime": "00:17:52,484"
        },
        {
          "index": 323,
          "text": "evaluating carbon, you're looking at carbon from two perspectives.",
          "startTime": "00:17:53,504",
          "endTime": "00:17:56,964"
        },
        {
          "index": 324,
          "text": "One is the embodied carbon, which from an architectural standpoint, it's what",
          "startTime": "00:17:57,164",
          "endTime": "00:18:01,144"
        },
        {
          "index": 325,
          "text": "it takes to make the building, to build the building.",
          "startTime": "00:18:01,204",
          "endTime": "00:18:03,744"
        },
        {
          "index": 326,
          "text": "And then you're talking about operational carbon, which is how much it takes to",
          "startTime": "00:18:04,364",
          "endTime": "00:18:08,224"
        },
        {
          "index": 327,
          "text": "run the facility from an energy perspective.",
          "startTime": "00:18:09,224",
          "endTime": "00:18:13,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 328,
          "text": "The carbon impact here was less",
          "startTime": "00:18:13,284",
          "endTime": "00:18:15,084"
        },
        {
          "index": 329,
          "text": "over-Largely because the embodied",
          "startTime": "00:18:15,644",
          "endTime": "00:18:19,252"
        },
        {
          "index": 330,
          "text": "carbon",
          "startTime": "00:18:19,332",
          "endTime": "00:18:19,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 331,
          "text": "of the existing city hall was taken out of the equation.",
          "startTime": "00:18:20,652",
          "endTime": "00:18:24,051"
        },
        {
          "index": 332,
          "text": "The two points I would have around that are that",
          "startTime": "00:18:25,812",
          "endTime": "00:18:29,612"
        },
        {
          "index": 333,
          "text": "the facilities that we're proposing for",
          "startTime": "00:18:30,132",
          "endTime": "00:18:32,692"
        },
        {
          "index": 334,
          "text": "would be as low carbon as we can",
          "startTime": "00:18:32,992",
          "endTime": "00:18:36,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 335,
          "text": "possibly make within the technology that we have now, which is",
          "startTime": "00:18:36,812",
          "endTime": "00:18:40,172"
        },
        {
          "index": 336,
          "text": "using things like mass timber, looking at other systems to look",
          "startTime": "00:18:40,512",
          "endTime": "00:18:44,392"
        },
        {
          "index": 337,
          "text": "at decreasing the embodied carbon.",
          "startTime": "00:18:44,432",
          "endTime": "00:18:46,331"
        },
        {
          "index": 338,
          "text": "Or sorry, from the beginning of the construction.",
          "startTime": "00:18:47,472",
          "endTime": "00:18:50,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 339,
          "text": "The operational carbon is about creating facilities that are incredibly",
          "startTime": "00:18:51,292",
          "endTime": "00:18:55,172"
        },
        {
          "index": 340,
          "text": "efficient.",
          "startTime": "00:18:55,212",
          "endTime": "00:18:55,852"
        },
        {
          "index": 341,
          "text": "I think Mary's going to share some graphs at the end of the presentation.",
          "startTime": "00:18:57,332",
          "endTime": "00:19:00,412"
        },
        {
          "index": 342,
          "text": "We'll talk about the actual energies- ... at city hall.",
          "startTime": "00:19:00,452",
          "endTime": "00:19:03,652"
        },
        {
          "index": 343,
          "text": "And as an architect, I will tell you that it's staggering.",
          "startTime": "00:19:04,212",
          "endTime": "00:19:07,412"
        },
        {
          "index": 344,
          "text": "I haven't seen a figure like that before.",
          "startTime": "00:19:07,552",
          "endTime": "00:19:09,272"
        },
        {
          "index": 345,
          "text": "But not to thunder,",
          "startTime": "00:19:11,212",
          "endTime": "00:19:12,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 346,
          "text": "it is impressive.",
          "startTime": "00:19:13,752",
          "endTime": "00:19:14,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 347,
          "text": "From a resiliency standpoint,",
          "startTime": "00:19:16,012",
          "endTime": "00:19:17,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 348,
          "text": "we're looking at as much resilience as we can.",
          "startTime": "00:19:19,032",
          "endTime": "00:19:20,992"
        },
        {
          "index": 349,
          "text": "When you are doing a police station, you have to meet",
          "startTime": "00:19:21,412",
          "endTime": "00:19:25,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 350,
          "text": "a seismic level or an earthquake resistance level of what's called Level 4.",
          "startTime": "00:19:25,312",
          "endTime": "00:19:29,252"
        },
        {
          "index": 351,
          "text": "That means that in the event of an earthquake,",
          "startTime": "00:19:30,032",
          "endTime": "00:19:32,012"
        },
        {
          "index": 352,
          "text": "everyone leaves the building during the earthquake, and the police can go right",
          "startTime": "00:19:33,592",
          "endTime": "00:19:36,712"
        },
        {
          "index": 353,
          "text": "back in and continue operation because they need to.",
          "startTime": "00:19:36,752",
          "endTime": "00:19:39,252"
        },
        {
          "index": 354,
          "text": "With the civic campus,",
          "startTime": "00:19:40,792",
          "endTime": "00:19:41,932"
        },
        {
          "index": 355,
          "text": "we decided that we were going to aim for Level 3,",
          "startTime": "00:19:43,272",
          "endTime": "00:19:46,192"
        },
        {
          "index": 356,
          "text": "which enabled everyone to get out of the building safely, which is required by",
          "startTime": "00:19:47,112",
          "endTime": "00:19:50,752"
        },
        {
          "index": 357,
          "text": "code. But the building is not a throwaway when you're done.",
          "startTime": "00:19:50,832",
          "endTime": "00:19:53,672"
        },
        {
          "index": 358,
          "text": "So that your investment in facility right now is one",
          "startTime": "00:19:54,992",
          "endTime": "00:19:58,852"
        },
        {
          "index": 359,
          "text": "that survives an earthquake, needs some repairs, but it's not we're",
          "startTime": "00:19:58,872",
          "endTime": "00:20:02,632"
        },
        {
          "index": 360,
          "text": "scraping the site kind of condition.",
          "startTime": "00:20:02,732",
          "endTime": "00:20:04,572"
        },
        {
          "index": 361,
          "text": "By comparison, the current city hall has had seismic",
          "startTime": "00:20:05,392",
          "endTime": "00:20:09,172"
        },
        {
          "index": 362,
          "text": "upgrades, but it is to a Level 2, which means that everybody gets out",
          "startTime": "00:20:09,232",
          "endTime": "00:20:13,072"
        },
        {
          "index": 363,
          "text": "safely, but the building is done. There's no repairing.",
          "startTime": "00:20:13,132",
          "endTime": "00:20:16,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 364,
          "text": "So keeping that in mind in terms of the overall resilience.",
          "startTime": "00:20:17,432",
          "endTime": "00:20:20,292"
        },
        {
          "index": 365,
          "text": "And then resilience is not just about earthquake resistance, it's",
          "startTime": "00:20:20,852",
          "endTime": "00:20:24,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 366,
          "text": "also about energy performance and the opportunities for solar",
          "startTime": "00:20:24,852",
          "endTime": "00:20:28,672"
        },
        {
          "index": 367,
          "text": "panels and battery systems and all of that.",
          "startTime": "00:20:28,771",
          "endTime": "00:20:31,012"
        },
        {
          "index": 368,
          "text": "This system gave the most opportunity for that.",
          "startTime": "00:20:31,392",
          "endTime": "00:20:34,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 369,
          "text": "Financial stewardship. There's a lot of ways to look at budget and",
          "startTime": "00:20:36,272",
          "endTime": "00:20:40,152"
        },
        {
          "index": 370,
          "text": "financial stewardship. We took the approach of this is a way to",
          "startTime": "00:20:40,192",
          "endTime": "00:20:44,132"
        },
        {
          "index": 371,
          "text": "meet the goals that we had outlined for the least amount of long-term costs.",
          "startTime": "00:20:44,192",
          "endTime": "00:20:47,832"
        },
        {
          "index": 372,
          "text": "And so of the options that we were presenting, this option actually comes with",
          "startTime": "00:20:48,472",
          "endTime": "00:20:52,392"
        },
        {
          "index": 373,
          "text": "this.",
          "startTime": "00:20:52,492",
          "endTime": "00:20:52,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 374,
          "text": "From an accessibility standpoint, when we initially started the",
          "startTime": "00:20:54,832",
          "endTime": "00:20:58,652"
        },
        {
          "index": 375,
          "text": "concept design, looking at the",
          "startTime": "00:20:58,732",
          "endTime": "00:21:01,472"
        },
        {
          "index": 376,
          "text": "civic campus in particular, the existing city hall has",
          "startTime": "00:21:02,512",
          "endTime": "00:21:05,962"
        },
        {
          "index": 377,
          "text": "accessibility challenges. It is designed in a very traditional manner, which means",
          "startTime": "00:21:06,012",
          "endTime": "00:21:09,912"
        },
        {
          "index": 378,
          "text": "the first floor is, if I remember correctly, about seven feet up.",
          "startTime": "00:21:09,932",
          "endTime": "00:21:13,221"
        },
        {
          "index": 379,
          "text": "That represents a pretty significant barrier for anybody who's in a wheelchair.",
          "startTime": "00:21:13,932",
          "endTime": "00:21:17,672"
        },
        {
          "index": 380,
          "text": "Currently, I'm sure as you all know, if you're using a wheelchair to go",
          "startTime": "00:21:18,632",
          "endTime": "00:21:22,572"
        },
        {
          "index": 381,
          "text": "into city hall, you have to go through the back door, find your way to an elevator,",
          "startTime": "00:21:22,592",
          "endTime": "00:21:26,312"
        },
        {
          "index": 382,
          "text": "and come up midway through the building.",
          "startTime": "00:21:26,492",
          "endTime": "00:21:28,152"
        },
        {
          "index": 383,
          "text": "If city halls are intended to welcome every resident",
          "startTime": "00:21:29,032",
          "endTime": "00:21:32,132"
        },
        {
          "index": 384,
          "text": "in the most",
          "startTime": "00:21:32,992",
          "endTime": "00:21:33,512"
        },
        {
          "index": 385,
          "text": "thoughtful and compassionate, caring way, the existing building really",
          "startTime": "00:21:34,672",
          "endTime": "00:21:38,412"
        },
        {
          "index": 386,
          "text": "doesn't.",
          "startTime": "00:21:38,432",
          "endTime": "00:21:38,932"
        },
        {
          "index": 387,
          "text": "It's not to say that we didn't explore ways to solve that problem, but they came",
          "startTime": "00:21:40,392",
          "endTime": "00:21:44,212"
        },
        {
          "index": 388,
          "text": "at significant expense or didn't really meet the intent.",
          "startTime": "00:21:44,292",
          "endTime": "00:21:47,612"
        },
        {
          "index": 389,
          "text": "Lastly, we talked about the potential community amenity that",
          "startTime": "00:21:49,652",
          "endTime": "00:21:53,602"
        },
        {
          "index": 390,
          "text": "these projects could create.",
          "startTime": "00:21:53,652",
          "endTime": "00:21:55,692"
        },
        {
          "index": 391,
          "text": "And that's really about resident engagement.",
          "startTime": "00:21:56,612",
          "endTime": "00:21:59,532"
        },
        {
          "index": 392,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:22:00,322",
          "endTime": "00:22:00,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 393,
          "text": "And so the plaza existed in most of the options, and that's a",
          "startTime": "00:22:00,352",
          "endTime": "00:22:04,162"
        },
        {
          "index": 394,
          "text": "fantastic opportunity for civic events, and it goes a long",
          "startTime": "00:22:04,892",
          "endTime": "00:22:08,792"
        },
        {
          "index": 395,
          "text": "way towards bringing people downtown, which we'll talk about later when we talk",
          "startTime": "00:22:08,832",
          "endTime": "00:22:12,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 396,
          "text": "about downtown vitality. But this option",
          "startTime": "00:22:12,472",
          "endTime": "00:22:15,972"
        },
        {
          "index": 397,
          "text": "allowed for the most potential public meeting",
          "startTime": "00:22:16,072",
          "endTime": "00:22:19,752"
        },
        {
          "index": 398,
          "text": "space within the civic campus lot.",
          "startTime": "00:22:19,872",
          "endTime": "00:22:21,972"
        },
        {
          "index": 399,
          "text": "The other options that we presented at the time were more about just",
          "startTime": "00:22:22,512",
          "endTime": "00:22:25,872"
        },
        {
          "index": 400,
          "text": "administration or trying to have public meeting space",
          "startTime": "00:22:25,892",
          "endTime": "00:22:29,592"
        },
        {
          "index": 401,
          "text": "in the existing city hall only. Again, back to that notion of accessible.",
          "startTime": "00:22:29,772",
          "endTime": "00:22:33,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 402,
          "text": "Go ahead and move forward at that point, unless there's any comments on it.",
          "startTime": "00:22:37,232",
          "endTime": "00:22:40,592"
        },
        {
          "index": 403,
          "text": "Okay, so",
          "startTime": "00:22:44,992",
          "endTime": "00:22:45,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 404,
          "text": "we're going to take a little bit of time with this graphic.",
          "startTime": "00:22:46,692",
          "endTime": "00:22:49,072"
        },
        {
          "index": 405,
          "text": "We showed it to you back in November of 2024.",
          "startTime": "00:22:49,192",
          "endTime": "00:22:52,812"
        },
        {
          "index": 406,
          "text": "But this represents pretty much the fundamental challenge in",
          "startTime": "00:22:53,472",
          "endTime": "00:22:57,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 407,
          "text": "terms of creating public facilities, or frankly, any",
          "startTime": "00:22:57,272",
          "endTime": "00:23:00,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 408,
          "text": "facility from a time and construction standpoint.",
          "startTime": "00:23:00,832",
          "endTime": "00:23:02,872"
        },
        {
          "index": 409,
          "text": "So what this graphic represents is the time scale",
          "startTime": "00:23:04,012",
          "endTime": "00:23:07,992"
        },
        {
          "index": 410,
          "text": "from left to right, beginning from 1980 to",
          "startTime": "00:23:08,052",
          "endTime": "00:23:11,692"
        },
        {
          "index": 411,
          "text": "2060.",
          "startTime": "00:23:11,972",
          "endTime": "00:23:12,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 412,
          "text": "And what it is here to show you is the cost or impact of",
          "startTime": "00:23:13,292",
          "endTime": "00:23:16,792"
        },
        {
          "index": 413,
          "text": "escalation, specifically construction escalation, over",
          "startTime": "00:23:16,832",
          "endTime": "00:23:20,792"
        },
        {
          "index": 414,
          "text": "time.",
          "startTime": "00:23:20,852",
          "endTime": "00:23:21,132"
        },
        {
          "index": 415,
          "text": "So we made a couple of modifications",
          "startTime": "00:23:22,952",
          "endTime": "00:23:26,392"
        },
        {
          "index": 416,
          "text": "to this diagram since we last showed it to you.",
          "startTime": "00:23:26,452",
          "endTime": "00:23:29,352"
        },
        {
          "index": 417,
          "text": "Before I get to that, let me explain the diagram a little bit.",
          "startTime": "00:23:30,112",
          "endTime": "00:23:32,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 418,
          "text": "From the orange dot in the middle that represents today, moving backward",
          "startTime": "00:23:33,472",
          "endTime": "00:23:37,352"
        },
        {
          "index": 419,
          "text": "in time, the numbers that are provided are",
          "startTime": "00:23:37,392",
          "endTime": "00:23:40,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 420,
          "text": "using what is called the Engineer News Record.",
          "startTime": "00:23:41,472",
          "endTime": "00:23:44,592"
        },
        {
          "index": 421,
          "text": "Basically, they track escalation over time.",
          "startTime": "00:23:46,812",
          "endTime": "00:23:49,052"
        },
        {
          "index": 422,
          "text": "So it's the actual escalation for construction that has",
          "startTime": "00:23:49,112",
          "endTime": "00:23:52,752"
        },
        {
          "index": 423,
          "text": "happened over that time. From the orange dot to",
          "startTime": "00:23:52,792",
          "endTime": "00:23:56,752"
        },
        {
          "index": 424,
          "text": "the right, that represents 6% of escalation",
          "startTime": "00:23:56,792",
          "endTime": "00:24:00,742"
        },
        {
          "index": 425,
          "text": "per year, which is the current going rate.",
          "startTime": "00:24:00,832",
          "endTime": "00:24:03,312"
        },
        {
          "index": 426,
          "text": "When you talk to a contractor or a construction estimator,",
          "startTime": "00:24:03,572",
          "endTime": "00:24:06,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 427,
          "text": "that's the number that they use when they're trying to figure out how much a",
          "startTime": "00:24:07,922",
          "endTime": "00:24:11,142"
        },
        {
          "index": 428,
          "text": "project is going to cost in the future.",
          "startTime": "00:24:11,212",
          "endTime": "00:24:13,332"
        },
        {
          "index": 429,
          "text": "So the change that we made is that when",
          "startTime": "00:24:15,452",
          "endTime": "00:24:19,432"
        },
        {
          "index": 430,
          "text": "we first presented this to you, we didn't know which option council was going to",
          "startTime": "00:24:19,452",
          "endTime": "00:24:23,192"
        },
        {
          "index": 431,
          "text": "choose. So we just picked a number, and it was 200 million, and that was",
          "startTime": "00:24:23,252",
          "endTime": "00:24:26,692"
        },
        {
          "index": 432,
          "text": "our-Baseline number to show how the escalation",
          "startTime": "00:24:26,752",
          "endTime": "00:24:30,682"
        },
        {
          "index": 433,
          "text": "is going to change. We've now changed the numbers to reflect",
          "startTime": "00:24:30,702",
          "endTime": "00:24:33,842"
        },
        {
          "index": 434,
          "text": "the option that we chose and the cost of what that said.",
          "startTime": "00:24:34,602",
          "endTime": "00:24:37,182"
        },
        {
          "index": 435,
          "text": "The other thing that we have done is that the",
          "startTime": "00:24:38,692",
          "endTime": "00:24:42,222"
        },
        {
          "index": 436,
          "text": "large blue dot in the middle that says 2027,",
          "startTime": "00:24:43,342",
          "endTime": "00:24:45,802"
        },
        {
          "index": 437,
          "text": "if we had started the project",
          "startTime": "00:24:47,202",
          "endTime": "00:24:48,682"
        },
        {
          "index": 438,
          "text": "December of 2024, the bid date for",
          "startTime": "00:24:49,782",
          "endTime": "00:24:52,902"
        },
        {
          "index": 439,
          "text": "construction would have been in 2027, and the cost of the",
          "startTime": "00:24:53,002",
          "endTime": "00:24:56,642"
        },
        {
          "index": 440,
          "text": "project would have been",
          "startTime": "00:24:56,702",
          "endTime": "00:24:57,382"
        },
        {
          "index": 441,
          "text": "188. The",
          "startTime": "00:24:57,482",
          "endTime": "00:25:01,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 442,
          "text": "orange dot next to it represents the escalation that's",
          "startTime": "00:25:01,822",
          "endTime": "00:25:05,802"
        },
        {
          "index": 443,
          "text": "going to happen for us to actually get the project if we started",
          "startTime": "00:25:05,842",
          "endTime": "00:25:09,742"
        },
        {
          "index": 444,
          "text": "today. And I want to pause here just for a second.",
          "startTime": "00:25:09,942",
          "endTime": "00:25:12,522"
        },
        {
          "index": 445,
          "text": "And Mark, we chose that 2029 number both from",
          "startTime": "00:25:12,662",
          "endTime": "00:25:16,582"
        },
        {
          "index": 446,
          "text": "what the design team and construction team needs, but also potential",
          "startTime": "00:25:16,622",
          "endTime": "00:25:20,542"
        },
        {
          "index": 447,
          "text": "funding timeline. Is that correct?",
          "startTime": "00:25:20,622",
          "endTime": "00:25:23,002"
        },
        {
          "index": 448,
          "text": "That's correct.",
          "startTime": "00:25:23,342",
          "endTime": "00:25:23,882"
        },
        {
          "index": 449,
          "text": "Great.",
          "startTime": "00:25:24,742",
          "endTime": "00:25:24,882"
        },
        {
          "index": 450,
          "text": "So can I just clarify?",
          "startTime": "00:25:24,962",
          "endTime": "00:25:26,462"
        },
        {
          "index": 451,
          "text": "Yes, please.",
          "startTime": "00:25:27,222",
          "endTime": "00:25:27,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 452,
          "text": "The 2029, when Ian says starting today, he doesn't mean",
          "startTime": "00:25:27,242",
          "endTime": "00:25:31,002"
        },
        {
          "index": 453,
          "text": "starting construction today.",
          "startTime": "00:25:31,082",
          "endTime": "00:25:32,202"
        },
        {
          "index": 454,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:25:32,232",
          "endTime": "00:25:32,232"
        },
        {
          "index": 455,
          "text": "He means starting the process of full design to construction documents today.",
          "startTime": "00:25:32,242",
          "endTime": "00:25:36,082"
        },
        {
          "index": 456,
          "text": "Yes. Thanks, Mary. So the giant orange dot in the middle that says",
          "startTime": "00:25:36,142",
          "endTime": "00:25:40,082"
        },
        {
          "index": 457,
          "text": "today is if we bid the project today, which of course we",
          "startTime": "00:25:40,142",
          "endTime": "00:25:43,802"
        },
        {
          "index": 458,
          "text": "can't because we need time to design.",
          "startTime": "00:25:43,862",
          "endTime": "00:25:45,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 459,
          "text": "The last thing I want to point out is the small three dots to the left",
          "startTime": "00:25:47,202",
          "endTime": "00:25:50,662"
        },
        {
          "index": 460,
          "text": "represent the past opportunities that the city has",
          "startTime": "00:25:51,702",
          "endTime": "00:25:54,802"
        },
        {
          "index": 461,
          "text": "had to",
          "startTime": "00:25:54,882",
          "endTime": "00:25:56,122"
        },
        {
          "index": 462,
          "text": "do facilities",
          "startTime": "00:25:57,022",
          "endTime": "00:25:58,002"
        },
        {
          "index": 463,
          "text": "master plans.",
          "startTime": "00:25:59,802",
          "endTime": "00:26:00,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 464,
          "text": "I bring this every meeting.",
          "startTime": "00:26:01,102",
          "endTime": "00:26:02,842"
        },
        {
          "index": 465,
          "text": "Other times, the city has stepped up to the line and stepped away.",
          "startTime": "00:26:03,862",
          "endTime": "00:26:07,282"
        },
        {
          "index": 466,
          "text": "And so considering the amount of money that you're considering",
          "startTime": "00:26:08,142",
          "endTime": "00:26:11,822"
        },
        {
          "index": 467,
          "text": "spending, that's how much that same money would've been back in",
          "startTime": "00:26:12,782",
          "endTime": "00:26:16,402"
        },
        {
          "index": 468,
          "text": "1988.",
          "startTime": "00:26:17,342",
          "endTime": "00:26:18,442"
        },
        {
          "index": 469,
          "text": "1988.",
          "startTime": "00:26:18,472",
          "endTime": "00:26:18,472"
        },
        {
          "index": 470,
          "text": "Sorry.",
          "startTime": "00:26:18,522",
          "endTime": "00:26:19,542"
        },
        {
          "index": 471,
          "text": "2015.",
          "startTime": "00:26:19,552",
          "endTime": "00:26:20,502"
        },
        {
          "index": 472,
          "text": "2015.",
          "startTime": "00:26:20,512",
          "endTime": "00:26:21,742"
        },
        {
          "index": 473,
          "text": "The last comment I'll make is that because escalation is moving",
          "startTime": "00:26:23,742",
          "endTime": "00:26:27,702"
        },
        {
          "index": 474,
          "text": "at 6% per year, that means 5% per month.",
          "startTime": "00:26:27,742",
          "endTime": "00:26:30,952"
        },
        {
          "index": 475,
          "text": "And so when you look at the lower orange dot for 2029, it's",
          "startTime": "00:26:31,682",
          "endTime": "00:26:35,362"
        },
        {
          "index": 476,
          "text": "1.05 million per month of escalation passed.",
          "startTime": "00:26:35,662",
          "endTime": "00:26:39,282"
        },
        {
          "index": 477,
          "text": "You mean point.",
          "startTime": "00:26:40,122",
          "endTime": "00:26:40,762"
        },
        {
          "index": 478,
          "text": "Yeah, point. 0.5.",
          "startTime": "00:26:40,922",
          "endTime": "00:26:41,732"
        },
        {
          "index": 479,
          "text": "0.5.",
          "startTime": "00:26:42,102",
          "endTime": "00:26:42,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 481,
          "text": "said 5%. Sorry.",
          "startTime": "00:26:43,242",
          "endTime": "00:26:44,162"
        },
        {
          "index": 482,
          "text": "That would be very expensive.",
          "startTime": "00:26:44,482",
          "endTime": "00:26:47,942"
        },
        {
          "index": 483,
          "text": "My fault. It's 0.5. But it still represents a really",
          "startTime": "00:26:48,102",
          "endTime": "00:26:51,662"
        },
        {
          "index": 484,
          "text": "significant number.",
          "startTime": "00:26:51,722",
          "endTime": "00:26:52,682"
        },
        {
          "index": 485,
          "text": "Can I ask a question-",
          "startTime": "00:26:53,522",
          "endTime": "00:26:54,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 486,
          "text": "Yes, please",
          "startTime": "00:26:54,502",
          "endTime": "00:26:54,672"
        },
        {
          "index": 487,
          "text": "... before we move on from that?",
          "startTime": "00:26:54,782",
          "endTime": "00:26:56,202"
        },
        {
          "index": 488,
          "text": "Yes.",
          "startTime": "00:26:57,472",
          "endTime": "00:26:57,472"
        },
        {
          "index": 489,
          "text": "Do you feel like the current environment will make that number",
          "startTime": "00:26:58,002",
          "endTime": "00:27:01,942"
        },
        {
          "index": 490,
          "text": "change potentially? Or is this average over time through all these",
          "startTime": "00:27:02,002",
          "endTime": "00:27:05,992"
        },
        {
          "index": 491,
          "text": "different things, and so it's not likely to change much, or what?",
          "startTime": "00:27:06,022",
          "endTime": "00:27:09,802"
        },
        {
          "index": 492,
          "text": "It's a crystal ball.",
          "startTime": "00:27:10,482",
          "endTime": "00:27:11,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 493,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:27:11,562",
          "endTime": "00:27:11,882"
        },
        {
          "index": 494,
          "text": "What I will tell you is that there was another graph that we didn't bring, I",
          "startTime": "00:27:12,402",
          "endTime": "00:27:16,202"
        },
        {
          "index": 495,
          "text": "apologize, but it shows the arc of the escalation",
          "startTime": "00:27:16,242",
          "endTime": "00:27:19,862"
        },
        {
          "index": 496,
          "text": "from when the Engineering News-Record started calculating it from,",
          "startTime": "00:27:19,942",
          "endTime": "00:27:23,362"
        },
        {
          "index": 497,
          "text": "I'm going to get this wrong, it's either 1912 or 1915. Right?",
          "startTime": "00:27:24,062",
          "endTime": "00:27:27,702"
        },
        {
          "index": 498,
          "text": "And there's only two times that the number went negative.",
          "startTime": "00:27:28,162",
          "endTime": "00:27:31,162"
        },
        {
          "index": 499,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "00:27:31,722",
          "endTime": "00:27:31,812"
        },
        {
          "index": 500,
          "text": "Once was the Great Recession",
          "startTime": "00:27:32,202",
          "endTime": "00:27:33,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 501,
          "text": "and once was the Great Depression.",
          "startTime": "00:27:34,162",
          "endTime": "00:27:35,262"
        },
        {
          "index": 502,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "00:27:35,362",
          "endTime": "00:27:35,662"
        },
        {
          "index": 503,
          "text": "As much as you want negative escalation for your project, there",
          "startTime": "00:27:36,102",
          "endTime": "00:27:40,062"
        },
        {
          "index": 504,
          "text": "are other consequences-",
          "startTime": "00:27:40,072",
          "endTime": "00:27:40,992"
        },
        {
          "index": 505,
          "text": "Sure",
          "startTime": "00:27:41,102",
          "endTime": "00:27:41,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 506,
          "text": "... on those scenarios.",
          "startTime": "00:27:41,502",
          "endTime": "00:27:42,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 507,
          "text": "We're in a moment of",
          "startTime": "00:27:44,582",
          "endTime": "00:27:46,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 508,
          "text": "high volatility, right? And so I",
          "startTime": "00:27:47,742",
          "endTime": "00:27:51,182"
        },
        {
          "index": 509,
          "text": "think that",
          "startTime": "00:27:51,382",
          "endTime": "00:27:52,042"
        },
        {
          "index": 510,
          "text": "we're holding at 6%, but you can hit a",
          "startTime": "00:27:52,942",
          "endTime": "00:27:56,622"
        },
        {
          "index": 511,
          "text": "pocket of time relative to the market where you have spikes.",
          "startTime": "00:27:56,682",
          "endTime": "00:28:00,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 512,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:28:00,482",
          "endTime": "00:28:00,762"
        },
        {
          "index": 513,
          "text": "A good example is the last five weeks or so,",
          "startTime": "00:28:00,802",
          "endTime": "00:28:03,462"
        },
        {
          "index": 514,
          "text": "with the energy volatility that we've had.",
          "startTime": "00:28:04,362",
          "endTime": "00:28:06,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 515,
          "text": "That's kind of what I was getting at.",
          "startTime": "00:28:07,002",
          "endTime": "00:28:08,162"
        },
        {
          "index": 516,
          "text": "Yes.",
          "startTime": "00:28:08,222",
          "endTime": "00:28:08,462"
        },
        {
          "index": 517,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:28:08,522",
          "endTime": "00:28:08,682"
        },
        {
          "index": 518,
          "text": "Right. So there's always risk.",
          "startTime": "00:28:08,742",
          "endTime": "00:28:10,602"
        },
        {
          "index": 519,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:28:10,782",
          "endTime": "00:28:11,222"
        },
        {
          "index": 520,
          "text": "The fundamental rule is it never goes down.",
          "startTime": "00:28:11,702",
          "endTime": "00:28:14,762"
        },
        {
          "index": 521,
          "text": "It may flat line a little bit, but it doesn't go down.",
          "startTime": "00:28:15,442",
          "endTime": "00:28:18,022"
        },
        {
          "index": 522,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:28:18,102",
          "endTime": "00:28:18,362"
        },
        {
          "index": 523,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:28:19,262",
          "endTime": "00:28:19,402"
        },
        {
          "index": 524,
          "text": "I want to pause for questions here because I think this is central to",
          "startTime": "00:28:20,362",
          "endTime": "00:28:24,162"
        },
        {
          "index": 525,
          "text": "a lot of the scenarios that we're talking about.",
          "startTime": "00:28:24,882",
          "endTime": "00:28:27,362"
        },
        {
          "index": 526,
          "text": "Is there anything unclear about this overall idea about the escalation?",
          "startTime": "00:28:28,102",
          "endTime": "00:28:31,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 527,
          "text": "Yeah. Ian, just a quick question. The diagram you showed had",
          "startTime": "00:28:33,602",
          "endTime": "00:28:36,842"
        },
        {
          "index": 528,
          "text": "civic campus on the south side and police on the north, and we",
          "startTime": "00:28:37,862",
          "endTime": "00:28:41,602"
        },
        {
          "index": 529,
          "text": "talked about flipping that.",
          "startTime": "00:28:41,722",
          "endTime": "00:28:43,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 530,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "00:28:43,362",
          "endTime": "00:28:43,552"
        },
        {
          "index": 531,
          "text": "I suspect that does not materially affect the cost.",
          "startTime": "00:28:43,822",
          "endTime": "00:28:46,842"
        },
        {
          "index": 532,
          "text": "But is that a bad assumption or an okay one?",
          "startTime": "00:28:46,962",
          "endTime": "00:28:50,082"
        },
        {
          "index": 533,
          "text": "No, I think that's an okay assumption.",
          "startTime": "00:28:50,342",
          "endTime": "00:28:51,612"
        },
        {
          "index": 534,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:28:51,612",
          "endTime": "00:28:51,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 536,
          "text": "will get to some benefits. I guess it doesn't matter.",
          "startTime": "00:28:54,442",
          "endTime": "00:28:57,962"
        },
        {
          "index": 537,
          "text": "You sure?",
          "startTime": "00:28:58,102",
          "endTime": "00:28:58,681"
        },
        {
          "index": 538,
          "text": "Yeah. Thank you.",
          "startTime": "00:28:58,882",
          "endTime": "00:28:59,562"
        },
        {
          "index": 539,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:29:00,022",
          "endTime": "00:29:01,582"
        },
        {
          "index": 540,
          "text": "Yeah, the original plan that was presented to us was the other way around, and the",
          "startTime": "00:29:02,302",
          "endTime": "00:29:05,942"
        },
        {
          "index": 541,
          "text": "council said would it make more sense to have city hall on the south side for, I",
          "startTime": "00:29:06,002",
          "endTime": "00:29:09,282"
        },
        {
          "index": 542,
          "text": "think, for sun and",
          "startTime": "00:29:09,382",
          "endTime": "00:29:10,132"
        },
        {
          "index": 543,
          "text": "energy.",
          "startTime": "00:29:10,982",
          "endTime": "00:29:11,422"
        },
        {
          "index": 544,
          "text": "For sun and one of the options included a future",
          "startTime": "00:29:11,432",
          "endTime": "00:29:15,342"
        },
        {
          "index": 545,
          "text": "parking garage, which we didn't go with.",
          "startTime": "00:29:15,542",
          "endTime": "00:29:18,022"
        },
        {
          "index": 546,
          "text": "But that was part of the rationale.",
          "startTime": "00:29:18,822",
          "endTime": "00:29:20,382"
        },
        {
          "index": 547,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:29:20,522",
          "endTime": "00:29:20,822"
        },
        {
          "index": 548,
          "text": "Mm-hmm. Other thoughts or questions? Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:29:21,022",
          "endTime": "00:29:23,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 549,
          "text": "The thing not shown on this slide is the change in our",
          "startTime": "00:29:25,342",
          "endTime": "00:29:28,982"
        },
        {
          "index": 550,
          "text": "ability to pay for these things.",
          "startTime": "00:29:29,022",
          "endTime": "00:29:30,622"
        },
        {
          "index": 551,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "00:29:30,642",
          "endTime": "00:29:30,922"
        },
        {
          "index": 552,
          "text": "I'm",
          "startTime": "00:29:31,582",
          "endTime": "00:29:31,652"
        },
        {
          "index": 553,
          "text": "well aware of the fact that revenue",
          "startTime": "00:29:32,502",
          "endTime": "00:29:34,482"
        },
        {
          "index": 554,
          "text": "hasn't gone up 6% a",
          "startTime": "00:29:34,502",
          "endTime": "00:29:38,482"
        },
        {
          "index": 555,
          "text": "year or so.",
          "startTime": "00:29:38,522",
          "endTime": "00:29:39,082"
        },
        {
          "index": 556,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:29:39,562",
          "endTime": "00:29:39,772"
        },
        {
          "index": 557,
          "text": "It's separating farther.",
          "startTime": "00:29:39,822",
          "endTime": "00:29:42,322"
        },
        {
          "index": 558,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:29:42,532",
          "endTime": "00:29:42,532"
        },
        {
          "index": 559,
          "text": "But still, that's also not shown, and so that creates",
          "startTime": "00:29:42,542",
          "endTime": "00:29:46,262"
        },
        {
          "index": 560,
          "text": "another factor-",
          "startTime": "00:29:46,302",
          "endTime": "00:29:47,462"
        },
        {
          "index": 561,
          "text": "Yes",
          "startTime": "00:29:47,622",
          "endTime": "00:29:47,902"
        },
        {
          "index": 562,
          "text": "... and it happens over time.",
          "startTime": "00:29:47,922",
          "endTime": "00:29:49,862"
        },
        {
          "index": 563,
          "text": "Yeah. And there's another point, and I'll bring it up later, is",
          "startTime": "00:29:50,262",
          "endTime": "00:29:53,632"
        },
        {
          "index": 564,
          "text": "that if the construction escalation is at",
          "startTime": "00:29:53,722",
          "endTime": "00:29:56,672"
        },
        {
          "index": 565,
          "text": "6% average,",
          "startTime": "00:29:56,902",
          "endTime": "00:29:58,702"
        },
        {
          "index": 566,
          "text": "consumer price index is only at 2.8 or between three and",
          "startTime": "00:29:59,742",
          "endTime": "00:30:03,442"
        },
        {
          "index": 567,
          "text": "four normally. So public perception of what something",
          "startTime": "00:30:03,502",
          "endTime": "00:30:07,462"
        },
        {
          "index": 568,
          "text": "should cost is out of whack because the escalation is",
          "startTime": "00:30:07,482",
          "endTime": "00:30:11,202"
        },
        {
          "index": 569,
          "text": "moving at double the rate.",
          "startTime": "00:30:11,242",
          "endTime": "00:30:12,362"
        },
        {
          "index": 570,
          "text": "For construction.",
          "startTime": "00:30:13,142",
          "endTime": "00:30:13,782"
        },
        {
          "index": 571,
          "text": "For construction.",
          "startTime": "00:30:13,802",
          "endTime": "00:30:14,642"
        },
        {
          "index": 572,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:30:14,862",
          "endTime": "00:30:15,042"
        },
        {
          "index": 573,
          "text": "And so when you talk about talking to the community about funding,",
          "startTime": "00:30:15,222",
          "endTime": "00:30:18,722"
        },
        {
          "index": 574,
          "text": "inherently everyone thinks that construction costs way too much because it",
          "startTime": "00:30:20,642",
          "endTime": "00:30:24,602"
        },
        {
          "index": 575,
          "text": "doesn't match their day-to-day inflation over time.",
          "startTime": "00:30:24,642",
          "endTime": "00:30:27,822"
        },
        {
          "index": 576,
          "text": "So I'll bring that up",
          "startTime": "00:30:28,662",
          "endTime": "00:30:30,412"
        },
        {
          "index": 577,
          "text": "again.Okay. I'm going to go ahead and move",
          "startTime": "00:30:30,462",
          "endTime": "00:30:34,286"
        },
        {
          "index": 578,
          "text": "forward. We can come back to this diagram if it's helpful.",
          "startTime": "00:30:34,326",
          "endTime": "00:30:36,746"
        },
        {
          "index": 579,
          "text": "Okay. So we have a series of implementation strategies.",
          "startTime": "00:30:38,946",
          "endTime": "00:30:42,206"
        },
        {
          "index": 580,
          "text": "And we're going to start with",
          "startTime": "00:30:44,226",
          "endTime": "00:30:45,666"
        },
        {
          "index": 581,
          "text": "the common impacts of the whole vision being",
          "startTime": "00:30:46,826",
          "endTime": "00:30:50,346"
        },
        {
          "index": 582,
          "text": "finished. And that is both the civic campus",
          "startTime": "00:30:50,426",
          "endTime": "00:30:54,266"
        },
        {
          "index": 583,
          "text": "and the police station have been built on Madison with a plaza.",
          "startTime": "00:30:54,286",
          "endTime": "00:30:57,686"
        },
        {
          "index": 584,
          "text": "And so when that is complete, whenever,",
          "startTime": "00:30:59,406",
          "endTime": "00:31:03,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 585,
          "text": "whatever sort of sequence that happens,",
          "startTime": "00:31:03,046",
          "endTime": "00:31:04,886"
        },
        {
          "index": 586,
          "text": "we've established the 100-year Madison Avenue vision to move a central civic hub",
          "startTime": "00:31:06,106",
          "endTime": "00:31:09,806"
        },
        {
          "index": 587,
          "text": "downtown. For those of you who don't know, it has been a 100-year",
          "startTime": "00:31:09,846",
          "endTime": "00:31:13,446"
        },
        {
          "index": 588,
          "text": "vision to make Madison a major pedestrian thoroughfare",
          "startTime": "00:31:13,486",
          "endTime": "00:31:17,406"
        },
        {
          "index": 589,
          "text": "from the gates of campus down to the river, and that the",
          "startTime": "00:31:17,526",
          "endTime": "00:31:20,966"
        },
        {
          "index": 590,
          "text": "civic heart of the city is located at the Mocade Lawn.",
          "startTime": "00:31:21,606",
          "endTime": "00:31:24,486"
        },
        {
          "index": 591,
          "text": "And it's been in different spots, depending on which version of that plan has",
          "startTime": "00:31:25,266",
          "endTime": "00:31:29,186"
        },
        {
          "index": 592,
          "text": "existed, but this actually puts it square",
          "startTime": "00:31:29,226",
          "endTime": "00:31:32,766"
        },
        {
          "index": 593,
          "text": "on Madison. It also puts it at the gateway position to downtown.",
          "startTime": "00:31:33,286",
          "endTime": "00:31:36,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 594,
          "text": "So if someone's coming from campus to the river, the first thing that they hit when",
          "startTime": "00:31:37,486",
          "endTime": "00:31:41,086"
        },
        {
          "index": 595,
          "text": "they get to downtown is a civic idea.",
          "startTime": "00:31:41,126",
          "endTime": "00:31:43,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 596,
          "text": "The next is that the project contributes to downtown vitality, the daily activity",
          "startTime": "00:31:46,446",
          "endTime": "00:31:50,406"
        },
        {
          "index": 597,
          "text": "from employees, visitors, and civic functions.",
          "startTime": "00:31:50,446",
          "endTime": "00:31:52,506"
        },
        {
          "index": 598,
          "text": "When we talk about civic functions, you have residents who are coming to this",
          "startTime": "00:31:52,986",
          "endTime": "00:31:55,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 599,
          "text": "facility both to seek services, but also to use",
          "startTime": "00:31:56,026",
          "endTime": "00:31:59,646"
        },
        {
          "index": 600,
          "text": "the further down point of gathering spaces and",
          "startTime": "00:32:01,006",
          "endTime": "00:32:04,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 601,
          "text": "attending civic events.",
          "startTime": "00:32:04,886",
          "endTime": "00:32:05,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 602,
          "text": "We maintain public safety and city administration at the center of the community.",
          "startTime": "00:32:07,966",
          "endTime": "00:32:11,486"
        },
        {
          "index": 603,
          "text": "We haven't relocated to some other location.",
          "startTime": "00:32:12,086",
          "endTime": "00:32:15,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 604,
          "text": "Other communities have found cheaper land outside of city limits, or not",
          "startTime": "00:32:15,186",
          "endTime": "00:32:19,046"
        },
        {
          "index": 605,
          "text": "outside city limits, but outside downtown cores.",
          "startTime": "00:32:19,106",
          "endTime": "00:32:21,666"
        },
        {
          "index": 606,
          "text": "This keeps it as sort of vital to downtown.",
          "startTime": "00:32:22,086",
          "endTime": "00:32:24,706"
        },
        {
          "index": 607,
          "text": "We've created opportunities for public gathering space and civic events in the",
          "startTime": "00:32:26,226",
          "endTime": "00:32:30,166"
        },
        {
          "index": 608,
          "text": "downtown core, which again, brings people here, who then when they finish",
          "startTime": "00:32:30,226",
          "endTime": "00:32:34,166"
        },
        {
          "index": 609,
          "text": "with that, they go shopping. They go down, grab a bite to eat, grab a cup of",
          "startTime": "00:32:34,206",
          "endTime": "00:32:37,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 610,
          "text": "coffee.",
          "startTime": "00:32:37,866",
          "endTime": "00:32:38,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 611,
          "text": "One thing that has happened between when we last spoke and now",
          "startTime": "00:32:40,346",
          "endTime": "00:32:44,326"
        },
        {
          "index": 612,
          "text": "is that you've had the Downtown Vitality Strategic Task",
          "startTime": "00:32:44,486",
          "endTime": "00:32:48,286"
        },
        {
          "index": 613,
          "text": "Force, and they have been looking at what the opportunities are",
          "startTime": "00:32:48,346",
          "endTime": "00:32:52,246"
        },
        {
          "index": 614,
          "text": "to bring more vitality to downtown, and I think that's",
          "startTime": "00:32:52,326",
          "endTime": "00:32:56,206"
        },
        {
          "index": 615,
          "text": "somewhat timely because I believe these goals were just presented to you recently.",
          "startTime": "00:32:56,406",
          "endTime": "00:32:59,746"
        },
        {
          "index": 616,
          "text": "We've sort of gone back and looked at those and seen how these projects sort of",
          "startTime": "00:33:01,906",
          "endTime": "00:33:05,626"
        },
        {
          "index": 617,
          "text": "plug into that.",
          "startTime": "00:33:06,046",
          "endTime": "00:33:06,906"
        },
        {
          "index": 618,
          "text": "They plug in directly because some of the goals are, \"Hey, let's do the",
          "startTime": "00:33:09,446",
          "endTime": "00:33:13,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 619,
          "text": "civic campus downtown, let's do the police station downtown.\"",
          "startTime": "00:33:13,426",
          "endTime": "00:33:15,866"
        },
        {
          "index": 620,
          "text": "But there are some that are less tangential or sorry, more tangential than",
          "startTime": "00:33:16,926",
          "endTime": "00:33:20,426"
        },
        {
          "index": 621,
          "text": "others.",
          "startTime": "00:33:20,486",
          "endTime": "00:33:21,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 622,
          "text": "There's a desire for an economic boost, right?",
          "startTime": "00:33:23,066",
          "endTime": "00:33:26,326"
        },
        {
          "index": 623,
          "text": "Keeping the",
          "startTime": "00:33:26,506",
          "endTime": "00:33:27,426"
        },
        {
          "index": 624,
          "text": "staff downtown to be able to support businesses during lunch hours and things",
          "startTime": "00:33:28,886",
          "endTime": "00:33:32,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 625,
          "text": "like that, both for city hall staff and also",
          "startTime": "00:33:32,866",
          "endTime": "00:33:36,406"
        },
        {
          "index": 626,
          "text": "for the police. That's a direct economic",
          "startTime": "00:33:36,466",
          "endTime": "00:33:39,946"
        },
        {
          "index": 627,
          "text": "boost.",
          "startTime": "00:33:40,566",
          "endTime": "00:33:40,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 628,
          "text": "Also when there are community events, that you're bringing more people",
          "startTime": "00:33:41,446",
          "endTime": "00:33:45,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 629,
          "text": "downtown, it's the same thing.",
          "startTime": "00:33:45,226",
          "endTime": "00:33:46,646"
        },
        {
          "index": 630,
          "text": "On that topic of economic boost, one of the other goals within the task",
          "startTime": "00:33:48,366",
          "endTime": "00:33:52,286"
        },
        {
          "index": 631,
          "text": "force is housing.",
          "startTime": "00:33:52,366",
          "endTime": "00:33:53,306"
        },
        {
          "index": 632,
          "text": "Most housing, if not all housing, even",
          "startTime": "00:33:54,306",
          "endTime": "00:33:57,486"
        },
        {
          "index": 633,
          "text": "affordable housing, is still driven primarily by private development.",
          "startTime": "00:33:57,986",
          "endTime": "00:34:01,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 634,
          "text": "Private development is looking for spaces that are vital,",
          "startTime": "00:34:02,566",
          "endTime": "00:34:06,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 635,
          "text": "the old adage of location, location, location-",
          "startTime": "00:34:06,886",
          "endTime": "00:34:08,917"
        },
        {
          "index": 636,
          "text": "Mm.",
          "startTime": "00:34:09,026",
          "endTime": "00:34:09,187"
        },
        {
          "index": 637,
          "text": "Because it helps them keep their vacancy rates down.",
          "startTime": "00:34:09,406",
          "endTime": "00:34:11,756"
        },
        {
          "index": 638,
          "text": "So the more active downtown can be and more desirable to live, the more",
          "startTime": "00:34:12,426",
          "endTime": "00:34:16,326"
        },
        {
          "index": 639,
          "text": "likely you can encourage that investment to house.",
          "startTime": "00:34:16,366",
          "endTime": "00:34:18,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 640,
          "text": "A lot of the downtown goals also focus",
          "startTime": "00:34:20,426",
          "endTime": "00:34:23,946"
        },
        {
          "index": 641,
          "text": "on quality of street experience. What happens with the infrastructure, how do",
          "startTime": "00:34:24,086",
          "endTime": "00:34:28,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 642,
          "text": "we improve the sidewalks, the curbs, lighting, all the things that go",
          "startTime": "00:34:28,046",
          "endTime": "00:34:31,946"
        },
        {
          "index": 643,
          "text": "along the street scene.",
          "startTime": "00:34:32,006",
          "endTime": "00:34:32,826"
        },
        {
          "index": 644,
          "text": "The opportunity to do the plaza first and set the standard",
          "startTime": "00:34:34,266",
          "endTime": "00:34:38,167"
        },
        {
          "index": 645,
          "text": "that the rest of the street might follow, I think is a pretty",
          "startTime": "00:34:38,226",
          "endTime": "00:34:41,955"
        },
        {
          "index": 646,
          "text": "great opportunity.",
          "startTime": "00:34:42,406",
          "endTime": "00:34:44,366"
        },
        {
          "index": 647,
          "text": "The notion of social infrastructure.",
          "startTime": "00:34:45,586",
          "endTime": "00:34:47,566"
        },
        {
          "index": 648,
          "text": "If anyone was able to go to the",
          "startTime": "00:34:49,365",
          "endTime": "00:34:52,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 649,
          "text": "2022 League of Oregon Cities keynote,",
          "startTime": "00:34:52,226",
          "endTime": "00:34:55,326"
        },
        {
          "index": 650,
          "text": "Eric Klinenberg, who is the author of \"Palaces for the People.\"",
          "startTime": "00:34:56,306",
          "endTime": "00:34:59,446"
        },
        {
          "index": 651,
          "text": "Mm.",
          "startTime": "00:34:59,566",
          "endTime": "00:34:59,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 652,
          "text": "He talks a lot about-",
          "startTime": "00:35:00,486",
          "endTime": "00:35:01,966"
        },
        {
          "index": 653,
          "text": "One of my favorite books.",
          "startTime": "00:35:02,146",
          "endTime": "00:35:03,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 654,
          "text": "Absolutely. It's great.",
          "startTime": "00:35:03,226",
          "endTime": "00:35:04,226"
        },
        {
          "index": 655,
          "text": "He talks a lot about",
          "startTime": "00:35:05,266",
          "endTime": "00:35:06,746"
        },
        {
          "index": 656,
          "text": "how we are slowly losing what we call social infrastructure,",
          "startTime": "00:35:07,726",
          "endTime": "00:35:11,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 657,
          "text": "and it's really what we call third spaces. Mark, you and I have talked about that.",
          "startTime": "00:35:11,706",
          "endTime": "00:35:15,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 658,
          "text": "It's the spaces that people can interact where they don't have to spend a dime,",
          "startTime": "00:35:15,366",
          "endTime": "00:35:18,426"
        },
        {
          "index": 659,
          "text": "right? Libraries are one of the last examples of that.",
          "startTime": "00:35:19,106",
          "endTime": "00:35:21,506"
        },
        {
          "index": 660,
          "text": "He makes a case in his book and in the keynote that he gave, that not",
          "startTime": "00:35:24,386",
          "endTime": "00:35:28,246"
        },
        {
          "index": 661,
          "text": "only are those things nice to have for a community, they're actually",
          "startTime": "00:35:28,306",
          "endTime": "00:35:31,875"
        },
        {
          "index": 662,
          "text": "inherently needed within social",
          "startTime": "00:35:31,926",
          "endTime": "00:35:35,046"
        },
        {
          "index": 663,
          "text": "resilience. So the example that the book starts out with is, as",
          "startTime": "00:35:35,086",
          "endTime": "00:35:38,726"
        },
        {
          "index": 664,
          "text": "Carolyn would probably know, is when there is",
          "startTime": "00:35:39,206",
          "endTime": "00:35:42,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 665,
          "text": "a community crisis,",
          "startTime": "00:35:43,246",
          "endTime": "00:35:44,266"
        },
        {
          "index": 666,
          "text": "the communities that do the best are when the neighbors go next door and knock on",
          "startTime": "00:35:45,086",
          "endTime": "00:35:49,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 667,
          "text": "it and make sure that that person's okay.",
          "startTime": "00:35:49,026",
          "endTime": "00:35:51,226"
        },
        {
          "index": 668,
          "text": "We need more opportunities for people to interact, to build relationships,",
          "startTime": "00:35:51,866",
          "endTime": "00:35:55,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 669,
          "text": "and that fosters a stronger, more resilient community.",
          "startTime": "00:35:55,706",
          "endTime": "00:35:58,646"
        },
        {
          "index": 670,
          "text": "Playing back to our project, notion of the plaza,",
          "startTime": "00:35:59,546",
          "endTime": "00:36:03,166"
        },
        {
          "index": 671,
          "text": "notion of the public meeting spaces within City Hall, those are",
          "startTime": "00:36:03,366",
          "endTime": "00:36:06,946"
        },
        {
          "index": 672,
          "text": "in direct support of that idea.",
          "startTime": "00:36:07,026",
          "endTime": "00:36:10,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 673,
          "text": "Lastly, sustainability, and it dovetails with the final bullet on the slide,",
          "startTime": "00:36:11,566",
          "endTime": "00:36:15,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 674,
          "text": "is that",
          "startTime": "00:36:16,086",
          "endTime": "00:36:16,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 675,
          "text": "the goal for sustainable development downtown, the city has the",
          "startTime": "00:36:17,526",
          "endTime": "00:36:21,046"
        },
        {
          "index": 676,
          "text": "opportunity to set the standard with what those projects can be,",
          "startTime": "00:36:21,106",
          "endTime": "00:36:24,606"
        },
        {
          "index": 677,
          "text": "both in terms of quality, energy efficiency, opportunities",
          "startTime": "00:36:25,046",
          "endTime": "00:36:28,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 678,
          "text": "for solar panels,",
          "startTime": "00:36:28,946",
          "endTime": "00:36:29,866"
        },
        {
          "index": 679,
          "text": "and",
          "startTime": "00:36:31,846",
          "endTime": "00:36:32,246"
        },
        {
          "index": 680,
          "text": "just reinforcing that message to private development that may happen in",
          "startTime": "00:36:33,126",
          "endTime": "00:36:36,646"
        },
        {
          "index": 681,
          "text": "downtownSo",
          "startTime": "00:36:36,686",
          "endTime": "00:36:43,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 682,
          "text": "if those are common to the end result, these are common to",
          "startTime": "00:36:43,276",
          "endTime": "00:36:47,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 683,
          "text": "what the implementation looks like, and if there",
          "startTime": "00:36:47,276",
          "endTime": "00:36:50,766"
        },
        {
          "index": 684,
          "text": "are delays in time, because that's really what we're",
          "startTime": "00:36:50,856",
          "endTime": "00:36:53,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 685,
          "text": "focusing on. So as I mentioned before, we have construction cost",
          "startTime": "00:36:54,596",
          "endTime": "00:36:58,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 686,
          "text": "escalation calculated at 6% per year or",
          "startTime": "00:36:58,256",
          "endTime": "00:37:01,756"
        },
        {
          "index": 687,
          "text": "0.5 per",
          "startTime": "00:37:01,796",
          "endTime": "00:37:02,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 688,
          "text": "month.",
          "startTime": "00:37:03,676",
          "endTime": "00:37:03,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 689,
          "text": "To get an apples to apples comparisons along these strategies,",
          "startTime": "00:37:05,636",
          "endTime": "00:37:09,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 690,
          "text": "we've used a time scale of eight years between projects if we",
          "startTime": "00:37:09,516",
          "endTime": "00:37:13,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 691,
          "text": "phase.",
          "startTime": "00:37:13,316",
          "endTime": "00:37:13,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 692,
          "text": "And we've done that for a couple of reasons.",
          "startTime": "00:37:14,716",
          "endTime": "00:37:16,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 693,
          "text": "One,",
          "startTime": "00:37:17,116",
          "endTime": "00:37:17,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 694,
          "text": "make sure I get this right.",
          "startTime": "00:37:19,676",
          "endTime": "00:37:20,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 695,
          "text": "You're probably not going to start the second project until",
          "startTime": "00:37:21,756",
          "endTime": "00:37:25,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 696,
          "text": "you've completed the first. So that's at minimum, that's three years there.",
          "startTime": "00:37:25,696",
          "endTime": "00:37:29,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 697,
          "text": "You're likely probably going to have another funding conversation once you've",
          "startTime": "00:37:30,076",
          "endTime": "00:37:33,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 698,
          "text": "done that. And so that's another year or two.",
          "startTime": "00:37:33,896",
          "endTime": "00:37:36,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 699,
          "text": "And so all of a sudden you're five to 10 in your",
          "startTime": "00:37:37,296",
          "endTime": "00:37:41,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 700,
          "text": "potential delay. And",
          "startTime": "00:37:41,216",
          "endTime": "00:37:42,946"
        },
        {
          "index": 701,
          "text": "it's an arbitrary number to a certain degree.",
          "startTime": "00:37:44,296",
          "endTime": "00:37:46,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 702,
          "text": "Council can decide to do whatever they want, but for the purposes of this",
          "startTime": "00:37:46,256",
          "endTime": "00:37:49,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 703,
          "text": "evaluation, that's what we've used across the scale.",
          "startTime": "00:37:49,816",
          "endTime": "00:37:53,096"
        },
        {
          "index": 704,
          "text": "Depending on how long you delay, there are other",
          "startTime": "00:37:55,576",
          "endTime": "00:37:59,086"
        },
        {
          "index": 705,
          "text": "factors that can jeopardize final implementation.",
          "startTime": "00:37:59,096",
          "endTime": "00:38:01,596"
        },
        {
          "index": 706,
          "text": "Long delays can overlap council elections,",
          "startTime": "00:38:03,296",
          "endTime": "00:38:05,546"
        },
        {
          "index": 707,
          "text": "right? You have an opportunity to work together, to get these projects",
          "startTime": "00:38:06,516",
          "endTime": "00:38:10,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 708,
          "text": "done.",
          "startTime": "00:38:10,496",
          "endTime": "00:38:11,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 709,
          "text": "It's not to say that a future council won't have similar objectives,",
          "startTime": "00:38:12,336",
          "endTime": "00:38:15,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 710,
          "text": "but it's a shift, it's a change, and it's ultimately a",
          "startTime": "00:38:16,476",
          "endTime": "00:38:20,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 711,
          "text": "risk to whether something gets fully implemented or not.",
          "startTime": "00:38:20,396",
          "endTime": "00:38:22,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 712,
          "text": "Multiple funding asks can lead to voter fatigue depending on what the",
          "startTime": "00:38:24,796",
          "endTime": "00:38:28,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 713,
          "text": "funding solutions are. The more times that you go",
          "startTime": "00:38:28,376",
          "endTime": "00:38:32,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 714,
          "text": "back, the more difficult the conversation can become.",
          "startTime": "00:38:32,256",
          "endTime": "00:38:35,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 715,
          "text": "And I'll talk a little bit about that to get deeper into it.",
          "startTime": "00:38:36,236",
          "endTime": "00:38:39,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 716,
          "text": "In any of these options, City Hall staff need to relocate",
          "startTime": "00:38:41,776",
          "endTime": "00:38:45,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 717,
          "text": "because fundamentally City Hall is being removed in the",
          "startTime": "00:38:46,356",
          "endTime": "00:38:50,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 718,
          "text": "options, and so City Hall staff has to go someplace while that's",
          "startTime": "00:38:50,136",
          "endTime": "00:38:53,906"
        },
        {
          "index": 719,
          "text": "happening. The cost and",
          "startTime": "00:38:53,996",
          "endTime": "00:38:55,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 720,
          "text": "duration of the relocation is impacted by which option you choose.",
          "startTime": "00:38:57,356",
          "endTime": "00:39:00,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 721,
          "text": "In any option where the police station is delayed,",
          "startTime": "00:39:02,776",
          "endTime": "00:39:05,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 722,
          "text": "resilient temporary facilities need to be created.",
          "startTime": "00:39:05,976",
          "endTime": "00:39:08,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 723,
          "text": "Law enforcement building is in really dire straits, and so",
          "startTime": "00:39:09,376",
          "endTime": "00:39:13,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 724,
          "text": "moving the police to a temporary facility has",
          "startTime": "00:39:13,296",
          "endTime": "00:39:16,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 725,
          "text": "pretty significant cost implications because a",
          "startTime": "00:39:17,336",
          "endTime": "00:39:20,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 726,
          "text": "temporary construction for police requires a lot more",
          "startTime": "00:39:20,536",
          "endTime": "00:39:24,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 727,
          "text": "technical construction. They have things like holding cells and evidence",
          "startTime": "00:39:24,416",
          "endTime": "00:39:28,326"
        },
        {
          "index": 728,
          "text": "management that just is more expensive to build.",
          "startTime": "00:39:28,396",
          "endTime": "00:39:31,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 729,
          "text": "Lastly, over time, building and regulatory code changes",
          "startTime": "00:39:34,016",
          "endTime": "00:39:37,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 730,
          "text": "can occur, which can drive costs that you can't",
          "startTime": "00:39:38,036",
          "endTime": "00:39:40,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 731,
          "text": "anticipate.",
          "startTime": "00:39:40,696",
          "endTime": "00:39:42,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 732,
          "text": "When we were evaluating if both projects are moving",
          "startTime": "00:39:49,456",
          "endTime": "00:39:53,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 733,
          "text": "together or they stagger, we've gone and talked to",
          "startTime": "00:39:53,076",
          "endTime": "00:39:56,596"
        },
        {
          "index": 734,
          "text": "contractors to understand what the impacts and",
          "startTime": "00:39:56,816",
          "endTime": "00:40:00,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 735,
          "text": "efficiencies might be for the benefits going",
          "startTime": "00:40:00,196",
          "endTime": "00:40:03,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 736,
          "text": "together or independently.",
          "startTime": "00:40:03,916",
          "endTime": "00:40:05,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 737,
          "text": "So if projects move together, a single project has less startup",
          "startTime": "00:40:07,516",
          "endTime": "00:40:11,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 738,
          "text": "mobilization and shutdown costs.",
          "startTime": "00:40:11,416",
          "endTime": "00:40:13,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 739,
          "text": "What that means is every time a project starts up, they need to bring in the job",
          "startTime": "00:40:13,276",
          "endTime": "00:40:16,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 740,
          "text": "trailer, they need to get crews on board.",
          "startTime": "00:40:16,396",
          "endTime": "00:40:18,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 741,
          "text": "There are costs inherent to that. And they're",
          "startTime": "00:40:19,116",
          "endTime": "00:40:22,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 742,
          "text": "not insignificant, but they're worth sort of mentioning.",
          "startTime": "00:40:22,906",
          "endTime": "00:40:26,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 743,
          "text": "Larger projects have a greater economy of scale.",
          "startTime": "00:40:28,196",
          "endTime": "00:40:30,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 744,
          "text": "You get greater efficiencies over a larger project than if you have smaller",
          "startTime": "00:40:30,936",
          "endTime": "00:40:34,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 745,
          "text": "or two smaller.",
          "startTime": "00:40:34,796",
          "endTime": "00:40:35,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 746,
          "text": "The process of procuring, managing",
          "startTime": "00:40:37,736",
          "endTime": "00:40:41,096"
        },
        {
          "index": 747,
          "text": "subcontractors on a job, if you only have to do it once, it's easier.",
          "startTime": "00:40:41,396",
          "endTime": "00:40:45,266"
        },
        {
          "index": 748,
          "text": "If you have a bigger project, you can move and stagger workflows around.",
          "startTime": "00:40:45,316",
          "endTime": "00:40:49,096"
        },
        {
          "index": 749,
          "text": "A single project has greater efficiency, general contractor supervision,",
          "startTime": "00:40:50,556",
          "endTime": "00:40:54,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 750,
          "text": "temporary safety and security.",
          "startTime": "00:40:54,416",
          "endTime": "00:40:55,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 751,
          "text": "These are the day-to-day management of",
          "startTime": "00:40:56,896",
          "endTime": "00:40:59,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 752,
          "text": "relative to security, onsite management,",
          "startTime": "00:40:59,736",
          "endTime": "00:41:03,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 753,
          "text": "I should say, because they're ability to share equipment, material staging.",
          "startTime": "00:41:04,335",
          "endTime": "00:41:08,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 754,
          "text": "Material staging particular is one on an urban site we have to be pretty",
          "startTime": "00:41:08,776",
          "endTime": "00:41:12,486"
        },
        {
          "index": 755,
          "text": "thoughtful about.",
          "startTime": "00:41:12,536",
          "endTime": "00:41:13,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 756,
          "text": "Avoid duplicate costs for tapping utilities and doing street right of way work.",
          "startTime": "00:41:15,476",
          "endTime": "00:41:18,906"
        },
        {
          "index": 757,
          "text": "If you've completed one project and you've connected to the water main, and all of",
          "startTime": "00:41:19,316",
          "endTime": "00:41:23,026"
        },
        {
          "index": 758,
          "text": "a sudden you start the next one, you've got to go dig up the sidewalk and do it",
          "startTime": "00:41:23,056",
          "endTime": "00:41:25,746"
        },
        {
          "index": 759,
          "text": "again.",
          "startTime": "00:41:25,776",
          "endTime": "00:41:26,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 760,
          "text": "And then lastly, there's only one disruption to the downtown",
          "startTime": "00:41:27,676",
          "endTime": "00:41:31,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 761,
          "text": "neighborhood. Projects of these scales are going to impact traffic in",
          "startTime": "00:41:31,556",
          "endTime": "00:41:35,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 762,
          "text": "the area,",
          "startTime": "00:41:35,476",
          "endTime": "00:41:36,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 763,
          "text": "and contractors are really great about managing noise, but there is",
          "startTime": "00:41:37,436",
          "endTime": "00:41:41,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 764,
          "text": "disruption overall.",
          "startTime": "00:41:41,176",
          "endTime": "00:41:42,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 765,
          "text": "Okay, so we have four implementation strategies, and I'm going to",
          "startTime": "00:41:46,236",
          "endTime": "00:41:50,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 766,
          "text": "walk through the pros and cons of each.",
          "startTime": "00:41:50,056",
          "endTime": "00:41:52,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 767,
          "text": "And then at the bottom is",
          "startTime": "00:41:53,276",
          "endTime": "00:41:54,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 768,
          "text": "total cost.",
          "startTime": "00:41:56,176",
          "endTime": "00:41:57,295"
        },
        {
          "index": 769,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "00:41:58,976",
          "endTime": "00:41:59,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 770,
          "text": "in the case where we move both projects together,",
          "startTime": "00:42:00,116",
          "endTime": "00:42:02,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 771,
          "text": "Civic Campus staff return after a short-term lease.",
          "startTime": "00:42:04,276",
          "endTime": "00:42:07,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 772,
          "text": "They're out of downtown for the least amount of time.",
          "startTime": "00:42:08,256",
          "endTime": "00:42:10,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 773,
          "text": "Police are able to remain in the law enforcement building while construction is",
          "startTime": "00:42:11,096",
          "endTime": "00:42:14,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 774,
          "text": "completed.",
          "startTime": "00:42:14,596",
          "endTime": "00:42:15,256"
        },
        {
          "index": 775,
          "text": "You address the two aging facilities simultaneously, reducing the",
          "startTime": "00:42:17,076",
          "endTime": "00:42:21,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 776,
          "text": "long-term facility risk of various issues.",
          "startTime": "00:42:21,096",
          "endTime": "00:42:24,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 777,
          "text": "Allows shared infrastructure site development efficiencies, as we were just talking",
          "startTime": "00:42:25,356",
          "endTime": "00:42:28,846"
        },
        {
          "index": 778,
          "text": "about, between the two projects.",
          "startTime": "00:42:28,916",
          "endTime": "00:42:30,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 779,
          "text": "Immediately implements downtown vitality task force goals.",
          "startTime": "00:42:31,956",
          "endTime": "00:42:35,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 780,
          "text": "The things that have been just brought to you can come to fruition much",
          "startTime": "00:42:35,896",
          "endTime": "00:42:39,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 781,
          "text": "quicker and support downtown faster.",
          "startTime": "00:42:39,576",
          "endTime": "00:42:41,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 782,
          "text": "Avoids future construction escalation, which is the topic we were just",
          "startTime": "00:42:43,536",
          "endTime": "00:42:47,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 783,
          "text": "talking about.",
          "startTime": "00:42:47,336",
          "endTime": "00:42:47,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 784,
          "text": "Allows for a new approach to underground parking garage.",
          "startTime": "00:42:49,836",
          "endTime": "00:42:52,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 785,
          "text": "I'll get to that in a second.",
          "startTime": "00:42:52,296",
          "endTime": "00:42:53,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 786,
          "text": "And then this is the least total cost to implement.",
          "startTime": "00:42:54,956",
          "endTime": "00:42:57,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 787,
          "text": "If you look at the full picture of council vision, this is",
          "startTime": "00:42:58,076",
          "endTime": "00:43:01,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 788,
          "text": "the most cost-effective way to get it done.",
          "startTime": "00:43:01,996",
          "endTime": "00:43:04,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 789,
          "text": "The con here is that it is the highest initial",
          "startTime": "00:43:06,076",
          "endTime": "00:43:09,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 790,
          "text": "capital cost.",
          "startTime": "00:43:09,756",
          "endTime": "00:43:10,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 791,
          "text": "So parking. I mentioned here,",
          "startTime": "00:43:15,156",
          "endTime": "00:43:17,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 792,
          "text": "allows for new",
          "startTime": "00:43:17,456",
          "endTime": "00:43:21,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 793,
          "text": "approach to underground parking.",
          "startTime": "00:43:21,296",
          "endTime": "00:43:22,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 794,
          "text": "So initially, when we brought this vision to",
          "startTime": "00:43:23,596",
          "endTime": "00:43:26,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 795,
          "text": "council,",
          "startTime": "00:43:27,356",
          "endTime": "00:43:27,756"
        },
        {
          "index": 796,
          "text": "because we were designing a public safety building, the biggest challenge to public",
          "startTime": "00:43:28,576",
          "endTime": "00:43:31,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 797,
          "text": "safety is they have a lot of vehicles, and they have to find a place to put them.",
          "startTime": "00:43:31,956",
          "endTime": "00:43:35,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 798,
          "text": "It can take significant amount of acreage, as John and I both know from working on",
          "startTime": "00:43:37,136",
          "endTime": "00:43:41,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 799,
          "text": "lots of public safety buildings, to accommodate their fleets.",
          "startTime": "00:43:41,076",
          "endTime": "00:43:44,556"
        },
        {
          "index": 800,
          "text": "And so when we designed the public safety building, initially, we ended up going",
          "startTime": "00:43:45,096",
          "endTime": "00:43:48,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 801,
          "text": "two and a half to three floors below grade",
          "startTime": "00:43:49,036",
          "endTime": "00:43:52,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 802,
          "text": "to create below grade parkings.",
          "startTime": "00:43:53,076",
          "endTime": "00:43:54,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 803,
          "text": "That's not the most expensive effort",
          "startTime": "00:43:56,116",
          "endTime": "00:43:59,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 804,
          "text": "overall, and given how tight these sites are,",
          "startTime": "00:44:00,316",
          "endTime": "00:44:03,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 805,
          "text": "it's pretty inefficient.",
          "startTime": "00:44:04,236",
          "endTime": "00:44:05,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 806,
          "text": "Once you start to ramp down and try to get multiple ramps going down, you eat up a",
          "startTime": "00:44:06,176",
          "endTime": "00:44:09,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 807,
          "text": "lot of that square footage. When we realized that we",
          "startTime": "00:44:09,896",
          "endTime": "00:44:13,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 808,
          "text": "could potentially have both projects moving in at once, the opportunity is to",
          "startTime": "00:44:14,016",
          "endTime": "00:44:17,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 809,
          "text": "do a larger,",
          "startTime": "00:44:17,916",
          "endTime": "00:44:19,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 810,
          "text": "shallower parking structure that goes all the way underneath Madison",
          "startTime": "00:44:20,236",
          "endTime": "00:44:23,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 811,
          "text": "Avenue and ties Civic Campus together.",
          "startTime": "00:44:23,656",
          "endTime": "00:44:25,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 812,
          "text": "You wouldn't do this type of approach piece.",
          "startTime": "00:44:27,696",
          "endTime": "00:44:29,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 813,
          "text": "It would cause a level of complexity that would just drive costs up.",
          "startTime": "00:44:30,516",
          "endTime": "00:44:33,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 814,
          "text": "And so the benefit here is that you likely have enough",
          "startTime": "00:44:34,456",
          "endTime": "00:44:38,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 815,
          "text": "space for the secure parking needs of public safety",
          "startTime": "00:44:38,116",
          "endTime": "00:44:41,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 816,
          "text": "folks.",
          "startTime": "00:44:42,116",
          "endTime": "00:44:42,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 817,
          "text": "We also have the potential for additional parking that is outside of that secure",
          "startTime": "00:44:43,276",
          "endTime": "00:44:47,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 818,
          "text": "zone that could be separate. Whether that's for staff, for the public,",
          "startTime": "00:44:47,336",
          "endTime": "00:44:50,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 819,
          "text": "that's all for",
          "startTime": "00:44:51,296",
          "endTime": "00:44:51,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 820,
          "text": "you to determine.",
          "startTime": "00:44:53,376",
          "endTime": "00:44:54,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 821,
          "text": "But of this implementation option one,",
          "startTime": "00:44:55,656",
          "endTime": "00:44:58,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 822,
          "text": "we can sort of potentially pull off this scenario.",
          "startTime": "00:44:59,336",
          "endTime": "00:45:01,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 823,
          "text": "And so, this is",
          "startTime": "00:45:05,976",
          "endTime": "00:45:07,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 824,
          "text": "basically what that looks like",
          "startTime": "00:45:08,816",
          "endTime": "00:45:10,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 825,
          "text": "after everything's done at once, and this is what you get.",
          "startTime": "00:45:11,196",
          "endTime": "00:45:14,826"
        },
        {
          "index": 826,
          "text": "Now, a couple of caveats here.",
          "startTime": "00:45:15,536",
          "endTime": "00:45:16,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 827,
          "text": "This is not what the buildings will look like.",
          "startTime": "00:45:18,756",
          "endTime": "00:45:20,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 828,
          "text": "We haven't designed them yet. Any",
          "startTime": "00:45:21,176",
          "endTime": "00:45:23,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 829,
          "text": "design of a public building, once the project moves forward, we work really",
          "startTime": "00:45:25,696",
          "endTime": "00:45:29,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 830,
          "text": "hard to do community engagement, to engage the community in how these buildings",
          "startTime": "00:45:29,716",
          "endTime": "00:45:33,165"
        },
        {
          "index": 831,
          "text": "should look and feel.",
          "startTime": "00:45:33,216",
          "endTime": "00:45:34,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 832,
          "text": "So we needed to provide an idea or a vision to council and",
          "startTime": "00:45:35,556",
          "endTime": "00:45:39,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 833,
          "text": "the public just to get a sense of something.",
          "startTime": "00:45:39,556",
          "endTime": "00:45:41,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 834,
          "text": "So if you don't like the window pattern, it's okay.",
          "startTime": "00:45:41,996",
          "endTime": "00:45:45,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 835,
          "text": "It's not going to be this at the end of the day.",
          "startTime": "00:45:45,556",
          "endTime": "00:45:47,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 836,
          "text": "But what you do see here is that potential for these",
          "startTime": "00:45:48,736",
          "endTime": "00:45:52,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 837,
          "text": "two projects working together with the plaza space in between",
          "startTime": "00:45:52,716",
          "endTime": "00:45:56,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 838,
          "text": "and that further connection on Madison.",
          "startTime": "00:45:56,976",
          "endTime": "00:45:59,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 839,
          "text": "This is looking down towards the river and the OB development that's",
          "startTime": "00:45:59,756",
          "endTime": "00:46:03,566"
        },
        {
          "index": 840,
          "text": "underway right now.",
          "startTime": "00:46:03,616",
          "endTime": "00:46:04,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 841,
          "text": "So implementation strategy number two",
          "startTime": "00:46:10,336",
          "endTime": "00:46:12,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 842,
          "text": "says if you build the public station first, and you delay the Civic",
          "startTime": "00:46:13,276",
          "endTime": "00:46:17,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 843,
          "text": "Campus. And again, we're talking of a delay just for the point of numbers of",
          "startTime": "00:46:17,136",
          "endTime": "00:46:21,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 844,
          "text": "eight.",
          "startTime": "00:46:21,156",
          "endTime": "00:46:21,626"
        },
        {
          "index": 845,
          "text": "Whatever council decides at that point is up to you, but eight",
          "startTime": "00:46:22,656",
          "endTime": "00:46:26,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 846,
          "text": "years is the benchmark that we're doing this.",
          "startTime": "00:46:26,496",
          "endTime": "00:46:28,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 847,
          "text": "That's it.",
          "startTime": "00:46:28,776",
          "endTime": "00:46:29,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 848,
          "text": "So the benefits here is that you've dealt with the public safety building first,",
          "startTime": "00:46:29,376",
          "endTime": "00:46:33,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 849,
          "text": "which is pretty critical relative to operational",
          "startTime": "00:46:33,256",
          "endTime": "00:46:36,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 850,
          "text": "effectiveness for them and resilience for police services.",
          "startTime": "00:46:36,436",
          "endTime": "00:46:40,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 851,
          "text": "You have a lower initial capital investment because you're only building one of the",
          "startTime": "00:46:41,516",
          "endTime": "00:46:44,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 852,
          "text": "buildings.",
          "startTime": "00:46:44,876",
          "endTime": "00:46:45,306"
        },
        {
          "index": 853,
          "text": "You maintain at least one civic anchor while you're",
          "startTime": "00:46:47,076",
          "endTime": "00:46:49,506"
        },
        {
          "index": 854,
          "text": "getting these facility needs solved.",
          "startTime": "00:46:50,456",
          "endTime": "00:46:52,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 855,
          "text": "It allows the city to phase the major capital investments over time",
          "startTime": "00:46:54,116",
          "endTime": "00:46:57,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 856,
          "text": "and improves emergency resilience through getting the 911 facility",
          "startTime": "00:46:57,936",
          "endTime": "00:47:01,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 857,
          "text": "into a new building sooner.",
          "startTime": "00:47:01,896",
          "endTime": "00:47:04,256"
        },
        {
          "index": 858,
          "text": "The cons are is that your civic vision is only half",
          "startTime": "00:47:06,456",
          "endTime": "00:47:10,195"
        },
        {
          "index": 859,
          "text": "realized.",
          "startTime": "00:47:10,236",
          "endTime": "00:47:10,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 860,
          "text": "City administration moves out of downtown for an",
          "startTime": "00:47:12,996",
          "endTime": "00:47:16,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 861,
          "text": "undetermined amount of time, whether it's eight years or whatever the length of",
          "startTime": "00:47:16,696",
          "endTime": "00:47:20,546"
        },
        {
          "index": 862,
          "text": "time this ends up being. They're someplace else,",
          "startTime": "00:47:20,546",
          "endTime": "00:47:24,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 863,
          "text": "and the community is going someplace else besides downtown during",
          "startTime": "00:47:24,676",
          "endTime": "00:47:27,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 864,
          "text": "that time period.",
          "startTime": "00:47:27,976",
          "endTime": "00:47:30,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 865,
          "text": "There's a risk that the full Civic Hub",
          "startTime": "00:47:31,536",
          "endTime": "00:47:33,386"
        },
        {
          "index": 866,
          "text": "vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of the delay risks that we",
          "startTime": "00:47:34,316",
          "endTime": "00:47:38,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 867,
          "text": "talked about earlier. There's a missed opportunity for",
          "startTime": "00:47:38,256",
          "endTime": "00:47:42,206"
        },
        {
          "index": 868,
          "text": "the shared site efficiencies, construction efficiencies that we talked about.",
          "startTime": "00:47:42,256",
          "endTime": "00:47:45,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 869,
          "text": "We're now",
          "startTime": "00:47:46,796",
          "endTime": "00:47:47,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 870,
          "text": "delaying parts of the Downtown Vitality Task Force goals",
          "startTime": "00:47:48,916",
          "endTime": "00:47:52,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 871,
          "text": "because we don't have that civic space that's going to",
          "startTime": "00:47:53,036",
          "endTime": "00:47:56,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 872,
          "text": "encourage people to come in.",
          "startTime": "00:47:56,796",
          "endTime": "00:47:59,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 873,
          "text": "And lastly,",
          "startTime": "00:48:01,276",
          "endTime": "00:48:01,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 874,
          "text": "because city hall staff are",
          "startTime": "00:48:03,036",
          "endTime": "00:48:05,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 875,
          "text": "in a lease condition",
          "startTime": "00:48:05,516",
          "endTime": "00:48:09,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 876,
          "text": "someplace else, you have higher lease costs.",
          "startTime": "00:48:09,176",
          "endTime": "00:48:11,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 877,
          "text": "So the overall cost to implement this one total is",
          "startTime": "00:48:12,916",
          "endTime": "00:48:16,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 878,
          "text": "$267 million. It's $116.6",
          "startTime": "00:48:16,906",
          "endTime": "00:48:20,866"
        },
        {
          "index": 879,
          "text": "million for the police station when you first build it,",
          "startTime": "00:48:20,896",
          "endTime": "00:48:24,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 880,
          "text": "but then because of that escalation, Civic Campus now costs",
          "startTime": "00:48:24,856",
          "endTime": "00:48:28,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 881,
          "text": "$151 million to build.",
          "startTime": "00:48:28,366",
          "endTime": "00:48:29,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 882,
          "text": "Can I ask a detail question?",
          "startTime": "00:48:31,596",
          "endTime": "00:48:34,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 883,
          "text": "Yes, please.",
          "startTime": "00:48:34,146",
          "endTime": "00:48:34,146"
        },
        {
          "index": 884,
          "text": "Just because I'm super curious.",
          "startTime": "00:48:34,156",
          "endTime": "00:48:35,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 885,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:48:35,976",
          "endTime": "00:48:36,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 886,
          "text": "You talk about this brilliant idea of having the garage go all the way across.",
          "startTime": "00:48:36,416",
          "endTime": "00:48:40,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 887,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "00:48:40,096",
          "endTime": "00:48:40,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 888,
          "text": "How does building them one at a time affect that?",
          "startTime": "00:48:40,816",
          "endTime": "00:48:43,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 889,
          "text": "Because you can",
          "startTime": "00:48:43,336",
          "endTime": "00:48:47,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 890,
          "text": "only build half, right?",
          "startTime": "00:48:47,316",
          "endTime": "00:48:48,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 891,
          "text": "You don't really have that option anymore.",
          "startTime": "00:48:48,996",
          "endTime": "00:48:50,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 892,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:48:50,956",
          "endTime": "00:48:51,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 893,
          "text": "Yeah.I guess the add-on to that is the",
          "startTime": "00:48:51,656",
          "endTime": "00:48:55,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 894,
          "text": "secure parking need for the police wouldn't fit in a",
          "startTime": "00:48:55,728",
          "endTime": "00:48:59,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 895,
          "text": "one-story parking garage-",
          "startTime": "00:48:59,748",
          "endTime": "00:49:01,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 896,
          "text": "... under the PD.",
          "startTime": "00:49:01,258",
          "endTime": "00:49:02,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 897,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:49:02,408",
          "endTime": "00:49:02,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 898,
          "text": "So they wouldn't have their fleet needs meet K1.",
          "startTime": "00:49:02,788",
          "endTime": "00:49:05,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 899,
          "text": "But would it fit under the police and the plaza?",
          "startTime": "00:49:05,648",
          "endTime": "00:49:08,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 900,
          "text": "It could potentially.",
          "startTime": "00:49:09,188",
          "endTime": "00:49:10,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 901,
          "text": "That's something that would need to be studied.",
          "startTime": "00:49:11,168",
          "endTime": "00:49:12,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 902,
          "text": "Mm.",
          "startTime": "00:49:13,138",
          "endTime": "00:49:13,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 903,
          "text": "I think the reality of",
          "startTime": "00:49:13,588",
          "endTime": "00:49:15,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 904,
          "text": "the plaza's function goes best with the Civic Campus.",
          "startTime": "00:49:16,768",
          "endTime": "00:49:20,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 905,
          "text": "And so",
          "startTime": "00:49:20,588",
          "endTime": "00:49:21,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 906,
          "text": "even if you, to your point, Council Elmes, if you built",
          "startTime": "00:49:21,908",
          "endTime": "00:49:24,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 907,
          "text": "two-thirds of that parking, building that last third gets really challenging",
          "startTime": "00:49:26,328",
          "endTime": "00:49:30,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 908,
          "text": "in sort of making those connections to it.",
          "startTime": "00:49:31,288",
          "endTime": "00:49:33,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 909,
          "text": "But you believe you would meet the parking",
          "startTime": "00:49:37,468",
          "endTime": "00:49:41,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 910,
          "text": "requirements for the police station?",
          "startTime": "00:49:41,228",
          "endTime": "00:49:43,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 911,
          "text": "We don't even see. We have to verify that.",
          "startTime": "00:49:43,468",
          "endTime": "00:49:45,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 912,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:49:49,268",
          "endTime": "00:49:49,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 913,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "00:49:50,468",
          "endTime": "00:49:50,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 914,
          "text": "the new public safety building is built, the street remains the",
          "startTime": "00:49:52,208",
          "endTime": "00:49:56,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 915,
          "text": "same.",
          "startTime": "00:49:56,108",
          "endTime": "00:49:56,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 916,
          "text": "The idea being that the remaining facilities, the buildings",
          "startTime": "00:49:57,808",
          "endTime": "00:50:01,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 917,
          "text": "that we're in, is no longer occupied by city staff.",
          "startTime": "00:50:01,728",
          "endTime": "00:50:04,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 918,
          "text": "They've now moved to another location.",
          "startTime": "00:50:04,858",
          "endTime": "00:50:06,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 919,
          "text": "You",
          "startTime": "00:50:07,668",
          "endTime": "00:50:07,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 920,
          "text": "really don't need these facilities anymore from a city",
          "startTime": "00:50:09,128",
          "endTime": "00:50:12,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 921,
          "text": "standpoint.",
          "startTime": "00:50:13,008",
          "endTime": "00:50:13,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 922,
          "text": "Whether you decide to try and lease them or something, that's on you.",
          "startTime": "00:50:14,688",
          "endTime": "00:50:18,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 923,
          "text": "But having that capability to use that site as staging",
          "startTime": "00:50:18,268",
          "endTime": "00:50:21,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 924,
          "text": "and not have to maintain these buildings anymore suggests that you might just",
          "startTime": "00:50:22,168",
          "endTime": "00:50:26,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 925,
          "text": "take them down. And so you have a",
          "startTime": "00:50:26,108",
          "endTime": "00:50:28,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 926,
          "text": "partially realized vision.",
          "startTime": "00:50:29,768",
          "endTime": "00:50:30,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 927,
          "text": "Well, and also just to add to that,",
          "startTime": "00:50:31,968",
          "endTime": "00:50:34,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 928,
          "text": "our direction as staff is to construct",
          "startTime": "00:50:36,888",
          "endTime": "00:50:40,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 929,
          "text": "the council's direction, which is two buildings at some point in time.",
          "startTime": "00:50:40,948",
          "endTime": "00:50:43,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 930,
          "text": "And so by taking the buildings down, you're setting the stage for that to be able",
          "startTime": "00:50:44,208",
          "endTime": "00:50:48,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 931,
          "text": "to happen",
          "startTime": "00:50:48,108",
          "endTime": "00:50:48,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 932,
          "text": "more efficiently when the time comes for the second building to happen.",
          "startTime": "00:50:49,908",
          "endTime": "00:50:52,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 933,
          "text": "Absolutely.",
          "startTime": "00:50:52,838",
          "endTime": "00:50:53,218"
        },
        {
          "index": 934,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:50:53,368",
          "endTime": "00:50:53,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 935,
          "text": "Question. Where does the staging occur in just building the police",
          "startTime": "00:50:56,908",
          "endTime": "00:51:00,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 936,
          "text": "building?",
          "startTime": "00:51:00,748",
          "endTime": "00:51:01,187"
        },
        {
          "index": 937,
          "text": "We could have it on the back, some on the backside of the law",
          "startTime": "00:51:02,728",
          "endTime": "00:51:06,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 938,
          "text": "enforcement building or the police station building, but you've got your",
          "startTime": "00:51:06,548",
          "endTime": "00:51:09,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 939,
          "text": "transportation hub is there.",
          "startTime": "00:51:09,588",
          "endTime": "00:51:10,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 940,
          "text": "It can happen in the plaza, but you're going to be working on",
          "startTime": "00:51:11,928",
          "endTime": "00:51:15,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 941,
          "text": "both buildings and then do the plaza last.",
          "startTime": "00:51:15,928",
          "endTime": "00:51:17,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 942,
          "text": "It's a question for the contractor overall.",
          "startTime": "00:51:18,128",
          "endTime": "00:51:20,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 943,
          "text": "You're not going to obviously impact",
          "startTime": "00:51:20,528",
          "endTime": "00:51:22,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 944,
          "text": "6th because of the train going by. You don't want to impact 5th because",
          "startTime": "00:51:23,648",
          "endTime": "00:51:27,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 945,
          "text": "it's kind of a major through repair.",
          "startTime": "00:51:27,628",
          "endTime": "00:51:29,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 946,
          "text": "It's going to be a difficult site regardless in either option.",
          "startTime": "00:51:29,828",
          "endTime": "00:51:33,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 947,
          "text": "I think there is advantage to stage-",
          "startTime": "00:51:33,548",
          "endTime": "00:51:35,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 948,
          "text": "Yes",
          "startTime": "00:51:35,808",
          "endTime": "00:51:35,817"
        },
        {
          "index": 949,
          "text": "... on the right-hand side there.",
          "startTime": "00:51:35,817",
          "endTime": "00:51:37,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 950,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:51:37,388",
          "endTime": "00:51:37,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 951,
          "text": "Right where we're sitting here.",
          "startTime": "00:51:37,748",
          "endTime": "00:51:38,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 952,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:51:39,888",
          "endTime": "00:51:40,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 953,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:51:40,317",
          "endTime": "00:51:40,317"
        },
        {
          "index": 954,
          "text": "Good point.",
          "startTime": "00:51:40,388",
          "endTime": "00:51:40,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 955,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:51:41,468",
          "endTime": "00:51:41,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 956,
          "text": "But then the question arises, if you phase it, where do",
          "startTime": "00:51:43,448",
          "endTime": "00:51:47,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 957,
          "text": "you stage for building the second half?",
          "startTime": "00:51:47,448",
          "endTime": "00:51:49,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 958,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:51:49,648",
          "endTime": "00:51:49,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 959,
          "text": "Whichever building it is that comes first.",
          "startTime": "00:51:49,928",
          "endTime": "00:51:51,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 960,
          "text": "Exactly. Now you have a problem.",
          "startTime": "00:51:52,528",
          "endTime": "00:51:53,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 961,
          "text": "Yeah. Basically, staging is going to be a problem whatever you do.",
          "startTime": "00:51:54,008",
          "endTime": "00:51:56,858"
        },
        {
          "index": 962,
          "text": "Whichever .",
          "startTime": "00:51:56,858",
          "endTime": "00:51:57,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 963,
          "text": "So, implementation strategy three is you reverse",
          "startTime": "00:52:02,648",
          "endTime": "00:52:06,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 964,
          "text": "that. You do the Civic Campus first, and you",
          "startTime": "00:52:06,198",
          "endTime": "00:52:10,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 965,
          "text": "phase the police station.",
          "startTime": "00:52:11,008",
          "endTime": "00:52:12,078"
        },
        {
          "index": 966,
          "text": "In this case,",
          "startTime": "00:52:13,188",
          "endTime": "00:52:13,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 967,
          "text": "you're reinforcing the civic presence and identity downtown.",
          "startTime": "00:52:14,688",
          "endTime": "00:52:17,537"
        },
        {
          "index": 968,
          "text": "Civic staff return to downtown sooner.",
          "startTime": "00:52:18,808",
          "endTime": "00:52:20,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 969,
          "text": "It improves administration efficiency and service delivery for the city operations",
          "startTime": "00:52:22,408",
          "endTime": "00:52:25,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 970,
          "text": "when they're downtown, closer to where people are.",
          "startTime": "00:52:25,968",
          "endTime": "00:52:28,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 971,
          "text": "Supports downtown vitality through daily staff and visitor",
          "startTime": "00:52:29,868",
          "endTime": "00:52:33,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 972,
          "text": "activity. Again, more people coming to the building.",
          "startTime": "00:52:33,428",
          "endTime": "00:52:36,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 973,
          "text": "Establish as part of the Civic Campus framework,",
          "startTime": "00:52:37,088",
          "endTime": "00:52:40,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 974,
          "text": "all of it, and then lower initial capital costs similar",
          "startTime": "00:52:41,168",
          "endTime": "00:52:44,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 975,
          "text": "to phasing the police station.",
          "startTime": "00:52:44,948",
          "endTime": "00:52:46,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 976,
          "text": "Initial",
          "startTime": "00:52:48,068",
          "endTime": "00:52:48,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 977,
          "text": "capital costs.",
          "startTime": "00:52:49,468",
          "endTime": "00:52:49,537"
        },
        {
          "index": 978,
          "text": "Initial capital costs. Appreciate that.",
          "startTime": "00:52:49,808",
          "endTime": "00:52:51,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 979,
          "text": "The cons here is the police department relocates for an undetermined amount of",
          "startTime": "00:52:53,728",
          "endTime": "00:52:57,138"
        },
        {
          "index": 980,
          "text": "time. As we talked about, the longer portion of the building is very",
          "startTime": "00:52:57,168",
          "endTime": "00:53:00,728"
        },
        {
          "index": 981,
          "text": "challenging from a resilient standpoint.",
          "startTime": "00:53:00,768",
          "endTime": "00:53:02,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 982,
          "text": "The renovation of temporary public safety facility is expensive, as we mentioned.",
          "startTime": "00:53:04,008",
          "endTime": "00:53:07,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 983,
          "text": "If you try to move the police someplace temporarily, you're building a lot more",
          "startTime": "00:53:08,028",
          "endTime": "00:53:11,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 984,
          "text": "expensive construction to house them in that location.",
          "startTime": "00:53:11,808",
          "endTime": "00:53:14,567"
        },
        {
          "index": 985,
          "text": "The full civic hub vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of",
          "startTime": "00:53:15,488",
          "endTime": "00:53:19,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 986,
          "text": "the delay",
          "startTime": "00:53:19,508",
          "endTime": "00:53:20,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 987,
          "text": "risks that we talked about.",
          "startTime": "00:53:21,208",
          "endTime": "00:53:22,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 988,
          "text": "And the civic vision remains incomplete for an extended period",
          "startTime": "00:53:23,128",
          "endTime": "00:53:26,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 989,
          "text": "of time. Missed opportunity to strengthen community interaction with public",
          "startTime": "00:53:27,048",
          "endTime": "00:53:30,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 990,
          "text": "safety. So as architects who design public",
          "startTime": "00:53:31,028",
          "endTime": "00:53:34,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 991,
          "text": "safety facilities,",
          "startTime": "00:53:34,748",
          "endTime": "00:53:35,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 992,
          "text": "one of the things that we are often trying to do within municipal police",
          "startTime": "00:53:36,768",
          "endTime": "00:53:40,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 993,
          "text": "stations is create opportunities for police to",
          "startTime": "00:53:40,388",
          "endTime": "00:53:44,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 994,
          "text": "interact with the public outside of a 911 call.",
          "startTime": "00:53:44,248",
          "endTime": "00:53:47,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 995,
          "text": "That is a huge part of relations between residents",
          "startTime": "00:53:47,948",
          "endTime": "00:53:51,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 996,
          "text": "and public safety staff.",
          "startTime": "00:53:51,888",
          "endTime": "00:53:54,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 997,
          "text": "And anything that we can do that encourages the",
          "startTime": "00:53:54,928",
          "endTime": "00:53:58,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 998,
          "text": "police to be walking to shops downtown to grab lunch-",
          "startTime": "00:53:58,808",
          "endTime": "00:54:02,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 999,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "00:54:02,848",
          "endTime": "00:54:03,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1000,
          "text": "... in between shifts, whatever it is that we can do to",
          "startTime": "00:54:03,518",
          "endTime": "00:54:06,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1001,
          "text": "normalize interactions there, we look for that opportunity wherever we",
          "startTime": "00:54:07,648",
          "endTime": "00:54:11,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 1002,
          "text": "can. Because we've paired these two projects together, however they're",
          "startTime": "00:54:11,728",
          "endTime": "00:54:15,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1003,
          "text": "implemented, there's a lot of potential for that to happen here.",
          "startTime": "00:54:15,708",
          "endTime": "00:54:18,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1004,
          "text": "Question. So this, the cost does include the renovation of the",
          "startTime": "00:54:20,848",
          "endTime": "00:54:24,758"
        },
        {
          "index": 1005,
          "text": "temporary public-",
          "startTime": "00:54:24,828",
          "endTime": "00:54:26,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1006,
          "text": "This does not.",
          "startTime": "00:54:26,268",
          "endTime": "00:54:26,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1007,
          "text": "Does not.",
          "startTime": "00:54:26,968",
          "endTime": "00:54:27,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1008,
          "text": "Does not. This is just the cost to implement this vision.",
          "startTime": "00:54:27,618",
          "endTime": "00:54:30,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1009,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:54:31,868",
          "endTime": "00:54:31,957"
        },
        {
          "index": 1010,
          "text": "None of these include any sort of lease, long-term or short-term.",
          "startTime": "00:54:32,008",
          "endTime": "00:54:35,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1011,
          "text": "Okay. So I think it's an important point to",
          "startTime": "00:54:35,808",
          "endTime": "00:54:38,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1012,
          "text": "relocating",
          "startTime": "00:54:39,208",
          "endTime": "00:54:39,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1013,
          "text": "administrative staff temporarily is one cost X, yet",
          "startTime": "00:54:40,848",
          "endTime": "00:54:44,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1014,
          "text": "relocating police and building the supporting structure for that",
          "startTime": "00:54:44,488",
          "endTime": "00:54:48,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1015,
          "text": "is multiple X.",
          "startTime": "00:54:48,408",
          "endTime": "00:54:50,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 1016,
          "text": "Yes.",
          "startTime": "00:54:50,228",
          "endTime": "00:54:50,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1017,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:54:50,808",
          "endTime": "00:54:51,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1018,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "00:54:52,408",
          "endTime": "00:54:52,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1019,
          "text": "Are these numbers in",
          "startTime": "00:54:52,988",
          "endTime": "00:54:54,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1020,
          "text": "the second number on that, is there anyAttempt to",
          "startTime": "00:54:56,108",
          "endTime": "00:54:59,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1021,
          "text": "adjust for inflation. If you assume, obviously money is",
          "startTime": "00:54:59,908",
          "endTime": "00:55:03,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1022,
          "text": "not going to be...",
          "startTime": "00:55:03,748",
          "endTime": "00:55:04,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 1023,
          "text": "Inflation's going to happen.",
          "startTime": "00:55:05,668",
          "endTime": "00:55:06,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1024,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:55:07,048",
          "endTime": "00:55:07,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 1025,
          "text": "So in real dollar terms, when you build the second one,",
          "startTime": "00:55:07,548",
          "endTime": "00:55:11,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1026,
          "text": "185 is-",
          "startTime": "00:55:12,148",
          "endTime": "00:55:13,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1027,
          "text": "Right",
          "startTime": "00:55:14,208",
          "endTime": "00:55:14,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1028,
          "text": "... is current dollars then, and you make no assumptions about",
          "startTime": "00:55:14,648",
          "endTime": "00:55:18,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1029,
          "text": "actual inflation-",
          "startTime": "00:55:18,708",
          "endTime": "00:55:19,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1030,
          "text": "No",
          "startTime": "00:55:19,888",
          "endTime": "00:55:20,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 1031,
          "text": "... between now and then.",
          "startTime": "00:55:20,078",
          "endTime": "00:55:20,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1032,
          "text": "So the numbers below, the first number in the",
          "startTime": "00:55:21,108",
          "endTime": "00:55:24,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 1033,
          "text": "parentheses is what it costs to build the Civic Campus in",
          "startTime": "00:55:24,748",
          "endTime": "00:55:28,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1034,
          "text": "2029.",
          "startTime": "00:55:28,808",
          "endTime": "00:55:29,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1035,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:55:29,668",
          "endTime": "00:55:29,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1036,
          "text": "Right. The second number, the 185.9, is the",
          "startTime": "00:55:30,288",
          "endTime": "00:55:34,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 1037,
          "text": "cost of building the police station in",
          "startTime": "00:55:34,148",
          "endTime": "00:55:36,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1038,
          "text": "2037.",
          "startTime": "00:55:36,768",
          "endTime": "00:55:38,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 1039,
          "text": "37. Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:55:38,497",
          "endTime": "00:55:38,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1040,
          "text": "Which that includes the escalation to 2037.",
          "startTime": "00:55:39,588",
          "endTime": "00:55:42,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1041,
          "text": "It includes the 6%",
          "startTime": "00:55:42,928",
          "endTime": "00:55:44,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1042,
          "text": "escalation.",
          "startTime": "00:55:45,028",
          "endTime": "00:55:46,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1043,
          "text": "Got it.",
          "startTime": "00:55:47,128",
          "endTime": "00:55:47,298"
        },
        {
          "index": 1044,
          "text": "But it does not include any adjustment to that in the",
          "startTime": "00:55:47,308",
          "endTime": "00:55:51,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1045,
          "text": "cost of-",
          "startTime": "00:55:51,208",
          "endTime": "00:55:51,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1046,
          "text": "Inflation",
          "startTime": "00:55:52,128",
          "endTime": "00:55:52,398"
        },
        {
          "index": 1047,
          "text": "... the 2, 3, 4% inflation.",
          "startTime": "00:55:52,428",
          "endTime": "00:55:55,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1048,
          "text": "No.",
          "startTime": "00:55:56,168",
          "endTime": "00:55:56,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1049,
          "text": "So that's, in a sense, both of these are sort of an",
          "startTime": "00:55:56,468",
          "endTime": "00:55:59,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 1050,
          "text": "overstatement",
          "startTime": "00:55:59,848",
          "endTime": "00:56:00,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1051,
          "text": "of the real cost of money.",
          "startTime": "00:56:01,888",
          "endTime": "00:56:03,727"
        },
        {
          "index": 1052,
          "text": "I challenge that a little bit.",
          "startTime": "00:56:04,528",
          "endTime": "00:56:06,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1053,
          "text": "I mean, Harry's-",
          "startTime": "00:56:06,788",
          "endTime": "00:56:08,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1054,
          "text": "Said it a little bit before, I'm not an economist, so I can't",
          "startTime": "00:56:08,048",
          "endTime": "00:56:11,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1055,
          "text": "weigh too far into that. But ultimately, as I said before,",
          "startTime": "00:56:11,928",
          "endTime": "00:56:15,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1056,
          "text": "you're still outstripping the pace of what the consumer price is.",
          "startTime": "00:56:16,308",
          "endTime": "00:56:19,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 1057,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:56:19,728",
          "endTime": "00:56:19,838"
        },
        {
          "index": 1058,
          "text": "Right?",
          "startTime": "00:56:19,838",
          "endTime": "00:56:19,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1059,
          "text": "Six. It's that 6% that we talked about before.",
          "startTime": "00:56:20,688",
          "endTime": "00:56:23,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1060,
          "text": "Yeah. But",
          "startTime": "00:56:24,108",
          "endTime": "00:56:24,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1061,
          "text": "just for clarity,",
          "startTime": "00:56:25,528",
          "endTime": "00:56:27,998"
        },
        {
          "index": 1062,
          "text": "the 185 includes the 6%. It doesn't",
          "startTime": "00:56:29,158",
          "endTime": "00:56:32,398"
        },
        {
          "index": 1063,
          "text": "include any adjustment to somebody looking",
          "startTime": "00:56:32,428",
          "endTime": "00:56:36,358"
        },
        {
          "index": 1064,
          "text": "at that, that inflation has done, is responsible for a piece",
          "startTime": "00:56:36,408",
          "endTime": "00:56:40,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1065,
          "text": "of that, so to speak.",
          "startTime": "00:56:40,368",
          "endTime": "00:56:41,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1066,
          "text": "That's correct.",
          "startTime": "00:56:42,308",
          "endTime": "00:56:42,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1067,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:56:42,888",
          "endTime": "00:56:43,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1068,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:56:43,288",
          "endTime": "00:56:43,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1069,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:56:43,848",
          "endTime": "00:56:44,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 1070,
          "text": "Well-",
          "startTime": "00:56:44,328",
          "endTime": "00:56:44,438"
        },
        {
          "index": 1071,
          "text": "And",
          "startTime": "00:56:46,068",
          "endTime": "00:56:46,198"
        },
        {
          "index": 1072,
          "text": "I recognize, you could make whatever assumption you wanted to make.",
          "startTime": "00:56:47,348",
          "endTime": "00:56:50,738"
        },
        {
          "index": 1073,
          "text": "Inflation will be 3%, escalated will be 6%,",
          "startTime": "00:56:50,808",
          "endTime": "00:56:54,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1074,
          "text": "and so the real increase is something-",
          "startTime": "00:56:54,628",
          "endTime": "00:56:57,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 1075,
          "text": "Right",
          "startTime": "00:56:57,208",
          "endTime": "00:56:57,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1076,
          "text": "... but it's all funny money numbers between here and there.",
          "startTime": "00:56:57,888",
          "endTime": "00:57:01,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1077,
          "text": "The clarity there, Paul, is that",
          "startTime": "00:57:01,408",
          "endTime": "00:57:03,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1078,
          "text": "if you're trying to gauge what somebody feels that number",
          "startTime": "00:57:03,808",
          "endTime": "00:57:07,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1079,
          "text": "is, right?",
          "startTime": "00:57:08,068",
          "endTime": "00:57:09,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1080,
          "text": "Right. And I'm not disputing that at all.",
          "startTime": "00:57:09,408",
          "endTime": "00:57:12,398"
        },
        {
          "index": 1081,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:57:12,408",
          "endTime": "00:57:12,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1082,
          "text": "I'm just thinking for,",
          "startTime": "00:57:12,668",
          "endTime": "00:57:14,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 1083,
          "text": "in terms of actually paying for it in real dollars.",
          "startTime": "00:57:16,148",
          "endTime": "00:57:19,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1084,
          "text": "That is the cost that the contractor would say you're going",
          "startTime": "00:57:19,888",
          "endTime": "00:57:23,817"
        },
        {
          "index": 1085,
          "text": "to pay in 20-",
          "startTime": "00:57:23,828",
          "endTime": "00:57:25,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1086,
          "text": "In 20-",
          "startTime": "00:57:25,868",
          "endTime": "00:57:26,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1087,
          "text": "2037.",
          "startTime": "00:57:27,208",
          "endTime": "00:57:28,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1088,
          "text": "2037.",
          "startTime": "00:57:28,448",
          "endTime": "00:57:28,458"
        },
        {
          "index": 1089,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:57:28,688",
          "endTime": "00:57:28,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1090,
          "text": "To build that police station.",
          "startTime": "00:57:29,148",
          "endTime": "00:57:30,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1091,
          "text": "Heck.",
          "startTime": "00:57:32,088",
          "endTime": "00:57:32,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1092,
          "text": "Yeah. Okay.",
          "startTime": "00:57:34,688",
          "endTime": "00:57:36,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1093,
          "text": "In eight years, $185 million sounds cheap.",
          "startTime": "00:57:37,068",
          "endTime": "00:57:40,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1094,
          "text": "That'd be great news for us.",
          "startTime": "00:57:40,668",
          "endTime": "00:57:42,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1095,
          "text": "I think",
          "startTime": "00:57:44,848",
          "endTime": "00:57:45,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 1096,
          "text": "maybe a slightly different take on that.",
          "startTime": "00:57:47,468",
          "endTime": "00:57:50,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1097,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:57:50,537",
          "endTime": "00:57:50,537"
        },
        {
          "index": 1098,
          "text": "The question for me is that,",
          "startTime": "00:57:50,548",
          "endTime": "00:57:52,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1099,
          "text": "it would be nice to know, easy enough to",
          "startTime": "00:57:54,788",
          "endTime": "00:57:58,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1100,
          "text": "calculate, how much of the 185.9",
          "startTime": "00:57:58,468",
          "endTime": "00:58:02,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1101,
          "text": "million was because of the delay.",
          "startTime": "00:58:02,268",
          "endTime": "00:58:06,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 1102,
          "text": "The escalation.",
          "startTime": "00:58:06,408",
          "endTime": "00:58:07,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1103,
          "text": "Yeah, because I think the",
          "startTime": "00:58:07,528",
          "endTime": "00:58:08,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1104,
          "text": "common intuition might be, we'll build one now, then",
          "startTime": "00:58:10,848",
          "endTime": "00:58:14,657"
        },
        {
          "index": 1105,
          "text": "build one later,",
          "startTime": "00:58:14,708",
          "endTime": "00:58:15,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1106,
          "text": "and what's the diff?",
          "startTime": "00:58:16,488",
          "endTime": "00:58:18,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1107,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "00:58:19,408",
          "endTime": "00:58:19,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1108,
          "text": "And I think that's the point that I think is important is",
          "startTime": "00:58:19,738",
          "endTime": "00:58:23,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1109,
          "text": "that the cost of delay is costing a lot",
          "startTime": "00:58:23,068",
          "endTime": "00:58:26,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1110,
          "text": "more than you imagine.",
          "startTime": "00:58:27,028",
          "endTime": "00:58:28,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1111,
          "text": "Yes.",
          "startTime": "00:58:28,588",
          "endTime": "00:58:28,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 1112,
          "text": "Yeah. And I think that it might be useful to highlight the-",
          "startTime": "00:58:29,448",
          "endTime": "00:58:33,007"
        },
        {
          "index": 1113,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:58:33,018",
          "endTime": "00:58:33,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1114,
          "text": "So in this strategy, the $185.9",
          "startTime": "00:58:34,708",
          "endTime": "00:58:37,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1115,
          "text": "amount is for the police station.",
          "startTime": "00:58:38,908",
          "endTime": "00:58:40,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1116,
          "text": "I know. Right.",
          "startTime": "00:58:40,588",
          "endTime": "00:58:41,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 1117,
          "text": "So go back to slide strategy two.",
          "startTime": "00:58:41,168",
          "endTime": "00:58:43,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1118,
          "text": "That's 116 million if you build it now.",
          "startTime": "00:58:45,908",
          "endTime": "00:58:49,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1119,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:58:49,638",
          "endTime": "00:58:50,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1120,
          "text": "So the difference between 116, and I've already forgot the other number,",
          "startTime": "00:58:50,157",
          "endTime": "00:58:53,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1121,
          "text": "185 is that.",
          "startTime": "00:58:53,708",
          "endTime": "00:58:55,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1122,
          "text": "Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's clean subtraction, but it's fine.",
          "startTime": "00:58:57,068",
          "endTime": "00:59:00,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1123,
          "text": "It's close enough. I think that's the point I presume Chair's making.",
          "startTime": "00:59:00,908",
          "endTime": "00:59:04,907"
        },
        {
          "index": 1124,
          "text": "So-",
          "startTime": "00:59:05,028",
          "endTime": "00:59:05,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1125,
          "text": "... for us to get to those numbers,",
          "startTime": "00:59:05,438",
          "endTime": "00:59:07,358"
        },
        {
          "index": 1126,
          "text": "we took the 116.6 and multiplied it times",
          "startTime": "00:59:08,708",
          "endTime": "00:59:12,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1127,
          "text": "6% per year for eight years.",
          "startTime": "00:59:12,688",
          "endTime": "00:59:14,418"
        },
        {
          "index": 1128,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "00:59:14,448",
          "endTime": "00:59:14,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1129,
          "text": "Which got us to the",
          "startTime": "00:59:15,488",
          "endTime": "00:59:16,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1130,
          "text": "185.9.",
          "startTime": "00:59:17,968",
          "endTime": "00:59:18,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1131,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "00:59:18,828",
          "endTime": "00:59:19,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1132,
          "text": "And so likewise,",
          "startTime": "00:59:20,808",
          "endTime": "00:59:21,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 1133,
          "text": "in",
          "startTime": "00:59:22,728",
          "endTime": "00:59:22,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1134,
          "text": "what we will call current, the police station would cost,",
          "startTime": "00:59:24,088",
          "endTime": "00:59:26,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 1135,
          "text": "I'm sorry, the Civic Campus would cost-",
          "startTime": "00:59:27,748",
          "endTime": "00:59:29,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1136,
          "text": "94",
          "startTime": "00:59:29,828",
          "endTime": "00:59:30,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1137,
          "text": "... and in the other scenario.",
          "startTime": "00:59:31,388",
          "endTime": "00:59:33,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1138,
          "text": "It would cost 151.",
          "startTime": "00:59:33,528",
          "endTime": "00:59:34,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1139,
          "text": "So like 40,",
          "startTime": "00:59:35,888",
          "endTime": "00:59:36,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1140,
          "text": "60 something.",
          "startTime": "00:59:37,688",
          "endTime": "00:59:38,147"
        },
        {
          "index": 1141,
          "text": "Yeah. She's roughly 60,000. 60 million,",
          "startTime": "00:59:38,408",
          "endTime": "00:59:41,698"
        },
        {
          "index": 1142,
          "text": "sorry.",
          "startTime": "00:59:41,908",
          "endTime": "00:59:42,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1143,
          "text": "60 million.",
          "startTime": "00:59:43,268",
          "endTime": "00:59:44,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1144,
          "text": "All right. Well, yeah, I mean, it's 6% compounded by a year or so.",
          "startTime": "00:59:46,228",
          "endTime": "00:59:49,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 1145,
          "text": "It's going to be a big deal.",
          "startTime": "00:59:49,428",
          "endTime": "00:59:50,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1146,
          "text": "It's going to be big.",
          "startTime": "00:59:50,668",
          "endTime": "00:59:51,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1147,
          "text": "I just think it's good from a communication point of view, because there's an",
          "startTime": "00:59:51,668",
          "endTime": "00:59:55,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1148,
          "text": "intuition that",
          "startTime": "00:59:55,208",
          "endTime": "00:59:57,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 1149,
          "text": "if",
          "startTime": "00:59:58,168",
          "endTime": "00:59:58,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1150,
          "text": "I just wait, if I just stay things out, it's going to be better",
          "startTime": "01:00:00,188",
          "endTime": "01:00:03,678"
        },
        {
          "index": 1151,
          "text": "somehow.",
          "startTime": "01:00:04,528",
          "endTime": "01:00:05,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1152,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:00:05,448",
          "endTime": "01:00:05,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1153,
          "text": "As opposed to",
          "startTime": "01:00:07,268",
          "endTime": "01:00:08,728"
        },
        {
          "index": 1154,
          "text": "at 6% per year.",
          "startTime": "01:00:10,108",
          "endTime": "01:00:12,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 1155,
          "text": "8%. What was the number, six?",
          "startTime": "01:00:13,288",
          "endTime": "01:00:14,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1156,
          "text": "6%.",
          "startTime": "01:00:14,908",
          "endTime": "01:00:14,978"
        },
        {
          "index": 1157,
          "text": "6%.",
          "startTime": "01:00:15,188",
          "endTime": "01:00:15,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1158,
          "text": "For eight years.",
          "startTime": "01:00:16,068",
          "endTime": "01:00:16,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1159,
          "text": "Okay. For eight years.",
          "startTime": "01:00:16,788",
          "endTime": "01:00:17,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1160,
          "text": "Yeah, it's going to",
          "startTime": "01:00:18,448",
          "endTime": "01:00:19,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 1161,
          "text": "be a significant",
          "startTime": "01:00:20,308",
          "endTime": "01:00:21,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1162,
          "text": "effect every year you wait.",
          "startTime": "01:00:22,528",
          "endTime": "01:00:24,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 1163,
          "text": "Definitely.",
          "startTime": "01:00:24,728",
          "endTime": "01:00:25,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1164,
          "text": "You can't just wait a year. Well, I mean, that's your point.",
          "startTime": "01:00:25,988",
          "endTime": "01:00:28,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1165,
          "text": "We can try to wait a year.",
          "startTime": "01:00:29,028",
          "endTime": "01:00:31,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1166,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:00:31,328",
          "endTime": "01:00:31,338"
        },
        {
          "index": 1167,
          "text": "But anyway, I think it's important to call that out.",
          "startTime": "01:00:31,368",
          "endTime": "01:00:34,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1168,
          "text": "Yeah. And I think you can look back at that graphic that we showed initially that",
          "startTime": "01:00:34,468",
          "endTime": "01:00:38,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1169,
          "text": "shows if we had started in 2027, if we were getting in",
          "startTime": "01:00:38,468",
          "endTime": "01:00:41,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1170,
          "text": "2027 for both projects at 188, if we're bidding in",
          "startTime": "01:00:41,928",
          "endTime": "01:00:45,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1171,
          "text": "2029 for both projects, it's now 201.",
          "startTime": "01:00:45,708",
          "endTime": "01:00:47,707"
        },
        {
          "index": 1172,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:00:48,648",
          "endTime": "01:00:48,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1173,
          "text": "Yeah. So",
          "startTime": "01:00:49,888",
          "endTime": "01:00:50,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 1174,
          "text": "basically more than double.",
          "startTime": "01:00:51,368",
          "endTime": "01:00:53,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1175,
          "text": "So a lot to hear was we were talking about sort of a phased",
          "startTime": "01:00:53,368",
          "endTime": "01:00:57,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1176,
          "text": "approach, that there's the cost implication on it, and then",
          "startTime": "01:00:57,188",
          "endTime": "01:01:00,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1177,
          "text": "there's the risk to whether or not you're going to have the full vision.",
          "startTime": "01:01:00,988",
          "endTime": "01:01:03,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1178,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:01:04,548",
          "endTime": "01:01:04,728"
        },
        {
          "index": 1179,
          "text": "Because in addition toYou're",
          "startTime": "01:01:04,828",
          "endTime": "01:01:08,530"
        },
        {
          "index": 1180,
          "text": "building one, and then you're going to come back and you hopefully have a funding",
          "startTime": "01:01:08,600",
          "endTime": "01:01:11,900"
        },
        {
          "index": 1181,
          "text": "source that the public supports. So as I mentioned",
          "startTime": "01:01:12,000",
          "endTime": "01:01:15,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1182,
          "text": "when I started, this is over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time with",
          "startTime": "01:01:15,980",
          "endTime": "01:01:19,210"
        },
        {
          "index": 1183,
          "text": "community engagement and working with communities to get to",
          "startTime": "01:01:19,720",
          "endTime": "01:01:22,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 1184,
          "text": "funding these projects. And obviously I'm not the funding expert, but I'm helping",
          "startTime": "01:01:24,040",
          "endTime": "01:01:27,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 1185,
          "text": "with messaging, communication, understanding of the",
          "startTime": "01:01:28,040",
          "endTime": "01:01:31,760"
        },
        {
          "index": 1186,
          "text": "projects, and et cetera.",
          "startTime": "01:01:31,820",
          "endTime": "01:01:33,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1187,
          "text": "And so when you're, and we're not saying this is your approach, but if you're",
          "startTime": "01:01:34,160",
          "endTime": "01:01:38,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1188,
          "text": "going for a bond, which a lot of communities do,",
          "startTime": "01:01:38,180",
          "endTime": "01:01:40,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1189,
          "text": "you're always going to have people who are fantastic supporters of",
          "startTime": "01:01:41,960",
          "endTime": "01:01:45,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1190,
          "text": "specific items of any kind and they'll support everything.",
          "startTime": "01:01:45,690",
          "endTime": "01:01:48,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 1191,
          "text": "Then you have people who are the opposite end of that spectrum who will never pay",
          "startTime": "01:01:49,240",
          "endTime": "01:01:52,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1192,
          "text": "for anything.",
          "startTime": "01:01:52,720",
          "endTime": "01:01:53,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1193,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:01:54,040",
          "endTime": "01:01:54,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1194,
          "text": "And there's a certain percentage always of either end of that spectrum.",
          "startTime": "01:01:54,560",
          "endTime": "01:01:57,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1195,
          "text": "In the middle are the people who you're trying to communicate what the need",
          "startTime": "01:01:58,180",
          "endTime": "01:02:02,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 1196,
          "text": "is and is the cost reasonable.",
          "startTime": "01:02:02,120",
          "endTime": "01:02:05,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1197,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:02:06,140",
          "endTime": "01:02:06,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1198,
          "text": "What often is the trap",
          "startTime": "01:02:07,440",
          "endTime": "01:02:08,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 1199,
          "text": "is that people go out for a bond.",
          "startTime": "01:02:10,460",
          "endTime": "01:02:12,279"
        },
        {
          "index": 1200,
          "text": "There's a number that's put out there, and it doesn't pass.",
          "startTime": "01:02:13,419",
          "endTime": "01:02:16,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1201,
          "text": "And I'm not saying this would happen to you, but it's something that's relatively",
          "startTime": "01:02:16,640",
          "endTime": "01:02:19,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 1202,
          "text": "common. And the community says, \"That's just way too expensive.\"",
          "startTime": "01:02:19,660",
          "endTime": "01:02:22,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1203,
          "text": "Now you go back out a year later, and you've somehow",
          "startTime": "01:02:24,140",
          "endTime": "01:02:27,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1204,
          "text": "addressed the community's concern.",
          "startTime": "01:02:28,160",
          "endTime": "01:02:29,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1205,
          "text": "You've pared that number back, but you've lost a year of buying power.",
          "startTime": "01:02:29,620",
          "endTime": "01:02:33,079"
        },
        {
          "index": 1206,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:02:33,320",
          "endTime": "01:02:33,470"
        },
        {
          "index": 1207,
          "text": "And so now you can't even build what that original vision is.",
          "startTime": "01:02:33,800",
          "endTime": "01:02:37,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 1208,
          "text": "We've been working with another community that I won't mention.",
          "startTime": "01:02:37,660",
          "endTime": "01:02:40,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1209,
          "text": "They've tried four times to do a public safety book",
          "startTime": "01:02:40,900",
          "endTime": "01:02:43,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1210,
          "text": "that includes a fire station and a police. Four times.",
          "startTime": "01:02:44,860",
          "endTime": "01:02:48,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1211,
          "text": "Mm.",
          "startTime": "01:02:48,200",
          "endTime": "01:02:48,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1212,
          "text": "First time was like $6 million. The last time they tried was",
          "startTime": "01:02:48,620",
          "endTime": "01:02:52,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1213,
          "text": "$15 million. The version that we did with them was almost $32 million.",
          "startTime": "01:02:52,450",
          "endTime": "01:02:56,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1214,
          "text": "Wow.",
          "startTime": "01:02:56,740",
          "endTime": "01:02:57,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1215,
          "text": "And there's other complications within.",
          "startTime": "01:02:57,740",
          "endTime": "01:02:59,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1216,
          "text": "But ultimately,",
          "startTime": "01:03:00,680",
          "endTime": "01:03:02,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1217,
          "text": "every time you have to go to the community, you're finding those ends of the",
          "startTime": "01:03:03,000",
          "endTime": "01:03:06,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1218,
          "text": "spectrum. Trying to find the reasonable argument in the middle.",
          "startTime": "01:03:06,520",
          "endTime": "01:03:10,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1219,
          "text": "And every time takes time, energy,",
          "startTime": "01:03:11,600",
          "endTime": "01:03:14,860"
        },
        {
          "index": 1220,
          "text": "investment of staff or council to",
          "startTime": "01:03:15,180",
          "endTime": "01:03:19,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1221,
          "text": "move these projects forward. So when you get to that",
          "startTime": "01:03:19,219",
          "endTime": "01:03:23,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1222,
          "text": "eight-year mark that we're talking about here, you're going to go through",
          "startTime": "01:03:23,480",
          "endTime": "01:03:27,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1223,
          "text": "that process again, and hopefully you've got the same",
          "startTime": "01:03:27,480",
          "endTime": "01:03:30,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1224,
          "text": "support from the community that you did when you did it the first time.",
          "startTime": "01:03:32,300",
          "endTime": "01:03:34,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1225,
          "text": "And so there's a risk then.",
          "startTime": "01:03:35,180",
          "endTime": "01:03:36,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 1226,
          "text": "Okay. So last scenario.",
          "startTime": "01:03:39,420",
          "endTime": "01:03:42,240"
        },
        {
          "index": 1227,
          "text": "So the",
          "startTime": "01:03:44,220",
          "endTime": "01:03:45,470"
        },
        {
          "index": 1228,
          "text": "campus will be built,",
          "startTime": "01:03:46,780",
          "endTime": "01:03:47,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1229,
          "text": "and same sort of conversation about the",
          "startTime": "01:03:48,940",
          "endTime": "01:03:52,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1230,
          "text": "existing building and the",
          "startTime": "01:03:53,600",
          "endTime": "01:03:55,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1232,
          "text": "One more IP.",
          "startTime": "01:03:58,220",
          "endTime": "01:03:58,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1233,
          "text": "And thank you.",
          "startTime": "01:03:58,980",
          "endTime": "01:04:00,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 1234,
          "text": "Those have been removed for the same reasons.",
          "startTime": "01:04:01,720",
          "endTime": "01:04:04,320"
        },
        {
          "index": 1235,
          "text": "So the last strategy is that you do nothing right now,",
          "startTime": "01:04:08,880",
          "endTime": "01:04:12,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1236,
          "text": "and",
          "startTime": "01:04:13,920",
          "endTime": "01:04:14,320"
        },
        {
          "index": 1237,
          "text": "you delay both projects to whatever timeframe you",
          "startTime": "01:04:15,820",
          "endTime": "01:04:19,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 1238,
          "text": "decide. But to keep things apples to apples, we said you delay eight",
          "startTime": "01:04:19,580",
          "endTime": "01:04:23,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1239,
          "text": "years. But really, it's unknown.",
          "startTime": "01:04:23,420",
          "endTime": "01:04:25,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1240,
          "text": "You don't know what might happen. So the",
          "startTime": "01:04:26,700",
          "endTime": "01:04:30,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1241,
          "text": "pros are you don't have any immediate out-of-pocket capital",
          "startTime": "01:04:30,440",
          "endTime": "01:04:33,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1242,
          "text": "expenditures.",
          "startTime": "01:04:33,880",
          "endTime": "01:04:34,639"
        },
        {
          "index": 1243,
          "text": "But the cons are, the biggest one being the construction escalation.",
          "startTime": "01:04:35,780",
          "endTime": "01:04:39,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1244,
          "text": "The city abandons downtown for an undetermined amount of time.",
          "startTime": "01:04:41,140",
          "endTime": "01:04:44,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 1245,
          "text": "The remodeling space for public safety is expensive, like we talked",
          "startTime": "01:04:45,820",
          "endTime": "01:04:48,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 1246,
          "text": "about.",
          "startTime": "01:04:49,000",
          "endTime": "01:04:50,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1247,
          "text": "You now have somewhat of a misalignment with your Downtown Vitality Task",
          "startTime": "01:04:51,760",
          "endTime": "01:04:55,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1248,
          "text": "Force goals.",
          "startTime": "01:04:55,680",
          "endTime": "01:04:56,210"
        },
        {
          "index": 1249,
          "text": "Does not address the long-term facility management.",
          "startTime": "01:04:57,940",
          "endTime": "01:05:00,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1250,
          "text": "As a reminder, these were the priority projects.",
          "startTime": "01:05:01,240",
          "endTime": "01:05:04,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1251,
          "text": "So all the projects that needed to come behind these ones are also now",
          "startTime": "01:05:04,449",
          "endTime": "01:05:08,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1252,
          "text": "frozen.",
          "startTime": "01:05:08,120",
          "endTime": "01:05:08,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1253,
          "text": "You have loss of momentum. You've been working on",
          "startTime": "01:05:10,580",
          "endTime": "01:05:14,450"
        },
        {
          "index": 1254,
          "text": "this topic for significant amount of time.",
          "startTime": "01:05:14,500",
          "endTime": "01:05:16,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1255,
          "text": "Other citywide facility strategy projects are further delayed, just mentioned",
          "startTime": "01:05:19,200",
          "endTime": "01:05:22,370"
        },
        {
          "index": 1256,
          "text": "that. This is the highest cost to implement of all the options",
          "startTime": "01:05:22,480",
          "endTime": "01:05:26,449"
        },
        {
          "index": 1257,
          "text": "because you're paying the most escalation over time.",
          "startTime": "01:05:26,460",
          "endTime": "01:05:28,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1258,
          "text": "And then you have the highest long-term lease costs because you don't",
          "startTime": "01:05:30,040",
          "endTime": "01:05:33,950"
        },
        {
          "index": 1259,
          "text": "know how long the city's going to have these lease costs.",
          "startTime": "01:05:34,000",
          "endTime": "01:05:36,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 1260,
          "text": "All right.",
          "startTime": "01:05:40,600",
          "endTime": "01:05:40,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1261,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "01:05:41,700",
          "endTime": "01:05:41,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1262,
          "text": "back to our graph, or diagram.",
          "startTime": "01:05:42,840",
          "endTime": "01:05:45,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1263,
          "text": "What we've done is we've taken the",
          "startTime": "01:05:46,840",
          "endTime": "01:05:49,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1264,
          "text": "scenario number one, which is you build everything.",
          "startTime": "01:05:49,920",
          "endTime": "01:05:52,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1265,
          "text": "That's the orange dot at the bottom.",
          "startTime": "01:05:52,460",
          "endTime": "01:05:54,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1266,
          "text": "Assumes you're bidding the project in 2029.",
          "startTime": "01:05:54,580",
          "endTime": "01:05:57,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1267,
          "text": "It's $211 million.",
          "startTime": "01:05:57,800",
          "endTime": "01:05:59,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1268,
          "text": "Option two, where you delay city campus, is the one, the dot that's furthest on the",
          "startTime": "01:06:01,260",
          "endTime": "01:06:05,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1269,
          "text": "upper left, and that's at $268 million.",
          "startTime": "01:06:05,360",
          "endTime": "01:06:08,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1270,
          "text": "The option three, which is delay the police station,",
          "startTime": "01:06:09,720",
          "endTime": "01:06:12,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1271,
          "text": "is in the middle, is $281 million. And",
          "startTime": "01:06:12,760",
          "endTime": "01:06:16,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1272,
          "text": "the last option is the",
          "startTime": "01:06:16,620",
          "endTime": "01:06:18,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1273,
          "text": "$337 million. Again, assuming that you're waiting eight years, it should really",
          "startTime": "01:06:20,060",
          "endTime": "01:06:24,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1274,
          "text": "go down.",
          "startTime": "01:06:24,060",
          "endTime": "01:06:24,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1275,
          "text": "At that point, from 237 onwards,",
          "startTime": "01:06:25,680",
          "endTime": "01:06:28,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1276,
          "text": "it's $20 million a year in escalation for",
          "startTime": "01:06:29,580",
          "endTime": "01:06:33,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1277,
          "text": "the cost of these projects. So going back to looking at our three blue",
          "startTime": "01:06:33,480",
          "endTime": "01:06:37,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1278,
          "text": "dots on the left, you're kind of back to that scenario,",
          "startTime": "01:06:37,260",
          "endTime": "01:06:40,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1279,
          "text": "where we talked about it, but we're going to pause it for some",
          "startTime": "01:06:41,540",
          "endTime": "01:06:45,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1280,
          "text": "duration of time.",
          "startTime": "01:06:45,220",
          "endTime": "01:06:46,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1281,
          "text": "I'll leave it here just for a",
          "startTime": "01:06:49,220",
          "endTime": "01:06:50,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 1282,
          "text": "minute if there's any questions.",
          "startTime": "01:06:51,620",
          "endTime": "01:06:53,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1283,
          "text": "I was thinking you were leaving here for dramatic",
          "startTime": "01:06:58,300",
          "endTime": "01:06:59,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1284,
          "text": "effect.",
          "startTime": "01:07:01,540",
          "endTime": "01:07:02,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1285,
          "text": "That's it.",
          "startTime": "01:07:03,820",
          "endTime": "01:07:04,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 1286,
          "text": "All right. So in summary, we've given you four",
          "startTime": "01:07:06,640",
          "endTime": "01:07:09,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1287,
          "text": "differentAvenues or implementation strategies for",
          "startTime": "01:07:09,920",
          "endTime": "01:07:13,805"
        },
        {
          "index": 1288,
          "text": "this. We've talked about the pros and cons relative to that.",
          "startTime": "01:07:13,836",
          "endTime": "01:07:17,005"
        },
        {
          "index": 1289,
          "text": "The only other thing that I might add here is that",
          "startTime": "01:07:17,056",
          "endTime": "01:07:20,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 1290,
          "text": "when I first had the opportunity to talk to you, the thing that we",
          "startTime": "01:07:20,896",
          "endTime": "01:07:24,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 1291,
          "text": "were most potentially excited about these projects is the potential",
          "startTime": "01:07:24,716",
          "endTime": "01:07:28,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 1292,
          "text": "catalyst that they could bring, particularly with what OB",
          "startTime": "01:07:28,476",
          "endTime": "01:07:32,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 1293,
          "text": "was doing at the other end of Madison.",
          "startTime": "01:07:32,396",
          "endTime": "01:07:34,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 1294,
          "text": "And as an architect who works on civic buildings,",
          "startTime": "01:07:34,976",
          "endTime": "01:07:38,406"
        },
        {
          "index": 1295,
          "text": "I'm incredibly excited about the potential of either of these, or both of",
          "startTime": "01:07:39,196",
          "endTime": "01:07:43,066"
        },
        {
          "index": 1296,
          "text": "these projects moving at once with the potential economic",
          "startTime": "01:07:43,116",
          "endTime": "01:07:46,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 1297,
          "text": "catalyst that these projects moving with that credit growth.",
          "startTime": "01:07:46,936",
          "endTime": "01:07:49,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 1298,
          "text": "It's not often that we often get to work on one project,",
          "startTime": "01:07:51,116",
          "endTime": "01:07:54,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 1299,
          "text": "police station, city hall, or something along those lines.",
          "startTime": "01:07:55,176",
          "endTime": "01:07:57,556"
        },
        {
          "index": 1300,
          "text": "The potential to do two projects that have synergy and relationship",
          "startTime": "01:07:58,036",
          "endTime": "01:08:01,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 1301,
          "text": "together,",
          "startTime": "01:08:02,796",
          "endTime": "01:08:03,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 1302,
          "text": "as Mark said, this is sort of once in a generational",
          "startTime": "01:08:04,336",
          "endTime": "01:08:07,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 1303,
          "text": "opportunity.",
          "startTime": "01:08:07,376",
          "endTime": "01:08:09,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 1304,
          "text": "Hopefully this has given you enough information to think about.",
          "startTime": "01:08:10,556",
          "endTime": "01:08:13,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 1305,
          "text": "And I think this is where I hand it over to",
          "startTime": "01:08:14,596",
          "endTime": "01:08:18,297"
        },
        {
          "index": 1306,
          "text": "Mary.",
          "startTime": "01:08:18,576",
          "endTime": "01:08:18,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 1307,
          "text": "We've been asking questions all along, which is great.",
          "startTime": "01:08:19,116",
          "endTime": "01:08:21,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 1308,
          "text": "Is there any before we move to the next piece?",
          "startTime": "01:08:21,337",
          "endTime": "01:08:24,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 1309,
          "text": "We will be able to see these slides for",
          "startTime": "01:08:25,896",
          "endTime": "01:08:28,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 1310,
          "text": "the-",
          "startTime": "01:08:29,416",
          "endTime": "01:08:30,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 1311,
          "text": "Yes.",
          "startTime": "01:08:31,196",
          "endTime": "01:08:31,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 1312,
          "text": "I don't have to watch the video.",
          "startTime": "01:08:31,496",
          "endTime": "01:08:32,766"
        },
        {
          "index": 1313,
          "text": "No, we can email them out, but they'll be in the minutes.",
          "startTime": "01:08:33,396",
          "endTime": "01:08:35,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 1314,
          "text": "Paul,",
          "startTime": "01:08:36,576",
          "endTime": "01:08:36,887"
        },
        {
          "index": 1315,
          "text": "it makes sense. Paul, thank you.",
          "startTime": "01:08:38,996",
          "endTime": "01:08:41,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 1316,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "01:08:41,587",
          "endTime": "01:08:41,587"
        },
        {
          "index": 1317,
          "text": "I shouldn't have said all of it. There was one piece at the end that I didn't",
          "startTime": "01:08:43,656",
          "endTime": "01:08:47,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 1318,
          "text": "quite follow, the abandoned downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:08:47,536",
          "endTime": "01:08:49,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 1319,
          "text": "I feel like",
          "startTime": "01:08:49,456",
          "endTime": "01:08:50,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 1320,
          "text": "it appeared that the number",
          "startTime": "01:08:51,056",
          "endTime": "01:08:54,797"
        },
        {
          "index": 1321,
          "text": "assumed that the cost of",
          "startTime": "01:08:55,016",
          "endTime": "01:08:56,596"
        },
        {
          "index": 1322,
          "text": "building facilities somewhere else-",
          "startTime": "01:08:57,956",
          "endTime": "01:09:00,257"
        },
        {
          "index": 1323,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "01:09:00,356",
          "endTime": "01:09:00,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 1324,
          "text": "... would be the same as the downtown project,",
          "startTime": "01:09:00,837",
          "endTime": "01:09:02,547"
        },
        {
          "index": 1325,
          "text": "but it would be a fundamentally different project.",
          "startTime": "01:09:03,496",
          "endTime": "01:09:06,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 1326,
          "text": "You're right. If we were not doing these projects and we're doing",
          "startTime": "01:09:06,436",
          "endTime": "01:09:10,096"
        },
        {
          "index": 1327,
          "text": "something else somewhere else, those are not the funds.",
          "startTime": "01:09:10,177",
          "endTime": "01:09:13,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 1328,
          "text": "And I'm not sure who's sitting behind me, but I think that's a terrible idea.",
          "startTime": "01:09:14,096",
          "endTime": "01:09:17,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 1329,
          "text": "I should be clear about that. I'm not suggesting",
          "startTime": "01:09:17,616",
          "endTime": "01:09:21,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 1330,
          "text": "that we should go down that road, but I just want to make sure we're understanding",
          "startTime": "01:09:21,956",
          "endTime": "01:09:25,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 1331,
          "text": "the picture.",
          "startTime": "01:09:25,436",
          "endTime": "01:09:26,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 1332,
          "text": "Sure. Our purview, and I just want to reiterate it,",
          "startTime": "01:09:26,596",
          "endTime": "01:09:30,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 1333,
          "text": "is with the projects in front of us, what does it cost to",
          "startTime": "01:09:30,156",
          "endTime": "01:09:33,916"
        },
        {
          "index": 1334,
          "text": "implement just them?",
          "startTime": "01:09:34,076",
          "endTime": "01:09:35,177"
        },
        {
          "index": 1335,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:09:35,896",
          "endTime": "01:09:36,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 1336,
          "text": "As the architects, we don't own these costs of what you do-",
          "startTime": "01:09:36,096",
          "endTime": "01:09:39,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 1337,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "01:09:39,076",
          "endTime": "01:09:39,087"
        },
        {
          "index": 1338,
          "text": "... outside of that picture.",
          "startTime": "01:09:39,087",
          "endTime": "01:09:40,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 1339,
          "text": "Well, and also a potential clarification, if I'm understanding your",
          "startTime": "01:09:40,316",
          "endTime": "01:09:43,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 1340,
          "text": "question or concern correctly,",
          "startTime": "01:09:44,257",
          "endTime": "01:09:45,797"
        },
        {
          "index": 1341,
          "text": "it's called abandoned downtown because we're leaving for a significant period of",
          "startTime": "01:09:46,776",
          "endTime": "01:09:50,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 1342,
          "text": "time.",
          "startTime": "01:09:50,816",
          "endTime": "01:09:51,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 1343,
          "text": "Oh, I see.",
          "startTime": "01:09:51,436",
          "endTime": "01:09:51,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 1344,
          "text": "The goal would still be to eventually come back-",
          "startTime": "01:09:51,837",
          "endTime": "01:09:54,306"
        },
        {
          "index": 1345,
          "text": "Got it. Okay",
          "startTime": "01:09:54,476",
          "endTime": "01:09:55,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 1346,
          "text": "... and build it in this way.",
          "startTime": "01:09:55,166",
          "endTime": "01:09:56,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 1347,
          "text": "Well, then in theory, there's a fifth option, which is-",
          "startTime": "01:09:56,456",
          "endTime": "01:09:59,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 1348,
          "text": "We own it",
          "startTime": "01:09:59,696",
          "endTime": "01:10:00,146"
        },
        {
          "index": 1349,
          "text": "... we're not going to have city facilities.",
          "startTime": "01:10:00,146",
          "endTime": "01:10:01,566"
        },
        {
          "index": 1350,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:10:02,156",
          "endTime": "01:10:02,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 1351,
          "text": "Paul, could we condemn the county building and move out there?",
          "startTime": "01:10:03,316",
          "endTime": "01:10:06,156"
        },
        {
          "index": 1352,
          "text": "Yeah. I think obviously the thing that makes this at least a little bit more",
          "startTime": "01:10:09,436",
          "endTime": "01:10:13,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 1353,
          "text": "attractive than that is you'd be buying land if you-",
          "startTime": "01:10:13,056",
          "endTime": "01:10:16,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 1354,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "01:10:16,616",
          "endTime": "01:10:16,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 1355,
          "text": "... went forward. So there's additional costs to us.",
          "startTime": "01:10:16,885",
          "endTime": "01:10:19,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 1356,
          "text": "If I can play just devil's advocate for a moment here.",
          "startTime": "01:10:21,856",
          "endTime": "01:10:24,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 1357,
          "text": "If we're building two things at once instead of one,",
          "startTime": "01:10:26,116",
          "endTime": "01:10:29,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 1358,
          "text": "is there",
          "startTime": "01:10:29,956",
          "endTime": "01:10:30,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 1359,
          "text": "plenty of contractor",
          "startTime": "01:10:31,876",
          "endTime": "01:10:33,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 1360,
          "text": "capacity for doing this? I",
          "startTime": "01:10:34,196",
          "endTime": "01:10:36,545"
        },
        {
          "index": 1361,
          "text": "look at people building subdivisions,",
          "startTime": "01:10:37,356",
          "endTime": "01:10:39,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 1362,
          "text": "Ponderosa Ridge. They were sort of",
          "startTime": "01:10:39,976",
          "endTime": "01:10:43,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 1363,
          "text": "phasing that, I think, as much as anything to manage",
          "startTime": "01:10:43,636",
          "endTime": "01:10:47,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 1364,
          "text": "staff, employee costs, and so on.",
          "startTime": "01:10:47,776",
          "endTime": "01:10:51,556"
        },
        {
          "index": 1365,
          "text": "I'm just curious,",
          "startTime": "01:10:52,316",
          "endTime": "01:10:53,686"
        },
        {
          "index": 1366,
          "text": "we're not going to run into a case that we've got a limited pool of",
          "startTime": "01:10:54,616",
          "endTime": "01:10:58,246"
        },
        {
          "index": 1367,
          "text": "builders who can take on both of these at once.",
          "startTime": "01:10:58,276",
          "endTime": "01:11:00,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 1368,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:11:00,996",
          "endTime": "01:11:01,256"
        },
        {
          "index": 1369,
          "text": "That we're going to risk inflating a cost because of",
          "startTime": "01:11:01,296",
          "endTime": "01:11:05,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 1370,
          "text": "a small bidder pool.",
          "startTime": "01:11:05,116",
          "endTime": "01:11:06,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 1371,
          "text": "Right. I can't tell you what it'll be like in 2029-",
          "startTime": "01:11:06,556",
          "endTime": "01:11:09,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 1372,
          "text": "Sure",
          "startTime": "01:11:10,096",
          "endTime": "01:11:10,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 1373,
          "text": "... when these projects will bid. If you were to ask me today, I'd",
          "startTime": "01:11:10,436",
          "endTime": "01:11:14,406"
        },
        {
          "index": 1374,
          "text": "point you to the number of phone calls I get from contractors right now asking",
          "startTime": "01:11:14,436",
          "endTime": "01:11:18,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 1375,
          "text": "me what I'm working on.",
          "startTime": "01:11:18,396",
          "endTime": "01:11:19,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 1376,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:11:19,656",
          "endTime": "01:11:19,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 1377,
          "text": "There's a lot of",
          "startTime": "01:11:20,556",
          "endTime": "01:11:21,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 1378,
          "text": "capacity, if I could buy a term, or panic, in the",
          "startTime": "01:11:22,836",
          "endTime": "01:11:26,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 1379,
          "text": "contracting marketplace looking for sizable projects.",
          "startTime": "01:11:26,676",
          "endTime": "01:11:29,355"
        },
        {
          "index": 1380,
          "text": "There's not a lot going on in the state right now.",
          "startTime": "01:11:29,795",
          "endTime": "01:11:31,795"
        },
        {
          "index": 1381,
          "text": "We've finished some really big work, obviously the Portland Airport being one of",
          "startTime": "01:11:32,386",
          "endTime": "01:11:35,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 1382,
          "text": "those projects.",
          "startTime": "01:11:35,696",
          "endTime": "01:11:37,236"
        },
        {
          "index": 1383,
          "text": "But the",
          "startTime": "01:11:38,196",
          "endTime": "01:11:38,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 1384,
          "text": "larger construction firms that would work on a project like this, or",
          "startTime": "01:11:40,136",
          "endTime": "01:11:43,586"
        },
        {
          "index": 1385,
          "text": "even one of them,",
          "startTime": "01:11:43,716",
          "endTime": "01:11:44,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 1386,
          "text": "they're all looking for work.",
          "startTime": "01:11:45,856",
          "endTime": "01:11:46,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 1387,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:11:48,376",
          "endTime": "01:11:48,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 1388,
          "text": "The other things you can start to look at are the trajectory of school",
          "startTime": "01:11:50,056",
          "endTime": "01:11:53,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 1389,
          "text": "bonds. Usually those things go in waves.",
          "startTime": "01:11:53,696",
          "endTime": "01:11:55,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 1390,
          "text": "There's not a lot of housing being built right now, either",
          "startTime": "01:11:57,316",
          "endTime": "01:12:01,006"
        },
        {
          "index": 1391,
          "text": "market rate or affordable. Affordable is really mostly what's being built, but not",
          "startTime": "01:12:01,096",
          "endTime": "01:12:05,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 1392,
          "text": "large enough amounts.",
          "startTime": "01:12:05,176",
          "endTime": "01:12:06,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 1393,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:12:07,416",
          "endTime": "01:12:08,546"
        },
        {
          "index": 1394,
          "text": "There's not a lot of commercial offices being built because of the lags from the",
          "startTime": "01:12:08,616",
          "endTime": "01:12:11,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 1395,
          "text": "pandemic.",
          "startTime": "01:12:11,816",
          "endTime": "01:12:12,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 1396,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:12:12,596",
          "endTime": "01:12:12,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 1397,
          "text": "So lots of the other traditional markets for construction are a little",
          "startTime": "01:12:12,896",
          "endTime": "01:12:16,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 1398,
          "text": "bit slow.",
          "startTime": "01:12:16,876",
          "endTime": "01:12:17,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 1399,
          "text": "Mm-hmm. Okay.",
          "startTime": "01:12:17,656",
          "endTime": "01:12:18,995"
        },
        {
          "index": 1400,
          "text": "I think the thing I'll add, because in prepping for this, we did talk to a lot",
          "startTime": "01:12:19,016",
          "endTime": "01:12:22,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 1401,
          "text": "of contractors. Contractors we talked to were so intrigued with the idea of",
          "startTime": "01:12:22,976",
          "endTime": "01:12:26,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 1402,
          "text": "doing these together and all the efficiencies, as Ian had that slide",
          "startTime": "01:12:26,816",
          "endTime": "01:12:29,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 1403,
          "text": "previously. But it's how they could stagger trades and work with the different",
          "startTime": "01:12:29,856",
          "endTime": "01:12:33,506"
        },
        {
          "index": 1404,
          "text": "trades on the project. So there's a lot of advantages of",
          "startTime": "01:12:33,536",
          "endTime": "01:12:36,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 1405,
          "text": "having someone be putting windows on one side and then immediately roll to the",
          "startTime": "01:12:37,076",
          "endTime": "01:12:40,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 1406,
          "text": "other building and not have to leave for another job site.",
          "startTime": "01:12:40,556",
          "endTime": "01:12:43,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 1407,
          "text": "So you have a lot of control over who's working and how they work together when you",
          "startTime": "01:12:43,116",
          "endTime": "01:12:46,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 1408,
          "text": "do them together.",
          "startTime": "01:12:47,056",
          "endTime": "01:12:47,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 1409,
          "text": "We have a virtual question?",
          "startTime": "01:12:49,556",
          "endTime": "01:12:50,456"
        },
        {
          "index": 1410,
          "text": "Yeah. Councilor Bowden Allison has the line open right now.",
          "startTime": "01:12:51,296",
          "endTime": "01:12:54,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 1411,
          "text": "Oh, good. Allison?",
          "startTime": "01:12:55,136",
          "endTime": "01:12:55,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 1412,
          "text": "Hello, can you hear me okay?",
          "startTime": "01:12:56,756",
          "endTime": "01:12:58,046"
        },
        {
          "index": 1413,
          "text": "Loud and clear.",
          "startTime": "01:12:59,396",
          "endTime": "01:12:59,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 1414,
          "text": "Thank you.",
          "startTime": "01:13:00,476",
          "endTime": "01:13:00,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 1415,
          "text": "So my comment is more general, but I still wanted",
          "startTime": "01:13:02,056",
          "endTime": "01:13:05,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 1416,
          "text": "it to state it publicly.",
          "startTime": "01:13:05,976",
          "endTime": "01:13:08,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 1417,
          "text": "I am concerned about the land use",
          "startTime": "01:13:09,936",
          "endTime": "01:13:13,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 1418,
          "text": "conflict with the Downtown Vitality",
          "startTime": "01:13:13,296",
          "endTime": "01:13:16,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 1419,
          "text": "Strategy Task Force, their recommendations, and",
          "startTime": "01:13:18,236",
          "endTime": "01:13:21,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 1420,
          "text": "the current",
          "startTime": "01:13:22,656",
          "endTime": "01:13:23,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 1421,
          "text": "layout strategies that are being listed.",
          "startTime": "01:13:25,076",
          "endTime": "01:13:27,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 1422,
          "text": "And I know, again, recognizing that this topic is, more",
          "startTime": "01:13:27,316",
          "endTime": "01:13:31,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1423,
          "text": "directed at the funding mechanisms or",
          "startTime": "01:13:31,010",
          "endTime": "01:13:33,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1424,
          "text": "pairing buildings for",
          "startTime": "01:13:34,120",
          "endTime": "01:13:37,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 1425,
          "text": "order of construction. But I really do",
          "startTime": "01:13:38,840",
          "endTime": "01:13:42,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1426,
          "text": "want to keep going back towards that a",
          "startTime": "01:13:42,800",
          "endTime": "01:13:45,860"
        },
        {
          "index": 1427,
          "text": "institutional like control or civic inclusivity versus",
          "startTime": "01:13:46,960",
          "endTime": "01:13:50,760"
        },
        {
          "index": 1428,
          "text": "institutional control and secure",
          "startTime": "01:13:50,820",
          "endTime": "01:13:53,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1429,
          "text": "access needs are really not compatible",
          "startTime": "01:13:53,240",
          "endTime": "01:13:57,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1430,
          "text": "with the type of welcoming, open,",
          "startTime": "01:13:57,640",
          "endTime": "01:14:01,340"
        },
        {
          "index": 1431,
          "text": "shared, public, all of the buzzwords that we're looking for",
          "startTime": "01:14:01,460",
          "endTime": "01:14:05,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1432,
          "text": "with a revitalized civic campus. I just",
          "startTime": "01:14:05,460",
          "endTime": "01:14:09,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1433,
          "text": "can't see a world where",
          "startTime": "01:14:09,340",
          "endTime": "01:14:11,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1434,
          "text": "downtown can have the same",
          "startTime": "01:14:12,800",
          "endTime": "01:14:16,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 1435,
          "text": "walkability, community gathering, social interaction, economic activity",
          "startTime": "01:14:17,180",
          "endTime": "01:14:21,130"
        },
        {
          "index": 1436,
          "text": "when there all of these civic structures and there's a law",
          "startTime": "01:14:21,300",
          "endTime": "01:14:25,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1437,
          "text": "enforcement center directly across from it.",
          "startTime": "01:14:25,300",
          "endTime": "01:14:27,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 1438,
          "text": "I think it makes it a really hard",
          "startTime": "01:14:27,520",
          "endTime": "01:14:31,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1439,
          "text": "sell to community members. And in addition to all",
          "startTime": "01:14:31,420",
          "endTime": "01:14:35,410"
        },
        {
          "index": 1440,
          "text": "of the other barriers that were carefully mentioned in what it",
          "startTime": "01:14:35,420",
          "endTime": "01:14:39,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1441,
          "text": "takes to get the community on board with a large capital",
          "startTime": "01:14:39,360",
          "endTime": "01:14:43,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1442,
          "text": "project that will likely require bond and voter approval.",
          "startTime": "01:14:43,180",
          "endTime": "01:14:46,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 1443,
          "text": "So I want to bring that back to our conversation",
          "startTime": "01:14:46,840",
          "endTime": "01:14:49,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1444,
          "text": "of",
          "startTime": "01:14:50,020",
          "endTime": "01:14:50,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1445,
          "text": "thinking about how this land use is or is not compatible with the",
          "startTime": "01:14:51,800",
          "endTime": "01:14:55,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1446,
          "text": "recommendations from the task force, and how that",
          "startTime": "01:14:55,820",
          "endTime": "01:14:59,390"
        },
        {
          "index": 1447,
          "text": "will look to voters who may or may not have to appro-- or",
          "startTime": "01:14:59,440",
          "endTime": "01:15:02,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 1448,
          "text": "will have to approve if a bond is chosen as a funding",
          "startTime": "01:15:03,240",
          "endTime": "01:15:07,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1449,
          "text": "mechanism.",
          "startTime": "01:15:07,120",
          "endTime": "01:15:07,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1450,
          "text": "Yeah. Alison,",
          "startTime": "01:15:13,420",
          "endTime": "01:15:14,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1451,
          "text": "so you are concerned that having the police station",
          "startTime": "01:15:15,380",
          "endTime": "01:15:19,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1452,
          "text": "across from a place where we're trying to engage",
          "startTime": "01:15:19,140",
          "endTime": "01:15:22,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 1453,
          "text": "a wide variety of people coming in and out",
          "startTime": "01:15:23,180",
          "endTime": "01:15:26,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1454,
          "text": "is going to create an essential barrier just by,",
          "startTime": "01:15:27,200",
          "endTime": "01:15:31,170"
        },
        {
          "index": 1455,
          "text": "no offense to our police, we have great police, just by the essence of",
          "startTime": "01:15:31,380",
          "endTime": "01:15:35,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1456,
          "text": "a law enforcement building is going to make some people uncomfortable to",
          "startTime": "01:15:35,800",
          "endTime": "01:15:39,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 1457,
          "text": "go into the other space or come through that space.",
          "startTime": "01:15:39,620",
          "endTime": "01:15:43,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1458,
          "text": "We're a block away.",
          "startTime": "01:15:44,580",
          "endTime": "01:15:45,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1459,
          "text": "I will-",
          "startTime": "01:15:46,280",
          "endTime": "01:15:47,150"
        },
        {
          "index": 1460,
          "text": "Right now",
          "startTime": "01:15:47,840",
          "endTime": "01:15:47,850"
        },
        {
          "index": 1461,
          "text": "... I will speak for myself,",
          "startTime": "01:15:47,850",
          "endTime": "01:15:49,370"
        },
        {
          "index": 1462,
          "text": "and just note that others have conveyed to me",
          "startTime": "01:15:50,480",
          "endTime": "01:15:54,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1463,
          "text": "directly, but I'm not going to speak for every single person.",
          "startTime": "01:15:54,520",
          "endTime": "01:15:57,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1464,
          "text": "But",
          "startTime": "01:15:57,480",
          "endTime": "01:15:57,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1465,
          "text": "I definitely would have a deep discomfort",
          "startTime": "01:15:58,680",
          "endTime": "01:16:01,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1466,
          "text": "in using a plaza",
          "startTime": "01:16:02,020",
          "endTime": "01:16:05,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1467,
          "text": "for, or even the open amphitheater that was in one of the previous",
          "startTime": "01:16:05,700",
          "endTime": "01:16:09,250"
        },
        {
          "index": 1468,
          "text": "designs, I don't even know if it's on the table anymore.",
          "startTime": "01:16:09,280",
          "endTime": "01:16:11,790"
        },
        {
          "index": 1469,
          "text": "But having performances and community gatherings and",
          "startTime": "01:16:11,800",
          "endTime": "01:16:15,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1470,
          "text": "even a farmers market with a law enforcement center where people are",
          "startTime": "01:16:15,470",
          "endTime": "01:16:19,430"
        },
        {
          "index": 1471,
          "text": "having the worst days of their lives, to me, doesn't",
          "startTime": "01:16:19,500",
          "endTime": "01:16:22,889"
        },
        {
          "index": 1472,
          "text": "really",
          "startTime": "01:16:22,940",
          "endTime": "01:16:24,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1473,
          "text": "meet the walkability, economic activity, community",
          "startTime": "01:16:24,800",
          "endTime": "01:16:28,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1474,
          "text": "gathering, land use plans that the civic",
          "startTime": "01:16:28,160",
          "endTime": "01:16:31,760"
        },
        {
          "index": 1475,
          "text": "campus improvements and Madison Avenue Corridor",
          "startTime": "01:16:32,360",
          "endTime": "01:16:35,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1476,
          "text": "ideas we're trying to promote. So I'm not",
          "startTime": "01:16:35,840",
          "endTime": "01:16:39,669"
        },
        {
          "index": 1477,
          "text": "trying to detract this conversation too much from it, which is why I've been",
          "startTime": "01:16:39,700",
          "endTime": "01:16:42,790"
        },
        {
          "index": 1478,
          "text": "waiting to say something, but I want to keep bringing",
          "startTime": "01:16:42,820",
          "endTime": "01:16:46,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1479,
          "text": "that forward.",
          "startTime": "01:16:46,740",
          "endTime": "01:16:47,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1480,
          "text": "Well, I appreciate your-",
          "startTime": "01:16:49,380",
          "endTime": "01:16:50,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1481,
          "text": "You see things from a different kind of lens.",
          "startTime": "01:16:53,240",
          "endTime": "01:16:54,760"
        },
        {
          "index": 1482,
          "text": "I see you see things from",
          "startTime": "01:16:54,780",
          "endTime": "01:16:55,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1483,
          "text": "where we want our police to be. I've",
          "startTime": "01:16:56,940",
          "endTime": "01:17:00,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1484,
          "text": "gone through a couple of chiefs now, and everyone says we want community",
          "startTime": "01:17:00,700",
          "endTime": "01:17:04,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1485,
          "text": "policing.",
          "startTime": "01:17:04,240",
          "endTime": "01:17:04,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1486,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:17:04,870",
          "endTime": "01:17:04,870"
        },
        {
          "index": 1487,
          "text": "We want to be part of the community.",
          "startTime": "01:17:05,100",
          "endTime": "01:17:06,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1488,
          "text": "We want to be interacting with the community, not with the current law",
          "startTime": "01:17:06,700",
          "endTime": "01:17:10,360"
        },
        {
          "index": 1489,
          "text": "enforcement building that's this big stone-",
          "startTime": "01:17:10,400",
          "endTime": "01:17:12,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1490,
          "text": "Big old bunker",
          "startTime": "01:17:13,300",
          "endTime": "01:17:13,900"
        },
        {
          "index": 1491,
          "text": "... imposing structure or bunker.",
          "startTime": "01:17:13,920",
          "endTime": "01:17:16,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1492,
          "text": "And I see this as an opportunity to move towards that",
          "startTime": "01:17:16,540",
          "endTime": "01:17:19,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1493,
          "text": "idea of being part of the community, not being something of intimidation or",
          "startTime": "01:17:21,700",
          "endTime": "01:17:25,310"
        },
        {
          "index": 1494,
          "text": "misery.",
          "startTime": "01:17:25,340",
          "endTime": "01:17:25,760"
        },
        {
          "index": 1495,
          "text": "Public facing.",
          "startTime": "01:17:25,960",
          "endTime": "01:17:26,860"
        },
        {
          "index": 1496,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:17:27,180",
          "endTime": "01:17:28,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 1497,
          "text": "I think it was in social infrastructure book where they set up basketball",
          "startTime": "01:17:28,480",
          "endTime": "01:17:32,240"
        },
        {
          "index": 1498,
          "text": "courts at the back of the police-",
          "startTime": "01:17:32,380",
          "endTime": "01:17:33,919"
        },
        {
          "index": 1499,
          "text": "Mm-hmm",
          "startTime": "01:17:34,720",
          "endTime": "01:17:34,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1500,
          "text": "... station, so there were trying to a more",
          "startTime": "01:17:34,840",
          "endTime": "01:17:38,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1501,
          "text": "interaction. Have it be more like a normal other",
          "startTime": "01:17:38,540",
          "endTime": "01:17:42,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1502,
          "text": "human beings.",
          "startTime": "01:17:42,360",
          "endTime": "01:17:43,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1503,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:17:44,260",
          "endTime": "01:17:44,680"
        },
        {
          "index": 1504,
          "text": "So I agree with you.",
          "startTime": "01:17:46,500",
          "endTime": "01:17:48,220"
        },
        {
          "index": 1505,
          "text": "Normal people at jobs.",
          "startTime": "01:17:48,400",
          "endTime": "01:17:49,340"
        },
        {
          "index": 1506,
          "text": "Yeah. I mean,",
          "startTime": "01:17:49,579",
          "endTime": "01:17:50,420"
        },
        {
          "index": 1507,
          "text": "so yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's also,",
          "startTime": "01:17:51,579",
          "endTime": "01:17:55,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 1508,
          "text": "correct me if I'm wrong, but more the trend is towards that",
          "startTime": "01:17:56,400",
          "endTime": "01:18:00,360"
        },
        {
          "index": 1509,
          "text": "community interactive.",
          "startTime": "01:18:01,700",
          "endTime": "01:18:03,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1510,
          "text": "So it's more relational rather than this barrier between you and the public, is",
          "startTime": "01:18:04,880",
          "endTime": "01:18:08,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1511,
          "text": "that...?",
          "startTime": "01:18:08,880",
          "endTime": "01:18:09,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1512,
          "text": "That's kind of also what I feel like we're trying to go towards as a government,",
          "startTime": "01:18:10,520",
          "endTime": "01:18:14,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1513,
          "text": "as just the City of Corvallis is I walk in",
          "startTime": "01:18:14,360",
          "endTime": "01:18:18,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1514,
          "text": "and people are shocked the mayor's there. They were shocked when I was a counselor.",
          "startTime": "01:18:18,460",
          "endTime": "01:18:21,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1515,
          "text": "It's like, we're normal people. We're part of the community, and we should operate",
          "startTime": "01:18:21,860",
          "endTime": "01:18:25,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1516,
          "text": "as part of the community. And I think-",
          "startTime": "01:18:25,300",
          "endTime": "01:18:27,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 1517,
          "text": "Mm-hmm",
          "startTime": "01:18:27,380",
          "endTime": "01:18:27,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1518,
          "text": "... police-",
          "startTime": "01:18:27,700",
          "endTime": "01:18:28,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1519,
          "text": "Is an extension",
          "startTime": "01:18:29,260",
          "endTime": "01:18:29,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1520,
          "text": "... the city government,",
          "startTime": "01:18:29,920",
          "endTime": "01:18:30,830"
        },
        {
          "index": 1521,
          "text": "our municipal court be part of that.",
          "startTime": "01:18:32,100",
          "endTime": "01:18:33,779"
        },
        {
          "index": 1522,
          "text": "It's all part of the community and we all function together.",
          "startTime": "01:18:34,020",
          "endTime": "01:18:36,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 1523,
          "text": "It's necessary.",
          "startTime": "01:18:36,800",
          "endTime": "01:18:37,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 1524,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:18:38,300",
          "endTime": "01:18:38,589"
        },
        {
          "index": 1525,
          "text": "It's problem-oriented policing is, and community policing",
          "startTime": "01:18:38,800",
          "endTime": "01:18:42,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 1526,
          "text": "is, has",
          "startTime": "01:18:42,680",
          "endTime": "01:18:43,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 1527,
          "text": "far, way ahead. We're way, I think",
          "startTime": "01:18:44,520",
          "endTime": "01:18:48,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1528,
          "text": "our community is way ahead in that respect.",
          "startTime": "01:18:48,560",
          "endTime": "01:18:51,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1529,
          "text": "And we've got the ideas about",
          "startTime": "01:18:51,760",
          "endTime": "01:18:55,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1530,
          "text": "police or a fear of police, that's",
          "startTime": "01:18:55,520",
          "endTime": "01:18:58,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1531,
          "text": "not anything we've ensured, of course, but",
          "startTime": "01:18:59,640",
          "endTime": "01:19:03,570"
        },
        {
          "index": 1532,
          "text": "to have a bunker like that, where's the front door on the-",
          "startTime": "01:19:03,960",
          "endTime": "01:19:06,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1533,
          "text": "Right",
          "startTime": "01:19:06,800",
          "endTime": "01:19:07,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1534,
          "text": "... police station right now? Who knows?",
          "startTime": "01:19:07,160",
          "endTime": "01:19:08,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1535,
          "text": "So that's-",
          "startTime": "01:19:10,600",
          "endTime": "01:19:11,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1536,
          "text": "Let's try to bring us back on the topic today.",
          "startTime": "01:19:11,330",
          "endTime": "01:19:14,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 1537,
          "text": "And that's a good conversation, guys.",
          "startTime": "01:19:14,100",
          "endTime": "01:19:15,660"
        },
        {
          "index": 1538,
          "text": "Sorry.",
          "startTime": "01:19:16,050",
          "endTime": "01:19:16,050"
        },
        {
          "index": 1539,
          "text": "No.",
          "startTime": "01:19:16,060",
          "endTime": "01:19:16,160"
        },
        {
          "index": 1540,
          "text": "I'm looking at the clock, and I want to make sure that we have adequate time to",
          "startTime": "01:19:16,300",
          "endTime": "01:19:19,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 1541,
          "text": "discuss this.",
          "startTime": "01:19:19,560",
          "endTime": "01:19:20,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1542,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:19:20,420",
          "endTime": "01:19:20,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1543,
          "text": "I do want to say, though,",
          "startTime": "01:19:21,200",
          "endTime": "01:19:22,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1544,
          "text": "what we have now is a bunker, and trying to find the front door, I",
          "startTime": "01:19:23,820",
          "endTime": "01:19:26,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 1545,
          "text": "struggled to find it.",
          "startTime": "01:19:27,640",
          "endTime": "01:19:28,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1546,
          "text": "But we",
          "startTime": "01:19:30,260",
          "endTime": "01:19:31,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1547,
          "text": "are pretty privileged people.",
          "startTime": "01:19:33,060",
          "endTime": "01:19:34,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1548,
          "text": "And I understand what Council Bowden is raising is",
          "startTime": "01:19:36,680",
          "endTime": "01:19:40,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1549,
          "text": "not everybody feels as comfortable as we do.",
          "startTime": "01:19:40,540",
          "endTime": "01:19:44,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 1550,
          "text": "And again, I do acknowledge that our police",
          "startTime": "01:19:44,100",
          "endTime": "01:19:47,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1551,
          "text": "do really good work. But the perception out there,",
          "startTime": "01:19:47,920",
          "endTime": "01:19:51,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1552,
          "text": "and the perception is getting worse and worse and",
          "startTime": "01:19:52,040",
          "endTime": "01:19:55,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1553,
          "text": "worse. I do think that that is going to come",
          "startTime": "01:19:55,640",
          "endTime": "01:19:59,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1554,
          "text": "up in that design. Yeah, I think it's a valid point.",
          "startTime": "01:19:59,580",
          "endTime": "01:20:01,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 1555,
          "text": "And it's an absolute legitimate point, which we need to consider,",
          "startTime": "01:20:02,320",
          "endTime": "01:20:06,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 1556,
          "text": "especially considering it's getting worse and worse and worse.",
          "startTime": "01:20:06,080",
          "endTime": "01:20:08,779"
        },
        {
          "index": 1557,
          "text": "So now I feel bad that I cut you off. And we didn't move forward.",
          "startTime": "01:20:08,840",
          "endTime": "01:20:11,900"
        },
        {
          "index": 1558,
          "text": "So if there's anything else that you wanted to point, you wanted to make there,",
          "startTime": "01:20:11,940",
          "endTime": "01:20:15,010"
        },
        {
          "index": 1559,
          "text": "now's the time. Thank you for offering. No. Okay. All right.",
          "startTime": "01:20:15,080",
          "endTime": "01:20:18,960"
        },
        {
          "index": 1560,
          "text": "Then with that,",
          "startTime": "01:20:20,020",
          "endTime": "01:20:20,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1561,
          "text": "you guys have a lot of information.",
          "startTime": "01:20:22,660",
          "endTime": "01:20:24,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 1562,
          "text": "And",
          "startTime": "01:20:26,060",
          "endTime": "01:20:26,360"
        },
        {
          "index": 1563,
          "text": "how do you get to a decision about which",
          "startTime": "01:20:27,200",
          "endTime": "01:20:29,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1564,
          "text": "implementation strategy you want to move forward on?",
          "startTime": "01:20:30,320",
          "endTime": "01:20:32,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1565,
          "text": "The city council has adopted the International Association of Public",
          "startTime": "01:20:34,100",
          "endTime": "01:20:37,100"
        },
        {
          "index": 1566,
          "text": "Participation's planning guide to inform their engagement activities.",
          "startTime": "01:20:37,160",
          "endTime": "01:20:40,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1567,
          "text": "Got the poster there on the wall right there.",
          "startTime": "01:20:40,880",
          "endTime": "01:20:43,240"
        },
        {
          "index": 1568,
          "text": "And within that guide is a sustainable decision framework to help",
          "startTime": "01:20:44,000",
          "endTime": "01:20:47,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1569,
          "text": "organize information and inputs.",
          "startTime": "01:20:47,980",
          "endTime": "01:20:50,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1570,
          "text": "I'm going to quote from the guide now, so I'm going to read from my page.",
          "startTime": "01:20:50,900",
          "endTime": "01:20:54,320"
        },
        {
          "index": 1571,
          "text": "\"The framework is especially helpful as a decision picks up",
          "startTime": "01:20:55,480",
          "endTime": "01:20:59,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1572,
          "text": "a political charge. As this occurs, interest usually",
          "startTime": "01:20:59,380",
          "endTime": "01:21:03,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1573,
          "text": "pulls into one of the four quadrants, yet decision-makers are",
          "startTime": "01:21:03,140",
          "endTime": "01:21:07,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1574,
          "text": "accountable for balanced and lasting decisions that consider the whole",
          "startTime": "01:21:07,100",
          "endTime": "01:21:11,060"
        },
        {
          "index": 1575,
          "text": "community in relation to budget, resources, environment, and",
          "startTime": "01:21:11,140",
          "endTime": "01:21:14,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1576,
          "text": "equity.",
          "startTime": "01:21:14,880",
          "endTime": "01:21:15,230"
        },
        {
          "index": 1577,
          "text": "In this case, the framework provides decision-makers with the means to",
          "startTime": "01:21:16,040",
          "endTime": "01:21:19,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 1578,
          "text": "balance the input they receive to make the best long-term decision for",
          "startTime": "01:21:19,660",
          "endTime": "01:21:23,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1579,
          "text": "the community.\"",
          "startTime": "01:21:23,660",
          "endTime": "01:21:24,230"
        },
        {
          "index": 1580,
          "text": "So the information that you've heard today, and frankly, over the life of the",
          "startTime": "01:21:25,200",
          "endTime": "01:21:28,330"
        },
        {
          "index": 1581,
          "text": "facility investment work, are the data points to consider through",
          "startTime": "01:21:28,360",
          "endTime": "01:21:32,150"
        },
        {
          "index": 1582,
          "text": "these framework lenses.",
          "startTime": "01:21:32,180",
          "endTime": "01:21:34,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1583,
          "text": "We pulled from the facility investment guiding principles that Ian mentioned at the",
          "startTime": "01:21:36,320",
          "endTime": "01:21:40,110"
        },
        {
          "index": 1584,
          "text": "beginning and other policy direction, and we've compiled",
          "startTime": "01:21:40,120",
          "endTime": "01:21:43,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1585,
          "text": "a set of key areas for you to consider within",
          "startTime": "01:21:44,080",
          "endTime": "01:21:48,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1586,
          "text": "each framework component as you work towards a decision.",
          "startTime": "01:21:48,080",
          "endTime": "01:21:51,620"
        },
        {
          "index": 1587,
          "text": "And then remember that for this exercise of the IAP2",
          "startTime": "01:21:52,400",
          "endTime": "01:21:55,560"
        },
        {
          "index": 1588,
          "text": "analysis, you are comparing the options for",
          "startTime": "01:21:55,580",
          "endTime": "01:21:59,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1589,
          "text": "implementation strategies against each other.",
          "startTime": "01:21:59,620",
          "endTime": "01:22:02,040"
        },
        {
          "index": 1590,
          "text": "So we've seen the four strategies, now",
          "startTime": "01:22:02,580",
          "endTime": "01:22:04,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1591,
          "text": "they compare against each other.",
          "startTime": "01:22:05,720",
          "endTime": "01:22:07,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1592,
          "text": "So let's take an example. Under technical is one of the arms.",
          "startTime": "01:22:09,540",
          "endTime": "01:22:13,140"
        },
        {
          "index": 1593,
          "text": "We have construction efficiencies, which you heard a lot about today.",
          "startTime": "01:22:14,020",
          "endTime": "01:22:17,200"
        },
        {
          "index": 1594,
          "text": "So how do four implementation strategies",
          "startTime": "01:22:18,140",
          "endTime": "01:22:21,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1595,
          "text": "compare on the ability to construct efficiently what the",
          "startTime": "01:22:21,560",
          "endTime": "01:22:25,520"
        },
        {
          "index": 1596,
          "text": "council's direction is for the civic campus and police facility at this",
          "startTime": "01:22:25,560",
          "endTime": "01:22:29,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1597,
          "text": "point in time?",
          "startTime": "01:22:29,460",
          "endTime": "01:22:29,980"
        },
        {
          "index": 1598,
          "text": "So you want to consider the construction management, the staging of materials,",
          "startTime": "01:22:30,800",
          "endTime": "01:22:34,300"
        },
        {
          "index": 1599,
          "text": "staff collaboration opportunities, that parking garage design,",
          "startTime": "01:22:34,740",
          "endTime": "01:22:38,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1600,
          "text": "and renovation of leased space to meet our service delivery",
          "startTime": "01:22:38,920",
          "endTime": "01:22:42,870"
        },
        {
          "index": 1601,
          "text": "needs, and as we mentioned, especially important for police operations.",
          "startTime": "01:22:42,870",
          "endTime": "01:22:46,030"
        },
        {
          "index": 1602,
          "text": "The facility investment guiding principles call for functional spaces",
          "startTime": "01:22:47,820",
          "endTime": "01:22:51,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1603,
          "text": "that are accessible, inclusive, and accommodate growth.",
          "startTime": "01:22:51,840",
          "endTime": "01:22:54,700"
        },
        {
          "index": 1604,
          "text": "So how do the four options in your mind compare on achieving",
          "startTime": "01:22:55,560",
          "endTime": "01:22:59,400"
        },
        {
          "index": 1605,
          "text": "these objectives?",
          "startTime": "01:22:59,440",
          "endTime": "01:23:00,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1606,
          "text": "Moving to environment.",
          "startTime": "01:23:02,400",
          "endTime": "01:23:03,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1607,
          "text": "A topic we've discussed in the past, and it came up again- This one ...",
          "startTime": "01:23:05,280",
          "endTime": "01:23:08,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 1608,
          "text": "is the subpar resiliency of City Hall and the LED, law",
          "startTime": "01:23:08,620",
          "endTime": "01:23:12,150"
        },
        {
          "index": 1609,
          "text": "enforcement.",
          "startTime": "01:23:12,150",
          "endTime": "01:23:12,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1610,
          "text": "The new buildings under consideration will have more robust",
          "startTime": "01:23:14,110",
          "endTime": "01:23:17,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1611,
          "text": "resiliency than the current structures do.",
          "startTime": "01:23:17,960",
          "endTime": "01:23:20,480"
        },
        {
          "index": 1612,
          "text": "So which implementation strategy or strategies meet the resiliency",
          "startTime": "01:23:20,540",
          "endTime": "01:23:24,380"
        },
        {
          "index": 1613,
          "text": "concern that's been brought forward?",
          "startTime": "01:23:24,440",
          "endTime": "01:23:25,820"
        },
        {
          "index": 1614,
          "text": "The Climate Action Plan, which is one of our guiding documents,",
          "startTime": "01:23:27,360",
          "endTime": "01:23:30,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1615,
          "text": "in terms of policy direction,",
          "startTime": "01:23:31,100",
          "endTime": "01:23:32,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 1616,
          "text": "it calls for actions that will achieve other co-benefits in",
          "startTime": "01:23:33,960",
          "endTime": "01:23:37,920"
        },
        {
          "index": 1617,
          "text": "addition to greenhouse gas reductions, some of which are seen on",
          "startTime": "01:23:37,980",
          "endTime": "01:23:41,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1618,
          "text": "the list here.",
          "startTime": "01:23:42,140",
          "endTime": "01:23:42,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1619,
          "text": "And then speaking of the big reveal on energy",
          "startTime": "01:23:44,540",
          "endTime": "01:23:47,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1620,
          "text": "efficiency- Sorry ... I'm going to kick it over to Mark because I'm pouting that",
          "startTime": "01:23:48,000",
          "endTime": "01:23:51,670"
        },
        {
          "index": 1621,
          "text": "you took my glory away. Are you ready for me to go to the next",
          "startTime": "01:23:51,680",
          "endTime": "01:23:55,440"
        },
        {
          "index": 1622,
          "text": "slide? Just a moment. Yeah. We've talked a lot about City",
          "startTime": "01:23:55,460",
          "endTime": "01:23:59,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1623,
          "text": "Hall, the space heaters, and leaky windows",
          "startTime": "01:23:59,360",
          "endTime": "01:24:03,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1624,
          "text": "and all that sort of thing. And I really want to credit Scott",
          "startTime": "01:24:03,320",
          "endTime": "01:24:07,020"
        },
        {
          "index": 1625,
          "text": "Dipod, our sustainability coordinator, and Abby Alexander, our innovation",
          "startTime": "01:24:07,060",
          "endTime": "01:24:10,880"
        },
        {
          "index": 1626,
          "text": "manager. We actually have been able to dig some data, go through",
          "startTime": "01:24:10,920",
          "endTime": "01:24:14,900"
        },
        {
          "index": 1627,
          "text": "the data, and look at what is our energy usage at the",
          "startTime": "01:24:14,940",
          "endTime": "01:24:18,740"
        },
        {
          "index": 1628,
          "text": "City Hall building and compare that",
          "startTime": "01:24:18,800",
          "endTime": "01:24:21,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1629,
          "text": "to some other facilities. So go ahead, Mary.",
          "startTime": "01:24:22,420",
          "endTime": "01:24:24,580"
        },
        {
          "index": 1630,
          "text": "So here is a comparison of energy",
          "startTime": "01:24:26,180",
          "endTime": "01:24:29,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1631,
          "text": "usage between the Kalapuya building on the left, that is the Benton",
          "startTime": "01:24:29,920",
          "endTime": "01:24:33,320"
        },
        {
          "index": 1632,
          "text": "County's",
          "startTime": "01:24:33,420",
          "endTime": "01:24:33,940"
        },
        {
          "index": 1633,
          "text": "newly remodeled",
          "startTime": "01:24:34,820",
          "endTime": "01:24:35,720"
        },
        {
          "index": 1634,
          "text": "facility out in Southwest Corvallis.",
          "startTime": "01:24:36,620",
          "endTime": "01:24:38,800"
        },
        {
          "index": 1635,
          "text": "You have the law enforcement building and City Hall, and you can",
          "startTime": "01:24:40,060",
          "endTime": "01:24:43,900"
        },
        {
          "index": 1636,
          "text": "see how much more energy City",
          "startTime": "01:24:44,000",
          "endTime": "01:24:47,460"
        },
        {
          "index": 1637,
          "text": "Hall uses. That's on an annual basis, and you can see",
          "startTime": "01:24:47,560",
          "endTime": "01:24:51,080"
        },
        {
          "index": 1638,
          "text": "the energy we're using at these different facilities.",
          "startTime": "01:24:52,180",
          "endTime": "01:24:54,540"
        },
        {
          "index": 1639,
          "text": "Purchased electricity, solar, and in the",
          "startTime": "01:24:54,720",
          "endTime": "01:24:58,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1640,
          "text": "magenta is natural gas.",
          "startTime": "01:24:58,340",
          "endTime": "01:25:00,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 1641,
          "text": "So significantly more energy we're using on an annual basis at City",
          "startTime": "01:25:01,560",
          "endTime": "01:25:05,260"
        },
        {
          "index": 1642,
          "text": "Hall.",
          "startTime": "01:25:05,340",
          "endTime": "01:25:05,640"
        },
        {
          "index": 1643,
          "text": "What's the square footage of each of those? Geographic segment.",
          "startTime": "01:25:06,500",
          "endTime": "01:25:10,319"
        },
        {
          "index": 1644,
          "text": "When you talk about square footage, it becomes even more dramatic.",
          "startTime": "01:25:11,480",
          "endTime": "01:25:15,120"
        },
        {
          "index": 1645,
          "text": "So per square foot, the Kalapuya building- Per square foot ...",
          "startTime": "01:25:17,620",
          "endTime": "01:25:20,780"
        },
        {
          "index": 1646,
          "text": "33.7.",
          "startTime": "01:25:20,980",
          "endTime": "01:25:22,600"
        },
        {
          "index": 1647,
          "text": "City Hall is 10X per square foot",
          "startTime": "01:25:23,520",
          "endTime": "01:25:27,280"
        },
        {
          "index": 1648,
          "text": "because the Kalapuya building is 2.7 times",
          "startTime": "01:25:27,320",
          "endTime": "01:25:31,000"
        },
        {
          "index": 1649,
          "text": "larger than City Hall. Right.",
          "startTime": "01:25:31,200",
          "endTime": "01:25:33,840"
        },
        {
          "index": 1650,
          "text": "So essentially, the power we use for just the City Hall",
          "startTime": "01:25:34,840",
          "endTime": "01:25:38,500"
        },
        {
          "index": 1651,
          "text": "building would power the county's Kalapuya",
          "startTime": "01:25:38,560",
          "endTime": "01:25:42,180"
        },
        {
          "index": 1652,
          "text": "building for 10 years.So that's",
          "startTime": "01:25:42,260",
          "endTime": "01:25:46,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 1653,
          "text": "something you can see a pretty dramatic impact we're having",
          "startTime": "01:25:46,224",
          "endTime": "01:25:49,924"
        },
        {
          "index": 1654,
          "text": "on an ongoing basis.",
          "startTime": "01:25:50,644",
          "endTime": "01:25:52,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 1655,
          "text": "It's those tall ceilings, drafty windows.",
          "startTime": "01:25:52,444",
          "endTime": "01:25:54,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 1656,
          "text": "Right. Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:25:54,584",
          "endTime": "01:25:55,164"
        },
        {
          "index": 1657,
          "text": "If I can just make a quick comment.",
          "startTime": "01:25:55,944",
          "endTime": "01:25:57,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 1658,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "01:25:58,324",
          "endTime": "01:25:59,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 1659,
          "text": "This statistic is a standard energy use",
          "startTime": "01:25:59,784",
          "endTime": "01:26:02,664"
        },
        {
          "index": 1660,
          "text": "index, and it's a standard metric for building efficiency.",
          "startTime": "01:26:03,724",
          "endTime": "01:26:06,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 1661,
          "text": "And one can look up",
          "startTime": "01:26:07,144",
          "endTime": "01:26:08,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 1662,
          "text": "typical types of buildings, and they'll tell you here's about the range of what",
          "startTime": "01:26:09,304",
          "endTime": "01:26:12,663"
        },
        {
          "index": 1663,
          "text": "it should be. When people talk about a net zero energy building,",
          "startTime": "01:26:13,124",
          "endTime": "01:26:16,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1664,
          "text": "that EUI index is zero.",
          "startTime": "01:26:17,184",
          "endTime": "01:26:19,144"
        },
        {
          "index": 1665,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:26:19,464",
          "endTime": "01:26:19,944"
        },
        {
          "index": 1666,
          "text": "As architects, we've done a couple of net zero buildings,",
          "startTime": "01:26:21,824",
          "endTime": "01:26:24,984"
        },
        {
          "index": 1667,
          "text": "others in our sphere of work too.",
          "startTime": "01:26:25,564",
          "endTime": "01:26:28,804"
        },
        {
          "index": 1668,
          "text": "Okay. I'm going to go back to the IAP2 sustainable decision",
          "startTime": "01:26:31,224",
          "endTime": "01:26:34,944"
        },
        {
          "index": 1669,
          "text": "framework. Now we're talking about the economic piece.",
          "startTime": "01:26:35,024",
          "endTime": "01:26:38,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 1670,
          "text": "Obviously, a major component of the economic lens is the positive",
          "startTime": "01:26:39,324",
          "endTime": "01:26:43,064"
        },
        {
          "index": 1671,
          "text": "construction, but it's not the only data point.",
          "startTime": "01:26:43,084",
          "endTime": "01:26:45,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 1672,
          "text": "Another consideration is overall financial stewardship.",
          "startTime": "01:26:46,284",
          "endTime": "01:26:49,444"
        },
        {
          "index": 1673,
          "text": "As we've heard today, any of the strategies will require staff to",
          "startTime": "01:26:50,364",
          "endTime": "01:26:53,964"
        },
        {
          "index": 1674,
          "text": "relocate to a leased facility.",
          "startTime": "01:26:54,004",
          "endTime": "01:26:55,884"
        },
        {
          "index": 1675,
          "text": "This means annual lease payments",
          "startTime": "01:26:56,744",
          "endTime": "01:26:58,624"
        },
        {
          "index": 1676,
          "text": "added to the cost to renovate the space to meet the service delivery needs, either",
          "startTime": "01:26:59,464",
          "endTime": "01:27:03,004"
        },
        {
          "index": 1677,
          "text": "from civic campus staff, police staff, or both.",
          "startTime": "01:27:03,044",
          "endTime": "01:27:05,304"
        },
        {
          "index": 1678,
          "text": "So this is an investment of city resources without a resulting tangible",
          "startTime": "01:27:06,304",
          "endTime": "01:27:10,264"
        },
        {
          "index": 1679,
          "text": "asset. There's no building at the end that the city owns, but we're putting",
          "startTime": "01:27:10,364",
          "endTime": "01:27:13,784"
        },
        {
          "index": 1680,
          "text": "potentially millions of dollars into that, a year into that",
          "startTime": "01:27:15,044",
          "endTime": "01:27:18,964"
        },
        {
          "index": 1681,
          "text": "leased facility.",
          "startTime": "01:27:19,244",
          "endTime": "01:27:20,004"
        },
        {
          "index": 1682,
          "text": "So you want to consider how does each strategy support or doesn't",
          "startTime": "01:27:20,824",
          "endTime": "01:27:24,584"
        },
        {
          "index": 1683,
          "text": "support financial stewardship, along with recruiting and",
          "startTime": "01:27:24,624",
          "endTime": "01:27:28,403"
        },
        {
          "index": 1684,
          "text": "retention, which Mark mentioned at the beginning.",
          "startTime": "01:27:28,524",
          "endTime": "01:27:31,104"
        },
        {
          "index": 1685,
          "text": "And then final arm under this discussion is community benefit.",
          "startTime": "01:27:33,764",
          "endTime": "01:27:37,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 1686,
          "text": "Again, as I mentioned, these topics, especially ones on this page,",
          "startTime": "01:27:38,504",
          "endTime": "01:27:42,044"
        },
        {
          "index": 1687,
          "text": "are objectives of the facility investment guiding principles and",
          "startTime": "01:27:42,444",
          "endTime": "01:27:46,244"
        },
        {
          "index": 1688,
          "text": "other city policy documents.",
          "startTime": "01:27:46,384",
          "endTime": "01:27:48,164"
        },
        {
          "index": 1689,
          "text": "They also happen to align with the goals that are coming out of the Downtown",
          "startTime": "01:27:49,104",
          "endTime": "01:27:53,044"
        },
        {
          "index": 1690,
          "text": "Vitality Strategy Task Force work.",
          "startTime": "01:27:53,184",
          "endTime": "01:27:55,423"
        },
        {
          "index": 1691,
          "text": "So as you think about the different strategies for",
          "startTime": "01:27:56,544",
          "endTime": "01:28:00,004"
        },
        {
          "index": 1692,
          "text": "implementation,",
          "startTime": "01:28:00,044",
          "endTime": "01:28:00,904"
        },
        {
          "index": 1693,
          "text": "how do they further these objectives in support of what the community",
          "startTime": "01:28:01,924",
          "endTime": "01:28:05,524"
        },
        {
          "index": 1694,
          "text": "has",
          "startTime": "01:28:05,604",
          "endTime": "01:28:06,104"
        },
        {
          "index": 1695,
          "text": "over the years and continues to say that it values?",
          "startTime": "01:28:07,304",
          "endTime": "01:28:10,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1696,
          "text": "Okay, so we have the four",
          "startTime": "01:28:13,284",
          "endTime": "01:28:14,644"
        },
        {
          "index": 1697,
          "text": "arms. We have topics that we would want to consider.",
          "startTime": "01:28:15,824",
          "endTime": "01:28:18,644"
        },
        {
          "index": 1698,
          "text": "We look at the near-term results of the various implementation",
          "startTime": "01:28:20,204",
          "endTime": "01:28:23,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 1699,
          "text": "strategies through these framework lenses,",
          "startTime": "01:28:23,764",
          "endTime": "01:28:25,864"
        },
        {
          "index": 1700,
          "text": "and these are the results that we came up with.",
          "startTime": "01:28:26,864",
          "endTime": "01:28:28,564"
        },
        {
          "index": 1701,
          "text": "So in comparing strategies against each other,",
          "startTime": "01:28:29,764",
          "endTime": "01:28:32,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1702,
          "text": "strategy one has the best outcomes for achieving the",
          "startTime": "01:28:33,784",
          "endTime": "01:28:37,764"
        },
        {
          "index": 1703,
          "text": "objectives in each of the components of the",
          "startTime": "01:28:37,804",
          "endTime": "01:28:41,444"
        },
        {
          "index": 1704,
          "text": "framework, and those objectives, again, coming from policy documents and the",
          "startTime": "01:28:41,524",
          "endTime": "01:28:45,164"
        },
        {
          "index": 1705,
          "text": "guiding principles.",
          "startTime": "01:28:45,204",
          "endTime": "01:28:45,934"
        },
        {
          "index": 1706,
          "text": "In the middle two, within the strategies to build one facility now and the other",
          "startTime": "01:28:47,464",
          "endTime": "01:28:51,384"
        },
        {
          "index": 1707,
          "text": "later, strategy two, building the police department first,",
          "startTime": "01:28:51,424",
          "endTime": "01:28:55,184"
        },
        {
          "index": 1708,
          "text": "ranks better than strategy three on environmental,",
          "startTime": "01:28:55,924",
          "endTime": "01:28:59,464"
        },
        {
          "index": 1709,
          "text": "primarily because of those resiliency gains you get from a robust",
          "startTime": "01:28:59,924",
          "endTime": "01:29:03,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1710,
          "text": "911 and just the police department building in general, so",
          "startTime": "01:29:03,704",
          "endTime": "01:29:07,484"
        },
        {
          "index": 1711,
          "text": "police can continue to operate, provide public services in an",
          "startTime": "01:29:07,564",
          "endTime": "01:29:11,454"
        },
        {
          "index": 1712,
          "text": "emergency.",
          "startTime": "01:29:11,464",
          "endTime": "01:29:12,084"
        },
        {
          "index": 1713,
          "text": "It, however, ranks lower on economic.",
          "startTime": "01:29:13,684",
          "endTime": "01:29:15,764"
        },
        {
          "index": 1714,
          "text": "One is because that building just costs more than Civic Campus.",
          "startTime": "01:29:16,744",
          "endTime": "01:29:20,264"
        },
        {
          "index": 1715,
          "text": "So even in the near term, that building costs more.",
          "startTime": "01:29:20,304",
          "endTime": "01:29:23,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 1716,
          "text": "But also, you have that long-term lease required for the Civic Campus",
          "startTime": "01:29:23,584",
          "endTime": "01:29:27,084"
        },
        {
          "index": 1717,
          "text": "options that aren't included in the dollar amounts, but we know is an",
          "startTime": "01:29:27,244",
          "endTime": "01:29:31,084"
        },
        {
          "index": 1718,
          "text": "ongoing cost to the city on an annual basis.",
          "startTime": "01:29:31,124",
          "endTime": "01:29:33,764"
        },
        {
          "index": 1719,
          "text": "Strategy three, the third one from the left, to build the Civic Campus",
          "startTime": "01:29:35,564",
          "endTime": "01:29:39,224"
        },
        {
          "index": 1720,
          "text": "first, ranks slightly better on the community benefit than strategy",
          "startTime": "01:29:39,324",
          "endTime": "01:29:43,144"
        },
        {
          "index": 1721,
          "text": "two because of these public gathering spaces that are incorporated in the building",
          "startTime": "01:29:43,184",
          "endTime": "01:29:47,104"
        },
        {
          "index": 1722,
          "text": "design and the plus.",
          "startTime": "01:29:47,164",
          "endTime": "01:29:48,464"
        },
        {
          "index": 1723,
          "text": "And strategy four,",
          "startTime": "01:29:50,084",
          "endTime": "01:29:51,414"
        },
        {
          "index": 1724,
          "text": "which is the abandoned downtown near term,",
          "startTime": "01:29:52,644",
          "endTime": "01:29:55,304"
        },
        {
          "index": 1725,
          "text": "does have some benefit on a technical",
          "startTime": "01:29:56,384",
          "endTime": "01:29:59,924"
        },
        {
          "index": 1726,
          "text": "perspective. Theoretically, all of your staff is located in the same",
          "startTime": "01:29:59,944",
          "endTime": "01:30:03,884"
        },
        {
          "index": 1727,
          "text": "leased facility, so those staff collaboration advantages",
          "startTime": "01:30:03,944",
          "endTime": "01:30:07,904"
        },
        {
          "index": 1728,
          "text": "are achieved in this",
          "startTime": "01:30:08,004",
          "endTime": "01:30:09,864"
        },
        {
          "index": 1729,
          "text": "option. And then for environmental, well, I think Mark's",
          "startTime": "01:30:10,984",
          "endTime": "01:30:14,744"
        },
        {
          "index": 1730,
          "text": "graphics spoke for themselves. We're no longer occupying and",
          "startTime": "01:30:14,784",
          "endTime": "01:30:18,214"
        },
        {
          "index": 1731,
          "text": "fueling two buildings that have such poor-- Again, with the",
          "startTime": "01:30:18,244",
          "endTime": "01:30:21,964"
        },
        {
          "index": 1732,
          "text": "assumption and the hope that the leased facility that we find would",
          "startTime": "01:30:22,024",
          "endTime": "01:30:25,394"
        },
        {
          "index": 1733,
          "text": "be a tighter envelope and a better performer on those",
          "startTime": "01:30:25,444",
          "endTime": "01:30:29,394"
        },
        {
          "index": 1734,
          "text": "greenhouse gas kind of goals.",
          "startTime": "01:30:29,404",
          "endTime": "01:30:31,384"
        },
        {
          "index": 1735,
          "text": "And then so that concludes the second part of",
          "startTime": "01:30:35,964",
          "endTime": "01:30:39,264"
        },
        {
          "index": 1736,
          "text": "our conversation. So let me just go back to this slide and ask if there's any",
          "startTime": "01:30:39,344",
          "endTime": "01:30:43,193"
        },
        {
          "index": 1737,
          "text": "questions on the IAP2 analysis.",
          "startTime": "01:30:43,264",
          "endTime": "01:30:46,144"
        },
        {
          "index": 1738,
          "text": "Could you repeat what the community benefit, the",
          "startTime": "01:30:46,544",
          "endTime": "01:30:50,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1739,
          "text": "fourth item on community benefit?",
          "startTime": "01:30:50,584",
          "endTime": "01:30:52,444"
        },
        {
          "index": 1740,
          "text": "First was welcoming and very inclusive.",
          "startTime": "01:30:53,004",
          "endTime": "01:30:55,074"
        },
        {
          "index": 1741,
          "text": "Second was community vision and",
          "startTime": "01:30:55,144",
          "endTime": "01:30:57,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 1742,
          "text": "organization. Third, equal spaces for community.",
          "startTime": "01:30:57,804",
          "endTime": "01:31:01,504"
        },
        {
          "index": 1743,
          "text": "What was the fourth? Downtown-",
          "startTime": "01:31:01,544",
          "endTime": "01:31:02,844"
        },
        {
          "index": 1744,
          "text": "Downtown vitality and a resilient Iowa.",
          "startTime": "01:31:03,024",
          "endTime": "01:31:05,404"
        },
        {
          "index": 1745,
          "text": "Thanks.",
          "startTime": "01:31:05,464",
          "endTime": "01:31:05,824"
        },
        {
          "index": 1746,
          "text": "And again, you will have this information.",
          "startTime": "01:31:07,924",
          "endTime": "01:31:09,764"
        },
        {
          "index": 1747,
          "text": "Yeah, I",
          "startTime": "01:31:10,464",
          "endTime": "01:31:10,784"
        },
        {
          "index": 1748,
          "text": "need to put it down.",
          "startTime": "01:31:11,804",
          "endTime": "01:31:12,524"
        },
        {
          "index": 1749,
          "text": "Thank you.",
          "startTime": "01:31:14,904",
          "endTime": "01:31:15,344"
        },
        {
          "index": 1750,
          "text": "Thanks.",
          "startTime": "01:31:16,244",
          "endTime": "01:31:16,544"
        },
        {
          "index": 1751,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "01:31:16,924",
          "endTime": "01:31:17,124"
        },
        {
          "index": 1752,
          "text": "Okay.",
          "startTime": "01:31:18,164",
          "endTime": "01:31:18,464"
        },
        {
          "index": 1753,
          "text": "Oh, good.",
          "startTime": "01:31:19,704",
          "endTime": "01:31:20,204"
        },
        {
          "index": 1754,
          "text": "So a lot of information.",
          "startTime": "01:31:21,084",
          "endTime": "01:31:23,024"
        },
        {
          "index": 1755,
          "text": "Big dollars, so maybe you're happy you're not making a decision today.",
          "startTime": "01:31:23,984",
          "endTime": "01:31:26,744"
        },
        {
          "index": 1756,
          "text": "So then the next steps for us is to come back",
          "startTime": "01:31:28,684",
          "endTime": "01:31:31,724"
        },
        {
          "index": 1757,
          "text": "at your work session on May 7th, where",
          "startTime": "01:31:32,664",
          "endTime": "01:31:34,374"
        },
        {
          "index": 1758,
          "text": "we will have done some work investigating the revenue",
          "startTime": "01:31:35,444",
          "endTime": "01:31:39,164"
        },
        {
          "index": 1759,
          "text": "sources that you asked us to investigate regarding facilities and",
          "startTime": "01:31:39,224",
          "endTime": "01:31:42,684"
        },
        {
          "index": 1760,
          "text": "operating costs. So we'll be back at a work session there,",
          "startTime": "01:31:42,844",
          "endTime": "01:31:46,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1761,
          "text": "and then in June and maybe bleeding over into",
          "startTime": "01:31:47,048",
          "endTime": "01:31:50,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1762,
          "text": "early July, we'll start moving towards a",
          "startTime": "01:31:51,008",
          "endTime": "01:31:54,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1763,
          "text": "decision on the revenue side and facility side.",
          "startTime": "01:31:54,688",
          "endTime": "01:31:57,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1764,
          "text": "That's what we envision moving forward.",
          "startTime": "01:31:57,948",
          "endTime": "01:31:59,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1765,
          "text": "And these are-- They're difficult",
          "startTime": "01:32:00,008",
          "endTime": "01:32:03,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 1766,
          "text": "challenges to address. And I think that's why,",
          "startTime": "01:32:03,148",
          "endTime": "01:32:06,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 1767,
          "text": "again, I bring my props. We've come here many times",
          "startTime": "01:32:07,028",
          "endTime": "01:32:10,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1768,
          "text": "before,",
          "startTime": "01:32:10,708",
          "endTime": "01:32:11,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1769,
          "text": "and people have just stepped away because they're challenging",
          "startTime": "01:32:11,988",
          "endTime": "01:32:15,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1770,
          "text": "things.",
          "startTime": "01:32:15,848",
          "endTime": "01:32:16,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1771,
          "text": "But I believe it's our responsibility to act",
          "startTime": "01:32:18,048",
          "endTime": "01:32:21,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1772,
          "text": "responsible,",
          "startTime": "01:32:21,908",
          "endTime": "01:32:22,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1773,
          "text": "to",
          "startTime": "01:32:24,108",
          "endTime": "01:32:24,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1774,
          "text": "be good stewards of the organization that serves our community, and good",
          "startTime": "01:32:25,468",
          "endTime": "01:32:29,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1775,
          "text": "stewards of",
          "startTime": "01:32:29,368",
          "endTime": "01:32:30,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1776,
          "text": "the resources from our community.",
          "startTime": "01:32:31,608",
          "endTime": "01:32:33,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1777,
          "text": "So with that, other general questions, or I'll turn it over to the",
          "startTime": "01:32:33,968",
          "endTime": "01:32:37,818"
        },
        {
          "index": 1778,
          "text": "manager.",
          "startTime": "01:32:37,868",
          "endTime": "01:32:38,467"
        },
        {
          "index": 1779,
          "text": "Any other questions?",
          "startTime": "01:32:39,468",
          "endTime": "01:32:40,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1780,
          "text": "No.",
          "startTime": "01:32:42,988",
          "endTime": "01:32:43,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1781,
          "text": "Well,",
          "startTime": "01:32:43,018",
          "endTime": "01:32:43,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 1782,
          "text": "I was going to say, for me, just based on what I see, it's like to me, the",
          "startTime": "01:32:45,308",
          "endTime": "01:32:47,978"
        },
        {
          "index": 1783,
          "text": "decision's clear.",
          "startTime": "01:32:48,028",
          "endTime": "01:32:48,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1784,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:32:49,268",
          "endTime": "01:32:49,278"
        },
        {
          "index": 1785,
          "text": "But that's just me from a very data kind of",
          "startTime": "01:32:49,448",
          "endTime": "01:32:52,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1786,
          "text": "mindset. So I look forward to our next conversation,",
          "startTime": "01:32:52,288",
          "endTime": "01:32:55,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1787,
          "text": "and I appreciate the presentation and",
          "startTime": "01:32:56,948",
          "endTime": "01:32:59,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1788,
          "text": "the information.",
          "startTime": "01:33:00,028",
          "endTime": "01:33:00,928"
        },
        {
          "index": 1789,
          "text": "John?",
          "startTime": "01:33:02,348",
          "endTime": "01:33:02,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1790,
          "text": "Yeah, I think",
          "startTime": "01:33:03,068",
          "endTime": "01:33:03,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1791,
          "text": "what's particularly striking",
          "startTime": "01:33:05,488",
          "endTime": "01:33:06,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1792,
          "text": "is the-- Well, for me, the decision, the direction seems pretty clear as",
          "startTime": "01:33:08,908",
          "endTime": "01:33:12,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1793,
          "text": "well for a number of",
          "startTime": "01:33:12,748",
          "endTime": "01:33:13,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1794,
          "text": "reasons. One is,",
          "startTime": "01:33:14,608",
          "endTime": "01:33:15,698"
        },
        {
          "index": 1795,
          "text": "in terms of total cost,",
          "startTime": "01:33:17,168",
          "endTime": "01:33:18,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1796,
          "text": "it's going to be the cheapest solution, the best, the most cost-effective",
          "startTime": "01:33:19,128",
          "endTime": "01:33:22,738"
        },
        {
          "index": 1797,
          "text": "solution.",
          "startTime": "01:33:22,828",
          "endTime": "01:33:23,347"
        },
        {
          "index": 1798,
          "text": "I think it does dovetail nicely with what's coming out of the Downtown",
          "startTime": "01:33:24,728",
          "endTime": "01:33:28,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1799,
          "text": "Vitality Strategy Task Force.",
          "startTime": "01:33:28,348",
          "endTime": "01:33:30,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1800,
          "text": "I think it particularly demonstrates our commitment to downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:33:31,848",
          "endTime": "01:33:35,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1801,
          "text": "And I think that",
          "startTime": "01:33:37,948",
          "endTime": "01:33:38,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1802,
          "text": "to dive a little further into the cost side of things,",
          "startTime": "01:33:39,868",
          "endTime": "01:33:42,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1803,
          "text": "I think what's particularly striking, again, I'll make the comment again.",
          "startTime": "01:33:43,628",
          "endTime": "01:33:47,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1804,
          "text": "I think",
          "startTime": "01:33:48,048",
          "endTime": "01:33:48,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1805,
          "text": "we're used to living from this month to the next month or this year to the",
          "startTime": "01:33:49,648",
          "endTime": "01:33:53,627"
        },
        {
          "index": 1806,
          "text": "next year. I think for a lot of folks thinking that, well, we'll just",
          "startTime": "01:33:53,688",
          "endTime": "01:33:57,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1807,
          "text": "delay it, seems like, well, it's a no-brainer.",
          "startTime": "01:33:57,688",
          "endTime": "01:34:00,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1808,
          "text": "That seems like a reasonable thing to do.",
          "startTime": "01:34:01,108",
          "endTime": "01:34:03,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1809,
          "text": "Yet the fact that construction costs going up on average",
          "startTime": "01:34:04,208",
          "endTime": "01:34:07,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1810,
          "text": "6% per year, it doesn't take very many years before",
          "startTime": "01:34:08,528",
          "endTime": "01:34:12,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1811,
          "text": "that becomes a",
          "startTime": "01:34:12,428",
          "endTime": "01:34:13,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 1812,
          "text": "hurdle to overcome that we could have overcome many, many decades ago.",
          "startTime": "01:34:15,928",
          "endTime": "01:34:19,547"
        },
        {
          "index": 1813,
          "text": "So I think that strikes me as well",
          "startTime": "01:34:20,768",
          "endTime": "01:34:22,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 1814,
          "text": "as",
          "startTime": "01:34:24,548",
          "endTime": "01:34:25,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1815,
          "text": "a real takeaway from this.",
          "startTime": "01:34:27,288",
          "endTime": "01:34:30,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 1816,
          "text": "I do think that I will,",
          "startTime": "01:34:31,068",
          "endTime": "01:34:33,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1817,
          "text": "I think in the interest of completeness, I do want to",
          "startTime": "01:34:34,148",
          "endTime": "01:34:37,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1818,
          "text": "highlight something that Jim said,",
          "startTime": "01:34:37,808",
          "endTime": "01:34:39,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1819,
          "text": "which is, there is that not very",
          "startTime": "01:34:40,388",
          "endTime": "01:34:43,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 1820,
          "text": "desirable fifth option out there, which is to literally abandon",
          "startTime": "01:34:43,928",
          "endTime": "01:34:47,848"
        },
        {
          "index": 1821,
          "text": "downtown,",
          "startTime": "01:34:47,868",
          "endTime": "01:34:48,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1822,
          "text": "and I don't think anybody's wanting that to happen.",
          "startTime": "01:34:49,448",
          "endTime": "01:34:52,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 1823,
          "text": "But if the answer is",
          "startTime": "01:34:53,368",
          "endTime": "01:34:55,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 1824,
          "text": "let's",
          "startTime": "01:34:56,408",
          "endTime": "01:34:56,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1825,
          "text": "find absolute cheapest",
          "startTime": "01:34:57,868",
          "endTime": "01:35:00,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1826,
          "text": "solution, we can relocate",
          "startTime": "01:35:00,848",
          "endTime": "01:35:04,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1827,
          "text": "completely out of downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:35:05,548",
          "endTime": "01:35:06,988"
        },
        {
          "index": 1828,
          "text": "I've said this before. I'm",
          "startTime": "01:35:07,828",
          "endTime": "01:35:09,558"
        },
        {
          "index": 1829,
          "text": "not as supportive of it, so I'll say it, but I'm not supportive of it.",
          "startTime": "01:35:10,548",
          "endTime": "01:35:13,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1830,
          "text": "We can certainly buy a building off the HP campus, and then we can",
          "startTime": "01:35:14,268",
          "endTime": "01:35:17,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1831,
          "text": "retrofit it, and good luck to the response time to Southtown for the",
          "startTime": "01:35:17,748",
          "endTime": "01:35:21,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1832,
          "text": "police",
          "startTime": "01:35:22,288",
          "endTime": "01:35:22,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1833,
          "text": "response",
          "startTime": "01:35:23,988",
          "endTime": "01:35:24,608"
        },
        {
          "index": 1834,
          "text": "there. And downtown vitality will take an enormous hit.",
          "startTime": "01:35:25,608",
          "endTime": "01:35:29,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1835,
          "text": "This is I don't think this is what we want for our downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:35:29,588",
          "endTime": "01:35:32,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1836,
          "text": "So there are cheaper, quote unquote, \"cheaper solutions\"-",
          "startTime": "01:35:33,128",
          "endTime": "01:35:35,857"
        },
        {
          "index": 1837,
          "text": "Cheaper",
          "startTime": "01:35:36,008",
          "endTime": "01:35:36,197"
        },
        {
          "index": 1838,
          "text": "... in that we don't have to address this issue in the short term,",
          "startTime": "01:35:36,508",
          "endTime": "01:35:40,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1839,
          "text": "but more expensive in the long term because the impact will be felt for",
          "startTime": "01:35:40,668",
          "endTime": "01:35:44,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1840,
          "text": "generations.",
          "startTime": "01:35:44,828",
          "endTime": "01:35:45,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1841,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:35:45,648",
          "endTime": "01:35:45,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1842,
          "text": "So",
          "startTime": "01:35:46,528",
          "endTime": "01:35:46,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1843,
          "text": "it's important for people to understand that",
          "startTime": "01:35:47,948",
          "endTime": "01:35:51,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1844,
          "text": "not only do we have",
          "startTime": "01:35:51,908",
          "endTime": "01:35:53,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1845,
          "text": "the opportunity",
          "startTime": "01:35:54,888",
          "endTime": "01:35:55,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1846,
          "text": "to put a stake in the ground for the future that will last",
          "startTime": "01:35:57,148",
          "endTime": "01:36:00,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1847,
          "text": "generations,",
          "startTime": "01:36:00,848",
          "endTime": "01:36:01,578"
        },
        {
          "index": 1848,
          "text": "we also run the risk",
          "startTime": "01:36:02,808",
          "endTime": "01:36:04,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 1849,
          "text": "of creating a situation that is likely",
          "startTime": "01:36:04,908",
          "endTime": "01:36:08,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1850,
          "text": "irrecoverable from for generations.",
          "startTime": "01:36:08,608",
          "endTime": "01:36:11,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1851,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:36:11,768",
          "endTime": "01:36:12,008"
        },
        {
          "index": 1852,
          "text": "So those are my observations. And as to",
          "startTime": "01:36:12,328",
          "endTime": "01:36:15,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1853,
          "text": "the topic",
          "startTime": "01:36:16,828",
          "endTime": "01:36:17,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1854,
          "text": "that",
          "startTime": "01:36:17,428",
          "endTime": "01:36:22,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1855,
          "text": "was discussed about police and safety downtown, I know one of the things coming out",
          "startTime": "01:36:23,248",
          "endTime": "01:36:26,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1856,
          "text": "of the Downtown Vitality Strategy Task Force is people want to save downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:36:26,808",
          "endTime": "01:36:30,478"
        },
        {
          "index": 1857,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:36:31,128",
          "endTime": "01:36:31,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1858,
          "text": "I think that",
          "startTime": "01:36:32,148",
          "endTime": "01:36:32,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 1859,
          "text": "I certainly understand there are folks who",
          "startTime": "01:36:35,248",
          "endTime": "01:36:38,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1860,
          "text": "have challenges in their interactions with the police department.",
          "startTime": "01:36:40,368",
          "endTime": "01:36:43,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1861,
          "text": "If I were the police chief,",
          "startTime": "01:36:43,388",
          "endTime": "01:36:44,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1862,
          "text": "I would be highly",
          "startTime": "01:36:45,548",
          "endTime": "01:36:47,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1863,
          "text": "focused on effectiveness with the community,",
          "startTime": "01:36:49,128",
          "endTime": "01:36:52,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 1864,
          "text": "and if things were getting dramatically and drastically",
          "startTime": "01:36:53,628",
          "endTime": "01:36:57,618"
        },
        {
          "index": 1865,
          "text": "worse, I'd",
          "startTime": "01:36:57,748",
          "endTime": "01:36:58,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1866,
          "text": "certainly be all over that, and I certainly invite city manager and the",
          "startTime": "01:36:59,368",
          "endTime": "01:37:03,018"
        },
        {
          "index": 1867,
          "text": "police",
          "startTime": "01:37:03,108",
          "endTime": "01:37:03,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1868,
          "text": "to address any concerns that they have in that",
          "startTime": "01:37:04,828",
          "endTime": "01:37:08,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1869,
          "text": "realm. But I don't...",
          "startTime": "01:37:08,568",
          "endTime": "01:37:10,068"
        },
        {
          "index": 1870,
          "text": "Charlie made the comment that things are getting worse and worse, and I haven't",
          "startTime": "01:37:12,208",
          "endTime": "01:37:16,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1871,
          "text": "seen any evidence to that.",
          "startTime": "01:37:16,248",
          "endTime": "01:37:19,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1872,
          "text": "Not here.",
          "startTime": "01:37:19,628",
          "endTime": "01:37:20,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1873,
          "text": "The North Police Department is doing excellent.",
          "startTime": "01:37:21,968",
          "endTime": "01:37:24,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1874,
          "text": "I want to make it really clear that I'm not talking about them, but the",
          "startTime": "01:37:24,568",
          "endTime": "01:37:28,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1875,
          "text": "public perception-",
          "startTime": "01:37:28,288",
          "endTime": "01:37:31,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1876,
          "text": "Nationally",
          "startTime": "01:37:31,388",
          "endTime": "01:37:32,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1877,
          "text": "... nationally is not good.",
          "startTime": "01:37:32,708",
          "endTime": "01:37:33,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1878,
          "text": "Maybe we can change that.",
          "startTime": "01:37:34,848",
          "endTime": "01:37:35,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1879,
          "text": "Yeah. I think you have an opportunity to change that here.",
          "startTime": "01:37:36,168",
          "endTime": "01:37:38,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1880,
          "text": "Yeah. We think we have",
          "startTime": "01:37:38,508",
          "endTime": "01:37:40,218"
        },
        {
          "index": 1881,
          "text": "a great situation here, so I wouldn't want to",
          "startTime": "01:37:41,208",
          "endTime": "01:37:44,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1882,
          "text": "take the multiple discussions and years of discussion we've had about",
          "startTime": "01:37:46,048",
          "endTime": "01:37:49,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 1883,
          "text": "this, and make a decision about the location of a",
          "startTime": "01:37:49,788",
          "endTime": "01:37:53,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1884,
          "text": "police department,",
          "startTime": "01:37:53,548",
          "endTime": "01:37:54,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 1885,
          "text": "based on perception of what's happening in Asheville.",
          "startTime": "01:37:56,468",
          "endTime": "01:37:59,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 1886,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:37:59,108",
          "endTime": "01:37:59,288"
        },
        {
          "index": 1887,
          "text": "And so",
          "startTime": "01:37:59,358",
          "endTime": "01:37:59,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 1888,
          "text": "I'm very supportive of moving forward with an option.",
          "startTime": "01:38:00,748",
          "endTime": "01:38:03,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 1889,
          "text": "If I could just push back a little bit on your first part of that comment, not on",
          "startTime": "01:38:05,128",
          "endTime": "01:38:09,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1890,
          "text": "how police are doing.",
          "startTime": "01:38:09,068",
          "endTime": "01:38:09,888"
        },
        {
          "index": 1891,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:38:10,198",
          "endTime": "01:38:10,278"
        },
        {
          "index": 1892,
          "text": "In terms of that it would be cheaper to go someplace",
          "startTime": "01:38:11,668",
          "endTime": "01:38:15,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1893,
          "text": "else, and your example being HP, it's important to",
          "startTime": "01:38:15,548",
          "endTime": "01:38:19,408"
        },
        {
          "index": 1894,
          "text": "recognize, I think, in that conversations...",
          "startTime": "01:38:19,508",
          "endTime": "01:38:22,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1895,
          "text": "Like when someone hears it's cheaper, it's like, \"Oh, well then it's cheaper.\" But",
          "startTime": "01:38:22,408",
          "endTime": "01:38:25,678"
        },
        {
          "index": 1896,
          "text": "how much cheaper? Or is it cheaper?",
          "startTime": "01:38:25,748",
          "endTime": "01:38:28,277"
        },
        {
          "index": 1897,
          "text": "Would be a question we would have to explore more.",
          "startTime": "01:38:28,308",
          "endTime": "01:38:30,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1898,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:38:30,838",
          "endTime": "01:38:30,838"
        },
        {
          "index": 1899,
          "text": "The buildings in HP were constructed at a period of",
          "startTime": "01:38:30,868",
          "endTime": "01:38:34,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1900,
          "text": "time that,",
          "startTime": "01:38:34,568",
          "endTime": "01:38:35,998"
        },
        {
          "index": 1901,
          "text": "at least in preliminary investigations or conversations,",
          "startTime": "01:38:37,008",
          "endTime": "01:38:40,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1902,
          "text": "don't seem to meet the seismic resiliency that we would need for a 911",
          "startTime": "01:38:40,768",
          "endTime": "01:38:44,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1903,
          "text": "facility.",
          "startTime": "01:38:44,428",
          "endTime": "01:38:44,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1904,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:38:45,128",
          "endTime": "01:38:45,258"
        },
        {
          "index": 1905,
          "text": "And so even if we bought the building, are we basically",
          "startTime": "01:38:45,368",
          "endTime": "01:38:49,067"
        },
        {
          "index": 1906,
          "text": "tearing it down and constructing, at least for police, a new facility?",
          "startTime": "01:38:49,448",
          "endTime": "01:38:53,188"
        },
        {
          "index": 1907,
          "text": "So that cheaper may be just a little bit nervous to have out there in",
          "startTime": "01:38:54,108",
          "endTime": "01:38:57,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1908,
          "text": "the world.",
          "startTime": "01:38:57,688",
          "endTime": "01:38:58,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1909,
          "text": "Okay. Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:38:58,728",
          "endTime": "01:38:59,328"
        },
        {
          "index": 1910,
          "text": "Because we know that-",
          "startTime": "01:38:59,348",
          "endTime": "01:39:00,018"
        },
        {
          "index": 1911,
          "text": "Thank you for that clarification.",
          "startTime": "01:39:00,018",
          "endTime": "01:39:01,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1912,
          "text": "When I came up to Corvallis in 1995,",
          "startTime": "01:39:02,008",
          "endTime": "01:39:05,418"
        },
        {
          "index": 1913,
          "text": "I worked in the, eventually, the newest building on the HP campus,",
          "startTime": "01:39:06,448",
          "endTime": "01:39:10,318"
        },
        {
          "index": 1914,
          "text": "so that's 1995.",
          "startTime": "01:39:10,378",
          "endTime": "01:39:11,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1915,
          "text": "So I am aware of age of the buildings.",
          "startTime": "01:39:12,428",
          "endTime": "01:39:15,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1916,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:39:15,968",
          "endTime": "01:39:15,978"
        },
        {
          "index": 1917,
          "text": "Second,",
          "startTime": "01:39:16,028",
          "endTime": "01:39:16,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1918,
          "text": "I do think,",
          "startTime": "01:39:17,828",
          "endTime": "01:39:18,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1919,
          "text": "your point of we would have to quantify the cost is",
          "startTime": "01:39:19,568",
          "endTime": "01:39:23,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1920,
          "text": "absolutely... I second that 1,000%, and I'm sorry if I misspoke",
          "startTime": "01:39:23,248",
          "endTime": "01:39:26,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 1921,
          "text": "about that.",
          "startTime": "01:39:26,988",
          "endTime": "01:39:27,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1922,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:39:27,848",
          "endTime": "01:39:28,018"
        },
        {
          "index": 1923,
          "text": "I think what I meant to say, in terms of cheapest,",
          "startTime": "01:39:28,348",
          "endTime": "01:39:32,138"
        },
        {
          "index": 1924,
          "text": "is that",
          "startTime": "01:39:32,508",
          "endTime": "01:39:33,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1925,
          "text": "we could make",
          "startTime": "01:39:34,128",
          "endTime": "01:39:35,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1926,
          "text": "that decision that would force that to be the solution in the short",
          "startTime": "01:39:36,168",
          "endTime": "01:39:40,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1927,
          "text": "term, and it might, in the first year,",
          "startTime": "01:39:40,228",
          "endTime": "01:39:43,838"
        },
        {
          "index": 1928,
          "text": "save money or cost less than thinking something large.",
          "startTime": "01:39:44,648",
          "endTime": "01:39:48,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1929,
          "text": "But it will have both economic and",
          "startTime": "01:39:48,348",
          "endTime": "01:39:51,908"
        },
        {
          "index": 1930,
          "text": "non-economic costs in the long run that I would posit actually",
          "startTime": "01:39:52,428",
          "endTime": "01:39:56,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1931,
          "text": "outweigh the cost of what we're looking at.",
          "startTime": "01:39:56,468",
          "endTime": "01:39:59,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1932,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:39:59,188",
          "endTime": "01:39:59,448"
        },
        {
          "index": 1933,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:39:59,478",
          "endTime": "01:39:59,478"
        },
        {
          "index": 1934,
          "text": "So thank you for the clarification.",
          "startTime": "01:39:59,508",
          "endTime": "01:40:00,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1935,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:40:00,987",
          "endTime": "01:40:01,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1936,
          "text": "And that's a great example, if I may, is-",
          "startTime": "01:40:01,138",
          "endTime": "01:40:03,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1937,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "01:40:03,508",
          "endTime": "01:40:03,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 1938,
          "text": "... the court building.",
          "startTime": "01:40:03,668",
          "endTime": "01:40:04,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1939,
          "text": "25 years ago, we chose to lease that building, not buy it.",
          "startTime": "01:40:06,248",
          "endTime": "01:40:10,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1940,
          "text": "We end up paying,",
          "startTime": "01:40:10,848",
          "endTime": "01:40:11,478"
        },
        {
          "index": 1941,
          "text": "in today's dollars, $1.9 million in lease costs,",
          "startTime": "01:40:12,648",
          "endTime": "01:40:16,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 1942,
          "text": "and then we went out and bought the building for another 1.4 million.",
          "startTime": "01:40:16,588",
          "endTime": "01:40:19,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1943,
          "text": "And that doesn't include all the money we had to pour into it,",
          "startTime": "01:40:20,198",
          "endTime": "01:40:22,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1944,
          "text": "as far as maintenance and everything else.",
          "startTime": "01:40:23,468",
          "endTime": "01:40:25,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1945,
          "text": "So it seems, oh, it's just cheap, let's just lease it.",
          "startTime": "01:40:26,208",
          "endTime": "01:40:28,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1946,
          "text": "But in the end,",
          "startTime": "01:40:29,468",
          "endTime": "01:40:30,368"
        },
        {
          "index": 1947,
          "text": "that all adds up.",
          "startTime": "01:40:32,288",
          "endTime": "01:40:34,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1948,
          "text": "Yeah. And I would like to add about just the focus on downtown and the impact",
          "startTime": "01:40:34,248",
          "endTime": "01:40:37,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1949,
          "text": "our decisions have on downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:40:38,888",
          "endTime": "01:40:40,308"
        },
        {
          "index": 1950,
          "text": "When I was the former city councilor for downtown, and any time a",
          "startTime": "01:40:41,348",
          "endTime": "01:40:44,988"
        },
        {
          "index": 1951,
          "text": "business closes doors and you get a vacant storefront, people said, \"Look,",
          "startTime": "01:40:45,108",
          "endTime": "01:40:48,858"
        },
        {
          "index": 1952,
          "text": "downtown's dying.\"",
          "startTime": "01:40:48,928",
          "endTime": "01:40:49,668"
        },
        {
          "index": 1953,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:40:49,988",
          "endTime": "01:40:50,148"
        },
        {
          "index": 1954,
          "text": "And the same thing was said when the county vacated their building and left",
          "startTime": "01:40:50,308",
          "endTime": "01:40:52,968"
        },
        {
          "index": 1955,
          "text": "downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:40:53,028",
          "endTime": "01:40:53,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1956,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:40:53,958",
          "endTime": "01:40:53,958"
        },
        {
          "index": 1957,
          "text": "They felt everybody was like, \"Look, downtown's going to die.\"",
          "startTime": "01:40:53,968",
          "endTime": "01:40:56,488"
        },
        {
          "index": 1958,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:40:56,628",
          "endTime": "01:40:57,178"
        },
        {
          "index": 1959,
          "text": "What are we going to do?",
          "startTime": "01:40:57,568",
          "endTime": "01:40:58,228"
        },
        {
          "index": 1960,
          "text": "We have task forces that shows that there's a lot of interest in",
          "startTime": "01:40:59,768",
          "endTime": "01:41:03,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 1961,
          "text": "downtown, and",
          "startTime": "01:41:03,448",
          "endTime": "01:41:04,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1962,
          "text": "if we make a decision that removes city facilities from",
          "startTime": "01:41:05,508",
          "endTime": "01:41:09,098"
        },
        {
          "index": 1963,
          "text": "downtown,",
          "startTime": "01:41:09,128",
          "endTime": "01:41:09,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1964,
          "text": "I think it's the nail in the coffin.",
          "startTime": "01:41:11,108",
          "endTime": "01:41:13,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1965,
          "text": "Sure.",
          "startTime": "01:41:13,378",
          "endTime": "01:41:13,378"
        },
        {
          "index": 1966,
          "text": "That's the understatement. Because at least from the community's",
          "startTime": "01:41:13,408",
          "endTime": "01:41:17,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1967,
          "text": "perspective, is they're going to think we're abandoning what we say we care about,",
          "startTime": "01:41:17,408",
          "endTime": "01:41:20,948"
        },
        {
          "index": 1968,
          "text": "and that's not the direction I would be happy to go at all.",
          "startTime": "01:41:21,868",
          "endTime": "01:41:24,468"
        },
        {
          "index": 1969,
          "text": "So remember that I do not support-",
          "startTime": "01:41:24,528",
          "endTime": "01:41:26,088"
        },
        {
          "index": 1970,
          "text": "I know.",
          "startTime": "01:41:26,168",
          "endTime": "01:41:27,918"
        },
        {
          "index": 1971,
          "text": "I do want to address that there",
          "startTime": "01:41:31,268",
          "endTime": "01:41:32,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1972,
          "text": "can be a perception that it's, let's just do a cheaper solution.",
          "startTime": "01:41:33,628",
          "endTime": "01:41:37,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1973,
          "text": "And I think it can be cheaper in the moment,",
          "startTime": "01:41:37,608",
          "endTime": "01:41:39,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 1974,
          "text": "and much more costly in the long run.",
          "startTime": "01:41:40,468",
          "endTime": "01:41:43,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 1975,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:41:43,648",
          "endTime": "01:41:43,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1976,
          "text": "Yeah. In so many ways.",
          "startTime": "01:41:44,268",
          "endTime": "01:41:45,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1977,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:41:45,408",
          "endTime": "01:41:45,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 1978,
          "text": "In so many ways.",
          "startTime": "01:41:45,828",
          "endTime": "01:41:46,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1979,
          "text": "That was my point.",
          "startTime": "01:41:46,588",
          "endTime": "01:41:47,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1980,
          "text": "Not just with money.",
          "startTime": "01:41:47,088",
          "endTime": "01:41:47,828"
        },
        {
          "index": 1981,
          "text": "Well, part of what we're talking about is the cost of failure to act.",
          "startTime": "01:41:48,128",
          "endTime": "01:41:51,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 1982,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:41:52,048",
          "endTime": "01:41:52,348"
        },
        {
          "index": 1983,
          "text": "There's also the cost if you just fail.",
          "startTime": "01:41:52,548",
          "endTime": "01:41:56,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 1984,
          "text": "Because is it going to be a case we're going to be making",
          "startTime": "01:41:57,868",
          "endTime": "01:42:01,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 1985,
          "text": "however we end up",
          "startTime": "01:42:01,368",
          "endTime": "01:42:02,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1986,
          "text": "articulating that, but we're going to have a story to tell, and part of",
          "startTime": "01:42:03,748",
          "endTime": "01:42:07,717"
        },
        {
          "index": 1987,
          "text": "the story is what are the costs of our",
          "startTime": "01:42:07,748",
          "endTime": "01:42:11,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1988,
          "text": "failure-",
          "startTime": "01:42:11,668",
          "endTime": "01:42:13,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 1989,
          "text": "Yes",
          "startTime": "01:42:13,188",
          "endTime": "01:42:13,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 1990,
          "text": "... to maintain a presence downtown, to make use of",
          "startTime": "01:42:13,518",
          "endTime": "01:42:16,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 1991,
          "text": "the opportunity that we have related to the",
          "startTime": "01:42:16,648",
          "endTime": "01:42:20,428"
        },
        {
          "index": 1992,
          "text": "civic campus and downtown. There's some",
          "startTime": "01:42:21,048",
          "endTime": "01:42:24,648"
        },
        {
          "index": 1993,
          "text": "aspects of that that we're only beginning to articulate.",
          "startTime": "01:42:24,768",
          "endTime": "01:42:27,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 1994,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:42:27,688",
          "endTime": "01:42:28,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 1995,
          "text": "Which is",
          "startTime": "01:42:28,928",
          "endTime": "01:42:29,208"
        },
        {
          "index": 1996,
          "text": "dealing with is that we have",
          "startTime": "01:42:30,388",
          "endTime": "01:42:32,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 1997,
          "text": "a downtown vitality plan",
          "startTime": "01:42:33,768",
          "endTime": "01:42:36,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 1998,
          "text": "that's",
          "startTime": "01:42:37,348",
          "endTime": "01:42:37,808"
        },
        {
          "index": 1999,
          "text": "getting close, but it's not there yet.",
          "startTime": "01:42:38,648",
          "endTime": "01:42:40,548"
        },
        {
          "index": 2000,
          "text": "And",
          "startTime": "01:42:41,528",
          "endTime": "01:42:42,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 2001,
          "text": "so that whole aspect of a civic campus and",
          "startTime": "01:42:43,408",
          "endTime": "01:42:47,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 2002,
          "text": "its relationship to a vital community",
          "startTime": "01:42:47,288",
          "endTime": "01:42:49,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 2003,
          "text": "is something that would, in some ways, happen as part of a design",
          "startTime": "01:42:50,428",
          "endTime": "01:42:54,168"
        },
        {
          "index": 2004,
          "text": "process, right? In order to undertake the design process, we",
          "startTime": "01:42:54,248",
          "endTime": "01:42:58,048"
        },
        {
          "index": 2005,
          "text": "have",
          "startTime": "01:42:58,108",
          "endTime": "01:42:58,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 2006,
          "text": "money to spend and decisions to make.",
          "startTime": "01:42:59,748",
          "endTime": "01:43:01,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 2007,
          "text": "And so there's a wish we could put the",
          "startTime": "01:43:02,328",
          "endTime": "01:43:04,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 2008,
          "text": "points a little bit because that's",
          "startTime": "01:43:05,628",
          "endTime": "01:43:07,868"
        },
        {
          "index": 2009,
          "text": "part of the story we're trying to tell.",
          "startTime": "01:43:08,768",
          "endTime": "01:43:10,568"
        },
        {
          "index": 2010,
          "text": "Is what can our downtown be, especially with",
          "startTime": "01:43:10,928",
          "endTime": "01:43:14,248"
        },
        {
          "index": 2011,
          "text": "the civic campus, and a civic",
          "startTime": "01:43:15,228",
          "endTime": "01:43:18,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 2012,
          "text": "campus that's reimagined",
          "startTime": "01:43:18,788",
          "endTime": "01:43:20,588"
        },
        {
          "index": 2013,
          "text": "as a place for our community to gather",
          "startTime": "01:43:21,568",
          "endTime": "01:43:24,028"
        },
        {
          "index": 2014,
          "text": "and for a place for our community to rub shoulders with the police department.",
          "startTime": "01:43:24,908",
          "endTime": "01:43:28,788"
        },
        {
          "index": 2015,
          "text": "If you want to take a moment to try to reflect on the lack of it- ...",
          "startTime": "01:43:28,828",
          "endTime": "01:43:31,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 2016,
          "text": "following through with these plans.",
          "startTime": "01:43:32,188",
          "endTime": "01:43:33,388"
        },
        {
          "index": 2017,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:43:33,488",
          "endTime": "01:43:33,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 2018,
          "text": "How much has that contributed to the current state of downtown?",
          "startTime": "01:43:33,928",
          "endTime": "01:43:36,628"
        },
        {
          "index": 2019,
          "text": "Correct.",
          "startTime": "01:43:36,828",
          "endTime": "01:43:37,108"
        },
        {
          "index": 2020,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:43:37,488",
          "endTime": "01:43:37,708"
        },
        {
          "index": 2021,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:43:37,758",
          "endTime": "01:43:37,758"
        },
        {
          "index": 2022,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:43:38,268",
          "endTime": "01:43:38,528"
        },
        {
          "index": 2023,
          "text": "And it's hard to",
          "startTime": "01:43:38,808",
          "endTime": "01:43:40,508"
        },
        {
          "index": 2024,
          "text": "communicate that vision",
          "startTime": "01:43:41,808",
          "endTime": "01:43:42,988"
        },
        {
          "index": 2025,
          "text": "until it's there. But I've said this before, you think about",
          "startTime": "01:43:43,848",
          "endTime": "01:43:47,768"
        },
        {
          "index": 2026,
          "text": "Riverfront Park, a lot of controversy over that.",
          "startTime": "01:43:48,148",
          "endTime": "01:43:52,128"
        },
        {
          "index": 2027,
          "text": "Totally.",
          "startTime": "01:43:52,388",
          "endTime": "01:43:52,688"
        },
        {
          "index": 2028,
          "text": "But who here could imagine downtown Corvallis without it?",
          "startTime": "01:43:52,698",
          "endTime": "01:43:55,268"
        },
        {
          "index": 2029,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:43:55,428",
          "endTime": "01:43:55,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 2030,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:43:55,988",
          "endTime": "01:43:56,018"
        },
        {
          "index": 2031,
          "text": "And so it's-",
          "startTime": "01:43:56,028",
          "endTime": "01:43:56,748"
        },
        {
          "index": 2032,
          "text": "I think this would be exactly the same.",
          "startTime": "01:43:58,656",
          "endTime": "01:44:01,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 2033,
          "text": "To be fair, there was a lot of compromise that went into the final",
          "startTime": "01:44:01,996",
          "endTime": "01:44:05,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 2034,
          "text": "design on downtown, because that was my first thing that I was",
          "startTime": "01:44:05,916",
          "endTime": "01:44:09,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 2035,
          "text": "paying attention to-",
          "startTime": "01:44:09,756",
          "endTime": "01:44:10,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 2036,
          "text": "Mm-hmm",
          "startTime": "01:44:10,816",
          "endTime": "01:44:10,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 2037,
          "text": "... when I moved, so what was happening in Corvallis. I was a new resident.",
          "startTime": "01:44:11,356",
          "endTime": "01:44:14,415"
        },
        {
          "index": 2038,
          "text": "And the original design is now what we ended up with.",
          "startTime": "01:44:15,016",
          "endTime": "01:44:17,806"
        },
        {
          "index": 2039,
          "text": "So there was a lot-",
          "startTime": "01:44:19,096",
          "endTime": "01:44:20,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 2040,
          "text": "You actually put it to a referendum, which I think-",
          "startTime": "01:44:20,146",
          "endTime": "01:44:22,226"
        },
        {
          "index": 2041,
          "text": "A lot of community engagement in that",
          "startTime": "01:44:22,226",
          "endTime": "01:44:24,116"
        },
        {
          "index": 2042,
          "text": "... failed.",
          "startTime": "01:44:24,126",
          "endTime": "01:44:25,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 2043,
          "text": "I just wanted to interject that there are members of the downtown",
          "startTime": "01:44:25,856",
          "endTime": "01:44:29,795"
        },
        {
          "index": 2044,
          "text": "task force",
          "startTime": "01:44:29,916",
          "endTime": "01:44:30,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 2045,
          "text": "that are just making the connection",
          "startTime": "01:44:31,616",
          "endTime": "01:44:33,636"
        },
        {
          "index": 2046,
          "text": "between the importance of having facilities downtown to the",
          "startTime": "01:44:35,196",
          "endTime": "01:44:39,176"
        },
        {
          "index": 2047,
          "text": "vitality of downtown. So we have a job to",
          "startTime": "01:44:39,216",
          "endTime": "01:44:43,176"
        },
        {
          "index": 2048,
          "text": "do to properly",
          "startTime": "01:44:43,216",
          "endTime": "01:44:46,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 2049,
          "text": "communicate to the community the crucial",
          "startTime": "01:44:46,756",
          "endTime": "01:44:50,036"
        },
        {
          "index": 2050,
          "text": "aspect of having",
          "startTime": "01:44:51,316",
          "endTime": "01:44:52,346"
        },
        {
          "index": 2051,
          "text": "staff, police, community",
          "startTime": "01:44:53,296",
          "endTime": "01:44:55,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 2052,
          "text": "focal point,",
          "startTime": "01:44:57,336",
          "endTime": "01:44:58,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 2053,
          "text": "and then do this thing.",
          "startTime": "01:44:59,956",
          "endTime": "01:45:01,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 2054,
          "text": "As I think you said, how would it look to the community",
          "startTime": "01:45:03,156",
          "endTime": "01:45:06,366"
        },
        {
          "index": 2055,
          "text": "if",
          "startTime": "01:45:07,196",
          "endTime": "01:45:07,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 2056,
          "text": "we fail at this?",
          "startTime": "01:45:09,296",
          "endTime": "01:45:10,176"
        },
        {
          "index": 2057,
          "text": "How about we just give up and say, \"Oh well, we can't afford it.",
          "startTime": "01:45:11,256",
          "endTime": "01:45:14,376"
        },
        {
          "index": 2058,
          "text": "We're going to move up to H Street.\" In the middle of trying to",
          "startTime": "01:45:14,396",
          "endTime": "01:45:18,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 2059,
          "text": "revitalize downtown?",
          "startTime": "01:45:18,236",
          "endTime": "01:45:19,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 2060,
          "text": "So anyway.",
          "startTime": "01:45:22,116",
          "endTime": "01:45:22,916"
        },
        {
          "index": 2061,
          "text": "We're failing by not making the difficult decision.",
          "startTime": "01:45:23,056",
          "endTime": "01:45:25,896"
        },
        {
          "index": 2062,
          "text": "Right. So anyway, we have our work cut out for us from a messaging",
          "startTime": "01:45:25,996",
          "endTime": "01:45:29,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 2063,
          "text": "standpoint, because we've been at the downtown task force and the",
          "startTime": "01:45:29,976",
          "endTime": "01:45:33,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 2064,
          "text": "civic campus for how long, and people do not make the connection.",
          "startTime": "01:45:33,796",
          "endTime": "01:45:37,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 2065,
          "text": "Clint.",
          "startTime": "01:45:38,916",
          "endTime": "01:45:39,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2066,
          "text": "I was",
          "startTime": "01:45:40,176",
          "endTime": "01:45:40,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 2067,
          "text": "really involved in the downtown riverfront stuff",
          "startTime": "01:45:41,416",
          "endTime": "01:45:44,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 2068,
          "text": "in more than one way,",
          "startTime": "01:45:45,096",
          "endTime": "01:45:46,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 2069,
          "text": "and there were opponents, and there were proponents, but what they had in",
          "startTime": "01:45:47,336",
          "endTime": "01:45:51,176"
        },
        {
          "index": 2070,
          "text": "common was that something was going to happen at the river.",
          "startTime": "01:45:51,236",
          "endTime": "01:45:53,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 2071,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:45:53,476",
          "endTime": "01:45:53,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 2072,
          "text": "And so the",
          "startTime": "01:45:54,396",
          "endTime": "01:45:56,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 2073,
          "text": "issue was around the details of what was going to happen, wasn't that",
          "startTime": "01:45:57,016",
          "endTime": "01:46:00,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 2074,
          "text": "something wasn't going to happen.",
          "startTime": "01:46:00,356",
          "endTime": "01:46:02,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 2075,
          "text": "And so",
          "startTime": "01:46:02,576",
          "endTime": "01:46:03,596"
        },
        {
          "index": 2076,
          "text": "at core, there was consensus about",
          "startTime": "01:46:04,736",
          "endTime": "01:46:07,426"
        },
        {
          "index": 2077,
          "text": "the riverfront. It was time to transform it into a parking lot,",
          "startTime": "01:46:09,036",
          "endTime": "01:46:12,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 2078,
          "text": "because that's what it was, it was a gravel parking lot,",
          "startTime": "01:46:13,416",
          "endTime": "01:46:15,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 2079,
          "text": "to something else. And",
          "startTime": "01:46:16,656",
          "endTime": "01:46:19,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 2080,
          "text": "so part of our responsibility in all of this",
          "startTime": "01:46:21,676",
          "endTime": "01:46:25,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2081,
          "text": "is going to be to articulate the vision",
          "startTime": "01:46:26,036",
          "endTime": "01:46:29,096"
        },
        {
          "index": 2082,
          "text": "that",
          "startTime": "01:46:29,136",
          "endTime": "01:46:30,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 2083,
          "text": "this is the future we want, even if we don't know the",
          "startTime": "01:46:31,716",
          "endTime": "01:46:35,256"
        },
        {
          "index": 2084,
          "text": "details yet, and even if there's going to be a lot of work to do",
          "startTime": "01:46:35,296",
          "endTime": "01:46:37,916"
        },
        {
          "index": 2085,
          "text": "to articulate in specifics what is this",
          "startTime": "01:46:38,756",
          "endTime": "01:46:42,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 2086,
          "text": "going to look like, how is it going to benefit the community and downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:46:42,736",
          "endTime": "01:46:46,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 2087,
          "text": "And so if we're going to do this, it's our job to build that",
          "startTime": "01:46:48,976",
          "endTime": "01:46:52,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 2088,
          "text": "consensus.",
          "startTime": "01:46:52,956",
          "endTime": "01:46:53,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 2089,
          "text": "Mm-hmm. Right.",
          "startTime": "01:46:53,516",
          "endTime": "01:46:54,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 2090,
          "text": "In the same way that people started planning",
          "startTime": "01:46:54,856",
          "endTime": "01:46:57,776"
        },
        {
          "index": 2091,
          "text": "a future riverfront that was going to be not gravel parking lots",
          "startTime": "01:46:58,716",
          "endTime": "01:47:02,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 2092,
          "text": "anyway.",
          "startTime": "01:47:02,536",
          "endTime": "01:47:02,716"
        },
        {
          "index": 2093,
          "text": "Yeah. I think we need to decide what we want for camp.",
          "startTime": "01:47:03,136",
          "endTime": "01:47:06,616"
        },
        {
          "index": 2094,
          "text": "But I'll give you an example.",
          "startTime": "01:47:08,676",
          "endTime": "01:47:10,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 2095,
          "text": "Our City Hall right now, some people love it, some people hate it,",
          "startTime": "01:47:12,416",
          "endTime": "01:47:16,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 2096,
          "text": "just by the looks of it.",
          "startTime": "01:47:16,636",
          "endTime": "01:47:17,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 2097,
          "text": "But if you look at CHS, the old high school that's",
          "startTime": "01:47:18,736",
          "endTime": "01:47:22,646"
        },
        {
          "index": 2098,
          "text": "torn down, I like the old school, but the new school,",
          "startTime": "01:47:22,656",
          "endTime": "01:47:26,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 2099,
          "text": "so much better.",
          "startTime": "01:47:26,796",
          "endTime": "01:47:28,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 2100,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:47:28,176",
          "endTime": "01:47:28,366"
        },
        {
          "index": 2101,
          "text": "Way better in terms of",
          "startTime": "01:47:29,016",
          "endTime": "01:47:30,986"
        },
        {
          "index": 2102,
          "text": "classroom and",
          "startTime": "01:47:33,216",
          "endTime": "01:47:34,325"
        },
        {
          "index": 2103,
          "text": "environment,",
          "startTime": "01:47:35,176",
          "endTime": "01:47:35,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 2104,
          "text": "and-",
          "startTime": "01:47:36,656",
          "endTime": "01:47:36,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 2105,
          "text": "I index this class I",
          "startTime": "01:47:37,996",
          "endTime": "01:47:39,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 2106,
          "text": "disagree.",
          "startTime": "01:47:39,136",
          "endTime": "01:47:42,656"
        },
        {
          "index": 2107,
          "text": "And you think about what can we do if we got rid of that",
          "startTime": "01:47:43,116",
          "endTime": "01:47:46,746"
        },
        {
          "index": 2108,
          "text": "barracks, or whatever you want to call it, that the law enforcement",
          "startTime": "01:47:49,276",
          "endTime": "01:47:53,136"
        },
        {
          "index": 2109,
          "text": "building is now. Guess what you could put there?",
          "startTime": "01:47:53,196",
          "endTime": "01:47:55,836"
        },
        {
          "index": 2110,
          "text": "You could put-",
          "startTime": "01:47:56,296",
          "endTime": "01:47:57,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2111,
          "text": "Over/under",
          "startTime": "01:47:57,896",
          "endTime": "01:47:57,906"
        },
        {
          "index": 2112,
          "text": "... you could put all kinds",
          "startTime": "01:47:57,906",
          "endTime": "01:48:01,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 2113,
          "text": "of beneficial things for our folks.",
          "startTime": "01:48:01,436",
          "endTime": "01:48:05,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2114,
          "text": "We keep the courthouse, we keep the other historic aspects of",
          "startTime": "01:48:06,216",
          "endTime": "01:48:09,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 2115,
          "text": "downtown.",
          "startTime": "01:48:09,936",
          "endTime": "01:48:10,556"
        },
        {
          "index": 2116,
          "text": "So,",
          "startTime": "01:48:12,076",
          "endTime": "01:48:12,316"
        },
        {
          "index": 2117,
          "text": "at first I thought, there's a lot of pushback",
          "startTime": "01:48:13,476",
          "endTime": "01:48:17,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 2118,
          "text": "about",
          "startTime": "01:48:17,356",
          "endTime": "01:48:17,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 2119,
          "text": "the city hall, we should preserve it.",
          "startTime": "01:48:19,075",
          "endTime": "01:48:21,276"
        },
        {
          "index": 2120,
          "text": "But, the earthquake that's coming around, I don't know, the PBS",
          "startTime": "01:48:21,356",
          "endTime": "01:48:25,216"
        },
        {
          "index": 2121,
          "text": "special, the",
          "startTime": "01:48:26,216",
          "endTime": "01:48:27,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2122,
          "text": "latest special on",
          "startTime": "01:48:28,776",
          "endTime": "01:48:29,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 2123,
          "text": "the",
          "startTime": "01:48:31,356",
          "endTime": "01:48:31,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 2124,
          "text": "big one.",
          "startTime": "01:48:33,716",
          "endTime": "01:48:35,296"
        },
        {
          "index": 2125,
          "text": "30, 35% chance in the next 50 years.",
          "startTime": "01:48:36,696",
          "endTime": "01:48:40,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 2126,
          "text": "So if we don't do something now, we're going to end up-",
          "startTime": "01:48:40,696",
          "endTime": "01:48:43,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 2127,
          "text": "We might be forced to.",
          "startTime": "01:48:44,136",
          "endTime": "01:48:44,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 2128,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:48:44,996",
          "endTime": "01:48:45,576"
        },
        {
          "index": 2129,
          "text": "Right.",
          "startTime": "01:48:45,636",
          "endTime": "01:48:45,916"
        },
        {
          "index": 2130,
          "text": "Yeah. We will not have",
          "startTime": "01:48:46,336",
          "endTime": "01:48:48,416"
        },
        {
          "index": 2131,
          "text": "the facilities to continue with",
          "startTime": "01:48:50,076",
          "endTime": "01:48:52,676"
        },
        {
          "index": 2132,
          "text": "operating the city.",
          "startTime": "01:48:53,776",
          "endTime": "01:48:54,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 2133,
          "text": "So we're not going to wait for the earthquake to have",
          "startTime": "01:48:55,616",
          "endTime": "01:48:59,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2134,
          "text": "this happen, but if you think",
          "startTime": "01:48:59,356",
          "endTime": "01:49:01,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 2135,
          "text": "it's",
          "startTime": "01:49:02,336",
          "endTime": "01:49:02,465"
        },
        {
          "index": 2136,
          "text": "been",
          "startTime": "01:49:03,736",
          "endTime": "01:49:04,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 2137,
          "text": "300 years since it last happened, and the average is",
          "startTime": "01:49:04,996",
          "endTime": "01:49:07,516"
        },
        {
          "index": 2138,
          "text": "250 years, and yeah. Take a look at that and",
          "startTime": "01:49:08,496",
          "endTime": "01:49:12,336"
        },
        {
          "index": 2139,
          "text": "be scared.",
          "startTime": "01:49:12,536",
          "endTime": "01:49:13,496"
        },
        {
          "index": 2140,
          "text": "We definitely have some decisions to make and some more information to",
          "startTime": "01:49:15,536",
          "endTime": "01:49:18,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 2141,
          "text": "come. So-",
          "startTime": "01:49:19,016",
          "endTime": "01:49:19,996"
        },
        {
          "index": 2142,
          "text": "Yes",
          "startTime": "01:49:20,716",
          "endTime": "01:49:20,976"
        },
        {
          "index": 2143,
          "text": "...",
          "startTime": "01:49:21,076",
          "endTime": "01:49:21,076"
        },
        {
          "index": 2144,
          "text": "maybe we should move on here so we can get out of here at a reasonable time.",
          "startTime": "01:49:22,756",
          "endTime": "01:49:25,396"
        },
        {
          "index": 2145,
          "text": "But again, I really appreciate the effort, the work, and I love the data.",
          "startTime": "01:49:25,996",
          "endTime": "01:49:29,796"
        },
        {
          "index": 2146,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:49:30,636",
          "endTime": "01:49:31,436"
        },
        {
          "index": 2147,
          "text": "Yeah.",
          "startTime": "01:49:31,465",
          "endTime": "01:49:31,465"
        },
        {
          "index": 2148,
          "text": "Mm-hmm.",
          "startTime": "01:49:31,476",
          "endTime": "01:49:31,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 2149,
          "text": "It can be shocking.",
          "startTime": "01:49:32,976",
          "endTime": "01:49:33,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 2150,
          "text": "Yeah. It's similar to the person that said, also, \"I'd really like that.\"",
          "startTime": "01:49:34,376",
          "endTime": "01:49:36,726"
        },
        {
          "index": 2151,
          "text": "I'd like to see the money part of it.",
          "startTime": "01:49:36,796",
          "endTime": "01:49:38,356"
        },
        {
          "index": 2152,
          "text": "Good. I know.",
          "startTime": "01:49:38,736",
          "endTime": "01:49:39,536"
        },
        {
          "index": 2153,
          "text": "So we'll move on now.",
          "startTime": "01:49:42,216",
          "endTime": "01:49:42,956"
        },
        {
          "index": 2154,
          "text": "Community comments, we did receive some written community comments in your email,",
          "startTime": "01:49:44,056",
          "endTime": "01:49:47,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 2155,
          "text": "so be sure to read that.",
          "startTime": "01:49:47,776",
          "endTime": "01:49:48,816"
        },
        {
          "index": 2156,
          "text": "Any questions on the three-month calendar?",
          "startTime": "01:49:51,056",
          "endTime": "01:49:52,876"
        },
        {
          "index": 2157,
          "text": "Charles,",
          "startTime": "01:49:54,436",
          "endTime": "01:49:54,916"
        },
        {
          "index": 2158,
          "text": "I submitted something-",
          "startTime": "01:49:55,896",
          "endTime": "01:49:57,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 2159,
          "text": "Yeah",
          "startTime": "01:49:57,356",
          "endTime": "01:49:57,696"
        },
        {
          "index": 2160,
          "text": "... and Council of Impact also submitted something to get on the",
          "startTime": "01:49:57,716",
          "endTime": "01:50:01,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 2161,
          "text": "agenda. When are we actually going to have those conversations?",
          "startTime": "01:50:01,256",
          "endTime": "01:50:05,016"
        },
        {
          "index": 2162,
          "text": "I'll be looking to schedule those things at the end of January.",
          "startTime": "01:50:05,256",
          "endTime": "01:50:08,306"
        },
        {
          "index": 2163,
          "text": "With those, I was specifically waiting for the last conversation we had",
          "startTime": "01:50:09,116",
          "endTime": "01:50:13,056"
        },
        {
          "index": 2164,
          "text": "on Monday around how the process should be.",
          "startTime": "01:50:13,096",
          "endTime": "01:50:15,736"
        },
        {
          "index": 2165,
          "text": "So those are coming.",
          "startTime": "01:50:16,256",
          "endTime": "01:50:17,426"
        },
        {
          "index": 2166,
          "text": "Okay. I didn't feel like we came to any sort of understanding of how the process",
          "startTime": "01:50:17,636",
          "endTime": "01:50:21,476"
        },
        {
          "index": 2167,
          "text": "would be.",
          "startTime": "01:50:21,516",
          "endTime": "01:50:21,856"
        },
        {
          "index": 2168,
          "text": "No. I think the only we're going to do at this point-",
          "startTime": "01:50:21,956",
          "endTime": "01:50:23,126"
        },
        {
          "index": 2169,
          "text": "How I'm comfortable",
          "startTime": "01:50:23,136",
          "endTime": "01:50:23,766"
        },
        {
          "index": 2170,
          "text": "... is to move forward and do it.",
          "startTime": "01:50:23,766",
          "endTime": "01:50:25,196"
        },
        {
          "index": 2171,
          "text": "So that will be happening. Anything else?",
          "startTime": "01:50:26,936",
          "endTime": "01:50:29,936"
        },
        {
          "index": 2172,
          "text": "All right. I'll turn the mic back. I say we're adjourned. Thank you.",
          "startTime": "01:50:32,796",
          "endTime": "01:50:35,896"
        }
      ]
    }
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      "meeting:corvallis-2026-04-09-council-work-session",
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    "text": "Quiet, please.\nAll right, everybody. My watch says it's four o'clock, so let's go ahead and call\nto order today's meeting of-- today's work session of the\nCorvallis City Council.\nOne big topic for today, so let's just get to it and take up all our time.\nOur facility investments, police and civic campus options.\nWhy don't you go ahead and hand it over to-\nI'm going to hand it back.\nOh, okay.\nYeah. I'll just kick it off with some comments just to\nprovide some\nperspective and background as we reenter this conversation,\nand then I'll turn it over\nto the smart people in the room, our architects and\nMary.\nAs we've talked\nmany times before, Corvallis has largely ignored our\nfacilities\nfor\ndecades.\nAnd we have seen some recent progress and wins in that\nwe remodeled Fire Station 2, we remodeled Fire Station 3 with\nthe federal ARPA funds, and in several months we'll be\nbreaking ground on park maintenance facilities.\nSo those certainly are exciting things.\nBut we continue to push our existing facilities\nto a breaking point, and there truly are\nimpacts to staff, operational impacts.\nYou see quite a few staff in the audience because\nthis is an issue that is\nvery important to all of us.\nAnd as I was\nthinking about that and what we've done over these decades, I really\ndo think Corvallis, in the way we've balanced our budget,\nwe've expanded services at the cost of not investing\nin our facilities.\nWe've\ncreated this false narrative or expectation that you don't need\nto invest in facilities. Where if we had been\nregularly investing, we would've been taking out bonds, we would have\ndebt,\nor we would've been putting money aside for these facilities,\nand yet we\nhaven't done that.\nAnd yet investing in facilities, civic facilities, is really the\nnorm. Most communities do this\non a regular basis.\nAnd you don't have to look very far.\nYou look to our neighbors in Albany.\nThey have what I'll call a newish city hall.\nIt's pushing 30 years now, but that's a purpose-built facility that is\nserving them well.\nThey have a brand-new police station, a brand-new\ndowntown fire station. They have two\nsatellite fire stations that are relatively new.\nThey purchased a building and repurposed it into an expanded library.\nSo again, you see that investment from our neighbors right there.\nYou go north of us,\nMonmouth, just a couple of years ago, opened up a brand-new\npurpose-built city hall.\nMonmouth's neighbor, Independence, years before Monmouth,\nbuilt a civic center that houses their city\nadministration and their police department.\nAnd then interestingly, my in-laws, they live out in Scio.\nI don't know if any of you have been to Scio.\nIt's a town of about 1,000 people,\nand I've had to be out there a little more frequently because my in-laws are\nrequiring a little more attention.\nAnd\nI've seen recently they are building from the ground up a purpose-built\ncity hall. So big or small, communities do\ninvest in their civic\nbuildings and facilities.\nAnd then if you think about even private companies, they are\nprofit-driven, so they're generally not going to do something if there's not a\nreturn on investment.\nAnd yet they do invest in not just factories, but other\nfacilities, office buildings and things, because they know there is a return on\ninvestment.\nThey know that in that it helps attract and\nretain high-quality staff, something certainly we want to\ndo. It creates an environment where there's collaboration,\nwhere the staff feel valued,\nwhere they feel safe, comfortable.\nAll those things leverage this return on investment of\neffectiveness, efficiency.\nSo I think we can take some notes from the private sector that there is\na return on these investments, truly,\nin how we operate.\nAnd nothing in our plans comes close to\na private company's campus or\nfacilities.\nBut I do think our staff should be able to expect that they can\ncome to work in a place that is safe,\nthat is comfortable,\nthat's functional,\nthat's equitable,\nso they feel valued, and that they can do their work well, that they can\ncollaborate and communicate well.\nSo well-functioning facilities are a foundational\naspect\nof a high-performing organization.\nAnd it's interesting, as\nover the years that I've been here, we've brought forward different master plans.\nYou think of a water master plan, the wastewater master plan,\nand I know council understands, the community understands we need to\ninvest in that infrastructure.\nAnd those are expensive. Water treatment plant, wastewater treatment plant.\nWe have to invest in those. Why? Because the community's growing, and\nso those facilities have to accommodate that\ngrowth. Environmental regulations\nchange, and so those plants need to\naccommodate that. There's a parallel.\nIt's directly the same with our buildings that house our staffAs our\ncommunity grows, we've added staff.\nWe need to accommodate those staff.\nAnd as the workforce evolves, we need to accommodate that\nnew environment\nwith the evolved staffing that we have.\nSo\nour buildings and facilities are no different than what we see in our\nwastewater treatment plants.\nAnd in fact,\nwe do have a facilities master plan.\nThis was adopted by the council in January of\n2022. It's our citywide facilities\nstrategy. So it is a master plan. And while\ntoday we're talking about the civic campus and the police facilities,\nthere are many more facilities yet that we need to address.\nAnd I want you to keep that in mind as we move forward in the months ahead, when\nwe start talking about funding and how we might\nfund facility projects. And then\nlastly, I think it's good to remind ourselves\nthat really at the heart, at the very beginning of our\nconversations and planning for civic campus and police station, was\nthis idea that this is not just about staff space, it's\nnot just about office space,\nbut it truly is an opportunity to make a community\nspace. It's really a\nonce in a lifetime opportunity to create something downtown.\nAnd I think it's exciting,\nkind of that refocus on downtown that the community has had and\nhow those conversations are developing, how projects are\nmoving forward.\nAnd I do want to remind everyone that\nthe beginning, the driver, the impetus for this focus on downtown\nwas actually when we brought civic campus and police station\nproject forward years ago. That's what really kind of kicked that\noff.\nSo I do think these projects specifically\ncan have a huge impact far outside\njust how they impact the way the city delivers services.\nAs we move forward today, we are not seeking a decision from\nthe council. And in fact, you wouldn't be able to provide a\nwell-reasoned or well-informed decision today because we haven't talked\nabout the revenue side, how we might pay for that, and what\nmight be possible.\nSo this really is to\nrespond to the resolution that the council passed to bring\nforward this option and\nimplications of moving forward in different ways with these facilities, together or\nseparate.\nSo that's what we'll work towards today and provide.\nAnd it's important to keep this information\nin mind as we move forward in May and June,\nand if it goes on a month or two beyond that, and we start\nmaking decisions about the facilities and the funding.\nThis is really foundational for that, for you, hopefully also\nfor the community too.\nSo with that, I'll be turning it over.\nI think Ian, you're going to kick us off.\nIan is going to lead us through a section.\nMary's going to talk about sustainable decision-making.\nI think the best way to handle this is hold your questions till\nIan's done, we'll open it up. Mary's done, and then once we're done with\neverything,\nhopefully we'll have some good conversation and general questions\nat the end.\nAny questions before I hand it over to Ian?\nOkay. Good.\nAll right.\nAnd Ian, you can introduce yourself and John.\nGood afternoon, council. Great to see many of you again.\nFor those of you who I haven't met before,\nmy name is Ian Gelber. I'm a partner with FFA Architecture and Interiors of\nPortland. We're a 70-year-old practice that has been in\npretty much that entire time.\nMost of our work is focused on public facilities like\nthe facilities that you're considering today.\nI'm joined here today with John Peet, who is our project manager.\nHe's here to make sure that I don't say anything that I wasn't supposed to say or\nto actually correct me if I get something wrong.\nFor most of my 28-year career, I have been focused\non public facilities. Within the last 10, my\nfocus has been helping\nmunicipalities like yours get from conversations like\ntoday to opening day.\nYeah.\nAnd all the various ways that those types of things happen.\nWith that, we're going to dive in.\nSo we have here. We've organized this in such a\nway to reset the stage. It's been\na little over a year or more since we've had a chance to, since\ncouncil made the decision about which vision that they wanted to move forward with.\nSo we want to reintroduce that, particularly for council members who weren't a part\nof those conversations.\nAnd then the bulk of the conversation is really about how these projects get\nimplemented. And we'll go through a series of scenarios and talk\nabout the pros and cons and what the risks might be to full\nimplementation. And then lastly, as Mark mentioned, then there's the\nconversation about what the upcoming process.\nSo resetting the stage.\nThis endeavor began in 2022 with the master\nplan that Mark just mentioned.\nAnd so within that\neffort, we had tasks of assessing the different\nfacilities that are in Corvallis's facility portfolio.\nAnd so we looked at a range of different thingsThis gets at\nwhat Mark talked about initially, which is that if the red\nline represents the population growth of the city\nof Corvallis\nup until, I think about\na little past 2020.\nExcuse me. And that the projected growth is to continue to\nabout 75,000 by 2040.\nThe dark blue represents the amount of square footage in your existing facilities.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd you start to see where that gap has\noccurred over time, where your facility investment, just\nfrom a space needs, hasn't kept up with your population growth.\nAnd then as that dashed line moves past, that is the\nexpected growth that's to happen.\nAnd so there's a risk that you sort of get deeper in the hole much quickly\nif you don't take the steps in some ways in the\nreasonable future.\nIn addition to looking at space needs, and we'll talk a little bit about space\nneeds again, we were responsible for doing ranking the\ncurrent facilities relative to their condition.\nAnd we've got four buckets. We have administrative, which\nincludes\ncity administration, city hall,\nHR, everything that is centered around the management of the\ncity. We have operations, that includes public works and parks\nmaintenance, and then we have public safety, which is police\nas well as fire. And then public-facing functions that are\nlibrary, the pool, theater,\nthey fall in that last.\nAt the bottom you see our sort of rating scale.\nEverything from poor, which is one or the dark red, to\ngreen, which is good.\nSo the dark red that you see in operations, that's parks maintenance.\nAnd if you've ever toured parks maintenance facility, I don't think that's\narguable.\nIf you look at public safety, that is the law enforcement building.\nAnd then the green aspects there, or there's a little bit red there\nalso for city hall.\nAnd then the green aspect is the investments that you've already done with the fire\nstation work that you've completed.\nSo this is a representation of those space needs with those\nsame buckets, the administrative, the operations, the public safety, and public\nfacing.\nThe light gray represents your current square footage.\nThe dark red represents to meet today's current needs,\nhow much more square footage you would need.\nAnd then to the bluish cyan color\nrepresents if you're projecting that growth out to\n2040, how much additional space you would need on top of what you have\ntoday.\nI will say that in this process of evaluation of the\ncity facilities, we looked at everything.\nWe went through 10 departments,\nand 17 facilities overall. John's going to correct me if I get that wrong.\nThanks.\nSure.\nAs part of that process, we established guiding principles\nfor the arc of what we're talking about, both in that facility\nassessment and moving forward into concept design.\nAll of those guiding principles came from the work that council\nhad already done in a series of policy documents.\nSo if you remember, we had a matrix that we presented last\ntime that showed\nall the things they were doing and how they tied back to specific policy decisions\nthe council had made over time. And so it just reinforced the\npriorities that council had,\nand we felt like it was a good way to kind of evaluate the steps that we were\ntaking.\nSo let's talk about the decision that council made back\nin November of 2024.\nWe presented multiple scenarios about how\nCivic Campus and the police station\ncould be configured around Madison.\nThese were really the sites that we focused on.\nThis was land that the city either owned or was in the process of owning,\nand we felt like this was the right place with\nother priorities around Madison Avenue.\nMost of the other versions that we talked about with you involved\nkeeping the existing city hall or not.\nThis was the ultimate vision that council decided, and I'm going to walk through\nquickly just the different categories,\nwhy they were ranked the way that they were.\nSo in the white bars that you see, anything on the left\nwhere it has a little negative were considered less desirable\nrelative to those guiding principles.\nAnything where it goes all the way to the right where the positive is,\nfelt like they were meeting guiding principles much better.\nSo\nbeginning with the first one, from a functional and operation standpoint,\nthese projects were bringing everybody together and consolidating them\naround\nthe potential plaza area on Madison.\nAnd that notion of synergies across\ncity departments was seen as a positive, versus being\ndistributed between the existing city hall, this\nbuilding.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nThanks.\nThis was seen as a way to\ncreate a higher degree of synergy and efficiency.\nCarbon impact.\nWe spent a lot of time talking about carbon.\nWhen you are\nevaluating carbon, you're looking at carbon from two perspectives.\nOne is the embodied carbon, which from an architectural standpoint, it's what\nit takes to make the building, to build the building.\nAnd then you're talking about operational carbon, which is how much it takes to\nrun the facility from an energy perspective.\nThe carbon impact here was less\nover-Largely because the embodied\ncarbon\nof the existing city hall was taken out of the equation.\nThe two points I would have around that are that\nthe facilities that we're proposing for\nwould be as low carbon as we can\npossibly make within the technology that we have now, which is\nusing things like mass timber, looking at other systems to look\nat decreasing the embodied carbon.\nOr sorry, from the beginning of the construction.\nThe operational carbon is about creating facilities that are incredibly\nefficient.\nI think Mary's going to share some graphs at the end of the presentation.\nWe'll talk about the actual energies- ... at city hall.\nAnd as an architect, I will tell you that it's staggering.\nI haven't seen a figure like that before.\nBut not to thunder,\nit is impressive.\nFrom a resiliency standpoint,\nwe're looking at as much resilience as we can.\nWhen you are doing a police station, you have to meet\na seismic level or an earthquake resistance level of what's called Level 4.\nThat means that in the event of an earthquake,\neveryone leaves the building during the earthquake, and the police can go right\nback in and continue operation because they need to.\nWith the civic campus,\nwe decided that we were going to aim for Level 3,\nwhich enabled everyone to get out of the building safely, which is required by\ncode. But the building is not a throwaway when you're done.\nSo that your investment in facility right now is one\nthat survives an earthquake, needs some repairs, but it's not we're\nscraping the site kind of condition.\nBy comparison, the current city hall has had seismic\nupgrades, but it is to a Level 2, which means that everybody gets out\nsafely, but the building is done. There's no repairing.\nSo keeping that in mind in terms of the overall resilience.\nAnd then resilience is not just about earthquake resistance, it's\nalso about energy performance and the opportunities for solar\npanels and battery systems and all of that.\nThis system gave the most opportunity for that.\nFinancial stewardship. There's a lot of ways to look at budget and\nfinancial stewardship. We took the approach of this is a way to\nmeet the goals that we had outlined for the least amount of long-term costs.\nAnd so of the options that we were presenting, this option actually comes with\nthis.\nFrom an accessibility standpoint, when we initially started the\nconcept design, looking at the\ncivic campus in particular, the existing city hall has\naccessibility challenges. It is designed in a very traditional manner, which means\nthe first floor is, if I remember correctly, about seven feet up.\nThat represents a pretty significant barrier for anybody who's in a wheelchair.\nCurrently, I'm sure as you all know, if you're using a wheelchair to go\ninto city hall, you have to go through the back door, find your way to an elevator,\nand come up midway through the building.\nIf city halls are intended to welcome every resident\nin the most\nthoughtful and compassionate, caring way, the existing building really\ndoesn't.\nIt's not to say that we didn't explore ways to solve that problem, but they came\nat significant expense or didn't really meet the intent.\nLastly, we talked about the potential community amenity that\nthese projects could create.\nAnd that's really about resident engagement.\nRight.\nAnd so the plaza existed in most of the options, and that's a\nfantastic opportunity for civic events, and it goes a long\nway towards bringing people downtown, which we'll talk about later when we talk\nabout downtown vitality. But this option\nallowed for the most potential public meeting\nspace within the civic campus lot.\nThe other options that we presented at the time were more about just\nadministration or trying to have public meeting space\nin the existing city hall only. Again, back to that notion of accessible.\nGo ahead and move forward at that point, unless there's any comments on it.\nOkay, so\nwe're going to take a little bit of time with this graphic.\nWe showed it to you back in November of 2024.\nBut this represents pretty much the fundamental challenge in\nterms of creating public facilities, or frankly, any\nfacility from a time and construction standpoint.\nSo what this graphic represents is the time scale\nfrom left to right, beginning from 1980 to\n2060.\nAnd what it is here to show you is the cost or impact of\nescalation, specifically construction escalation, over\ntime.\nSo we made a couple of modifications\nto this diagram since we last showed it to you.\nBefore I get to that, let me explain the diagram a little bit.\nFrom the orange dot in the middle that represents today, moving backward\nin time, the numbers that are provided are\nusing what is called the Engineer News Record.\nBasically, they track escalation over time.\nSo it's the actual escalation for construction that has\nhappened over that time. From the orange dot to\nthe right, that represents 6% of escalation\nper year, which is the current going rate.\nWhen you talk to a contractor or a construction estimator,\nthat's the number that they use when they're trying to figure out how much a\nproject is going to cost in the future.\nSo the change that we made is that when\nwe first presented this to you, we didn't know which option council was going to\nchoose. So we just picked a number, and it was 200 million, and that was\nour-Baseline number to show how the escalation\nis going to change. We've now changed the numbers to reflect\nthe option that we chose and the cost of what that said.\nThe other thing that we have done is that the\nlarge blue dot in the middle that says 2027,\nif we had started the project\nDecember of 2024, the bid date for\nconstruction would have been in 2027, and the cost of the\nproject would have been\n188. The\norange dot next to it represents the escalation that's\ngoing to happen for us to actually get the project if we started\ntoday. And I want to pause here just for a second.\nAnd Mark, we chose that 2029 number both from\nwhat the design team and construction team needs, but also potential\nfunding timeline. Is that correct?\nThat's correct.\nGreat.\nSo can I just clarify?\nYes, please.\nThe 2029, when Ian says starting today, he doesn't mean\nstarting construction today.\nYeah.\nHe means starting the process of full design to construction documents today.\nYes. Thanks, Mary. So the giant orange dot in the middle that says\ntoday is if we bid the project today, which of course we\ncan't because we need time to design.\nThe last thing I want to point out is the small three dots to the left\nrepresent the past opportunities that the city has\nhad to\ndo facilities\nmaster plans.\nI bring this every meeting.\nOther times, the city has stepped up to the line and stepped away.\nAnd so considering the amount of money that you're considering\nspending, that's how much that same money would've been back in\n1988.\n1988.\nSorry.\n2015.\n2015.\nThe last comment I'll make is that because escalation is moving\nat 6% per year, that means 5% per month.\nAnd so when you look at the lower orange dot for 2029, it's\n1.05 million per month of escalation passed.\nYou mean point.\nYeah, point. 0.5.\n0.5.\nsaid 5%. Sorry.\nThat would be very expensive.\nMy fault. It's 0.5. But it still represents a really\nsignificant number.\nCan I ask a question-\nYes, please\n... before we move on from that?\nYes.\nDo you feel like the current environment will make that number\nchange potentially? Or is this average over time through all these\ndifferent things, and so it's not likely to change much, or what?\nIt's a crystal ball.\nYeah.\nWhat I will tell you is that there was another graph that we didn't bring, I\napologize, but it shows the arc of the escalation\nfrom when the Engineering News-Record started calculating it from,\nI'm going to get this wrong, it's either 1912 or 1915. Right?\nAnd there's only two times that the number went negative.\nMm-hmm.\nOnce was the Great Recession\nand once was the Great Depression.\nMm-hmm.\nAs much as you want negative escalation for your project, there\nare other consequences-\nSure\n... on those scenarios.\nWe're in a moment of\nhigh volatility, right? And so I\nthink that\nwe're holding at 6%, but you can hit a\npocket of time relative to the market where you have spikes.\nOkay.\nA good example is the last five weeks or so,\nwith the energy volatility that we've had.\nThat's kind of what I was getting at.\nYes.\nYeah.\nRight. So there's always risk.\nOkay.\nThe fundamental rule is it never goes down.\nIt may flat line a little bit, but it doesn't go down.\nOkay.\nOkay.\nI want to pause for questions here because I think this is central to\na lot of the scenarios that we're talking about.\nIs there anything unclear about this overall idea about the escalation?\nYeah. Ian, just a quick question. The diagram you showed had\ncivic campus on the south side and police on the north, and we\ntalked about flipping that.\nMm-hmm.\nI suspect that does not materially affect the cost.\nBut is that a bad assumption or an okay one?\nNo, I think that's an okay assumption.\nOkay.\nwill get to some benefits. I guess it doesn't matter.\nYou sure?\nYeah. Thank you.\nOkay.\nYeah, the original plan that was presented to us was the other way around, and the\ncouncil said would it make more sense to have city hall on the south side for, I\nthink, for sun and\nenergy.\nFor sun and one of the options included a future\nparking garage, which we didn't go with.\nBut that was part of the rationale.\nOkay.\nMm-hmm. Other thoughts or questions? Yeah.\nThe thing not shown on this slide is the change in our\nability to pay for these things.\nSure.\nI'm\nwell aware of the fact that revenue\nhasn't gone up 6% a\nyear or so.\nRight.\nIt's separating farther.\nYeah.\nBut still, that's also not shown, and so that creates\nanother factor-\nYes\n... and it happens over time.\nYeah. And there's another point, and I'll bring it up later, is\nthat if the construction escalation is at\n6% average,\nconsumer price index is only at 2.8 or between three and\nfour normally. So public perception of what something\nshould cost is out of whack because the escalation is\nmoving at double the rate.\nFor construction.\nFor construction.\nYeah.\nAnd so when you talk about talking to the community about funding,\ninherently everyone thinks that construction costs way too much because it\ndoesn't match their day-to-day inflation over time.\nSo I'll bring that up\nagain.Okay. I'm going to go ahead and move\nforward. We can come back to this diagram if it's helpful.\nOkay. So we have a series of implementation strategies.\nAnd we're going to start with\nthe common impacts of the whole vision being\nfinished. And that is both the civic campus\nand the police station have been built on Madison with a plaza.\nAnd so when that is complete, whenever,\nwhatever sort of sequence that happens,\nwe've established the 100-year Madison Avenue vision to move a central civic hub\ndowntown. For those of you who don't know, it has been a 100-year\nvision to make Madison a major pedestrian thoroughfare\nfrom the gates of campus down to the river, and that the\ncivic heart of the city is located at the Mocade Lawn.\nAnd it's been in different spots, depending on which version of that plan has\nexisted, but this actually puts it square\non Madison. It also puts it at the gateway position to downtown.\nSo if someone's coming from campus to the river, the first thing that they hit when\nthey get to downtown is a civic idea.\nThe next is that the project contributes to downtown vitality, the daily activity\nfrom employees, visitors, and civic functions.\nWhen we talk about civic functions, you have residents who are coming to this\nfacility both to seek services, but also to use\nthe further down point of gathering spaces and\nattending civic events.\nWe maintain public safety and city administration at the center of the community.\nWe haven't relocated to some other location.\nOther communities have found cheaper land outside of city limits, or not\noutside city limits, but outside downtown cores.\nThis keeps it as sort of vital to downtown.\nWe've created opportunities for public gathering space and civic events in the\ndowntown core, which again, brings people here, who then when they finish\nwith that, they go shopping. They go down, grab a bite to eat, grab a cup of\ncoffee.\nOne thing that has happened between when we last spoke and now\nis that you've had the Downtown Vitality Strategic Task\nForce, and they have been looking at what the opportunities are\nto bring more vitality to downtown, and I think that's\nsomewhat timely because I believe these goals were just presented to you recently.\nWe've sort of gone back and looked at those and seen how these projects sort of\nplug into that.\nThey plug in directly because some of the goals are, \"Hey, let's do the\ncivic campus downtown, let's do the police station downtown.\"\nBut there are some that are less tangential or sorry, more tangential than\nothers.\nThere's a desire for an economic boost, right?\nKeeping the\nstaff downtown to be able to support businesses during lunch hours and things\nlike that, both for city hall staff and also\nfor the police. That's a direct economic\nboost.\nAlso when there are community events, that you're bringing more people\ndowntown, it's the same thing.\nOn that topic of economic boost, one of the other goals within the task\nforce is housing.\nMost housing, if not all housing, even\naffordable housing, is still driven primarily by private development.\nPrivate development is looking for spaces that are vital,\nthe old adage of location, location, location-\nMm.\nBecause it helps them keep their vacancy rates down.\nSo the more active downtown can be and more desirable to live, the more\nlikely you can encourage that investment to house.\nA lot of the downtown goals also focus\non quality of street experience. What happens with the infrastructure, how do\nwe improve the sidewalks, the curbs, lighting, all the things that go\nalong the street scene.\nThe opportunity to do the plaza first and set the standard\nthat the rest of the street might follow, I think is a pretty\ngreat opportunity.\nThe notion of social infrastructure.\nIf anyone was able to go to the\n2022 League of Oregon Cities keynote,\nEric Klinenberg, who is the author of \"Palaces for the People.\"\nMm.\nHe talks a lot about-\nOne of my favorite books.\nAbsolutely. It's great.\nHe talks a lot about\nhow we are slowly losing what we call social infrastructure,\nand it's really what we call third spaces. Mark, you and I have talked about that.\nIt's the spaces that people can interact where they don't have to spend a dime,\nright? Libraries are one of the last examples of that.\nHe makes a case in his book and in the keynote that he gave, that not\nonly are those things nice to have for a community, they're actually\ninherently needed within social\nresilience. So the example that the book starts out with is, as\nCarolyn would probably know, is when there is\na community crisis,\nthe communities that do the best are when the neighbors go next door and knock on\nit and make sure that that person's okay.\nWe need more opportunities for people to interact, to build relationships,\nand that fosters a stronger, more resilient community.\nPlaying back to our project, notion of the plaza,\nnotion of the public meeting spaces within City Hall, those are\nin direct support of that idea.\nLastly, sustainability, and it dovetails with the final bullet on the slide,\nis that\nthe goal for sustainable development downtown, the city has the\nopportunity to set the standard with what those projects can be,\nboth in terms of quality, energy efficiency, opportunities\nfor solar panels,\nand\njust reinforcing that message to private development that may happen in\ndowntownSo\nif those are common to the end result, these are common to\nwhat the implementation looks like, and if there\nare delays in time, because that's really what we're\nfocusing on. So as I mentioned before, we have construction cost\nescalation calculated at 6% per year or\n0.5 per\nmonth.\nTo get an apples to apples comparisons along these strategies,\nwe've used a time scale of eight years between projects if we\nphase.\nAnd we've done that for a couple of reasons.\nOne,\nmake sure I get this right.\nYou're probably not going to start the second project until\nyou've completed the first. So that's at minimum, that's three years there.\nYou're likely probably going to have another funding conversation once you've\ndone that. And so that's another year or two.\nAnd so all of a sudden you're five to 10 in your\npotential delay. And\nit's an arbitrary number to a certain degree.\nCouncil can decide to do whatever they want, but for the purposes of this\nevaluation, that's what we've used across the scale.\nDepending on how long you delay, there are other\nfactors that can jeopardize final implementation.\nLong delays can overlap council elections,\nright? You have an opportunity to work together, to get these projects\ndone.\nIt's not to say that a future council won't have similar objectives,\nbut it's a shift, it's a change, and it's ultimately a\nrisk to whether something gets fully implemented or not.\nMultiple funding asks can lead to voter fatigue depending on what the\nfunding solutions are. The more times that you go\nback, the more difficult the conversation can become.\nAnd I'll talk a little bit about that to get deeper into it.\nIn any of these options, City Hall staff need to relocate\nbecause fundamentally City Hall is being removed in the\noptions, and so City Hall staff has to go someplace while that's\nhappening. The cost and\nduration of the relocation is impacted by which option you choose.\nIn any option where the police station is delayed,\nresilient temporary facilities need to be created.\nLaw enforcement building is in really dire straits, and so\nmoving the police to a temporary facility has\npretty significant cost implications because a\ntemporary construction for police requires a lot more\ntechnical construction. They have things like holding cells and evidence\nmanagement that just is more expensive to build.\nLastly, over time, building and regulatory code changes\ncan occur, which can drive costs that you can't\nanticipate.\nWhen we were evaluating if both projects are moving\ntogether or they stagger, we've gone and talked to\ncontractors to understand what the impacts and\nefficiencies might be for the benefits going\ntogether or independently.\nSo if projects move together, a single project has less startup\nmobilization and shutdown costs.\nWhat that means is every time a project starts up, they need to bring in the job\ntrailer, they need to get crews on board.\nThere are costs inherent to that. And they're\nnot insignificant, but they're worth sort of mentioning.\nLarger projects have a greater economy of scale.\nYou get greater efficiencies over a larger project than if you have smaller\nor two smaller.\nThe process of procuring, managing\nsubcontractors on a job, if you only have to do it once, it's easier.\nIf you have a bigger project, you can move and stagger workflows around.\nA single project has greater efficiency, general contractor supervision,\ntemporary safety and security.\nThese are the day-to-day management of\nrelative to security, onsite management,\nI should say, because they're ability to share equipment, material staging.\nMaterial staging particular is one on an urban site we have to be pretty\nthoughtful about.\nAvoid duplicate costs for tapping utilities and doing street right of way work.\nIf you've completed one project and you've connected to the water main, and all of\na sudden you start the next one, you've got to go dig up the sidewalk and do it\nagain.\nAnd then lastly, there's only one disruption to the downtown\nneighborhood. Projects of these scales are going to impact traffic in\nthe area,\nand contractors are really great about managing noise, but there is\ndisruption overall.\nOkay, so we have four implementation strategies, and I'm going to\nwalk through the pros and cons of each.\nAnd then at the bottom is\ntotal cost.\nSo\nin the case where we move both projects together,\nCivic Campus staff return after a short-term lease.\nThey're out of downtown for the least amount of time.\nPolice are able to remain in the law enforcement building while construction is\ncompleted.\nYou address the two aging facilities simultaneously, reducing the\nlong-term facility risk of various issues.\nAllows shared infrastructure site development efficiencies, as we were just talking\nabout, between the two projects.\nImmediately implements downtown vitality task force goals.\nThe things that have been just brought to you can come to fruition much\nquicker and support downtown faster.\nAvoids future construction escalation, which is the topic we were just\ntalking about.\nAllows for a new approach to underground parking garage.\nI'll get to that in a second.\nAnd then this is the least total cost to implement.\nIf you look at the full picture of council vision, this is\nthe most cost-effective way to get it done.\nThe con here is that it is the highest initial\ncapital cost.\nSo parking. I mentioned here,\nallows for new\napproach to underground parking.\nSo initially, when we brought this vision to\ncouncil,\nbecause we were designing a public safety building, the biggest challenge to public\nsafety is they have a lot of vehicles, and they have to find a place to put them.\nIt can take significant amount of acreage, as John and I both know from working on\nlots of public safety buildings, to accommodate their fleets.\nAnd so when we designed the public safety building, initially, we ended up going\ntwo and a half to three floors below grade\nto create below grade parkings.\nThat's not the most expensive effort\noverall, and given how tight these sites are,\nit's pretty inefficient.\nOnce you start to ramp down and try to get multiple ramps going down, you eat up a\nlot of that square footage. When we realized that we\ncould potentially have both projects moving in at once, the opportunity is to\ndo a larger,\nshallower parking structure that goes all the way underneath Madison\nAvenue and ties Civic Campus together.\nYou wouldn't do this type of approach piece.\nIt would cause a level of complexity that would just drive costs up.\nAnd so the benefit here is that you likely have enough\nspace for the secure parking needs of public safety\nfolks.\nWe also have the potential for additional parking that is outside of that secure\nzone that could be separate. Whether that's for staff, for the public,\nthat's all for\nyou to determine.\nBut of this implementation option one,\nwe can sort of potentially pull off this scenario.\nAnd so, this is\nbasically what that looks like\nafter everything's done at once, and this is what you get.\nNow, a couple of caveats here.\nThis is not what the buildings will look like.\nWe haven't designed them yet. Any\ndesign of a public building, once the project moves forward, we work really\nhard to do community engagement, to engage the community in how these buildings\nshould look and feel.\nSo we needed to provide an idea or a vision to council and\nthe public just to get a sense of something.\nSo if you don't like the window pattern, it's okay.\nIt's not going to be this at the end of the day.\nBut what you do see here is that potential for these\ntwo projects working together with the plaza space in between\nand that further connection on Madison.\nThis is looking down towards the river and the OB development that's\nunderway right now.\nSo implementation strategy number two\nsays if you build the public station first, and you delay the Civic\nCampus. And again, we're talking of a delay just for the point of numbers of\neight.\nWhatever council decides at that point is up to you, but eight\nyears is the benchmark that we're doing this.\nThat's it.\nSo the benefits here is that you've dealt with the public safety building first,\nwhich is pretty critical relative to operational\neffectiveness for them and resilience for police services.\nYou have a lower initial capital investment because you're only building one of the\nbuildings.\nYou maintain at least one civic anchor while you're\ngetting these facility needs solved.\nIt allows the city to phase the major capital investments over time\nand improves emergency resilience through getting the 911 facility\ninto a new building sooner.\nThe cons are is that your civic vision is only half\nrealized.\nCity administration moves out of downtown for an\nundetermined amount of time, whether it's eight years or whatever the length of\ntime this ends up being. They're someplace else,\nand the community is going someplace else besides downtown during\nthat time period.\nThere's a risk that the full Civic Hub\nvision becomes more difficult to achieve because of the delay risks that we\ntalked about earlier. There's a missed opportunity for\nthe shared site efficiencies, construction efficiencies that we talked about.\nWe're now\ndelaying parts of the Downtown Vitality Task Force goals\nbecause we don't have that civic space that's going to\nencourage people to come in.\nAnd lastly,\nbecause city hall staff are\nin a lease condition\nsomeplace else, you have higher lease costs.\nSo the overall cost to implement this one total is\n$267 million. It's $116.6\nmillion for the police station when you first build it,\nbut then because of that escalation, Civic Campus now costs\n$151 million to build.\nCan I ask a detail question?\nYes, please.\nJust because I'm super curious.\nYeah.\nYou talk about this brilliant idea of having the garage go all the way across.\nSure.\nHow does building them one at a time affect that?\nBecause you can\nonly build half, right?\nYou don't really have that option anymore.\nOkay.\nYeah.I guess the add-on to that is the\nsecure parking need for the police wouldn't fit in a\none-story parking garage-\n... under the PD.\nRight.\nSo they wouldn't have their fleet needs meet K1.\nBut would it fit under the police and the plaza?\nIt could potentially.\nThat's something that would need to be studied.\nMm.\nI think the reality of\nthe plaza's function goes best with the Civic Campus.\nAnd so\neven if you, to your point, Council Elmes, if you built\ntwo-thirds of that parking, building that last third gets really challenging\nin sort of making those connections to it.\nBut you believe you would meet the parking\nrequirements for the police station?\nWe don't even see. We have to verify that.\nYeah.\nSo\nthe new public safety building is built, the street remains the\nsame.\nThe idea being that the remaining facilities, the buildings\nthat we're in, is no longer occupied by city staff.\nThey've now moved to another location.\nYou\nreally don't need these facilities anymore from a city\nstandpoint.\nWhether you decide to try and lease them or something, that's on you.\nBut having that capability to use that site as staging\nand not have to maintain these buildings anymore suggests that you might just\ntake them down. And so you have a\npartially realized vision.\nWell, and also just to add to that,\nour direction as staff is to construct\nthe council's direction, which is two buildings at some point in time.\nAnd so by taking the buildings down, you're setting the stage for that to be able\nto happen\nmore efficiently when the time comes for the second building to happen.\nAbsolutely.\nYeah.\nQuestion. Where does the staging occur in just building the police\nbuilding?\nWe could have it on the back, some on the backside of the law\nenforcement building or the police station building, but you've got your\ntransportation hub is there.\nIt can happen in the plaza, but you're going to be working on\nboth buildings and then do the plaza last.\nIt's a question for the contractor overall.\nYou're not going to obviously impact\n6th because of the train going by. You don't want to impact 5th because\nit's kind of a major through repair.\nIt's going to be a difficult site regardless in either option.\nI think there is advantage to stage-\nYes\n... on the right-hand side there.\nRight.\nRight where we're sitting here.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nGood point.\nYeah.\nBut then the question arises, if you phase it, where do\nyou stage for building the second half?\nRight.\nWhichever building it is that comes first.\nExactly. Now you have a problem.\nYeah. Basically, staging is going to be a problem whatever you do.\nWhichever .\nSo, implementation strategy three is you reverse\nthat. You do the Civic Campus first, and you\nphase the police station.\nIn this case,\nyou're reinforcing the civic presence and identity downtown.\nCivic staff return to downtown sooner.\nIt improves administration efficiency and service delivery for the city operations\nwhen they're downtown, closer to where people are.\nSupports downtown vitality through daily staff and visitor\nactivity. Again, more people coming to the building.\nEstablish as part of the Civic Campus framework,\nall of it, and then lower initial capital costs similar\nto phasing the police station.\nInitial\ncapital costs.\nInitial capital costs. Appreciate that.\nThe cons here is the police department relocates for an undetermined amount of\ntime. As we talked about, the longer portion of the building is very\nchallenging from a resilient standpoint.\nThe renovation of temporary public safety facility is expensive, as we mentioned.\nIf you try to move the police someplace temporarily, you're building a lot more\nexpensive construction to house them in that location.\nThe full civic hub vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of\nthe delay\nrisks that we talked about.\nAnd the civic vision remains incomplete for an extended period\nof time. Missed opportunity to strengthen community interaction with public\nsafety. So as architects who design public\nsafety facilities,\none of the things that we are often trying to do within municipal police\nstations is create opportunities for police to\ninteract with the public outside of a 911 call.\nThat is a huge part of relations between residents\nand public safety staff.\nAnd anything that we can do that encourages the\npolice to be walking to shops downtown to grab lunch-\nYeah\n... in between shifts, whatever it is that we can do to\nnormalize interactions there, we look for that opportunity wherever we\ncan. Because we've paired these two projects together, however they're\nimplemented, there's a lot of potential for that to happen here.\nQuestion. So this, the cost does include the renovation of the\ntemporary public-\nThis does not.\nDoes not.\nDoes not. This is just the cost to implement this vision.\nOkay.\nNone of these include any sort of lease, long-term or short-term.\nOkay. So I think it's an important point to\nrelocating\nadministrative staff temporarily is one cost X, yet\nrelocating police and building the supporting structure for that\nis multiple X.\nYes.\nOkay.\nSure.\nAre these numbers in\nthe second number on that, is there anyAttempt to\nadjust for inflation. If you assume, obviously money is\nnot going to be...\nInflation's going to happen.\nRight.\nSo in real dollar terms, when you build the second one,\n185 is-\nRight\n... is current dollars then, and you make no assumptions about\nactual inflation-\nNo\n... between now and then.\nSo the numbers below, the first number in the\nparentheses is what it costs to build the Civic Campus in\n2029.\nRight.\nRight. The second number, the 185.9, is the\ncost of building the police station in\n2037.\n37. Yeah.\nWhich that includes the escalation to 2037.\nIt includes the 6%\nescalation.\nGot it.\nBut it does not include any adjustment to that in the\ncost of-\nInflation\n... the 2, 3, 4% inflation.\nNo.\nSo that's, in a sense, both of these are sort of an\noverstatement\nof the real cost of money.\nI challenge that a little bit.\nI mean, Harry's-\nSaid it a little bit before, I'm not an economist, so I can't\nweigh too far into that. But ultimately, as I said before,\nyou're still outstripping the pace of what the consumer price is.\nRight.\nRight?\nSix. It's that 6% that we talked about before.\nYeah. But\njust for clarity,\nthe 185 includes the 6%. It doesn't\ninclude any adjustment to somebody looking\nat that, that inflation has done, is responsible for a piece\nof that, so to speak.\nThat's correct.\nOkay.\nRight.\nOkay.\nWell-\nAnd\nI recognize, you could make whatever assumption you wanted to make.\nInflation will be 3%, escalated will be 6%,\nand so the real increase is something-\nRight\n... but it's all funny money numbers between here and there.\nThe clarity there, Paul, is that\nif you're trying to gauge what somebody feels that number\nis, right?\nRight. And I'm not disputing that at all.\nRight.\nI'm just thinking for,\nin terms of actually paying for it in real dollars.\nThat is the cost that the contractor would say you're going\nto pay in 20-\nIn 20-\n2037.\n2037.\nYeah.\nTo build that police station.\nHeck.\nYeah. Okay.\nIn eight years, $185 million sounds cheap.\nThat'd be great news for us.\nI think\nmaybe a slightly different take on that.\nYeah.\nThe question for me is that,\nit would be nice to know, easy enough to\ncalculate, how much of the 185.9\nmillion was because of the delay.\nThe escalation.\nYeah, because I think the\ncommon intuition might be, we'll build one now, then\nbuild one later,\nand what's the diff?\nSure.\nAnd I think that's the point that I think is important is\nthat the cost of delay is costing a lot\nmore than you imagine.\nYes.\nYeah. And I think that it might be useful to highlight the-\nRight.\nSo in this strategy, the $185.9\namount is for the police station.\nI know. Right.\nSo go back to slide strategy two.\nThat's 116 million if you build it now.\nRight.\nSo the difference between 116, and I've already forgot the other number,\n185 is that.\nYeah. I mean, I don't know. It's clean subtraction, but it's fine.\nIt's close enough. I think that's the point I presume Chair's making.\nSo-\n... for us to get to those numbers,\nwe took the 116.6 and multiplied it times\n6% per year for eight years.\nRight.\nWhich got us to the\n185.9.\nYeah.\nAnd so likewise,\nin\nwhat we will call current, the police station would cost,\nI'm sorry, the Civic Campus would cost-\n94\n... and in the other scenario.\nIt would cost 151.\nSo like 40,\n60 something.\nYeah. She's roughly 60,000. 60 million,\nsorry.\n60 million.\nAll right. Well, yeah, I mean, it's 6% compounded by a year or so.\nIt's going to be a big deal.\nIt's going to be big.\nI just think it's good from a communication point of view, because there's an\nintuition that\nif\nI just wait, if I just stay things out, it's going to be better\nsomehow.\nMm-hmm.\nAs opposed to\nat 6% per year.\n8%. What was the number, six?\n6%.\n6%.\nFor eight years.\nOkay. For eight years.\nYeah, it's going to\nbe a significant\neffect every year you wait.\nDefinitely.\nYou can't just wait a year. Well, I mean, that's your point.\nWe can try to wait a year.\nRight.\nBut anyway, I think it's important to call that out.\nYeah. And I think you can look back at that graphic that we showed initially that\nshows if we had started in 2027, if we were getting in\n2027 for both projects at 188, if we're bidding in\n2029 for both projects, it's now 201.\nYeah.\nYeah. So\nbasically more than double.\nSo a lot to hear was we were talking about sort of a phased\napproach, that there's the cost implication on it, and then\nthere's the risk to whether or not you're going to have the full vision.\nRight.\nBecause in addition toYou're\nbuilding one, and then you're going to come back and you hopefully have a funding\nsource that the public supports. So as I mentioned\nwhen I started, this is over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time with\ncommunity engagement and working with communities to get to\nfunding these projects. And obviously I'm not the funding expert, but I'm helping\nwith messaging, communication, understanding of the\nprojects, and et cetera.\nAnd so when you're, and we're not saying this is your approach, but if you're\ngoing for a bond, which a lot of communities do,\nyou're always going to have people who are fantastic supporters of\nspecific items of any kind and they'll support everything.\nThen you have people who are the opposite end of that spectrum who will never pay\nfor anything.\nRight.\nAnd there's a certain percentage always of either end of that spectrum.\nIn the middle are the people who you're trying to communicate what the need\nis and is the cost reasonable.\nRight.\nWhat often is the trap\nis that people go out for a bond.\nThere's a number that's put out there, and it doesn't pass.\nAnd I'm not saying this would happen to you, but it's something that's relatively\ncommon. And the community says, \"That's just way too expensive.\"\nNow you go back out a year later, and you've somehow\naddressed the community's concern.\nYou've pared that number back, but you've lost a year of buying power.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so now you can't even build what that original vision is.\nWe've been working with another community that I won't mention.\nThey've tried four times to do a public safety book\nthat includes a fire station and a police. Four times.\nMm.\nFirst time was like $6 million. The last time they tried was\n$15 million. The version that we did with them was almost $32 million.\nWow.\nAnd there's other complications within.\nBut ultimately,\nevery time you have to go to the community, you're finding those ends of the\nspectrum. Trying to find the reasonable argument in the middle.\nAnd every time takes time, energy,\ninvestment of staff or council to\nmove these projects forward. So when you get to that\neight-year mark that we're talking about here, you're going to go through\nthat process again, and hopefully you've got the same\nsupport from the community that you did when you did it the first time.\nAnd so there's a risk then.\nOkay. So last scenario.\nSo the\ncampus will be built,\nand same sort of conversation about the\nexisting building and the\nOne more IP.\nAnd thank you.\nThose have been removed for the same reasons.\nSo the last strategy is that you do nothing right now,\nand\nyou delay both projects to whatever timeframe you\ndecide. But to keep things apples to apples, we said you delay eight\nyears. But really, it's unknown.\nYou don't know what might happen. So the\npros are you don't have any immediate out-of-pocket capital\nexpenditures.\nBut the cons are, the biggest one being the construction escalation.\nThe city abandons downtown for an undetermined amount of time.\nThe remodeling space for public safety is expensive, like we talked\nabout.\nYou now have somewhat of a misalignment with your Downtown Vitality Task\nForce goals.\nDoes not address the long-term facility management.\nAs a reminder, these were the priority projects.\nSo all the projects that needed to come behind these ones are also now\nfrozen.\nYou have loss of momentum. You've been working on\nthis topic for significant amount of time.\nOther citywide facility strategy projects are further delayed, just mentioned\nthat. This is the highest cost to implement of all the options\nbecause you're paying the most escalation over time.\nAnd then you have the highest long-term lease costs because you don't\nknow how long the city's going to have these lease costs.\nAll right.\nSo\nback to our graph, or diagram.\nWhat we've done is we've taken the\nscenario number one, which is you build everything.\nThat's the orange dot at the bottom.\nAssumes you're bidding the project in 2029.\nIt's $211 million.\nOption two, where you delay city campus, is the one, the dot that's furthest on the\nupper left, and that's at $268 million.\nThe option three, which is delay the police station,\nis in the middle, is $281 million. And\nthe last option is the\n$337 million. Again, assuming that you're waiting eight years, it should really\ngo down.\nAt that point, from 237 onwards,\nit's $20 million a year in escalation for\nthe cost of these projects. So going back to looking at our three blue\ndots on the left, you're kind of back to that scenario,\nwhere we talked about it, but we're going to pause it for some\nduration of time.\nI'll leave it here just for a\nminute if there's any questions.\nI was thinking you were leaving here for dramatic\neffect.\nThat's it.\nAll right. So in summary, we've given you four\ndifferentAvenues or implementation strategies for\nthis. We've talked about the pros and cons relative to that.\nThe only other thing that I might add here is that\nwhen I first had the opportunity to talk to you, the thing that we\nwere most potentially excited about these projects is the potential\ncatalyst that they could bring, particularly with what OB\nwas doing at the other end of Madison.\nAnd as an architect who works on civic buildings,\nI'm incredibly excited about the potential of either of these, or both of\nthese projects moving at once with the potential economic\ncatalyst that these projects moving with that credit growth.\nIt's not often that we often get to work on one project,\npolice station, city hall, or something along those lines.\nThe potential to do two projects that have synergy and relationship\ntogether,\nas Mark said, this is sort of once in a generational\nopportunity.\nHopefully this has given you enough information to think about.\nAnd I think this is where I hand it over to\nMary.\nWe've been asking questions all along, which is great.\nIs there any before we move to the next piece?\nWe will be able to see these slides for\nthe-\nYes.\nI don't have to watch the video.\nNo, we can email them out, but they'll be in the minutes.\nPaul,\nit makes sense. Paul, thank you.\nSure.\nI shouldn't have said all of it. There was one piece at the end that I didn't\nquite follow, the abandoned downtown.\nI feel like\nit appeared that the number\nassumed that the cost of\nbuilding facilities somewhere else-\nYeah\n... would be the same as the downtown project,\nbut it would be a fundamentally different project.\nYou're right. If we were not doing these projects and we're doing\nsomething else somewhere else, those are not the funds.\nAnd I'm not sure who's sitting behind me, but I think that's a terrible idea.\nI should be clear about that. I'm not suggesting\nthat we should go down that road, but I just want to make sure we're understanding\nthe picture.\nSure. Our purview, and I just want to reiterate it,\nis with the projects in front of us, what does it cost to\nimplement just them?\nYeah.\nAs the architects, we don't own these costs of what you do-\nYeah\n... outside of that picture.\nWell, and also a potential clarification, if I'm understanding your\nquestion or concern correctly,\nit's called abandoned downtown because we're leaving for a significant period of\ntime.\nOh, I see.\nThe goal would still be to eventually come back-\nGot it. Okay\n... and build it in this way.\nWell, then in theory, there's a fifth option, which is-\nWe own it\n... we're not going to have city facilities.\nRight.\nPaul, could we condemn the county building and move out there?\nYeah. I think obviously the thing that makes this at least a little bit more\nattractive than that is you'd be buying land if you-\nYeah\n... went forward. So there's additional costs to us.\nIf I can play just devil's advocate for a moment here.\nIf we're building two things at once instead of one,\nis there\nplenty of contractor\ncapacity for doing this? I\nlook at people building subdivisions,\nPonderosa Ridge. They were sort of\nphasing that, I think, as much as anything to manage\nstaff, employee costs, and so on.\nI'm just curious,\nwe're not going to run into a case that we've got a limited pool of\nbuilders who can take on both of these at once.\nYeah.\nThat we're going to risk inflating a cost because of\na small bidder pool.\nRight. I can't tell you what it'll be like in 2029-\nSure\n... when these projects will bid. If you were to ask me today, I'd\npoint you to the number of phone calls I get from contractors right now asking\nme what I'm working on.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's a lot of\ncapacity, if I could buy a term, or panic, in the\ncontracting marketplace looking for sizable projects.\nThere's not a lot going on in the state right now.\nWe've finished some really big work, obviously the Portland Airport being one of\nthose projects.\nBut the\nlarger construction firms that would work on a project like this, or\neven one of them,\nthey're all looking for work.\nMm-hmm.\nThe other things you can start to look at are the trajectory of school\nbonds. Usually those things go in waves.\nThere's not a lot of housing being built right now, either\nmarket rate or affordable. Affordable is really mostly what's being built, but not\nlarge enough amounts.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's not a lot of commercial offices being built because of the lags from the\npandemic.\nMm-hmm.\nSo lots of the other traditional markets for construction are a little\nbit slow.\nMm-hmm. Okay.\nI think the thing I'll add, because in prepping for this, we did talk to a lot\nof contractors. Contractors we talked to were so intrigued with the idea of\ndoing these together and all the efficiencies, as Ian had that slide\npreviously. But it's how they could stagger trades and work with the different\ntrades on the project. So there's a lot of advantages of\nhaving someone be putting windows on one side and then immediately roll to the\nother building and not have to leave for another job site.\nSo you have a lot of control over who's working and how they work together when you\ndo them together.\nWe have a virtual question?\nYeah. Councilor Bowden Allison has the line open right now.\nOh, good. Allison?\nHello, can you hear me okay?\nLoud and clear.\nThank you.\nSo my comment is more general, but I still wanted\nit to state it publicly.\nI am concerned about the land use\nconflict with the Downtown Vitality\nStrategy Task Force, their recommendations, and\nthe current\nlayout strategies that are being listed.\nAnd I know, again, recognizing that this topic is, more\ndirected at the funding mechanisms or\npairing buildings for\norder of construction. But I really do\nwant to keep going back towards that a\ninstitutional like control or civic inclusivity versus\ninstitutional control and secure\naccess needs are really not compatible\nwith the type of welcoming, open,\nshared, public, all of the buzzwords that we're looking for\nwith a revitalized civic campus. I just\ncan't see a world where\ndowntown can have the same\nwalkability, community gathering, social interaction, economic activity\nwhen there all of these civic structures and there's a law\nenforcement center directly across from it.\nI think it makes it a really hard\nsell to community members. And in addition to all\nof the other barriers that were carefully mentioned in what it\ntakes to get the community on board with a large capital\nproject that will likely require bond and voter approval.\nSo I want to bring that back to our conversation\nof\nthinking about how this land use is or is not compatible with the\nrecommendations from the task force, and how that\nwill look to voters who may or may not have to appro-- or\nwill have to approve if a bond is chosen as a funding\nmechanism.\nYeah. Alison,\nso you are concerned that having the police station\nacross from a place where we're trying to engage\na wide variety of people coming in and out\nis going to create an essential barrier just by,\nno offense to our police, we have great police, just by the essence of\na law enforcement building is going to make some people uncomfortable to\ngo into the other space or come through that space.\nWe're a block away.\nI will-\nRight now\n... I will speak for myself,\nand just note that others have conveyed to me\ndirectly, but I'm not going to speak for every single person.\nBut\nI definitely would have a deep discomfort\nin using a plaza\nfor, or even the open amphitheater that was in one of the previous\ndesigns, I don't even know if it's on the table anymore.\nBut having performances and community gatherings and\neven a farmers market with a law enforcement center where people are\nhaving the worst days of their lives, to me, doesn't\nreally\nmeet the walkability, economic activity, community\ngathering, land use plans that the civic\ncampus improvements and Madison Avenue Corridor\nideas we're trying to promote. So I'm not\ntrying to detract this conversation too much from it, which is why I've been\nwaiting to say something, but I want to keep bringing\nthat forward.\nWell, I appreciate your-\nYou see things from a different kind of lens.\nI see you see things from\nwhere we want our police to be. I've\ngone through a couple of chiefs now, and everyone says we want community\npolicing.\nRight.\nWe want to be part of the community.\nWe want to be interacting with the community, not with the current law\nenforcement building that's this big stone-\nBig old bunker\n... imposing structure or bunker.\nAnd I see this as an opportunity to move towards that\nidea of being part of the community, not being something of intimidation or\nmisery.\nPublic facing.\nYeah.\nI think it was in social infrastructure book where they set up basketball\ncourts at the back of the police-\nMm-hmm\n... station, so there were trying to a more\ninteraction. Have it be more like a normal other\nhuman beings.\nYeah.\nSo I agree with you.\nNormal people at jobs.\nYeah. I mean,\nso yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's also,\ncorrect me if I'm wrong, but more the trend is towards that\ncommunity interactive.\nSo it's more relational rather than this barrier between you and the public, is\nthat...?\nThat's kind of also what I feel like we're trying to go towards as a government,\nas just the City of Corvallis is I walk in\nand people are shocked the mayor's there. They were shocked when I was a counselor.\nIt's like, we're normal people. We're part of the community, and we should operate\nas part of the community. And I think-\nMm-hmm\n... police-\nIs an extension\n... the city government,\nour municipal court be part of that.\nIt's all part of the community and we all function together.\nIt's necessary.\nMm-hmm.\nIt's problem-oriented policing is, and community policing\nis, has\nfar, way ahead. We're way, I think\nour community is way ahead in that respect.\nAnd we've got the ideas about\npolice or a fear of police, that's\nnot anything we've ensured, of course, but\nto have a bunker like that, where's the front door on the-\nRight\n... police station right now? Who knows?\nSo that's-\nLet's try to bring us back on the topic today.\nAnd that's a good conversation, guys.\nSorry.\nNo.\nI'm looking at the clock, and I want to make sure that we have adequate time to\ndiscuss this.\nYeah.\nI do want to say, though,\nwhat we have now is a bunker, and trying to find the front door, I\nstruggled to find it.\nBut we\nare pretty privileged people.\nAnd I understand what Council Bowden is raising is\nnot everybody feels as comfortable as we do.\nAnd again, I do acknowledge that our police\ndo really good work. But the perception out there,\nand the perception is getting worse and worse and\nworse. I do think that that is going to come\nup in that design. Yeah, I think it's a valid point.\nAnd it's an absolute legitimate point, which we need to consider,\nespecially considering it's getting worse and worse and worse.\nSo now I feel bad that I cut you off. And we didn't move forward.\nSo if there's anything else that you wanted to point, you wanted to make there,\nnow's the time. Thank you for offering. No. Okay. All right.\nThen with that,\nyou guys have a lot of information.\nAnd\nhow do you get to a decision about which\nimplementation strategy you want to move forward on?\nThe city council has adopted the International Association of Public\nParticipation's planning guide to inform their engagement activities.\nGot the poster there on the wall right there.\nAnd within that guide is a sustainable decision framework to help\norganize information and inputs.\nI'm going to quote from the guide now, so I'm going to read from my page.\n\"The framework is especially helpful as a decision picks up\na political charge. As this occurs, interest usually\npulls into one of the four quadrants, yet decision-makers are\naccountable for balanced and lasting decisions that consider the whole\ncommunity in relation to budget, resources, environment, and\nequity.\nIn this case, the framework provides decision-makers with the means to\nbalance the input they receive to make the best long-term decision for\nthe community.\"\nSo the information that you've heard today, and frankly, over the life of the\nfacility investment work, are the data points to consider through\nthese framework lenses.\nWe pulled from the facility investment guiding principles that Ian mentioned at the\nbeginning and other policy direction, and we've compiled\na set of key areas for you to consider within\neach framework component as you work towards a decision.\nAnd then remember that for this exercise of the IAP2\nanalysis, you are comparing the options for\nimplementation strategies against each other.\nSo we've seen the four strategies, now\nthey compare against each other.\nSo let's take an example. Under technical is one of the arms.\nWe have construction efficiencies, which you heard a lot about today.\nSo how do four implementation strategies\ncompare on the ability to construct efficiently what the\ncouncil's direction is for the civic campus and police facility at this\npoint in time?\nSo you want to consider the construction management, the staging of materials,\nstaff collaboration opportunities, that parking garage design,\nand renovation of leased space to meet our service delivery\nneeds, and as we mentioned, especially important for police operations.\nThe facility investment guiding principles call for functional spaces\nthat are accessible, inclusive, and accommodate growth.\nSo how do the four options in your mind compare on achieving\nthese objectives?\nMoving to environment.\nA topic we've discussed in the past, and it came up again- This one ...\nis the subpar resiliency of City Hall and the LED, law\nenforcement.\nThe new buildings under consideration will have more robust\nresiliency than the current structures do.\nSo which implementation strategy or strategies meet the resiliency\nconcern that's been brought forward?\nThe Climate Action Plan, which is one of our guiding documents,\nin terms of policy direction,\nit calls for actions that will achieve other co-benefits in\naddition to greenhouse gas reductions, some of which are seen on\nthe list here.\nAnd then speaking of the big reveal on energy\nefficiency- Sorry ... I'm going to kick it over to Mark because I'm pouting that\nyou took my glory away. Are you ready for me to go to the next\nslide? Just a moment. Yeah. We've talked a lot about City\nHall, the space heaters, and leaky windows\nand all that sort of thing. And I really want to credit Scott\nDipod, our sustainability coordinator, and Abby Alexander, our innovation\nmanager. We actually have been able to dig some data, go through\nthe data, and look at what is our energy usage at the\nCity Hall building and compare that\nto some other facilities. So go ahead, Mary.\nSo here is a comparison of energy\nusage between the Kalapuya building on the left, that is the Benton\nCounty's\nnewly remodeled\nfacility out in Southwest Corvallis.\nYou have the law enforcement building and City Hall, and you can\nsee how much more energy City\nHall uses. That's on an annual basis, and you can see\nthe energy we're using at these different facilities.\nPurchased electricity, solar, and in the\nmagenta is natural gas.\nSo significantly more energy we're using on an annual basis at City\nHall.\nWhat's the square footage of each of those? Geographic segment.\nWhen you talk about square footage, it becomes even more dramatic.\nSo per square foot, the Kalapuya building- Per square foot ...\n33.7.\nCity Hall is 10X per square foot\nbecause the Kalapuya building is 2.7 times\nlarger than City Hall. Right.\nSo essentially, the power we use for just the City Hall\nbuilding would power the county's Kalapuya\nbuilding for 10 years.So that's\nsomething you can see a pretty dramatic impact we're having\non an ongoing basis.\nIt's those tall ceilings, drafty windows.\nRight. Yeah.\nIf I can just make a quick comment.\nSure.\nThis statistic is a standard energy use\nindex, and it's a standard metric for building efficiency.\nAnd one can look up\ntypical types of buildings, and they'll tell you here's about the range of what\nit should be. When people talk about a net zero energy building,\nthat EUI index is zero.\nMm-hmm.\nAs architects, we've done a couple of net zero buildings,\nothers in our sphere of work too.\nOkay. I'm going to go back to the IAP2 sustainable decision\nframework. Now we're talking about the economic piece.\nObviously, a major component of the economic lens is the positive\nconstruction, but it's not the only data point.\nAnother consideration is overall financial stewardship.\nAs we've heard today, any of the strategies will require staff to\nrelocate to a leased facility.\nThis means annual lease payments\nadded to the cost to renovate the space to meet the service delivery needs, either\nfrom civic campus staff, police staff, or both.\nSo this is an investment of city resources without a resulting tangible\nasset. There's no building at the end that the city owns, but we're putting\npotentially millions of dollars into that, a year into that\nleased facility.\nSo you want to consider how does each strategy support or doesn't\nsupport financial stewardship, along with recruiting and\nretention, which Mark mentioned at the beginning.\nAnd then final arm under this discussion is community benefit.\nAgain, as I mentioned, these topics, especially ones on this page,\nare objectives of the facility investment guiding principles and\nother city policy documents.\nThey also happen to align with the goals that are coming out of the Downtown\nVitality Strategy Task Force work.\nSo as you think about the different strategies for\nimplementation,\nhow do they further these objectives in support of what the community\nhas\nover the years and continues to say that it values?\nOkay, so we have the four\narms. We have topics that we would want to consider.\nWe look at the near-term results of the various implementation\nstrategies through these framework lenses,\nand these are the results that we came up with.\nSo in comparing strategies against each other,\nstrategy one has the best outcomes for achieving the\nobjectives in each of the components of the\nframework, and those objectives, again, coming from policy documents and the\nguiding principles.\nIn the middle two, within the strategies to build one facility now and the other\nlater, strategy two, building the police department first,\nranks better than strategy three on environmental,\nprimarily because of those resiliency gains you get from a robust\n911 and just the police department building in general, so\npolice can continue to operate, provide public services in an\nemergency.\nIt, however, ranks lower on economic.\nOne is because that building just costs more than Civic Campus.\nSo even in the near term, that building costs more.\nBut also, you have that long-term lease required for the Civic Campus\noptions that aren't included in the dollar amounts, but we know is an\nongoing cost to the city on an annual basis.\nStrategy three, the third one from the left, to build the Civic Campus\nfirst, ranks slightly better on the community benefit than strategy\ntwo because of these public gathering spaces that are incorporated in the building\ndesign and the plus.\nAnd strategy four,\nwhich is the abandoned downtown near term,\ndoes have some benefit on a technical\nperspective. Theoretically, all of your staff is located in the same\nleased facility, so those staff collaboration advantages\nare achieved in this\noption. And then for environmental, well, I think Mark's\ngraphics spoke for themselves. We're no longer occupying and\nfueling two buildings that have such poor-- Again, with the\nassumption and the hope that the leased facility that we find would\nbe a tighter envelope and a better performer on those\ngreenhouse gas kind of goals.\nAnd then so that concludes the second part of\nour conversation. So let me just go back to this slide and ask if there's any\nquestions on the IAP2 analysis.\nCould you repeat what the community benefit, the\nfourth item on community benefit?\nFirst was welcoming and very inclusive.\nSecond was community vision and\norganization. Third, equal spaces for community.\nWhat was the fourth? Downtown-\nDowntown vitality and a resilient Iowa.\nThanks.\nAnd again, you will have this information.\nYeah, I\nneed to put it down.\nThank you.\nThanks.\nOkay.\nOkay.\nOh, good.\nSo a lot of information.\nBig dollars, so maybe you're happy you're not making a decision today.\nSo then the next steps for us is to come back\nat your work session on May 7th, where\nwe will have done some work investigating the revenue\nsources that you asked us to investigate regarding facilities and\noperating costs. So we'll be back at a work session there,\nand then in June and maybe bleeding over into\nearly July, we'll start moving towards a\ndecision on the revenue side and facility side.\nThat's what we envision moving forward.\nAnd these are-- They're difficult\nchallenges to address. And I think that's why,\nagain, I bring my props. We've come here many times\nbefore,\nand people have just stepped away because they're challenging\nthings.\nBut I believe it's our responsibility to act\nresponsible,\nto\nbe good stewards of the organization that serves our community, and good\nstewards of\nthe resources from our community.\nSo with that, other general questions, or I'll turn it over to the\nmanager.\nAny other questions?\nNo.\nWell,\nI was going to say, for me, just based on what I see, it's like to me, the\ndecision's clear.\nMm-hmm.\nBut that's just me from a very data kind of\nmindset. So I look forward to our next conversation,\nand I appreciate the presentation and\nthe information.\nJohn?\nYeah, I think\nwhat's particularly striking\nis the-- Well, for me, the decision, the direction seems pretty clear as\nwell for a number of\nreasons. One is,\nin terms of total cost,\nit's going to be the cheapest solution, the best, the most cost-effective\nsolution.\nI think it does dovetail nicely with what's coming out of the Downtown\nVitality Strategy Task Force.\nI think it particularly demonstrates our commitment to downtown.\nAnd I think that\nto dive a little further into the cost side of things,\nI think what's particularly striking, again, I'll make the comment again.\nI think\nwe're used to living from this month to the next month or this year to the\nnext year. I think for a lot of folks thinking that, well, we'll just\ndelay it, seems like, well, it's a no-brainer.\nThat seems like a reasonable thing to do.\nYet the fact that construction costs going up on average\n6% per year, it doesn't take very many years before\nthat becomes a\nhurdle to overcome that we could have overcome many, many decades ago.\nSo I think that strikes me as well\nas\na real takeaway from this.\nI do think that I will,\nI think in the interest of completeness, I do want to\nhighlight something that Jim said,\nwhich is, there is that not very\ndesirable fifth option out there, which is to literally abandon\ndowntown,\nand I don't think anybody's wanting that to happen.\nBut if the answer is\nlet's\nfind absolute cheapest\nsolution, we can relocate\ncompletely out of downtown.\nI've said this before. I'm\nnot as supportive of it, so I'll say it, but I'm not supportive of it.\nWe can certainly buy a building off the HP campus, and then we can\nretrofit it, and good luck to the response time to Southtown for the\npolice\nresponse\nthere. And downtown vitality will take an enormous hit.\nThis is I don't think this is what we want for our downtown.\nSo there are cheaper, quote unquote, \"cheaper solutions\"-\nCheaper\n... in that we don't have to address this issue in the short term,\nbut more expensive in the long term because the impact will be felt for\ngenerations.\nMm-hmm.\nSo\nit's important for people to understand that\nnot only do we have\nthe opportunity\nto put a stake in the ground for the future that will last\ngenerations,\nwe also run the risk\nof creating a situation that is likely\nirrecoverable from for generations.\nMm-hmm.\nSo those are my observations. And as to\nthe topic\nthat\nwas discussed about police and safety downtown, I know one of the things coming out\nof the Downtown Vitality Strategy Task Force is people want to save downtown.\nMm-hmm.\nI think that\nI certainly understand there are folks who\nhave challenges in their interactions with the police department.\nIf I were the police chief,\nI would be highly\nfocused on effectiveness with the community,\nand if things were getting dramatically and drastically\nworse, I'd\ncertainly be all over that, and I certainly invite city manager and the\npolice\nto address any concerns that they have in that\nrealm. But I don't...\nCharlie made the comment that things are getting worse and worse, and I haven't\nseen any evidence to that.\nNot here.\nThe North Police Department is doing excellent.\nI want to make it really clear that I'm not talking about them, but the\npublic perception-\nNationally\n... nationally is not good.\nMaybe we can change that.\nYeah. I think you have an opportunity to change that here.\nYeah. We think we have\na great situation here, so I wouldn't want to\ntake the multiple discussions and years of discussion we've had about\nthis, and make a decision about the location of a\npolice department,\nbased on perception of what's happening in Asheville.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so\nI'm very supportive of moving forward with an option.\nIf I could just push back a little bit on your first part of that comment, not on\nhow police are doing.\nMm-hmm.\nIn terms of that it would be cheaper to go someplace\nelse, and your example being HP, it's important to\nrecognize, I think, in that conversations...\nLike when someone hears it's cheaper, it's like, \"Oh, well then it's cheaper.\" But\nhow much cheaper? Or is it cheaper?\nWould be a question we would have to explore more.\nRight.\nThe buildings in HP were constructed at a period of\ntime that,\nat least in preliminary investigations or conversations,\ndon't seem to meet the seismic resiliency that we would need for a 911\nfacility.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so even if we bought the building, are we basically\ntearing it down and constructing, at least for police, a new facility?\nSo that cheaper may be just a little bit nervous to have out there in\nthe world.\nOkay. Yeah.\nBecause we know that-\nThank you for that clarification.\nWhen I came up to Corvallis in 1995,\nI worked in the, eventually, the newest building on the HP campus,\nso that's 1995.\nSo I am aware of age of the buildings.\nYeah.\nSecond,\nI do think,\nyour point of we would have to quantify the cost is\nabsolutely... I second that 1,000%, and I'm sorry if I misspoke\nabout that.\nMm-hmm.\nI think what I meant to say, in terms of cheapest,\nis that\nwe could make\nthat decision that would force that to be the solution in the short\nterm, and it might, in the first year,\nsave money or cost less than thinking something large.\nBut it will have both economic and\nnon-economic costs in the long run that I would posit actually\noutweigh the cost of what we're looking at.\nMm-hmm.\nMm-hmm.\nSo thank you for the clarification.\nYeah.\nAnd that's a great example, if I may, is-\nYeah\n... the court building.\n25 years ago, we chose to lease that building, not buy it.\nWe end up paying,\nin today's dollars, $1.9 million in lease costs,\nand then we went out and bought the building for another 1.4 million.\nAnd that doesn't include all the money we had to pour into it,\nas far as maintenance and everything else.\nSo it seems, oh, it's just cheap, let's just lease it.\nBut in the end,\nthat all adds up.\nYeah. And I would like to add about just the focus on downtown and the impact\nour decisions have on downtown.\nWhen I was the former city councilor for downtown, and any time a\nbusiness closes doors and you get a vacant storefront, people said, \"Look,\ndowntown's dying.\"\nMm-hmm.\nAnd the same thing was said when the county vacated their building and left\ndowntown.\nMm-hmm.\nThey felt everybody was like, \"Look, downtown's going to die.\"\nMm-hmm.\nWhat are we going to do?\nWe have task forces that shows that there's a lot of interest in\ndowntown, and\nif we make a decision that removes city facilities from\ndowntown,\nI think it's the nail in the coffin.\nSure.\nThat's the understatement. Because at least from the community's\nperspective, is they're going to think we're abandoning what we say we care about,\nand that's not the direction I would be happy to go at all.\nSo remember that I do not support-\nI know.\nI do want to address that there\ncan be a perception that it's, let's just do a cheaper solution.\nAnd I think it can be cheaper in the moment,\nand much more costly in the long run.\nYeah.\nYeah. In so many ways.\nYeah.\nIn so many ways.\nThat was my point.\nNot just with money.\nWell, part of what we're talking about is the cost of failure to act.\nMm-hmm.\nThere's also the cost if you just fail.\nBecause is it going to be a case we're going to be making\nhowever we end up\narticulating that, but we're going to have a story to tell, and part of\nthe story is what are the costs of our\nfailure-\nYes\n... to maintain a presence downtown, to make use of\nthe opportunity that we have related to the\ncivic campus and downtown. There's some\naspects of that that we're only beginning to articulate.\nMm-hmm.\nWhich is\ndealing with is that we have\na downtown vitality plan\nthat's\ngetting close, but it's not there yet.\nAnd\nso that whole aspect of a civic campus and\nits relationship to a vital community\nis something that would, in some ways, happen as part of a design\nprocess, right? In order to undertake the design process, we\nhave\nmoney to spend and decisions to make.\nAnd so there's a wish we could put the\npoints a little bit because that's\npart of the story we're trying to tell.\nIs what can our downtown be, especially with\nthe civic campus, and a civic\ncampus that's reimagined\nas a place for our community to gather\nand for a place for our community to rub shoulders with the police department.\nIf you want to take a moment to try to reflect on the lack of it- ...\nfollowing through with these plans.\nYeah.\nHow much has that contributed to the current state of downtown?\nCorrect.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nAnd it's hard to\ncommunicate that vision\nuntil it's there. But I've said this before, you think about\nRiverfront Park, a lot of controversy over that.\nTotally.\nBut who here could imagine downtown Corvallis without it?\nYeah.\nRight.\nAnd so it's-\nI think this would be exactly the same.\nTo be fair, there was a lot of compromise that went into the final\ndesign on downtown, because that was my first thing that I was\npaying attention to-\nMm-hmm\n... when I moved, so what was happening in Corvallis. I was a new resident.\nAnd the original design is now what we ended up with.\nSo there was a lot-\nYou actually put it to a referendum, which I think-\nA lot of community engagement in that\n... failed.\nI just wanted to interject that there are members of the downtown\ntask force\nthat are just making the connection\nbetween the importance of having facilities downtown to the\nvitality of downtown. So we have a job to\ndo to properly\ncommunicate to the community the crucial\naspect of having\nstaff, police, community\nfocal point,\nand then do this thing.\nAs I think you said, how would it look to the community\nif\nwe fail at this?\nHow about we just give up and say, \"Oh well, we can't afford it.\nWe're going to move up to H Street.\" In the middle of trying to\nrevitalize downtown?\nSo anyway.\nWe're failing by not making the difficult decision.\nRight. So anyway, we have our work cut out for us from a messaging\nstandpoint, because we've been at the downtown task force and the\ncivic campus for how long, and people do not make the connection.\nClint.\nI was\nreally involved in the downtown riverfront stuff\nin more than one way,\nand there were opponents, and there were proponents, but what they had in\ncommon was that something was going to happen at the river.\nMm-hmm.\nAnd so the\nissue was around the details of what was going to happen, wasn't that\nsomething wasn't going to happen.\nAnd so\nat core, there was consensus about\nthe riverfront. It was time to transform it into a parking lot,\nbecause that's what it was, it was a gravel parking lot,\nto something else. And\nso part of our responsibility in all of this\nis going to be to articulate the vision\nthat\nthis is the future we want, even if we don't know the\ndetails yet, and even if there's going to be a lot of work to do\nto articulate in specifics what is this\ngoing to look like, how is it going to benefit the community and downtown.\nAnd so if we're going to do this, it's our job to build that\nconsensus.\nMm-hmm. Right.\nIn the same way that people started planning\na future riverfront that was going to be not gravel parking lots\nanyway.\nYeah. I think we need to decide what we want for camp.\nBut I'll give you an example.\nOur City Hall right now, some people love it, some people hate it,\njust by the looks of it.\nBut if you look at CHS, the old high school that's\ntorn down, I like the old school, but the new school,\nso much better.\nMm-hmm.\nWay better in terms of\nclassroom and\nenvironment,\nand-\nI index this class I\ndisagree.\nAnd you think about what can we do if we got rid of that\nbarracks, or whatever you want to call it, that the law enforcement\nbuilding is now. Guess what you could put there?\nYou could put-\nOver/under\n... you could put all kinds\nof beneficial things for our folks.\nWe keep the courthouse, we keep the other historic aspects of\ndowntown.\nSo,\nat first I thought, there's a lot of pushback\nabout\nthe city hall, we should preserve it.\nBut, the earthquake that's coming around, I don't know, the PBS\nspecial, the\nlatest special on\nthe\nbig one.\n30, 35% chance in the next 50 years.\nSo if we don't do something now, we're going to end up-\nWe might be forced to.\nYeah.\nRight.\nYeah. We will not have\nthe facilities to continue with\noperating the city.\nSo we're not going to wait for the earthquake to have\nthis happen, but if you think\nit's\nbeen\n300 years since it last happened, and the average is\n250 years, and yeah. Take a look at that and\nbe scared.\nWe definitely have some decisions to make and some more information to\ncome. So-\nYes\n...\nmaybe we should move on here so we can get out of here at a reasonable time.\nBut again, I really appreciate the effort, the work, and I love the data.\nYeah.\nYeah.\nMm-hmm.\nIt can be shocking.\nYeah. It's similar to the person that said, also, \"I'd really like that.\"\nI'd like to see the money part of it.\nGood. I know.\nSo we'll move on now.\nCommunity comments, we did receive some written community comments in your email,\nso be sure to read that.\nAny questions on the three-month calendar?\nCharles,\nI submitted something-\nYeah\n... and Council of Impact also submitted something to get on the\nagenda. When are we actually going to have those conversations?\nI'll be looking to schedule those things at the end of January.\nWith those, I was specifically waiting for the last conversation we had\non Monday around how the process should be.\nSo those are coming.\nOkay. I didn't feel like we came to any sort of understanding of how the process\nwould be.\nNo. I think the only we're going to do at this point-\nHow I'm comfortable\n... is to move forward and do it.\nSo that will be happening. Anything else?\nAll right. I'll turn the mic back. I say we're adjourned. Thank you."
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    "result": {
      "headline": "Corvallis Council Weighs $211M–$337M Civic Campus and Police Station Options, No Decision Made",
      "summary": "The Corvallis City Council held a work session on April 9, 2026 to review four implementation strategies for building a new civic campus and police/public safety facility on Madison Avenue downtown. Architects from FFA Architecture and Interiors presented cost estimates ranging from $211 million (building both simultaneously, bid in 2029) to $337 million (delaying both projects eight years). No decision was made; council will return in May to review revenue and funding options before moving toward a decision in June or July.",
      "keyPoints": [
        "Building both projects simultaneously (Strategy 1) is the lowest total cost at ~$211M and rated best across all evaluation dimensions; delaying both eight years (Strategy 4) costs ~$337M.",
        "Construction escalation runs at 6% per year (0.5%/month), meaning delay of a single year adds roughly $1M/month to total project cost.",
        "City Hall uses approximately 10x more energy per square foot than Benton County's Kalapuya building, a key driver for replacement.",
        "Building both projects together enables a shared underground parking structure spanning Madison Avenue; phasing makes this impractical.",
        "Councilor Bowden Allison (virtual) raised concern that a police facility adjacent to a civic plaza may undermine downtown vitality and deter some community members from using public gathering spaces.",
        "The current law enforcement building is rated in poor condition; temporary relocation of police to meet code for holding cells and evidence storage would be significantly more expensive than relocating administrative staff.",
        "Architects reported strong contractor interest in the combined project, with the construction market currently slow following completion of major projects like Portland Airport.",
        "A Downtown Vitality Strategic Task Force has been working in parallel; its goals align closely with Strategy 1 outcomes.",
        "The informal 'fifth option' of relocating city facilities entirely out of downtown was raised and broadly rejected; speakers noted HP-era campus buildings likely fail seismic standards required for a 911 facility."
      ],
      "decisions": [
        "No formal decisions were made at this session.",
        "Council confirmed the November 2024 vision of two buildings on Madison Avenue with a connecting plaza remains the direction under evaluation.",
        "Discussion of flipping building positions (civic campus south, police north) was acknowledged as not materially affecting cost."
      ],
      "followUps": [
        "May 7 work session: staff returns with revenue source analysis and operating cost estimates.",
        "June (potentially into early July): council moves toward formal decisions on revenue approach and facility strategy.",
        "Councilor Charles submitted agenda items for future scheduling; city manager said those would be placed on the calendar."
      ],
      "notablePeople": [
        "Mark (city manager, last name not stated) — opened session, framed decades of deferred facility investment",
        "Ian Gelber — partner, FFA Architecture and Interiors; led implementation options presentation",
        "John Peet — FFA project manager",
        "Mary (last name not stated) — city staff; presented IAP2 sustainable decision framework analysis",
        "Councilor Bowden Allison — participated virtually; raised police-plaza compatibility concern",
        "Scott Dipod — city sustainability coordinator; credited for energy usage data",
        "Abby Alexander — city innovation manager; credited for energy usage data",
        "Councilor John (last name not captured) — expressed clear preference for Strategy 1",
        "Councilor Clint (last name not captured) — drew riverfront park analogy",
        "Councilor Paul (last name not captured) — asked clarifying questions on cost inflation assumptions",
        "Councilor Charlie/Charles (last name not captured) — raised national police perception concerns; had submitted agenda items"
      ],
      "uncertainty": "The transcript has zero speaker labels; all speaker attributions are inferred from conversational context and are not confirmed. Several council members are identified only by first name (Paul, John, Clint, Charlie/Charles); last names were not stated or were unclear in the transcript. Mary's last name and exact title were not provided. A reference to 'Council of Impact' submitting agenda items appears to be a transcription artifact; the actual name or group is unclear. Some crosstalk and mid-sentence handoffs make a few exchanges ambiguous in attribution."
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