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Quiet, please.

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All right, everybody. My watch says it's four o'clock, so let's go ahead and call

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to order today's meeting of-- today's work session of the

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Corvallis City Council.

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One big topic for today, so let's just get to it and take up all our time.

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Our facility investments, police and civic campus options.

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Why don't you go ahead and hand it over to-

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I'm going to hand it back.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah. I'll just kick it off with some comments just to

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provide some

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perspective and background as we reenter this conversation,

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and then I'll turn it over

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to the smart people in the room, our architects and

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Mary.

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As we've talked

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many times before, Corvallis has largely ignored our

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facilities

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for

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decades.

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And we have seen some recent progress and wins in that

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we remodeled Fire Station 2, we remodeled Fire Station 3 with

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the federal ARPA funds, and in several months we'll be

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breaking ground on park maintenance facilities.

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So those certainly are exciting things.

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But we continue to push our existing facilities

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to a breaking point, and there truly are

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impacts to staff, operational impacts.

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You see quite a few staff in the audience because

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this is an issue that is

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very important to all of us.

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And as I was

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thinking about that and what we've done over these decades, I really

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do think Corvallis, in the way we've balanced our budget,

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we've expanded services at the cost of not investing

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in our facilities.

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We've

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created this false narrative or expectation that you don't need

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to invest in facilities. Where if we had been

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regularly investing, we would've been taking out bonds, we would have

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debt,

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or we would've been putting money aside for these facilities,

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and yet we

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haven't done that.

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And yet investing in facilities, civic facilities, is really the

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norm. Most communities do this

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on a regular basis.

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And you don't have to look very far.

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You look to our neighbors in Albany.

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They have what I'll call a newish city hall.

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It's pushing 30 years now, but that's a purpose-built facility that is

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serving them well.

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They have a brand-new police station, a brand-new

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downtown fire station. They have two

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satellite fire stations that are relatively new.

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They purchased a building and repurposed it into an expanded library.

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So again, you see that investment from our neighbors right there.

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You go north of us,

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Monmouth, just a couple of years ago, opened up a brand-new

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purpose-built city hall.

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Monmouth's neighbor, Independence, years before Monmouth,

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built a civic center that houses their city

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administration and their police department.

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And then interestingly, my in-laws, they live out in Scio.

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I don't know if any of you have been to Scio.

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It's a town of about 1,000 people,

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and I've had to be out there a little more frequently because my in-laws are

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requiring a little more attention.

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And

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I've seen recently they are building from the ground up a purpose-built

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city hall. So big or small, communities do

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invest in their civic

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buildings and facilities.

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And then if you think about even private companies, they are

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profit-driven, so they're generally not going to do something if there's not a

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return on investment.

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And yet they do invest in not just factories, but other

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facilities, office buildings and things, because they know there is a return on

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investment.

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They know that in that it helps attract and

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retain high-quality staff, something certainly we want to

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do. It creates an environment where there's collaboration,

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where the staff feel valued,

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where they feel safe, comfortable.

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All those things leverage this return on investment of

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effectiveness, efficiency.

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So I think we can take some notes from the private sector that there is

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a return on these investments, truly,

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in how we operate.

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And nothing in our plans comes close to

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a private company's campus or

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facilities.

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But I do think our staff should be able to expect that they can

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come to work in a place that is safe,

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that is comfortable,

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that's functional,

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that's equitable,

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so they feel valued, and that they can do their work well, that they can

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collaborate and communicate well.

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So well-functioning facilities are a foundational

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aspect

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of a high-performing organization.

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And it's interesting, as

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over the years that I've been here, we've brought forward different master plans.

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You think of a water master plan, the wastewater master plan,

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and I know council understands, the community understands we need to

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invest in that infrastructure.

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And those are expensive. Water treatment plant, wastewater treatment plant.

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We have to invest in those. Why? Because the community's growing, and

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so those facilities have to accommodate that

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growth. Environmental regulations

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change, and so those plants need to

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accommodate that. There's a parallel.

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It's directly the same with our buildings that house our staffAs our

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community grows, we've added staff.

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We need to accommodate those staff.

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And as the workforce evolves, we need to accommodate that

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new environment

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with the evolved staffing that we have.

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So

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our buildings and facilities are no different than what we see in our

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wastewater treatment plants.

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And in fact,

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we do have a facilities master plan.

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This was adopted by the council in January of

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2022. It's our citywide facilities

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strategy. So it is a master plan. And while

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today we're talking about the civic campus and the police facilities,

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there are many more facilities yet that we need to address.

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And I want you to keep that in mind as we move forward in the months ahead, when

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we start talking about funding and how we might

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fund facility projects. And then

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lastly, I think it's good to remind ourselves

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that really at the heart, at the very beginning of our

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conversations and planning for civic campus and police station, was

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this idea that this is not just about staff space, it's

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not just about office space,

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but it truly is an opportunity to make a community

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space. It's really a

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once in a lifetime opportunity to create something downtown.

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And I think it's exciting,

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kind of that refocus on downtown that the community has had and

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how those conversations are developing, how projects are

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moving forward.

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And I do want to remind everyone that

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the beginning, the driver, the impetus for this focus on downtown

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was actually when we brought civic campus and police station

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project forward years ago. That's what really kind of kicked that

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off.

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So I do think these projects specifically

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can have a huge impact far outside

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just how they impact the way the city delivers services.

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As we move forward today, we are not seeking a decision from

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the council. And in fact, you wouldn't be able to provide a

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well-reasoned or well-informed decision today because we haven't talked

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about the revenue side, how we might pay for that, and what

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might be possible.

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So this really is to

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respond to the resolution that the council passed to bring

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forward this option and

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implications of moving forward in different ways with these facilities, together or

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separate.

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So that's what we'll work towards today and provide.

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And it's important to keep this information

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in mind as we move forward in May and June,

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and if it goes on a month or two beyond that, and we start

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making decisions about the facilities and the funding.

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This is really foundational for that, for you, hopefully also

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for the community too.

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So with that, I'll be turning it over.

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I think Ian, you're going to kick us off.

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Ian is going to lead us through a section.

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Mary's going to talk about sustainable decision-making.

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I think the best way to handle this is hold your questions till

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Ian's done, we'll open it up. Mary's done, and then once we're done with

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everything,

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hopefully we'll have some good conversation and general questions

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at the end.

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Any questions before I hand it over to Ian?

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Okay. Good.

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All right.

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And Ian, you can introduce yourself and John.

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Good afternoon, council. Great to see many of you again.

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For those of you who I haven't met before,

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my name is Ian Gelber. I'm a partner with FFA Architecture and Interiors of

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Portland. We're a 70-year-old practice that has been in

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pretty much that entire time.

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Most of our work is focused on public facilities like

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the facilities that you're considering today.

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I'm joined here today with John Peet, who is our project manager.

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He's here to make sure that I don't say anything that I wasn't supposed to say or

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to actually correct me if I get something wrong.

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For most of my 28-year career, I have been focused

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on public facilities. Within the last 10, my

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focus has been helping

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municipalities like yours get from conversations like

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today to opening day.

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Yeah.

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And all the various ways that those types of things happen.

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With that, we're going to dive in.

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So we have here. We've organized this in such a

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way to reset the stage. It's been

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a little over a year or more since we've had a chance to, since

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council made the decision about which vision that they wanted to move forward with.

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So we want to reintroduce that, particularly for council members who weren't a part

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of those conversations.

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And then the bulk of the conversation is really about how these projects get

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implemented. And we'll go through a series of scenarios and talk

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about the pros and cons and what the risks might be to full

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implementation. And then lastly, as Mark mentioned, then there's the

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conversation about what the upcoming process.

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So resetting the stage.

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This endeavor began in 2022 with the master

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plan that Mark just mentioned.

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And so within that

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effort, we had tasks of assessing the different

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facilities that are in Corvallis's facility portfolio.

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And so we looked at a range of different thingsThis gets at

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what Mark talked about initially, which is that if the red

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line represents the population growth of the city

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of Corvallis

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up until, I think about

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a little past 2020.

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Excuse me. And that the projected growth is to continue to

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about 75,000 by 2040.

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The dark blue represents the amount of square footage in your existing facilities.

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Mm-hmm.

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And you start to see where that gap has

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occurred over time, where your facility investment, just

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from a space needs, hasn't kept up with your population growth.

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And then as that dashed line moves past, that is the

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expected growth that's to happen.

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And so there's a risk that you sort of get deeper in the hole much quickly

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if you don't take the steps in some ways in the

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reasonable future.

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In addition to looking at space needs, and we'll talk a little bit about space

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needs again, we were responsible for doing ranking the

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current facilities relative to their condition.

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And we've got four buckets. We have administrative, which

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includes

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city administration, city hall,

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HR, everything that is centered around the management of the

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city. We have operations, that includes public works and parks

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maintenance, and then we have public safety, which is police

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as well as fire. And then public-facing functions that are

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library, the pool, theater,

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they fall in that last.

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At the bottom you see our sort of rating scale.

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Everything from poor, which is one or the dark red, to

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green, which is good.

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So the dark red that you see in operations, that's parks maintenance.

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And if you've ever toured parks maintenance facility, I don't think that's

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arguable.

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If you look at public safety, that is the law enforcement building.

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And then the green aspects there, or there's a little bit red there

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also for city hall.

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And then the green aspect is the investments that you've already done with the fire

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station work that you've completed.

259
00:14:27,164 --> 00:14:30,984
So this is a representation of those space needs with those

260
00:14:31,084 --> 00:14:34,624
same buckets, the administrative, the operations, the public safety, and public

261
00:14:34,664 --> 00:14:35,064
facing.

262
00:14:35,884 --> 00:14:39,204
The light gray represents your current square footage.

263
00:14:40,544 --> 00:14:44,204
The dark red represents to meet today's current needs,

264
00:14:44,524 --> 00:14:46,304
how much more square footage you would need.

265
00:14:47,184 --> 00:14:51,064
And then to the bluish cyan color

266
00:14:51,624 --> 00:14:55,184
represents if you're projecting that growth out to

267
00:14:55,324 --> 00:14:59,064
2040, how much additional space you would need on top of what you have

268
00:14:59,124 --> 00:14:59,504
today.

269
00:15:03,184 --> 00:15:07,084
I will say that in this process of evaluation of the

270
00:15:07,244 --> 00:15:09,304
city facilities, we looked at everything.

271
00:15:09,524 --> 00:15:10,694
We went through 10 departments,

272
00:15:11,604 --> 00:15:15,504
and 17 facilities overall. John's going to correct me if I get that wrong.

273
00:15:15,644 --> 00:15:15,844
Thanks.

274
00:15:15,854 --> 00:15:16,244
Sure.

275
00:15:19,924 --> 00:15:23,404
As part of that process, we established guiding principles

276
00:15:23,444 --> 00:15:27,224
for the arc of what we're talking about, both in that facility

277
00:15:27,284 --> 00:15:30,464
assessment and moving forward into concept design.

278
00:15:31,284 --> 00:15:35,244
All of those guiding principles came from the work that council

279
00:15:35,284 --> 00:15:38,384
had already done in a series of policy documents.

280
00:15:38,744 --> 00:15:42,564
So if you remember, we had a matrix that we presented last

281
00:15:42,584 --> 00:15:43,444
time that showed

282
00:15:44,564 --> 00:15:48,424
all the things they were doing and how they tied back to specific policy decisions

283
00:15:48,804 --> 00:15:52,604
the council had made over time. And so it just reinforced the

284
00:15:52,644 --> 00:15:53,864
priorities that council had,

285
00:15:54,824 --> 00:15:58,684
and we felt like it was a good way to kind of evaluate the steps that we were

286
00:15:58,724 --> 00:15:59,184
taking.

287
00:16:03,344 --> 00:16:07,064
So let's talk about the decision that council made back

288
00:16:07,284 --> 00:16:09,264
in November of 2024.

289
00:16:10,444 --> 00:16:13,684
We presented multiple scenarios about how

290
00:16:14,324 --> 00:16:16,224
Civic Campus and the police station

291
00:16:17,244 --> 00:16:19,744
could be configured around Madison.

292
00:16:19,824 --> 00:16:21,724
These were really the sites that we focused on.

293
00:16:24,244 --> 00:16:27,904
This was land that the city either owned or was in the process of owning,

294
00:16:28,324 --> 00:16:30,044
and we felt like this was the right place with

295
00:16:30,884 --> 00:16:33,624
other priorities around Madison Avenue.

296
00:16:35,124 --> 00:16:38,704
Most of the other versions that we talked about with you involved

297
00:16:39,384 --> 00:16:41,364
keeping the existing city hall or not.

298
00:16:42,404 --> 00:16:45,984
This was the ultimate vision that council decided, and I'm going to walk through

299
00:16:45,994 --> 00:16:48,604
quickly just the different categories,

300
00:16:49,204 --> 00:16:51,644
why they were ranked the way that they were.

301
00:16:52,244 --> 00:16:55,524
So in the white bars that you see, anything on the left

302
00:16:56,144 --> 00:16:59,724
where it has a little negative were considered less desirable

303
00:16:59,804 --> 00:17:01,484
relative to those guiding principles.

304
00:17:01,944 --> 00:17:04,924
Anything where it goes all the way to the right where the positive is,

305
00:17:05,744 --> 00:17:08,305
felt like they were meeting guiding principles much better.

306
00:17:09,424 --> 00:17:09,604
So

307
00:17:10,545 --> 00:17:14,124
beginning with the first one, from a functional and operation standpoint,

308
00:17:14,764 --> 00:17:18,234
these projects were bringing everybody together and consolidating them

309
00:17:18,285 --> 00:17:18,805
around

310
00:17:19,744 --> 00:17:22,384
the potential plaza area on Madison.

311
00:17:23,065 --> 00:17:26,545
And that notion of synergies across

312
00:17:26,924 --> 00:17:30,504
city departments was seen as a positive, versus being

313
00:17:30,524 --> 00:17:34,044
distributed between the existing city hall, this

314
00:17:34,104 --> 00:17:34,564
building.

315
00:17:37,104 --> 00:17:37,284
Yeah.

316
00:17:37,404 --> 00:17:37,584
Yeah.

317
00:17:37,784 --> 00:17:37,974
Thanks.

318
00:17:38,044 --> 00:17:41,404
This was seen as a way to

319
00:17:42,964 --> 00:17:45,264
create a higher degree of synergy and efficiency.

320
00:17:47,164 --> 00:17:48,064
Carbon impact.

321
00:17:48,924 --> 00:17:50,644
We spent a lot of time talking about carbon.

322
00:17:51,724 --> 00:17:52,484
When you are

323
00:17:53,504 --> 00:17:56,964
evaluating carbon, you're looking at carbon from two perspectives.

324
00:17:57,164 --> 00:18:01,144
One is the embodied carbon, which from an architectural standpoint, it's what

325
00:18:01,204 --> 00:18:03,744
it takes to make the building, to build the building.

326
00:18:04,364 --> 00:18:08,224
And then you're talking about operational carbon, which is how much it takes to

327
00:18:09,224 --> 00:18:13,204
run the facility from an energy perspective.

328
00:18:13,284 --> 00:18:15,084
The carbon impact here was less

329
00:18:15,644 --> 00:18:19,252
over-Largely because the embodied

330
00:18:19,332 --> 00:18:19,772
carbon

331
00:18:20,652 --> 00:18:24,051
of the existing city hall was taken out of the equation.

332
00:18:25,812 --> 00:18:29,612
The two points I would have around that are that

333
00:18:30,132 --> 00:18:32,692
the facilities that we're proposing for

334
00:18:32,992 --> 00:18:36,772
would be as low carbon as we can

335
00:18:36,812 --> 00:18:40,172
possibly make within the technology that we have now, which is

336
00:18:40,512 --> 00:18:44,392
using things like mass timber, looking at other systems to look

337
00:18:44,432 --> 00:18:46,331
at decreasing the embodied carbon.

338
00:18:47,472 --> 00:18:50,232
Or sorry, from the beginning of the construction.

339
00:18:51,292 --> 00:18:55,172
The operational carbon is about creating facilities that are incredibly

340
00:18:55,212 --> 00:18:55,852
efficient.

341
00:18:57,332 --> 00:19:00,412
I think Mary's going to share some graphs at the end of the presentation.

342
00:19:00,452 --> 00:19:03,652
We'll talk about the actual energies- ... at city hall.

343
00:19:04,212 --> 00:19:07,412
And as an architect, I will tell you that it's staggering.

344
00:19:07,552 --> 00:19:09,272
I haven't seen a figure like that before.

345
00:19:11,212 --> 00:19:12,732
But not to thunder,

346
00:19:13,752 --> 00:19:14,432
it is impressive.

347
00:19:16,012 --> 00:19:17,432
From a resiliency standpoint,

348
00:19:19,032 --> 00:19:20,992
we're looking at as much resilience as we can.

349
00:19:21,412 --> 00:19:25,232
When you are doing a police station, you have to meet

350
00:19:25,312 --> 00:19:29,252
a seismic level or an earthquake resistance level of what's called Level 4.

351
00:19:30,032 --> 00:19:32,012
That means that in the event of an earthquake,

352
00:19:33,592 --> 00:19:36,712
everyone leaves the building during the earthquake, and the police can go right

353
00:19:36,752 --> 00:19:39,252
back in and continue operation because they need to.

354
00:19:40,792 --> 00:19:41,932
With the civic campus,

355
00:19:43,272 --> 00:19:46,192
we decided that we were going to aim for Level 3,

356
00:19:47,112 --> 00:19:50,752
which enabled everyone to get out of the building safely, which is required by

357
00:19:50,832 --> 00:19:53,672
code. But the building is not a throwaway when you're done.

358
00:19:54,992 --> 00:19:58,852
So that your investment in facility right now is one

359
00:19:58,872 --> 00:20:02,632
that survives an earthquake, needs some repairs, but it's not we're

360
00:20:02,732 --> 00:20:04,572
scraping the site kind of condition.

361
00:20:05,392 --> 00:20:09,172
By comparison, the current city hall has had seismic

362
00:20:09,232 --> 00:20:13,072
upgrades, but it is to a Level 2, which means that everybody gets out

363
00:20:13,132 --> 00:20:16,732
safely, but the building is done. There's no repairing.

364
00:20:17,432 --> 00:20:20,292
So keeping that in mind in terms of the overall resilience.

365
00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:24,732
And then resilience is not just about earthquake resistance, it's

366
00:20:24,852 --> 00:20:28,672
also about energy performance and the opportunities for solar

367
00:20:28,771 --> 00:20:31,012
panels and battery systems and all of that.

368
00:20:31,392 --> 00:20:34,432
This system gave the most opportunity for that.

369
00:20:36,272 --> 00:20:40,152
Financial stewardship. There's a lot of ways to look at budget and

370
00:20:40,192 --> 00:20:44,132
financial stewardship. We took the approach of this is a way to

371
00:20:44,192 --> 00:20:47,832
meet the goals that we had outlined for the least amount of long-term costs.

372
00:20:48,472 --> 00:20:52,392
And so of the options that we were presenting, this option actually comes with

373
00:20:52,492 --> 00:20:52,772
this.

374
00:20:54,832 --> 00:20:58,652
From an accessibility standpoint, when we initially started the

375
00:20:58,732 --> 00:21:01,472
concept design, looking at the

376
00:21:02,512 --> 00:21:05,962
civic campus in particular, the existing city hall has

377
00:21:06,012 --> 00:21:09,912
accessibility challenges. It is designed in a very traditional manner, which means

378
00:21:09,932 --> 00:21:13,221
the first floor is, if I remember correctly, about seven feet up.

379
00:21:13,932 --> 00:21:17,672
That represents a pretty significant barrier for anybody who's in a wheelchair.

380
00:21:18,632 --> 00:21:22,572
Currently, I'm sure as you all know, if you're using a wheelchair to go

381
00:21:22,592 --> 00:21:26,312
into city hall, you have to go through the back door, find your way to an elevator,

382
00:21:26,492 --> 00:21:28,152
and come up midway through the building.

383
00:21:29,032 --> 00:21:32,132
If city halls are intended to welcome every resident

384
00:21:32,992 --> 00:21:33,512
in the most

385
00:21:34,672 --> 00:21:38,412
thoughtful and compassionate, caring way, the existing building really

386
00:21:38,432 --> 00:21:38,932
doesn't.

387
00:21:40,392 --> 00:21:44,212
It's not to say that we didn't explore ways to solve that problem, but they came

388
00:21:44,292 --> 00:21:47,612
at significant expense or didn't really meet the intent.

389
00:21:49,652 --> 00:21:53,602
Lastly, we talked about the potential community amenity that

390
00:21:53,652 --> 00:21:55,692
these projects could create.

391
00:21:56,612 --> 00:21:59,532
And that's really about resident engagement.

392
00:22:00,322 --> 00:22:00,322
Right.

393
00:22:00,352 --> 00:22:04,162
And so the plaza existed in most of the options, and that's a

394
00:22:04,892 --> 00:22:08,792
fantastic opportunity for civic events, and it goes a long

395
00:22:08,832 --> 00:22:12,432
way towards bringing people downtown, which we'll talk about later when we talk

396
00:22:12,472 --> 00:22:15,972
about downtown vitality. But this option

397
00:22:16,072 --> 00:22:19,752
allowed for the most potential public meeting

398
00:22:19,872 --> 00:22:21,972
space within the civic campus lot.

399
00:22:22,512 --> 00:22:25,872
The other options that we presented at the time were more about just

400
00:22:25,892 --> 00:22:29,592
administration or trying to have public meeting space

401
00:22:29,772 --> 00:22:33,732
in the existing city hall only. Again, back to that notion of accessible.

402
00:22:37,232 --> 00:22:40,592
Go ahead and move forward at that point, unless there's any comments on it.

403
00:22:44,992 --> 00:22:45,772
Okay, so

404
00:22:46,692 --> 00:22:49,072
we're going to take a little bit of time with this graphic.

405
00:22:49,192 --> 00:22:52,812
We showed it to you back in November of 2024.

406
00:22:53,472 --> 00:22:57,232
But this represents pretty much the fundamental challenge in

407
00:22:57,272 --> 00:23:00,772
terms of creating public facilities, or frankly, any

408
00:23:00,832 --> 00:23:02,872
facility from a time and construction standpoint.

409
00:23:04,012 --> 00:23:07,992
So what this graphic represents is the time scale

410
00:23:08,052 --> 00:23:11,692
from left to right, beginning from 1980 to

411
00:23:11,972 --> 00:23:12,432
2060.

412
00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:16,792
And what it is here to show you is the cost or impact of

413
00:23:16,832 --> 00:23:20,792
escalation, specifically construction escalation, over

414
00:23:20,852 --> 00:23:21,132
time.

415
00:23:22,952 --> 00:23:26,392
So we made a couple of modifications

416
00:23:26,452 --> 00:23:29,352
to this diagram since we last showed it to you.

417
00:23:30,112 --> 00:23:32,732
Before I get to that, let me explain the diagram a little bit.

418
00:23:33,472 --> 00:23:37,352
From the orange dot in the middle that represents today, moving backward

419
00:23:37,392 --> 00:23:40,232
in time, the numbers that are provided are

420
00:23:41,472 --> 00:23:44,592
using what is called the Engineer News Record.

421
00:23:46,812 --> 00:23:49,052
Basically, they track escalation over time.

422
00:23:49,112 --> 00:23:52,752
So it's the actual escalation for construction that has

423
00:23:52,792 --> 00:23:56,752
happened over that time. From the orange dot to

424
00:23:56,792 --> 00:24:00,742
the right, that represents 6% of escalation

425
00:24:00,832 --> 00:24:03,312
per year, which is the current going rate.

426
00:24:03,572 --> 00:24:06,732
When you talk to a contractor or a construction estimator,

427
00:24:07,922 --> 00:24:11,142
that's the number that they use when they're trying to figure out how much a

428
00:24:11,212 --> 00:24:13,332
project is going to cost in the future.

429
00:24:15,452 --> 00:24:19,432
So the change that we made is that when

430
00:24:19,452 --> 00:24:23,192
we first presented this to you, we didn't know which option council was going to

431
00:24:23,252 --> 00:24:26,692
choose. So we just picked a number, and it was 200 million, and that was

432
00:24:26,752 --> 00:24:30,682
our-Baseline number to show how the escalation

433
00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:33,842
is going to change. We've now changed the numbers to reflect

434
00:24:34,602 --> 00:24:37,182
the option that we chose and the cost of what that said.

435
00:24:38,692 --> 00:24:42,222
The other thing that we have done is that the

436
00:24:43,342 --> 00:24:45,802
large blue dot in the middle that says 2027,

437
00:24:47,202 --> 00:24:48,682
if we had started the project

438
00:24:49,782 --> 00:24:52,902
December of 2024, the bid date for

439
00:24:53,002 --> 00:24:56,642
construction would have been in 2027, and the cost of the

440
00:24:56,702 --> 00:24:57,382
project would have been

441
00:24:57,482 --> 00:25:01,342
188. The

442
00:25:01,822 --> 00:25:05,802
orange dot next to it represents the escalation that's

443
00:25:05,842 --> 00:25:09,742
going to happen for us to actually get the project if we started

444
00:25:09,942 --> 00:25:12,522
today. And I want to pause here just for a second.

445
00:25:12,662 --> 00:25:16,582
And Mark, we chose that 2029 number both from

446
00:25:16,622 --> 00:25:20,542
what the design team and construction team needs, but also potential

447
00:25:20,622 --> 00:25:23,002
funding timeline. Is that correct?

448
00:25:23,342 --> 00:25:23,882
That's correct.

449
00:25:24,742 --> 00:25:24,882
Great.

450
00:25:24,962 --> 00:25:26,462
So can I just clarify?

451
00:25:27,222 --> 00:25:27,232
Yes, please.

452
00:25:27,242 --> 00:25:31,002
The 2029, when Ian says starting today, he doesn't mean

453
00:25:31,082 --> 00:25:32,202
starting construction today.

454
00:25:32,232 --> 00:25:32,232
Yeah.

455
00:25:32,242 --> 00:25:36,082
He means starting the process of full design to construction documents today.

456
00:25:36,142 --> 00:25:40,082
Yes. Thanks, Mary. So the giant orange dot in the middle that says

457
00:25:40,142 --> 00:25:43,802
today is if we bid the project today, which of course we

458
00:25:43,862 --> 00:25:45,342
can't because we need time to design.

459
00:25:47,202 --> 00:25:50,662
The last thing I want to point out is the small three dots to the left

460
00:25:51,702 --> 00:25:54,802
represent the past opportunities that the city has

461
00:25:54,882 --> 00:25:56,122
had to

462
00:25:57,022 --> 00:25:58,002
do facilities

463
00:25:59,802 --> 00:26:00,322
master plans.

464
00:26:01,102 --> 00:26:02,842
I bring this every meeting.

465
00:26:03,862 --> 00:26:07,282
Other times, the city has stepped up to the line and stepped away.

466
00:26:08,142 --> 00:26:11,822
And so considering the amount of money that you're considering

467
00:26:12,782 --> 00:26:16,402
spending, that's how much that same money would've been back in

468
00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:18,442
1988.

469
00:26:18,472 --> 00:26:18,472
1988.

470
00:26:18,522 --> 00:26:19,542
Sorry.

471
00:26:19,552 --> 00:26:20,502
2015.

472
00:26:20,512 --> 00:26:21,742
2015.

473
00:26:23,742 --> 00:26:27,702
The last comment I'll make is that because escalation is moving

474
00:26:27,742 --> 00:26:30,952
at 6% per year, that means 5% per month.

475
00:26:31,682 --> 00:26:35,362
And so when you look at the lower orange dot for 2029, it's

476
00:26:35,662 --> 00:26:39,282
1.05 million per month of escalation passed.

477
00:26:40,122 --> 00:26:40,762
You mean point.

478
00:26:40,922 --> 00:26:41,732
Yeah, point. 0.5.

479
00:26:42,102 --> 00:26:42,342
0.5.

480
00:26:42,402 --> 00:26:42,422
I

481
00:26:43,242 --> 00:26:44,162
said 5%. Sorry.

482
00:26:44,482 --> 00:26:47,942
That would be very expensive.

483
00:26:48,102 --> 00:26:51,662
My fault. It's 0.5. But it still represents a really

484
00:26:51,722 --> 00:26:52,682
significant number.

485
00:26:53,522 --> 00:26:54,322
Can I ask a question-

486
00:26:54,502 --> 00:26:54,672
Yes, please

487
00:26:54,782 --> 00:26:56,202
... before we move on from that?

488
00:26:57,472 --> 00:26:57,472
Yes.

489
00:26:58,002 --> 00:27:01,942
Do you feel like the current environment will make that number

490
00:27:02,002 --> 00:27:05,992
change potentially? Or is this average over time through all these

491
00:27:06,022 --> 00:27:09,802
different things, and so it's not likely to change much, or what?

492
00:27:10,482 --> 00:27:11,342
It's a crystal ball.

493
00:27:11,562 --> 00:27:11,882
Yeah.

494
00:27:12,402 --> 00:27:16,202
What I will tell you is that there was another graph that we didn't bring, I

495
00:27:16,242 --> 00:27:19,862
apologize, but it shows the arc of the escalation

496
00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:23,362
from when the Engineering News-Record started calculating it from,

497
00:27:24,062 --> 00:27:27,702
I'm going to get this wrong, it's either 1912 or 1915. Right?

498
00:27:28,162 --> 00:27:31,162
And there's only two times that the number went negative.

499
00:27:31,722 --> 00:27:31,812
Mm-hmm.

500
00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:33,342
Once was the Great Recession

501
00:27:34,162 --> 00:27:35,262
and once was the Great Depression.

502
00:27:35,362 --> 00:27:35,662
Mm-hmm.

503
00:27:36,102 --> 00:27:40,062
As much as you want negative escalation for your project, there

504
00:27:40,072 --> 00:27:40,992
are other consequences-

505
00:27:41,102 --> 00:27:41,322
Sure

506
00:27:41,502 --> 00:27:42,342
... on those scenarios.

507
00:27:44,582 --> 00:27:46,922
We're in a moment of

508
00:27:47,742 --> 00:27:51,182
high volatility, right? And so I

509
00:27:51,382 --> 00:27:52,042
think that

510
00:27:52,942 --> 00:27:56,622
we're holding at 6%, but you can hit a

511
00:27:56,682 --> 00:28:00,322
pocket of time relative to the market where you have spikes.

512
00:28:00,482 --> 00:28:00,762
Okay.

513
00:28:00,802 --> 00:28:03,462
A good example is the last five weeks or so,

514
00:28:04,362 --> 00:28:06,922
with the energy volatility that we've had.

515
00:28:07,002 --> 00:28:08,162
That's kind of what I was getting at.

516
00:28:08,222 --> 00:28:08,462
Yes.

517
00:28:08,522 --> 00:28:08,682
Yeah.

518
00:28:08,742 --> 00:28:10,602
Right. So there's always risk.

519
00:28:10,782 --> 00:28:11,222
Okay.

520
00:28:11,702 --> 00:28:14,762
The fundamental rule is it never goes down.

521
00:28:15,442 --> 00:28:18,022
It may flat line a little bit, but it doesn't go down.

522
00:28:18,102 --> 00:28:18,362
Okay.

523
00:28:19,262 --> 00:28:19,402
Okay.

524
00:28:20,362 --> 00:28:24,162
I want to pause for questions here because I think this is central to

525
00:28:24,882 --> 00:28:27,362
a lot of the scenarios that we're talking about.

526
00:28:28,102 --> 00:28:31,922
Is there anything unclear about this overall idea about the escalation?

527
00:28:33,602 --> 00:28:36,842
Yeah. Ian, just a quick question. The diagram you showed had

528
00:28:37,862 --> 00:28:41,602
civic campus on the south side and police on the north, and we

529
00:28:41,722 --> 00:28:43,322
talked about flipping that.

530
00:28:43,362 --> 00:28:43,552
Mm-hmm.

531
00:28:43,822 --> 00:28:46,842
I suspect that does not materially affect the cost.

532
00:28:46,962 --> 00:28:50,082
But is that a bad assumption or an okay one?

533
00:28:50,342 --> 00:28:51,612
No, I think that's an okay assumption.

534
00:28:51,612 --> 00:28:51,922
Okay.

535
00:28:53,202 --> 00:28:53,482
I

536
00:28:54,442 --> 00:28:57,962
will get to some benefits. I guess it doesn't matter.

537
00:28:58,102 --> 00:28:58,681
You sure?

538
00:28:58,882 --> 00:28:59,562
Yeah. Thank you.

539
00:29:00,022 --> 00:29:01,582
Okay.

540
00:29:02,302 --> 00:29:05,942
Yeah, the original plan that was presented to us was the other way around, and the

541
00:29:06,002 --> 00:29:09,282
council said would it make more sense to have city hall on the south side for, I

542
00:29:09,382 --> 00:29:10,132
think, for sun and

543
00:29:10,982 --> 00:29:11,422
energy.

544
00:29:11,432 --> 00:29:15,342
For sun and one of the options included a future

545
00:29:15,542 --> 00:29:18,022
parking garage, which we didn't go with.

546
00:29:18,822 --> 00:29:20,382
But that was part of the rationale.

547
00:29:20,522 --> 00:29:20,822
Okay.

548
00:29:21,022 --> 00:29:23,922
Mm-hmm. Other thoughts or questions? Yeah.

549
00:29:25,342 --> 00:29:28,982
The thing not shown on this slide is the change in our

550
00:29:29,022 --> 00:29:30,622
ability to pay for these things.

551
00:29:30,642 --> 00:29:30,922
Sure.

552
00:29:31,582 --> 00:29:31,652
I'm

553
00:29:32,502 --> 00:29:34,482
well aware of the fact that revenue

554
00:29:34,502 --> 00:29:38,482
hasn't gone up 6% a

555
00:29:38,522 --> 00:29:39,082
year or so.

556
00:29:39,562 --> 00:29:39,772
Right.

557
00:29:39,822 --> 00:29:42,322
It's separating farther.

558
00:29:42,532 --> 00:29:42,532
Yeah.

559
00:29:42,542 --> 00:29:46,262
But still, that's also not shown, and so that creates

560
00:29:46,302 --> 00:29:47,462
another factor-

561
00:29:47,622 --> 00:29:47,902
Yes

562
00:29:47,922 --> 00:29:49,862
... and it happens over time.

563
00:29:50,262 --> 00:29:53,632
Yeah. And there's another point, and I'll bring it up later, is

564
00:29:53,722 --> 00:29:56,672
that if the construction escalation is at

565
00:29:56,902 --> 00:29:58,702
6% average,

566
00:29:59,742 --> 00:30:03,442
consumer price index is only at 2.8 or between three and

567
00:30:03,502 --> 00:30:07,462
four normally. So public perception of what something

568
00:30:07,482 --> 00:30:11,202
should cost is out of whack because the escalation is

569
00:30:11,242 --> 00:30:12,362
moving at double the rate.

570
00:30:13,142 --> 00:30:13,782
For construction.

571
00:30:13,802 --> 00:30:14,642
For construction.

572
00:30:14,862 --> 00:30:15,042
Yeah.

573
00:30:15,222 --> 00:30:18,722
And so when you talk about talking to the community about funding,

574
00:30:20,642 --> 00:30:24,602
inherently everyone thinks that construction costs way too much because it

575
00:30:24,642 --> 00:30:27,822
doesn't match their day-to-day inflation over time.

576
00:30:28,662 --> 00:30:30,412
So I'll bring that up

577
00:30:30,462 --> 00:30:34,286
again.Okay. I'm going to go ahead and move

578
00:30:34,326 --> 00:30:36,746
forward. We can come back to this diagram if it's helpful.

579
00:30:38,946 --> 00:30:42,206
Okay. So we have a series of implementation strategies.

580
00:30:44,226 --> 00:30:45,666
And we're going to start with

581
00:30:46,826 --> 00:30:50,346
the common impacts of the whole vision being

582
00:30:50,426 --> 00:30:54,266
finished. And that is both the civic campus

583
00:30:54,286 --> 00:30:57,686
and the police station have been built on Madison with a plaza.

584
00:30:59,406 --> 00:31:03,006
And so when that is complete, whenever,

585
00:31:03,046 --> 00:31:04,886
whatever sort of sequence that happens,

586
00:31:06,106 --> 00:31:09,806
we've established the 100-year Madison Avenue vision to move a central civic hub

587
00:31:09,846 --> 00:31:13,446
downtown. For those of you who don't know, it has been a 100-year

588
00:31:13,486 --> 00:31:17,406
vision to make Madison a major pedestrian thoroughfare

589
00:31:17,526 --> 00:31:20,966
from the gates of campus down to the river, and that the

590
00:31:21,606 --> 00:31:24,486
civic heart of the city is located at the Mocade Lawn.

591
00:31:25,266 --> 00:31:29,186
And it's been in different spots, depending on which version of that plan has

592
00:31:29,226 --> 00:31:32,766
existed, but this actually puts it square

593
00:31:33,286 --> 00:31:36,986
on Madison. It also puts it at the gateway position to downtown.

594
00:31:37,486 --> 00:31:41,086
So if someone's coming from campus to the river, the first thing that they hit when

595
00:31:41,126 --> 00:31:43,896
they get to downtown is a civic idea.

596
00:31:46,446 --> 00:31:50,406
The next is that the project contributes to downtown vitality, the daily activity

597
00:31:50,446 --> 00:31:52,506
from employees, visitors, and civic functions.

598
00:31:52,986 --> 00:31:55,986
When we talk about civic functions, you have residents who are coming to this

599
00:31:56,026 --> 00:31:59,646
facility both to seek services, but also to use

600
00:32:01,006 --> 00:32:04,846
the further down point of gathering spaces and

601
00:32:04,886 --> 00:32:05,986
attending civic events.

602
00:32:07,966 --> 00:32:11,486
We maintain public safety and city administration at the center of the community.

603
00:32:12,086 --> 00:32:15,026
We haven't relocated to some other location.

604
00:32:15,186 --> 00:32:19,046
Other communities have found cheaper land outside of city limits, or not

605
00:32:19,106 --> 00:32:21,666
outside city limits, but outside downtown cores.

606
00:32:22,086 --> 00:32:24,706
This keeps it as sort of vital to downtown.

607
00:32:26,226 --> 00:32:30,166
We've created opportunities for public gathering space and civic events in the

608
00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:34,166
downtown core, which again, brings people here, who then when they finish

609
00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:37,846
with that, they go shopping. They go down, grab a bite to eat, grab a cup of

610
00:32:37,866 --> 00:32:38,006
coffee.

611
00:32:40,346 --> 00:32:44,326
One thing that has happened between when we last spoke and now

612
00:32:44,486 --> 00:32:48,286
is that you've had the Downtown Vitality Strategic Task

613
00:32:48,346 --> 00:32:52,246
Force, and they have been looking at what the opportunities are

614
00:32:52,326 --> 00:32:56,206
to bring more vitality to downtown, and I think that's

615
00:32:56,406 --> 00:32:59,746
somewhat timely because I believe these goals were just presented to you recently.

616
00:33:01,906 --> 00:33:05,626
We've sort of gone back and looked at those and seen how these projects sort of

617
00:33:06,046 --> 00:33:06,906
plug into that.

618
00:33:09,446 --> 00:33:13,376
They plug in directly because some of the goals are, "Hey, let's do the

619
00:33:13,426 --> 00:33:15,866
civic campus downtown, let's do the police station downtown."

620
00:33:16,926 --> 00:33:20,426
But there are some that are less tangential or sorry, more tangential than

621
00:33:20,486 --> 00:33:21,026
others.

622
00:33:23,066 --> 00:33:26,326
There's a desire for an economic boost, right?

623
00:33:26,506 --> 00:33:27,426
Keeping the

624
00:33:28,886 --> 00:33:32,846
staff downtown to be able to support businesses during lunch hours and things

625
00:33:32,866 --> 00:33:36,406
like that, both for city hall staff and also

626
00:33:36,466 --> 00:33:39,946
for the police. That's a direct economic

627
00:33:40,566 --> 00:33:40,576
boost.

628
00:33:41,446 --> 00:33:45,036
Also when there are community events, that you're bringing more people

629
00:33:45,226 --> 00:33:46,646
downtown, it's the same thing.

630
00:33:48,366 --> 00:33:52,286
On that topic of economic boost, one of the other goals within the task

631
00:33:52,366 --> 00:33:53,306
force is housing.

632
00:33:54,306 --> 00:33:57,486
Most housing, if not all housing, even

633
00:33:57,986 --> 00:34:01,846
affordable housing, is still driven primarily by private development.

634
00:34:02,566 --> 00:34:06,006
Private development is looking for spaces that are vital,

635
00:34:06,886 --> 00:34:08,917
the old adage of location, location, location-

636
00:34:09,026 --> 00:34:09,187
Mm.

637
00:34:09,406 --> 00:34:11,756
Because it helps them keep their vacancy rates down.

638
00:34:12,426 --> 00:34:16,326
So the more active downtown can be and more desirable to live, the more

639
00:34:16,366 --> 00:34:18,846
likely you can encourage that investment to house.

640
00:34:20,426 --> 00:34:23,946
A lot of the downtown goals also focus

641
00:34:24,086 --> 00:34:28,026
on quality of street experience. What happens with the infrastructure, how do

642
00:34:28,046 --> 00:34:31,946
we improve the sidewalks, the curbs, lighting, all the things that go

643
00:34:32,006 --> 00:34:32,826
along the street scene.

644
00:34:34,266 --> 00:34:38,167
The opportunity to do the plaza first and set the standard

645
00:34:38,226 --> 00:34:41,955
that the rest of the street might follow, I think is a pretty

646
00:34:42,406 --> 00:34:44,366
great opportunity.

647
00:34:45,586 --> 00:34:47,566
The notion of social infrastructure.

648
00:34:49,365 --> 00:34:52,026
If anyone was able to go to the

649
00:34:52,226 --> 00:34:55,326
2022 League of Oregon Cities keynote,

650
00:34:56,306 --> 00:34:59,446
Eric Klinenberg, who is the author of "Palaces for the People."

651
00:34:59,566 --> 00:34:59,846
Mm.

652
00:35:00,486 --> 00:35:01,966
He talks a lot about-

653
00:35:02,146 --> 00:35:03,126
One of my favorite books.

654
00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,226
Absolutely. It's great.

655
00:35:05,266 --> 00:35:06,746
He talks a lot about

656
00:35:07,726 --> 00:35:11,126
how we are slowly losing what we call social infrastructure,

657
00:35:11,706 --> 00:35:15,296
and it's really what we call third spaces. Mark, you and I have talked about that.

658
00:35:15,366 --> 00:35:18,426
It's the spaces that people can interact where they don't have to spend a dime,

659
00:35:19,106 --> 00:35:21,506
right? Libraries are one of the last examples of that.

660
00:35:24,386 --> 00:35:28,246
He makes a case in his book and in the keynote that he gave, that not

661
00:35:28,306 --> 00:35:31,875
only are those things nice to have for a community, they're actually

662
00:35:31,926 --> 00:35:35,046
inherently needed within social

663
00:35:35,086 --> 00:35:38,726
resilience. So the example that the book starts out with is, as

664
00:35:39,206 --> 00:35:42,616
Carolyn would probably know, is when there is

665
00:35:43,246 --> 00:35:44,266
a community crisis,

666
00:35:45,086 --> 00:35:49,006
the communities that do the best are when the neighbors go next door and knock on

667
00:35:49,026 --> 00:35:51,226
it and make sure that that person's okay.

668
00:35:51,866 --> 00:35:55,136
We need more opportunities for people to interact, to build relationships,

669
00:35:55,706 --> 00:35:58,646
and that fosters a stronger, more resilient community.

670
00:35:59,546 --> 00:36:03,166
Playing back to our project, notion of the plaza,

671
00:36:03,366 --> 00:36:06,946
notion of the public meeting spaces within City Hall, those are

672
00:36:07,026 --> 00:36:10,026
in direct support of that idea.

673
00:36:11,566 --> 00:36:15,316
Lastly, sustainability, and it dovetails with the final bullet on the slide,

674
00:36:16,086 --> 00:36:16,496
is that

675
00:36:17,526 --> 00:36:21,046
the goal for sustainable development downtown, the city has the

676
00:36:21,106 --> 00:36:24,606
opportunity to set the standard with what those projects can be,

677
00:36:25,046 --> 00:36:28,896
both in terms of quality, energy efficiency, opportunities

678
00:36:28,946 --> 00:36:29,866
for solar panels,

679
00:36:31,846 --> 00:36:32,246
and

680
00:36:33,126 --> 00:36:36,646
just reinforcing that message to private development that may happen in

681
00:36:36,686 --> 00:36:43,216
downtownSo

682
00:36:43,276 --> 00:36:47,236
if those are common to the end result, these are common to

683
00:36:47,276 --> 00:36:50,766
what the implementation looks like, and if there

684
00:36:50,856 --> 00:36:53,796
are delays in time, because that's really what we're

685
00:36:54,596 --> 00:36:58,196
focusing on. So as I mentioned before, we have construction cost

686
00:36:58,256 --> 00:37:01,756
escalation calculated at 6% per year or

687
00:37:01,796 --> 00:37:02,776
0.5 per

688
00:37:03,676 --> 00:37:03,976
month.

689
00:37:05,636 --> 00:37:09,336
To get an apples to apples comparisons along these strategies,

690
00:37:09,516 --> 00:37:13,216
we've used a time scale of eight years between projects if we

691
00:37:13,316 --> 00:37:13,716
phase.

692
00:37:14,716 --> 00:37:16,536
And we've done that for a couple of reasons.

693
00:37:17,116 --> 00:37:17,396
One,

694
00:37:19,676 --> 00:37:20,516
make sure I get this right.

695
00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:25,636
You're probably not going to start the second project until

696
00:37:25,696 --> 00:37:29,536
you've completed the first. So that's at minimum, that's three years there.

697
00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:33,856
You're likely probably going to have another funding conversation once you've

698
00:37:33,896 --> 00:37:36,836
done that. And so that's another year or two.

699
00:37:37,296 --> 00:37:41,196
And so all of a sudden you're five to 10 in your

700
00:37:41,216 --> 00:37:42,946
potential delay. And

701
00:37:44,296 --> 00:37:46,126
it's an arbitrary number to a certain degree.

702
00:37:46,256 --> 00:37:49,776
Council can decide to do whatever they want, but for the purposes of this

703
00:37:49,816 --> 00:37:53,096
evaluation, that's what we've used across the scale.

704
00:37:55,576 --> 00:37:59,086
Depending on how long you delay, there are other

705
00:37:59,096 --> 00:38:01,596
factors that can jeopardize final implementation.

706
00:38:03,296 --> 00:38:05,546
Long delays can overlap council elections,

707
00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:10,476
right? You have an opportunity to work together, to get these projects

708
00:38:10,496 --> 00:38:11,336
done.

709
00:38:12,336 --> 00:38:15,996
It's not to say that a future council won't have similar objectives,

710
00:38:16,476 --> 00:38:20,376
but it's a shift, it's a change, and it's ultimately a

711
00:38:20,396 --> 00:38:22,996
risk to whether something gets fully implemented or not.

712
00:38:24,796 --> 00:38:28,336
Multiple funding asks can lead to voter fatigue depending on what the

713
00:38:28,376 --> 00:38:32,156
funding solutions are. The more times that you go

714
00:38:32,256 --> 00:38:35,856
back, the more difficult the conversation can become.

715
00:38:36,236 --> 00:38:39,396
And I'll talk a little bit about that to get deeper into it.

716
00:38:41,776 --> 00:38:45,296
In any of these options, City Hall staff need to relocate

717
00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:50,076
because fundamentally City Hall is being removed in the

718
00:38:50,136 --> 00:38:53,906
options, and so City Hall staff has to go someplace while that's

719
00:38:53,996 --> 00:38:55,676
happening. The cost and

720
00:38:57,356 --> 00:39:00,656
duration of the relocation is impacted by which option you choose.

721
00:39:02,776 --> 00:39:05,136
In any option where the police station is delayed,

722
00:39:05,976 --> 00:39:08,696
resilient temporary facilities need to be created.

723
00:39:09,376 --> 00:39:13,076
Law enforcement building is in really dire straits, and so

724
00:39:13,296 --> 00:39:16,936
moving the police to a temporary facility has

725
00:39:17,336 --> 00:39:20,476
pretty significant cost implications because a

726
00:39:20,536 --> 00:39:24,356
temporary construction for police requires a lot more

727
00:39:24,416 --> 00:39:28,326
technical construction. They have things like holding cells and evidence

728
00:39:28,396 --> 00:39:31,516
management that just is more expensive to build.

729
00:39:34,016 --> 00:39:37,996
Lastly, over time, building and regulatory code changes

730
00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,636
can occur, which can drive costs that you can't

731
00:39:40,696 --> 00:39:42,376
anticipate.

732
00:39:49,456 --> 00:39:53,056
When we were evaluating if both projects are moving

733
00:39:53,076 --> 00:39:56,596
together or they stagger, we've gone and talked to

734
00:39:56,816 --> 00:40:00,116
contractors to understand what the impacts and

735
00:40:00,196 --> 00:40:03,776
efficiencies might be for the benefits going

736
00:40:03,916 --> 00:40:05,936
together or independently.

737
00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:11,356
So if projects move together, a single project has less startup

738
00:40:11,416 --> 00:40:13,116
mobilization and shutdown costs.

739
00:40:13,276 --> 00:40:16,336
What that means is every time a project starts up, they need to bring in the job

740
00:40:16,396 --> 00:40:18,076
trailer, they need to get crews on board.

741
00:40:19,116 --> 00:40:22,896
There are costs inherent to that. And they're

742
00:40:22,906 --> 00:40:26,376
not insignificant, but they're worth sort of mentioning.

743
00:40:28,196 --> 00:40:30,356
Larger projects have a greater economy of scale.

744
00:40:30,936 --> 00:40:34,716
You get greater efficiencies over a larger project than if you have smaller

745
00:40:34,796 --> 00:40:35,516
or two smaller.

746
00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:41,096
The process of procuring, managing

747
00:40:41,396 --> 00:40:45,266
subcontractors on a job, if you only have to do it once, it's easier.

748
00:40:45,316 --> 00:40:49,096
If you have a bigger project, you can move and stagger workflows around.

749
00:40:50,556 --> 00:40:54,116
A single project has greater efficiency, general contractor supervision,

750
00:40:54,416 --> 00:40:55,816
temporary safety and security.

751
00:40:56,896 --> 00:40:59,696
These are the day-to-day management of

752
00:40:59,736 --> 00:41:03,576
relative to security, onsite management,

753
00:41:04,335 --> 00:41:08,156
I should say, because they're ability to share equipment, material staging.

754
00:41:08,776 --> 00:41:12,486
Material staging particular is one on an urban site we have to be pretty

755
00:41:12,536 --> 00:41:13,736
thoughtful about.

756
00:41:15,476 --> 00:41:18,906
Avoid duplicate costs for tapping utilities and doing street right of way work.

757
00:41:19,316 --> 00:41:23,026
If you've completed one project and you've connected to the water main, and all of

758
00:41:23,056 --> 00:41:25,746
a sudden you start the next one, you've got to go dig up the sidewalk and do it

759
00:41:25,776 --> 00:41:26,076
again.

760
00:41:27,676 --> 00:41:31,516
And then lastly, there's only one disruption to the downtown

761
00:41:31,556 --> 00:41:35,436
neighborhood. Projects of these scales are going to impact traffic in

762
00:41:35,476 --> 00:41:36,016
the area,

763
00:41:37,436 --> 00:41:41,156
and contractors are really great about managing noise, but there is

764
00:41:41,176 --> 00:41:42,216
disruption overall.

765
00:41:46,236 --> 00:41:50,016
Okay, so we have four implementation strategies, and I'm going to

766
00:41:50,056 --> 00:41:52,516
walk through the pros and cons of each.

767
00:41:53,276 --> 00:41:54,696
And then at the bottom is

768
00:41:56,176 --> 00:41:57,295
total cost.

769
00:41:58,976 --> 00:41:59,236
So

770
00:42:00,116 --> 00:42:02,796
in the case where we move both projects together,

771
00:42:04,276 --> 00:42:07,636
Civic Campus staff return after a short-term lease.

772
00:42:08,256 --> 00:42:10,416
They're out of downtown for the least amount of time.

773
00:42:11,096 --> 00:42:14,536
Police are able to remain in the law enforcement building while construction is

774
00:42:14,596 --> 00:42:15,256
completed.

775
00:42:17,076 --> 00:42:21,056
You address the two aging facilities simultaneously, reducing the

776
00:42:21,096 --> 00:42:24,476
long-term facility risk of various issues.

777
00:42:25,356 --> 00:42:28,846
Allows shared infrastructure site development efficiencies, as we were just talking

778
00:42:28,916 --> 00:42:30,156
about, between the two projects.

779
00:42:31,956 --> 00:42:35,436
Immediately implements downtown vitality task force goals.

780
00:42:35,896 --> 00:42:39,316
The things that have been just brought to you can come to fruition much

781
00:42:39,576 --> 00:42:41,836
quicker and support downtown faster.

782
00:42:43,536 --> 00:42:47,296
Avoids future construction escalation, which is the topic we were just

783
00:42:47,336 --> 00:42:47,976
talking about.

784
00:42:49,836 --> 00:42:52,236
Allows for a new approach to underground parking garage.

785
00:42:52,296 --> 00:42:53,956
I'll get to that in a second.

786
00:42:54,956 --> 00:42:57,676
And then this is the least total cost to implement.

787
00:42:58,076 --> 00:43:01,936
If you look at the full picture of council vision, this is

788
00:43:01,996 --> 00:43:04,396
the most cost-effective way to get it done.

789
00:43:06,076 --> 00:43:09,696
The con here is that it is the highest initial

790
00:43:09,756 --> 00:43:10,616
capital cost.

791
00:43:15,156 --> 00:43:17,276
So parking. I mentioned here,

792
00:43:17,456 --> 00:43:21,276
allows for new

793
00:43:21,296 --> 00:43:22,356
approach to underground parking.

794
00:43:23,596 --> 00:43:26,456
So initially, when we brought this vision to

795
00:43:27,356 --> 00:43:27,756
council,

796
00:43:28,576 --> 00:43:31,896
because we were designing a public safety building, the biggest challenge to public

797
00:43:31,956 --> 00:43:35,536
safety is they have a lot of vehicles, and they have to find a place to put them.

798
00:43:37,136 --> 00:43:41,036
It can take significant amount of acreage, as John and I both know from working on

799
00:43:41,076 --> 00:43:44,556
lots of public safety buildings, to accommodate their fleets.

800
00:43:45,096 --> 00:43:48,996
And so when we designed the public safety building, initially, we ended up going

801
00:43:49,036 --> 00:43:52,616
two and a half to three floors below grade

802
00:43:53,076 --> 00:43:54,576
to create below grade parkings.

803
00:43:56,116 --> 00:43:59,836
That's not the most expensive effort

804
00:44:00,316 --> 00:44:03,776
overall, and given how tight these sites are,

805
00:44:04,236 --> 00:44:05,316
it's pretty inefficient.

806
00:44:06,176 --> 00:44:09,816
Once you start to ramp down and try to get multiple ramps going down, you eat up a

807
00:44:09,896 --> 00:44:13,576
lot of that square footage. When we realized that we

808
00:44:14,016 --> 00:44:17,876
could potentially have both projects moving in at once, the opportunity is to

809
00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:19,006
do a larger,

810
00:44:20,236 --> 00:44:23,616
shallower parking structure that goes all the way underneath Madison

811
00:44:23,656 --> 00:44:25,976
Avenue and ties Civic Campus together.

812
00:44:27,696 --> 00:44:29,776
You wouldn't do this type of approach piece.

813
00:44:30,516 --> 00:44:33,976
It would cause a level of complexity that would just drive costs up.

814
00:44:34,456 --> 00:44:38,036
And so the benefit here is that you likely have enough

815
00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:41,956
space for the secure parking needs of public safety

816
00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:42,436
folks.

817
00:44:43,276 --> 00:44:47,216
We also have the potential for additional parking that is outside of that secure

818
00:44:47,336 --> 00:44:50,936
zone that could be separate. Whether that's for staff, for the public,

819
00:44:51,296 --> 00:44:51,836
that's all for

820
00:44:53,376 --> 00:44:54,156
you to determine.

821
00:44:55,656 --> 00:44:58,496
But of this implementation option one,

822
00:44:59,336 --> 00:45:01,816
we can sort of potentially pull off this scenario.

823
00:45:05,976 --> 00:45:07,796
And so, this is

824
00:45:08,816 --> 00:45:10,056
basically what that looks like

825
00:45:11,196 --> 00:45:14,826
after everything's done at once, and this is what you get.

826
00:45:15,536 --> 00:45:16,976
Now, a couple of caveats here.

827
00:45:18,756 --> 00:45:20,296
This is not what the buildings will look like.

828
00:45:21,176 --> 00:45:23,986
We haven't designed them yet. Any

829
00:45:25,696 --> 00:45:29,636
design of a public building, once the project moves forward, we work really

830
00:45:29,716 --> 00:45:33,165
hard to do community engagement, to engage the community in how these buildings

831
00:45:33,216 --> 00:45:34,236
should look and feel.

832
00:45:35,556 --> 00:45:39,516
So we needed to provide an idea or a vision to council and

833
00:45:39,556 --> 00:45:41,316
the public just to get a sense of something.

834
00:45:41,996 --> 00:45:45,516
So if you don't like the window pattern, it's okay.

835
00:45:45,556 --> 00:45:47,196
It's not going to be this at the end of the day.

836
00:45:48,736 --> 00:45:52,656
But what you do see here is that potential for these

837
00:45:52,716 --> 00:45:56,396
two projects working together with the plaza space in between

838
00:45:56,976 --> 00:45:59,716
and that further connection on Madison.

839
00:45:59,756 --> 00:46:03,566
This is looking down towards the river and the OB development that's

840
00:46:03,616 --> 00:46:04,476
underway right now.

841
00:46:10,336 --> 00:46:12,456
So implementation strategy number two

842
00:46:13,276 --> 00:46:17,116
says if you build the public station first, and you delay the Civic

843
00:46:17,136 --> 00:46:21,116
Campus. And again, we're talking of a delay just for the point of numbers of

844
00:46:21,156 --> 00:46:21,626
eight.

845
00:46:22,656 --> 00:46:26,476
Whatever council decides at that point is up to you, but eight

846
00:46:26,496 --> 00:46:28,236
years is the benchmark that we're doing this.

847
00:46:28,776 --> 00:46:29,156
That's it.

848
00:46:29,376 --> 00:46:33,156
So the benefits here is that you've dealt with the public safety building first,

849
00:46:33,256 --> 00:46:36,356
which is pretty critical relative to operational

850
00:46:36,436 --> 00:46:40,126
effectiveness for them and resilience for police services.

851
00:46:41,516 --> 00:46:44,836
You have a lower initial capital investment because you're only building one of the

852
00:46:44,876 --> 00:46:45,306
buildings.

853
00:46:47,076 --> 00:46:49,506
You maintain at least one civic anchor while you're

854
00:46:50,456 --> 00:46:52,056
getting these facility needs solved.

855
00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:57,076
It allows the city to phase the major capital investments over time

856
00:46:57,936 --> 00:47:01,836
and improves emergency resilience through getting the 911 facility

857
00:47:01,896 --> 00:47:04,256
into a new building sooner.

858
00:47:06,456 --> 00:47:10,195
The cons are is that your civic vision is only half

859
00:47:10,236 --> 00:47:10,816
realized.

860
00:47:12,996 --> 00:47:16,656
City administration moves out of downtown for an

861
00:47:16,696 --> 00:47:20,546
undetermined amount of time, whether it's eight years or whatever the length of

862
00:47:20,546 --> 00:47:24,536
time this ends up being. They're someplace else,

863
00:47:24,676 --> 00:47:27,936
and the community is going someplace else besides downtown during

864
00:47:27,976 --> 00:47:30,316
that time period.

865
00:47:31,536 --> 00:47:33,386
There's a risk that the full Civic Hub

866
00:47:34,316 --> 00:47:38,216
vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of the delay risks that we

867
00:47:38,256 --> 00:47:42,206
talked about earlier. There's a missed opportunity for

868
00:47:42,256 --> 00:47:45,456
the shared site efficiencies, construction efficiencies that we talked about.

869
00:47:46,796 --> 00:47:47,376
We're now

870
00:47:48,916 --> 00:47:52,576
delaying parts of the Downtown Vitality Task Force goals

871
00:47:53,036 --> 00:47:56,736
because we don't have that civic space that's going to

872
00:47:56,796 --> 00:47:59,896
encourage people to come in.

873
00:48:01,276 --> 00:48:01,856
And lastly,

874
00:48:03,036 --> 00:48:05,356
because city hall staff are

875
00:48:05,516 --> 00:48:09,126
in a lease condition

876
00:48:09,176 --> 00:48:11,336
someplace else, you have higher lease costs.

877
00:48:12,916 --> 00:48:16,896
So the overall cost to implement this one total is

878
00:48:16,906 --> 00:48:20,866
$267 million. It's $116.6

879
00:48:20,896 --> 00:48:24,336
million for the police station when you first build it,

880
00:48:24,856 --> 00:48:28,356
but then because of that escalation, Civic Campus now costs

881
00:48:28,366 --> 00:48:29,996
$151 million to build.

882
00:48:31,596 --> 00:48:34,116
Can I ask a detail question?

883
00:48:34,146 --> 00:48:34,146
Yes, please.

884
00:48:34,156 --> 00:48:35,656
Just because I'm super curious.

885
00:48:35,976 --> 00:48:36,156
Yeah.

886
00:48:36,416 --> 00:48:40,036
You talk about this brilliant idea of having the garage go all the way across.

887
00:48:40,096 --> 00:48:40,236
Sure.

888
00:48:40,816 --> 00:48:43,156
How does building them one at a time affect that?

889
00:48:43,336 --> 00:48:47,276
Because you can

890
00:48:47,316 --> 00:48:48,816
only build half, right?

891
00:48:48,996 --> 00:48:50,856
You don't really have that option anymore.

892
00:48:50,956 --> 00:48:51,216
Okay.

893
00:48:51,656 --> 00:48:55,628
Yeah.I guess the add-on to that is the

894
00:48:55,728 --> 00:48:59,668
secure parking need for the police wouldn't fit in a

895
00:48:59,748 --> 00:49:01,188
one-story parking garage-

896
00:49:01,258 --> 00:49:02,088
... under the PD.

897
00:49:02,408 --> 00:49:02,488
Right.

898
00:49:02,788 --> 00:49:05,348
So they wouldn't have their fleet needs meet K1.

899
00:49:05,648 --> 00:49:08,228
But would it fit under the police and the plaza?

900
00:49:09,188 --> 00:49:10,328
It could potentially.

901
00:49:11,168 --> 00:49:12,948
That's something that would need to be studied.

902
00:49:13,138 --> 00:49:13,308
Mm.

903
00:49:13,588 --> 00:49:15,408
I think the reality of

904
00:49:16,768 --> 00:49:20,108
the plaza's function goes best with the Civic Campus.

905
00:49:20,588 --> 00:49:21,028
And so

906
00:49:21,908 --> 00:49:24,948
even if you, to your point, Council Elmes, if you built

907
00:49:26,328 --> 00:49:30,248
two-thirds of that parking, building that last third gets really challenging

908
00:49:31,288 --> 00:49:33,368
in sort of making those connections to it.

909
00:49:37,468 --> 00:49:41,148
But you believe you would meet the parking

910
00:49:41,228 --> 00:49:43,188
requirements for the police station?

911
00:49:43,468 --> 00:49:45,528
We don't even see. We have to verify that.

912
00:49:49,268 --> 00:49:49,908
Yeah.

913
00:49:50,468 --> 00:49:50,708
So

914
00:49:52,208 --> 00:49:56,048
the new public safety building is built, the street remains the

915
00:49:56,108 --> 00:49:56,428
same.

916
00:49:57,808 --> 00:50:01,668
The idea being that the remaining facilities, the buildings

917
00:50:01,728 --> 00:50:04,608
that we're in, is no longer occupied by city staff.

918
00:50:04,858 --> 00:50:06,708
They've now moved to another location.

919
00:50:07,668 --> 00:50:07,768
You

920
00:50:09,128 --> 00:50:12,928
really don't need these facilities anymore from a city

921
00:50:13,008 --> 00:50:13,648
standpoint.

922
00:50:14,688 --> 00:50:18,188
Whether you decide to try and lease them or something, that's on you.

923
00:50:18,268 --> 00:50:21,748
But having that capability to use that site as staging

924
00:50:22,168 --> 00:50:26,088
and not have to maintain these buildings anymore suggests that you might just

925
00:50:26,108 --> 00:50:28,188
take them down. And so you have a

926
00:50:29,768 --> 00:50:30,848
partially realized vision.

927
00:50:31,968 --> 00:50:34,688
Well, and also just to add to that,

928
00:50:36,888 --> 00:50:40,808
our direction as staff is to construct

929
00:50:40,948 --> 00:50:43,888
the council's direction, which is two buildings at some point in time.

930
00:50:44,208 --> 00:50:48,088
And so by taking the buildings down, you're setting the stage for that to be able

931
00:50:48,108 --> 00:50:48,608
to happen

932
00:50:49,908 --> 00:50:52,828
more efficiently when the time comes for the second building to happen.

933
00:50:52,838 --> 00:50:53,218
Absolutely.

934
00:50:53,368 --> 00:50:53,508
Yeah.

935
00:50:56,908 --> 00:51:00,708
Question. Where does the staging occur in just building the police

936
00:51:00,748 --> 00:51:01,187
building?

937
00:51:02,728 --> 00:51:06,508
We could have it on the back, some on the backside of the law

938
00:51:06,548 --> 00:51:09,528
enforcement building or the police station building, but you've got your

939
00:51:09,588 --> 00:51:10,828
transportation hub is there.

940
00:51:11,928 --> 00:51:15,868
It can happen in the plaza, but you're going to be working on

941
00:51:15,928 --> 00:51:17,688
both buildings and then do the plaza last.

942
00:51:18,128 --> 00:51:20,048
It's a question for the contractor overall.

943
00:51:20,528 --> 00:51:22,788
You're not going to obviously impact

944
00:51:23,648 --> 00:51:27,608
6th because of the train going by. You don't want to impact 5th because

945
00:51:27,628 --> 00:51:29,128
it's kind of a major through repair.

946
00:51:29,828 --> 00:51:33,028
It's going to be a difficult site regardless in either option.

947
00:51:33,548 --> 00:51:35,508
I think there is advantage to stage-

948
00:51:35,808 --> 00:51:35,817
Yes

949
00:51:35,817 --> 00:51:37,308
... on the right-hand side there.

950
00:51:37,388 --> 00:51:37,588
Right.

951
00:51:37,748 --> 00:51:38,848
Right where we're sitting here.

952
00:51:39,888 --> 00:51:40,288
Yeah.

953
00:51:40,317 --> 00:51:40,317
Yeah.

954
00:51:40,388 --> 00:51:40,848
Good point.

955
00:51:41,468 --> 00:51:41,828
Yeah.

956
00:51:43,448 --> 00:51:47,408
But then the question arises, if you phase it, where do

957
00:51:47,448 --> 00:51:49,508
you stage for building the second half?

958
00:51:49,648 --> 00:51:49,788
Right.

959
00:51:49,928 --> 00:51:51,788
Whichever building it is that comes first.

960
00:51:52,528 --> 00:51:53,848
Exactly. Now you have a problem.

961
00:51:54,008 --> 00:51:56,858
Yeah. Basically, staging is going to be a problem whatever you do.

962
00:51:56,858 --> 00:51:57,708
Whichever .

963
00:52:02,648 --> 00:52:06,188
So, implementation strategy three is you reverse

964
00:52:06,198 --> 00:52:10,128
that. You do the Civic Campus first, and you

965
00:52:11,008 --> 00:52:12,078
phase the police station.

966
00:52:13,188 --> 00:52:13,788
In this case,

967
00:52:14,688 --> 00:52:17,537
you're reinforcing the civic presence and identity downtown.

968
00:52:18,808 --> 00:52:20,788
Civic staff return to downtown sooner.

969
00:52:22,408 --> 00:52:25,948
It improves administration efficiency and service delivery for the city operations

970
00:52:25,968 --> 00:52:28,468
when they're downtown, closer to where people are.

971
00:52:29,868 --> 00:52:33,348
Supports downtown vitality through daily staff and visitor

972
00:52:33,428 --> 00:52:36,228
activity. Again, more people coming to the building.

973
00:52:37,088 --> 00:52:40,068
Establish as part of the Civic Campus framework,

974
00:52:41,168 --> 00:52:44,828
all of it, and then lower initial capital costs similar

975
00:52:44,948 --> 00:52:46,388
to phasing the police station.

976
00:52:48,068 --> 00:52:48,468
Initial

977
00:52:49,468 --> 00:52:49,537
capital costs.

978
00:52:49,808 --> 00:52:51,668
Initial capital costs. Appreciate that.

979
00:52:53,728 --> 00:52:57,138
The cons here is the police department relocates for an undetermined amount of

980
00:52:57,168 --> 00:53:00,728
time. As we talked about, the longer portion of the building is very

981
00:53:00,768 --> 00:53:02,848
challenging from a resilient standpoint.

982
00:53:04,008 --> 00:53:07,968
The renovation of temporary public safety facility is expensive, as we mentioned.

983
00:53:08,028 --> 00:53:11,788
If you try to move the police someplace temporarily, you're building a lot more

984
00:53:11,808 --> 00:53:14,567
expensive construction to house them in that location.

985
00:53:15,488 --> 00:53:19,468
The full civic hub vision becomes more difficult to achieve because of

986
00:53:19,508 --> 00:53:20,388
the delay

987
00:53:21,208 --> 00:53:22,188
risks that we talked about.

988
00:53:23,128 --> 00:53:26,668
And the civic vision remains incomplete for an extended period

989
00:53:27,048 --> 00:53:30,928
of time. Missed opportunity to strengthen community interaction with public

990
00:53:31,028 --> 00:53:34,668
safety. So as architects who design public

991
00:53:34,748 --> 00:53:35,788
safety facilities,

992
00:53:36,768 --> 00:53:40,308
one of the things that we are often trying to do within municipal police

993
00:53:40,388 --> 00:53:44,188
stations is create opportunities for police to

994
00:53:44,248 --> 00:53:47,168
interact with the public outside of a 911 call.

995
00:53:47,948 --> 00:53:51,808
That is a huge part of relations between residents

996
00:53:51,888 --> 00:53:54,088
and public safety staff.

997
00:53:54,928 --> 00:53:58,788
And anything that we can do that encourages the

998
00:53:58,808 --> 00:54:02,028
police to be walking to shops downtown to grab lunch-

999
00:54:02,848 --> 00:54:03,508
Yeah

1000
00:54:03,518 --> 00:54:06,268
... in between shifts, whatever it is that we can do to

1001
00:54:07,648 --> 00:54:11,208
normalize interactions there, we look for that opportunity wherever we

1002
00:54:11,728 --> 00:54:15,648
can. Because we've paired these two projects together, however they're

1003
00:54:15,708 --> 00:54:18,528
implemented, there's a lot of potential for that to happen here.

1004
00:54:20,848 --> 00:54:24,758
Question. So this, the cost does include the renovation of the

1005
00:54:24,828 --> 00:54:26,008
temporary public-

1006
00:54:26,268 --> 00:54:26,828
This does not.

1007
00:54:26,968 --> 00:54:27,548
Does not.

1008
00:54:27,618 --> 00:54:30,968
Does not. This is just the cost to implement this vision.

1009
00:54:31,868 --> 00:54:31,957
Okay.

1010
00:54:32,008 --> 00:54:35,748
None of these include any sort of lease, long-term or short-term.

1011
00:54:35,808 --> 00:54:38,888
Okay. So I think it's an important point to

1012
00:54:39,208 --> 00:54:39,948
relocating

1013
00:54:40,848 --> 00:54:44,448
administrative staff temporarily is one cost X, yet

1014
00:54:44,488 --> 00:54:48,348
relocating police and building the supporting structure for that

1015
00:54:48,408 --> 00:54:50,088
is multiple X.

1016
00:54:50,228 --> 00:54:50,428
Yes.

1017
00:54:50,808 --> 00:54:51,168
Okay.

1018
00:54:52,408 --> 00:54:52,948
Sure.

1019
00:54:52,988 --> 00:54:54,968
Are these numbers in

1020
00:54:56,108 --> 00:54:59,888
the second number on that, is there anyAttempt to

1021
00:54:59,908 --> 00:55:03,708
adjust for inflation. If you assume, obviously money is

1022
00:55:03,748 --> 00:55:04,608
not going to be...

1023
00:55:05,668 --> 00:55:06,848
Inflation's going to happen.

1024
00:55:07,048 --> 00:55:07,248
Right.

1025
00:55:07,548 --> 00:55:11,268
So in real dollar terms, when you build the second one,

1026
00:55:12,148 --> 00:55:13,448
185 is-

1027
00:55:14,208 --> 00:55:14,628
Right

1028
00:55:14,648 --> 00:55:18,568
... is current dollars then, and you make no assumptions about

1029
00:55:18,708 --> 00:55:19,748
actual inflation-

1030
00:55:19,888 --> 00:55:20,068
No

1031
00:55:20,078 --> 00:55:20,968
... between now and then.

1032
00:55:21,108 --> 00:55:24,688
So the numbers below, the first number in the

1033
00:55:24,748 --> 00:55:28,668
parentheses is what it costs to build the Civic Campus in

1034
00:55:28,808 --> 00:55:29,388
2029.

1035
00:55:29,668 --> 00:55:29,888
Right.

1036
00:55:30,288 --> 00:55:34,088
Right. The second number, the 185.9, is the

1037
00:55:34,148 --> 00:55:36,548
cost of building the police station in

1038
00:55:36,768 --> 00:55:38,208
2037.

1039
00:55:38,497 --> 00:55:38,708
37. Yeah.

1040
00:55:39,588 --> 00:55:42,708
Which that includes the escalation to 2037.

1041
00:55:42,928 --> 00:55:44,928
It includes the 6%

1042
00:55:45,028 --> 00:55:46,928
escalation.

1043
00:55:47,128 --> 00:55:47,298
Got it.

1044
00:55:47,308 --> 00:55:51,148
But it does not include any adjustment to that in the

1045
00:55:51,208 --> 00:55:51,868
cost of-

1046
00:55:52,128 --> 00:55:52,398
Inflation

1047
00:55:52,428 --> 00:55:55,848
... the 2, 3, 4% inflation.

1048
00:55:56,168 --> 00:55:56,288
No.

1049
00:55:56,468 --> 00:55:59,768
So that's, in a sense, both of these are sort of an

1050
00:55:59,848 --> 00:56:00,928
overstatement

1051
00:56:01,888 --> 00:56:03,727
of the real cost of money.

1052
00:56:04,528 --> 00:56:06,528
I challenge that a little bit.

1053
00:56:06,788 --> 00:56:08,028
I mean, Harry's-

1054
00:56:08,048 --> 00:56:11,588
Said it a little bit before, I'm not an economist, so I can't

1055
00:56:11,928 --> 00:56:15,748
weigh too far into that. But ultimately, as I said before,

1056
00:56:16,308 --> 00:56:19,608
you're still outstripping the pace of what the consumer price is.

1057
00:56:19,728 --> 00:56:19,838
Right.

1058
00:56:19,838 --> 00:56:19,928
Right?

1059
00:56:20,688 --> 00:56:23,828
Six. It's that 6% that we talked about before.

1060
00:56:24,108 --> 00:56:24,708
Yeah. But

1061
00:56:25,528 --> 00:56:27,998
just for clarity,

1062
00:56:29,158 --> 00:56:32,398
the 185 includes the 6%. It doesn't

1063
00:56:32,428 --> 00:56:36,358
include any adjustment to somebody looking

1064
00:56:36,408 --> 00:56:40,308
at that, that inflation has done, is responsible for a piece

1065
00:56:40,368 --> 00:56:41,548
of that, so to speak.

1066
00:56:42,308 --> 00:56:42,808
That's correct.

1067
00:56:42,888 --> 00:56:43,128
Okay.

1068
00:56:43,288 --> 00:56:43,488
Right.

1069
00:56:43,848 --> 00:56:44,108
Okay.

1070
00:56:44,328 --> 00:56:44,438
Well-

1071
00:56:46,068 --> 00:56:46,198
And

1072
00:56:47,348 --> 00:56:50,738
I recognize, you could make whatever assumption you wanted to make.

1073
00:56:50,808 --> 00:56:54,188
Inflation will be 3%, escalated will be 6%,

1074
00:56:54,628 --> 00:56:57,048
and so the real increase is something-

1075
00:56:57,208 --> 00:56:57,348
Right

1076
00:56:57,888 --> 00:57:01,348
... but it's all funny money numbers between here and there.

1077
00:57:01,408 --> 00:57:03,008
The clarity there, Paul, is that

1078
00:57:03,808 --> 00:57:07,668
if you're trying to gauge what somebody feels that number

1079
00:57:08,068 --> 00:57:09,168
is, right?

1080
00:57:09,408 --> 00:57:12,398
Right. And I'm not disputing that at all.

1081
00:57:12,408 --> 00:57:12,548
Right.

1082
00:57:12,668 --> 00:57:14,608
I'm just thinking for,

1083
00:57:16,148 --> 00:57:19,548
in terms of actually paying for it in real dollars.

1084
00:57:19,888 --> 00:57:23,817
That is the cost that the contractor would say you're going

1085
00:57:23,828 --> 00:57:25,708
to pay in 20-

1086
00:57:25,868 --> 00:57:26,268
In 20-

1087
00:57:27,208 --> 00:57:28,408
2037.

1088
00:57:28,448 --> 00:57:28,458
2037.

1089
00:57:28,688 --> 00:57:28,868
Yeah.

1090
00:57:29,148 --> 00:57:30,528
To build that police station.

1091
00:57:32,088 --> 00:57:32,388
Heck.

1092
00:57:34,688 --> 00:57:36,868
Yeah. Okay.

1093
00:57:37,068 --> 00:57:40,648
In eight years, $185 million sounds cheap.

1094
00:57:40,668 --> 00:57:42,448
That'd be great news for us.

1095
00:57:44,848 --> 00:57:45,328
I think

1096
00:57:47,468 --> 00:57:50,468
maybe a slightly different take on that.

1097
00:57:50,537 --> 00:57:50,537
Yeah.

1098
00:57:50,548 --> 00:57:52,968
The question for me is that,

1099
00:57:54,788 --> 00:57:58,408
it would be nice to know, easy enough to

1100
00:57:58,468 --> 00:58:02,228
calculate, how much of the 185.9

1101
00:58:02,268 --> 00:58:06,248
million was because of the delay.

1102
00:58:06,408 --> 00:58:07,028
The escalation.

1103
00:58:07,528 --> 00:58:08,448
Yeah, because I think the

1104
00:58:10,848 --> 00:58:14,657
common intuition might be, we'll build one now, then

1105
00:58:14,708 --> 00:58:15,568
build one later,

1106
00:58:16,488 --> 00:58:18,748
and what's the diff?

1107
00:58:19,408 --> 00:58:19,708
Sure.

1108
00:58:19,738 --> 00:58:23,028
And I think that's the point that I think is important is

1109
00:58:23,068 --> 00:58:26,968
that the cost of delay is costing a lot

1110
00:58:27,028 --> 00:58:28,388
more than you imagine.

1111
00:58:28,588 --> 00:58:28,768
Yes.

1112
00:58:29,448 --> 00:58:33,007
Yeah. And I think that it might be useful to highlight the-

1113
00:58:33,018 --> 00:58:33,848
Right.

1114
00:58:34,708 --> 00:58:37,668
So in this strategy, the $185.9

1115
00:58:38,908 --> 00:58:40,268
amount is for the police station.

1116
00:58:40,588 --> 00:58:41,108
I know. Right.

1117
00:58:41,168 --> 00:58:43,928
So go back to slide strategy two.

1118
00:58:45,908 --> 00:58:49,568
That's 116 million if you build it now.

1119
00:58:49,638 --> 00:58:50,128
Right.

1120
00:58:50,157 --> 00:58:53,568
So the difference between 116, and I've already forgot the other number,

1121
00:58:53,708 --> 00:58:55,408
185 is that.

1122
00:58:57,068 --> 00:59:00,888
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's clean subtraction, but it's fine.

1123
00:59:00,908 --> 00:59:04,907
It's close enough. I think that's the point I presume Chair's making.

1124
00:59:05,028 --> 00:59:05,408
So-

1125
00:59:05,438 --> 00:59:07,358
... for us to get to those numbers,

1126
00:59:08,708 --> 00:59:12,448
we took the 116.6 and multiplied it times

1127
00:59:12,688 --> 00:59:14,418
6% per year for eight years.

1128
00:59:14,448 --> 00:59:14,708
Right.

1129
00:59:15,488 --> 00:59:16,848
Which got us to the

1130
00:59:17,968 --> 00:59:18,788
185.9.

1131
00:59:18,828 --> 00:59:19,028
Yeah.

1132
00:59:20,808 --> 00:59:21,688
And so likewise,

1133
00:59:22,728 --> 00:59:22,968
in

1134
00:59:24,088 --> 00:59:26,608
what we will call current, the police station would cost,

1135
00:59:27,748 --> 00:59:29,148
I'm sorry, the Civic Campus would cost-

1136
00:59:29,828 --> 00:59:30,548
94

1137
00:59:31,388 --> 00:59:33,388
... and in the other scenario.

1138
00:59:33,528 --> 00:59:34,788
It would cost 151.

1139
00:59:35,888 --> 00:59:36,548
So like 40,

1140
00:59:37,688 --> 00:59:38,147
60 something.

1141
00:59:38,408 --> 00:59:41,698
Yeah. She's roughly 60,000. 60 million,

1142
00:59:41,908 --> 00:59:42,668
sorry.

1143
00:59:43,268 --> 00:59:44,308
60 million.

1144
00:59:46,228 --> 00:59:49,068
All right. Well, yeah, I mean, it's 6% compounded by a year or so.

1145
00:59:49,428 --> 00:59:50,528
It's going to be a big deal.

1146
00:59:50,668 --> 00:59:51,128
It's going to be big.

1147
00:59:51,668 --> 00:59:55,128
I just think it's good from a communication point of view, because there's an

1148
00:59:55,208 --> 00:59:57,048
intuition that

1149
00:59:58,168 --> 00:59:58,508
if

1150
01:00:00,188 --> 01:00:03,678
I just wait, if I just stay things out, it's going to be better

1151
01:00:04,528 --> 01:00:05,008
somehow.

1152
01:00:05,448 --> 01:00:05,628
Mm-hmm.

1153
01:00:07,268 --> 01:00:08,728
As opposed to

1154
01:00:10,108 --> 01:00:12,688
at 6% per year.

1155
01:00:13,288 --> 01:00:14,568
8%. What was the number, six?

1156
01:00:14,908 --> 01:00:14,978
6%.

1157
01:00:15,188 --> 01:00:15,488
6%.

1158
01:00:16,068 --> 01:00:16,668
For eight years.

1159
01:00:16,788 --> 01:00:17,508
Okay. For eight years.

1160
01:00:18,448 --> 01:00:19,048
Yeah, it's going to

1161
01:00:20,308 --> 01:00:21,288
be a significant

1162
01:00:22,528 --> 01:00:24,108
effect every year you wait.

1163
01:00:24,728 --> 01:00:25,828
Definitely.

1164
01:00:25,988 --> 01:00:28,648
You can't just wait a year. Well, I mean, that's your point.

1165
01:00:29,028 --> 01:00:31,028
We can try to wait a year.

1166
01:00:31,328 --> 01:00:31,338
Right.

1167
01:00:31,368 --> 01:00:34,408
But anyway, I think it's important to call that out.

1168
01:00:34,468 --> 01:00:38,448
Yeah. And I think you can look back at that graphic that we showed initially that

1169
01:00:38,468 --> 01:00:41,808
shows if we had started in 2027, if we were getting in

1170
01:00:41,928 --> 01:00:45,588
2027 for both projects at 188, if we're bidding in

1171
01:00:45,708 --> 01:00:47,707
2029 for both projects, it's now 201.

1172
01:00:48,648 --> 01:00:48,808
Yeah.

1173
01:00:49,888 --> 01:00:50,328
Yeah. So

1174
01:00:51,368 --> 01:00:53,228
basically more than double.

1175
01:00:53,368 --> 01:00:57,128
So a lot to hear was we were talking about sort of a phased

1176
01:00:57,188 --> 01:01:00,948
approach, that there's the cost implication on it, and then

1177
01:01:00,988 --> 01:01:03,808
there's the risk to whether or not you're going to have the full vision.

1178
01:01:04,548 --> 01:01:04,728
Right.

1179
01:01:04,828 --> 01:01:08,530
Because in addition toYou're

1180
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,900
building one, and then you're going to come back and you hopefully have a funding

1181
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,780
source that the public supports. So as I mentioned

1182
01:01:15,980 --> 01:01:19,210
when I started, this is over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time with

1183
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,980
community engagement and working with communities to get to

1184
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,980
funding these projects. And obviously I'm not the funding expert, but I'm helping

1185
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,760
with messaging, communication, understanding of the

1186
01:01:31,820 --> 01:01:33,120
projects, and et cetera.

1187
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,140
And so when you're, and we're not saying this is your approach, but if you're

1188
01:01:38,180 --> 01:01:40,180
going for a bond, which a lot of communities do,

1189
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,680
you're always going to have people who are fantastic supporters of

1190
01:01:45,690 --> 01:01:48,720
specific items of any kind and they'll support everything.

1191
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,660
Then you have people who are the opposite end of that spectrum who will never pay

1192
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:53,380
for anything.

1193
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:54,260
Right.

1194
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,540
And there's a certain percentage always of either end of that spectrum.

1195
01:01:58,180 --> 01:02:02,040
In the middle are the people who you're trying to communicate what the need

1196
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,880
is and is the cost reasonable.

1197
01:02:06,140 --> 01:02:06,440
Right.

1198
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,960
What often is the trap

1199
01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:12,279
is that people go out for a bond.

1200
01:02:13,419 --> 01:02:16,480
There's a number that's put out there, and it doesn't pass.

1201
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,600
And I'm not saying this would happen to you, but it's something that's relatively

1202
01:02:19,660 --> 01:02:22,820
common. And the community says, "That's just way too expensive."

1203
01:02:24,140 --> 01:02:27,680
Now you go back out a year later, and you've somehow

1204
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,480
addressed the community's concern.

1205
01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:33,079
You've pared that number back, but you've lost a year of buying power.

1206
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:33,470
Mm-hmm.

1207
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040
And so now you can't even build what that original vision is.

1208
01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:40,460
We've been working with another community that I won't mention.

1209
01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:43,940
They've tried four times to do a public safety book

1210
01:02:44,860 --> 01:02:48,000
that includes a fire station and a police. Four times.

1211
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:48,380
Mm.

1212
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:52,440
First time was like $6 million. The last time they tried was

1213
01:02:52,450 --> 01:02:56,280
$15 million. The version that we did with them was almost $32 million.

1214
01:02:56,740 --> 01:02:57,080
Wow.

1215
01:02:57,740 --> 01:02:59,780
And there's other complications within.

1216
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,080
But ultimately,

1217
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,500
every time you have to go to the community, you're finding those ends of the

1218
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,180
spectrum. Trying to find the reasonable argument in the middle.

1219
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,860
And every time takes time, energy,

1220
01:03:15,180 --> 01:03:19,140
investment of staff or council to

1221
01:03:19,219 --> 01:03:23,160
move these projects forward. So when you get to that

1222
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,420
eight-year mark that we're talking about here, you're going to go through

1223
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,840
that process again, and hopefully you've got the same

1224
01:03:32,300 --> 01:03:34,800
support from the community that you did when you did it the first time.

1225
01:03:35,180 --> 01:03:36,600
And so there's a risk then.

1226
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:42,240
Okay. So last scenario.

1227
01:03:44,220 --> 01:03:45,470
So the

1228
01:03:46,780 --> 01:03:47,920
campus will be built,

1229
01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:52,480
and same sort of conversation about the

1230
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,160
existing building and the

1231
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:56,560
.

1232
01:03:58,220 --> 01:03:58,920
One more IP.

1233
01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:00,560
And thank you.

1234
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,320
Those have been removed for the same reasons.

1235
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,280
So the last strategy is that you do nothing right now,

1236
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:14,320
and

1237
01:04:15,820 --> 01:04:19,520
you delay both projects to whatever timeframe you

1238
01:04:19,580 --> 01:04:23,380
decide. But to keep things apples to apples, we said you delay eight

1239
01:04:23,420 --> 01:04:25,500
years. But really, it's unknown.

1240
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:30,420
You don't know what might happen. So the

1241
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,840
pros are you don't have any immediate out-of-pocket capital

1242
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:34,639
expenditures.

1243
01:04:35,780 --> 01:04:39,620
But the cons are, the biggest one being the construction escalation.

1244
01:04:41,140 --> 01:04:44,200
The city abandons downtown for an undetermined amount of time.

1245
01:04:45,820 --> 01:04:48,960
The remodeling space for public safety is expensive, like we talked

1246
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:50,120
about.

1247
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,640
You now have somewhat of a misalignment with your Downtown Vitality Task

1248
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:56,210
Force goals.

1249
01:04:57,940 --> 01:05:00,140
Does not address the long-term facility management.

1250
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:04,440
As a reminder, these were the priority projects.

1251
01:05:04,449 --> 01:05:08,080
So all the projects that needed to come behind these ones are also now

1252
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:08,500
frozen.

1253
01:05:10,580 --> 01:05:14,450
You have loss of momentum. You've been working on

1254
01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:16,700
this topic for significant amount of time.

1255
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,370
Other citywide facility strategy projects are further delayed, just mentioned

1256
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,449
that. This is the highest cost to implement of all the options

1257
01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:28,660
because you're paying the most escalation over time.

1258
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,950
And then you have the highest long-term lease costs because you don't

1259
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,720
know how long the city's going to have these lease costs.

1260
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:40,840
All right.

1261
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:41,880
So

1262
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,920
back to our graph, or diagram.

1263
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,680
What we've done is we've taken the

1264
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,420
scenario number one, which is you build everything.

1265
01:05:52,460 --> 01:05:54,000
That's the orange dot at the bottom.

1266
01:05:54,580 --> 01:05:57,260
Assumes you're bidding the project in 2029.

1267
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,440
It's $211 million.

1268
01:06:01,260 --> 01:06:05,140
Option two, where you delay city campus, is the one, the dot that's furthest on the

1269
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,620
upper left, and that's at $268 million.

1270
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,080
The option three, which is delay the police station,

1271
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,540
is in the middle, is $281 million. And

1272
01:06:16,620 --> 01:06:18,820
the last option is the

1273
01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:24,020
$337 million. Again, assuming that you're waiting eight years, it should really

1274
01:06:24,060 --> 01:06:24,500
go down.

1275
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,680
At that point, from 237 onwards,

1276
01:06:29,580 --> 01:06:33,380
it's $20 million a year in escalation for

1277
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,180
the cost of these projects. So going back to looking at our three blue

1278
01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:40,440
dots on the left, you're kind of back to that scenario,

1279
01:06:41,540 --> 01:06:45,160
where we talked about it, but we're going to pause it for some

1280
01:06:45,220 --> 01:06:46,120
duration of time.

1281
01:06:49,220 --> 01:06:50,520
I'll leave it here just for a

1282
01:06:51,620 --> 01:06:53,420
minute if there's any questions.

1283
01:06:58,300 --> 01:06:59,660
I was thinking you were leaving here for dramatic

1284
01:07:01,540 --> 01:07:02,620
effect.

1285
01:07:03,820 --> 01:07:04,200
That's it.

1286
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,880
All right. So in summary, we've given you four

1287
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,805
differentAvenues or implementation strategies for

1288
01:07:13,836 --> 01:07:17,005
this. We've talked about the pros and cons relative to that.

1289
01:07:17,056 --> 01:07:20,796
The only other thing that I might add here is that

1290
01:07:20,896 --> 01:07:24,676
when I first had the opportunity to talk to you, the thing that we

1291
01:07:24,716 --> 01:07:28,416
were most potentially excited about these projects is the potential

1292
01:07:28,476 --> 01:07:32,356
catalyst that they could bring, particularly with what OB

1293
01:07:32,396 --> 01:07:34,216
was doing at the other end of Madison.

1294
01:07:34,976 --> 01:07:38,406
And as an architect who works on civic buildings,

1295
01:07:39,196 --> 01:07:43,066
I'm incredibly excited about the potential of either of these, or both of

1296
01:07:43,116 --> 01:07:46,536
these projects moving at once with the potential economic

1297
01:07:46,936 --> 01:07:49,936
catalyst that these projects moving with that credit growth.

1298
01:07:51,116 --> 01:07:54,236
It's not often that we often get to work on one project,

1299
01:07:55,176 --> 01:07:57,556
police station, city hall, or something along those lines.

1300
01:07:58,036 --> 01:08:01,696
The potential to do two projects that have synergy and relationship

1301
01:08:02,796 --> 01:08:03,136
together,

1302
01:08:04,336 --> 01:08:07,316
as Mark said, this is sort of once in a generational

1303
01:08:07,376 --> 01:08:09,436
opportunity.

1304
01:08:10,556 --> 01:08:13,896
Hopefully this has given you enough information to think about.

1305
01:08:14,596 --> 01:08:18,297
And I think this is where I hand it over to

1306
01:08:18,576 --> 01:08:18,876
Mary.

1307
01:08:19,116 --> 01:08:21,156
We've been asking questions all along, which is great.

1308
01:08:21,337 --> 01:08:24,076
Is there any before we move to the next piece?

1309
01:08:25,896 --> 01:08:28,696
We will be able to see these slides for

1310
01:08:29,416 --> 01:08:30,996
the-

1311
01:08:31,196 --> 01:08:31,436
Yes.

1312
01:08:31,496 --> 01:08:32,766
I don't have to watch the video.

1313
01:08:33,396 --> 01:08:35,356
No, we can email them out, but they'll be in the minutes.

1314
01:08:36,576 --> 01:08:36,887
Paul,

1315
01:08:38,996 --> 01:08:41,036
it makes sense. Paul, thank you.

1316
01:08:41,587 --> 01:08:41,587
Sure.

1317
01:08:43,656 --> 01:08:47,456
I shouldn't have said all of it. There was one piece at the end that I didn't

1318
01:08:47,536 --> 01:08:49,416
quite follow, the abandoned downtown.

1319
01:08:49,456 --> 01:08:50,016
I feel like

1320
01:08:51,056 --> 01:08:54,797
it appeared that the number

1321
01:08:55,016 --> 01:08:56,596
assumed that the cost of

1322
01:08:57,956 --> 01:09:00,257
building facilities somewhere else-

1323
01:09:00,356 --> 01:09:00,456
Yeah

1324
01:09:00,837 --> 01:09:02,547
... would be the same as the downtown project,

1325
01:09:03,496 --> 01:09:06,276
but it would be a fundamentally different project.

1326
01:09:06,436 --> 01:09:10,096
You're right. If we were not doing these projects and we're doing

1327
01:09:10,177 --> 01:09:13,816
something else somewhere else, those are not the funds.

1328
01:09:14,096 --> 01:09:17,536
And I'm not sure who's sitting behind me, but I think that's a terrible idea.

1329
01:09:17,616 --> 01:09:21,476
I should be clear about that. I'm not suggesting

1330
01:09:21,956 --> 01:09:25,376
that we should go down that road, but I just want to make sure we're understanding

1331
01:09:25,436 --> 01:09:26,456
the picture.

1332
01:09:26,596 --> 01:09:30,076
Sure. Our purview, and I just want to reiterate it,

1333
01:09:30,156 --> 01:09:33,916
is with the projects in front of us, what does it cost to

1334
01:09:34,076 --> 01:09:35,177
implement just them?

1335
01:09:35,896 --> 01:09:36,016
Yeah.

1336
01:09:36,096 --> 01:09:39,016
As the architects, we don't own these costs of what you do-

1337
01:09:39,076 --> 01:09:39,087
Yeah

1338
01:09:39,087 --> 01:09:40,196
... outside of that picture.

1339
01:09:40,316 --> 01:09:43,736
Well, and also a potential clarification, if I'm understanding your

1340
01:09:44,257 --> 01:09:45,797
question or concern correctly,

1341
01:09:46,776 --> 01:09:50,736
it's called abandoned downtown because we're leaving for a significant period of

1342
01:09:50,816 --> 01:09:51,116
time.

1343
01:09:51,436 --> 01:09:51,816
Oh, I see.

1344
01:09:51,837 --> 01:09:54,306
The goal would still be to eventually come back-

1345
01:09:54,476 --> 01:09:55,156
Got it. Okay

1346
01:09:55,166 --> 01:09:56,236
... and build it in this way.

1347
01:09:56,456 --> 01:09:59,396
Well, then in theory, there's a fifth option, which is-

1348
01:09:59,696 --> 01:10:00,146
We own it

1349
01:10:00,146 --> 01:10:01,566
... we're not going to have city facilities.

1350
01:10:02,156 --> 01:10:02,396
Right.

1351
01:10:03,316 --> 01:10:06,156
Paul, could we condemn the county building and move out there?

1352
01:10:09,436 --> 01:10:13,016
Yeah. I think obviously the thing that makes this at least a little bit more

1353
01:10:13,056 --> 01:10:16,276
attractive than that is you'd be buying land if you-

1354
01:10:16,616 --> 01:10:16,876
Yeah

1355
01:10:16,885 --> 01:10:19,236
... went forward. So there's additional costs to us.

1356
01:10:21,856 --> 01:10:24,396
If I can play just devil's advocate for a moment here.

1357
01:10:26,116 --> 01:10:29,016
If we're building two things at once instead of one,

1358
01:10:29,956 --> 01:10:30,736
is there

1359
01:10:31,876 --> 01:10:33,396
plenty of contractor

1360
01:10:34,196 --> 01:10:36,545
capacity for doing this? I

1361
01:10:37,356 --> 01:10:39,936
look at people building subdivisions,

1362
01:10:39,976 --> 01:10:43,616
Ponderosa Ridge. They were sort of

1363
01:10:43,636 --> 01:10:47,616
phasing that, I think, as much as anything to manage

1364
01:10:47,776 --> 01:10:51,556
staff, employee costs, and so on.

1365
01:10:52,316 --> 01:10:53,686
I'm just curious,

1366
01:10:54,616 --> 01:10:58,246
we're not going to run into a case that we've got a limited pool of

1367
01:10:58,276 --> 01:11:00,976
builders who can take on both of these at once.

1368
01:11:00,996 --> 01:11:01,256
Yeah.

1369
01:11:01,296 --> 01:11:05,036
That we're going to risk inflating a cost because of

1370
01:11:05,116 --> 01:11:06,436
a small bidder pool.

1371
01:11:06,556 --> 01:11:09,976
Right. I can't tell you what it'll be like in 2029-

1372
01:11:10,096 --> 01:11:10,416
Sure

1373
01:11:10,436 --> 01:11:14,406
... when these projects will bid. If you were to ask me today, I'd

1374
01:11:14,436 --> 01:11:18,376
point you to the number of phone calls I get from contractors right now asking

1375
01:11:18,396 --> 01:11:19,616
me what I'm working on.

1376
01:11:19,656 --> 01:11:19,856
Mm-hmm.

1377
01:11:20,556 --> 01:11:21,896
There's a lot of

1378
01:11:22,836 --> 01:11:26,616
capacity, if I could buy a term, or panic, in the

1379
01:11:26,676 --> 01:11:29,355
contracting marketplace looking for sizable projects.

1380
01:11:29,795 --> 01:11:31,795
There's not a lot going on in the state right now.

1381
01:11:32,386 --> 01:11:35,656
We've finished some really big work, obviously the Portland Airport being one of

1382
01:11:35,696 --> 01:11:37,236
those projects.

1383
01:11:38,196 --> 01:11:38,516
But the

1384
01:11:40,136 --> 01:11:43,586
larger construction firms that would work on a project like this, or

1385
01:11:43,716 --> 01:11:44,796
even one of them,

1386
01:11:45,856 --> 01:11:46,956
they're all looking for work.

1387
01:11:48,376 --> 01:11:48,896
Mm-hmm.

1388
01:11:50,056 --> 01:11:53,656
The other things you can start to look at are the trajectory of school

1389
01:11:53,696 --> 01:11:55,796
bonds. Usually those things go in waves.

1390
01:11:57,316 --> 01:12:01,006
There's not a lot of housing being built right now, either

1391
01:12:01,096 --> 01:12:05,076
market rate or affordable. Affordable is really mostly what's being built, but not

1392
01:12:05,176 --> 01:12:06,836
large enough amounts.

1393
01:12:07,416 --> 01:12:08,546
Mm-hmm.

1394
01:12:08,616 --> 01:12:11,776
There's not a lot of commercial offices being built because of the lags from the

1395
01:12:11,816 --> 01:12:12,296
pandemic.

1396
01:12:12,596 --> 01:12:12,776
Mm-hmm.

1397
01:12:12,896 --> 01:12:16,836
So lots of the other traditional markets for construction are a little

1398
01:12:16,876 --> 01:12:17,276
bit slow.

1399
01:12:17,656 --> 01:12:18,995
Mm-hmm. Okay.

1400
01:12:19,016 --> 01:12:22,936
I think the thing I'll add, because in prepping for this, we did talk to a lot

1401
01:12:22,976 --> 01:12:26,716
of contractors. Contractors we talked to were so intrigued with the idea of

1402
01:12:26,816 --> 01:12:29,836
doing these together and all the efficiencies, as Ian had that slide

1403
01:12:29,856 --> 01:12:33,506
previously. But it's how they could stagger trades and work with the different

1404
01:12:33,536 --> 01:12:36,986
trades on the project. So there's a lot of advantages of

1405
01:12:37,076 --> 01:12:40,496
having someone be putting windows on one side and then immediately roll to the

1406
01:12:40,556 --> 01:12:43,056
other building and not have to leave for another job site.

1407
01:12:43,116 --> 01:12:46,996
So you have a lot of control over who's working and how they work together when you

1408
01:12:47,056 --> 01:12:47,636
do them together.

1409
01:12:49,556 --> 01:12:50,456
We have a virtual question?

1410
01:12:51,296 --> 01:12:54,696
Yeah. Councilor Bowden Allison has the line open right now.

1411
01:12:55,136 --> 01:12:55,956
Oh, good. Allison?

1412
01:12:56,756 --> 01:12:58,046
Hello, can you hear me okay?

1413
01:12:59,396 --> 01:12:59,956
Loud and clear.

1414
01:13:00,476 --> 01:13:00,876
Thank you.

1415
01:13:02,056 --> 01:13:05,936
So my comment is more general, but I still wanted

1416
01:13:05,976 --> 01:13:08,476
it to state it publicly.

1417
01:13:09,936 --> 01:13:13,196
I am concerned about the land use

1418
01:13:13,296 --> 01:13:16,776
conflict with the Downtown Vitality

1419
01:13:18,236 --> 01:13:21,636
Strategy Task Force, their recommendations, and

1420
01:13:22,656 --> 01:13:23,876
the current

1421
01:13:25,076 --> 01:13:27,276
layout strategies that are being listed.

1422
01:13:27,316 --> 01:13:31,000
And I know, again, recognizing that this topic is, more

1423
01:13:31,010 --> 01:13:33,540
directed at the funding mechanisms or

1424
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,220
pairing buildings for

1425
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,620
order of construction. But I really do

1426
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,860
want to keep going back towards that a

1427
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,760
institutional like control or civic inclusivity versus

1428
01:13:50,820 --> 01:13:53,180
institutional control and secure

1429
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,000
access needs are really not compatible

1430
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,340
with the type of welcoming, open,

1431
01:14:01,460 --> 01:14:05,380
shared, public, all of the buzzwords that we're looking for

1432
01:14:05,460 --> 01:14:09,280
with a revitalized civic campus. I just

1433
01:14:09,340 --> 01:14:11,700
can't see a world where

1434
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,100
downtown can have the same

1435
01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:21,130
walkability, community gathering, social interaction, economic activity

1436
01:14:21,300 --> 01:14:25,260
when there all of these civic structures and there's a law

1437
01:14:25,300 --> 01:14:27,400
enforcement center directly across from it.

1438
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:31,300
I think it makes it a really hard

1439
01:14:31,420 --> 01:14:35,410
sell to community members. And in addition to all

1440
01:14:35,420 --> 01:14:39,300
of the other barriers that were carefully mentioned in what it

1441
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,160
takes to get the community on board with a large capital

1442
01:14:43,180 --> 01:14:46,720
project that will likely require bond and voter approval.

1443
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,920
So I want to bring that back to our conversation

1444
01:14:50,020 --> 01:14:50,940
of

1445
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,780
thinking about how this land use is or is not compatible with the

1446
01:14:55,820 --> 01:14:59,390
recommendations from the task force, and how that

1447
01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:02,980
will look to voters who may or may not have to appro-- or

1448
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:07,080
will have to approve if a bond is chosen as a funding

1449
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:07,700
mechanism.

1450
01:15:13,420 --> 01:15:14,460
Yeah. Alison,

1451
01:15:15,380 --> 01:15:19,080
so you are concerned that having the police station

1452
01:15:19,140 --> 01:15:22,580
across from a place where we're trying to engage

1453
01:15:23,180 --> 01:15:26,780
a wide variety of people coming in and out

1454
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,170
is going to create an essential barrier just by,

1455
01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:35,280
no offense to our police, we have great police, just by the essence of

1456
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,580
a law enforcement building is going to make some people uncomfortable to

1457
01:15:39,620 --> 01:15:43,280
go into the other space or come through that space.

1458
01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:45,500
We're a block away.

1459
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:47,150
I will-

1460
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:47,850
Right now

1461
01:15:47,850 --> 01:15:49,370
... I will speak for myself,

1462
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:54,440
and just note that others have conveyed to me

1463
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,420
directly, but I'm not going to speak for every single person.

1464
01:15:57,480 --> 01:15:57,660
But

1465
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,920
I definitely would have a deep discomfort

1466
01:16:02,020 --> 01:16:05,460
in using a plaza

1467
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:09,250
for, or even the open amphitheater that was in one of the previous

1468
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,790
designs, I don't even know if it's on the table anymore.

1469
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,460
But having performances and community gatherings and

1470
01:16:15,470 --> 01:16:19,430
even a farmers market with a law enforcement center where people are

1471
01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:22,889
having the worst days of their lives, to me, doesn't

1472
01:16:22,940 --> 01:16:24,000
really

1473
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:28,120
meet the walkability, economic activity, community

1474
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,760
gathering, land use plans that the civic

1475
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,800
campus improvements and Madison Avenue Corridor

1476
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,669
ideas we're trying to promote. So I'm not

1477
01:16:39,700 --> 01:16:42,790
trying to detract this conversation too much from it, which is why I've been

1478
01:16:42,820 --> 01:16:46,680
waiting to say something, but I want to keep bringing

1479
01:16:46,740 --> 01:16:47,540
that forward.

1480
01:16:49,380 --> 01:16:50,620
Well, I appreciate your-

1481
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:54,760
You see things from a different kind of lens.

1482
01:16:54,780 --> 01:16:55,800
I see you see things from

1483
01:16:56,940 --> 01:17:00,640
where we want our police to be. I've

1484
01:17:00,700 --> 01:17:04,160
gone through a couple of chiefs now, and everyone says we want community

1485
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:04,780
policing.

1486
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:04,870
Right.

1487
01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:06,640
We want to be part of the community.

1488
01:17:06,700 --> 01:17:10,360
We want to be interacting with the community, not with the current law

1489
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:12,660
enforcement building that's this big stone-

1490
01:17:13,300 --> 01:17:13,900
Big old bunker

1491
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,020
... imposing structure or bunker.

1492
01:17:16,540 --> 01:17:19,940
And I see this as an opportunity to move towards that

1493
01:17:21,700 --> 01:17:25,310
idea of being part of the community, not being something of intimidation or

1494
01:17:25,340 --> 01:17:25,760
misery.

1495
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:26,860
Public facing.

1496
01:17:27,180 --> 01:17:28,400
Yeah.

1497
01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:32,240
I think it was in social infrastructure book where they set up basketball

1498
01:17:32,380 --> 01:17:33,919
courts at the back of the police-

1499
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:34,800
Mm-hmm

1500
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,460
... station, so there were trying to a more

1501
01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:42,300
interaction. Have it be more like a normal other

1502
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,300
human beings.

1503
01:17:44,260 --> 01:17:44,680
Yeah.

1504
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,220
So I agree with you.

1505
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,340
Normal people at jobs.

1506
01:17:49,579 --> 01:17:50,420
Yeah. I mean,

1507
01:17:51,579 --> 01:17:55,060
so yeah, I agree with you. I think that that's also,

1508
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,360
correct me if I'm wrong, but more the trend is towards that

1509
01:18:01,700 --> 01:18:03,940
community interactive.

1510
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,820
So it's more relational rather than this barrier between you and the public, is

1511
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:09,140
that...?

1512
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,140
That's kind of also what I feel like we're trying to go towards as a government,

1513
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:18,300
as just the City of Corvallis is I walk in

1514
01:18:18,460 --> 01:18:21,460
and people are shocked the mayor's there. They were shocked when I was a counselor.

1515
01:18:21,860 --> 01:18:25,280
It's like, we're normal people. We're part of the community, and we should operate

1516
01:18:25,300 --> 01:18:27,060
as part of the community. And I think-

1517
01:18:27,380 --> 01:18:27,660
Mm-hmm

1518
01:18:27,700 --> 01:18:28,120
... police-

1519
01:18:29,260 --> 01:18:29,880
Is an extension

1520
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:30,830
... the city government,

1521
01:18:32,100 --> 01:18:33,779
our municipal court be part of that.

1522
01:18:34,020 --> 01:18:36,060
It's all part of the community and we all function together.

1523
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:37,980
It's necessary.

1524
01:18:38,300 --> 01:18:38,589
Mm-hmm.

1525
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:42,600
It's problem-oriented policing is, and community policing

1526
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:43,720
is, has

1527
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:48,500
far, way ahead. We're way, I think

1528
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,700
our community is way ahead in that respect.

1529
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,480
And we've got the ideas about

1530
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,500
police or a fear of police, that's

1531
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,570
not anything we've ensured, of course, but

1532
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,460
to have a bunker like that, where's the front door on the-

1533
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:07,140
Right

1534
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:08,840
... police station right now? Who knows?

1535
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:11,120
So that's-

1536
01:19:11,330 --> 01:19:14,060
Let's try to bring us back on the topic today.

1537
01:19:14,100 --> 01:19:15,660
And that's a good conversation, guys.

1538
01:19:16,050 --> 01:19:16,050
Sorry.

1539
01:19:16,060 --> 01:19:16,160
No.

1540
01:19:16,300 --> 01:19:19,520
I'm looking at the clock, and I want to make sure that we have adequate time to

1541
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:20,300
discuss this.

1542
01:19:20,420 --> 01:19:20,820
Yeah.

1543
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:22,840
I do want to say, though,

1544
01:19:23,820 --> 01:19:26,960
what we have now is a bunker, and trying to find the front door, I

1545
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,700
struggled to find it.

1546
01:19:30,260 --> 01:19:31,840
But we

1547
01:19:33,060 --> 01:19:34,380
are pretty privileged people.

1548
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,460
And I understand what Council Bowden is raising is

1549
01:19:40,540 --> 01:19:44,040
not everybody feels as comfortable as we do.

1550
01:19:44,100 --> 01:19:47,440
And again, I do acknowledge that our police

1551
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,640
do really good work. But the perception out there,

1552
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:55,460
and the perception is getting worse and worse and

1553
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,480
worse. I do think that that is going to come

1554
01:19:59,580 --> 01:20:01,960
up in that design. Yeah, I think it's a valid point.

1555
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:06,040
And it's an absolute legitimate point, which we need to consider,

1556
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,779
especially considering it's getting worse and worse and worse.

1557
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,900
So now I feel bad that I cut you off. And we didn't move forward.

1558
01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:15,010
So if there's anything else that you wanted to point, you wanted to make there,

1559
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,960
now's the time. Thank you for offering. No. Okay. All right.

1560
01:20:20,020 --> 01:20:20,820
Then with that,

1561
01:20:22,660 --> 01:20:24,560
you guys have a lot of information.

1562
01:20:26,060 --> 01:20:26,360
And

1563
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,020
how do you get to a decision about which

1564
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,700
implementation strategy you want to move forward on?

1565
01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:37,100
The city council has adopted the International Association of Public

1566
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,780
Participation's planning guide to inform their engagement activities.

1567
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,240
Got the poster there on the wall right there.

1568
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,920
And within that guide is a sustainable decision framework to help

1569
01:20:47,980 --> 01:20:50,820
organize information and inputs.

1570
01:20:50,900 --> 01:20:54,320
I'm going to quote from the guide now, so I'm going to read from my page.

1571
01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:59,300
"The framework is especially helpful as a decision picks up

1572
01:20:59,380 --> 01:21:03,020
a political charge. As this occurs, interest usually

1573
01:21:03,140 --> 01:21:07,080
pulls into one of the four quadrants, yet decision-makers are

1574
01:21:07,100 --> 01:21:11,060
accountable for balanced and lasting decisions that consider the whole

1575
01:21:11,140 --> 01:21:14,820
community in relation to budget, resources, environment, and

1576
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:15,230
equity.

1577
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,520
In this case, the framework provides decision-makers with the means to

1578
01:21:19,660 --> 01:21:23,620
balance the input they receive to make the best long-term decision for

1579
01:21:23,660 --> 01:21:24,230
the community."

1580
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,330
So the information that you've heard today, and frankly, over the life of the

1581
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:32,150
facility investment work, are the data points to consider through

1582
01:21:32,180 --> 01:21:34,280
these framework lenses.

1583
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:40,110
We pulled from the facility investment guiding principles that Ian mentioned at the

1584
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:43,880
beginning and other policy direction, and we've compiled

1585
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:48,020
a set of key areas for you to consider within

1586
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,620
each framework component as you work towards a decision.

1587
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,560
And then remember that for this exercise of the IAP2

1588
01:21:55,580 --> 01:21:59,540
analysis, you are comparing the options for

1589
01:21:59,620 --> 01:22:02,040
implementation strategies against each other.

1590
01:22:02,580 --> 01:22:04,300
So we've seen the four strategies, now

1591
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,020
they compare against each other.

1592
01:22:09,540 --> 01:22:13,140
So let's take an example. Under technical is one of the arms.

1593
01:22:14,020 --> 01:22:17,200
We have construction efficiencies, which you heard a lot about today.

1594
01:22:18,140 --> 01:22:21,120
So how do four implementation strategies

1595
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,520
compare on the ability to construct efficiently what the

1596
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,440
council's direction is for the civic campus and police facility at this

1597
01:22:29,460 --> 01:22:29,980
point in time?

1598
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,300
So you want to consider the construction management, the staging of materials,

1599
01:22:34,740 --> 01:22:38,380
staff collaboration opportunities, that parking garage design,

1600
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,870
and renovation of leased space to meet our service delivery

1601
01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:46,030
needs, and as we mentioned, especially important for police operations.

1602
01:22:47,820 --> 01:22:51,800
The facility investment guiding principles call for functional spaces

1603
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,700
that are accessible, inclusive, and accommodate growth.

1604
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,400
So how do the four options in your mind compare on achieving

1605
01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:00,480
these objectives?

1606
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:03,500
Moving to environment.

1607
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,580
A topic we've discussed in the past, and it came up again- This one ...

1608
01:23:08,620 --> 01:23:12,150
is the subpar resiliency of City Hall and the LED, law

1609
01:23:12,150 --> 01:23:12,820
enforcement.

1610
01:23:14,110 --> 01:23:17,800
The new buildings under consideration will have more robust

1611
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,480
resiliency than the current structures do.

1612
01:23:20,540 --> 01:23:24,380
So which implementation strategy or strategies meet the resiliency

1613
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:25,820
concern that's been brought forward?

1614
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,180
The Climate Action Plan, which is one of our guiding documents,

1615
01:23:31,100 --> 01:23:32,580
in terms of policy direction,

1616
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,920
it calls for actions that will achieve other co-benefits in

1617
01:23:37,980 --> 01:23:41,940
addition to greenhouse gas reductions, some of which are seen on

1618
01:23:42,140 --> 01:23:42,640
the list here.

1619
01:23:44,540 --> 01:23:47,940
And then speaking of the big reveal on energy

1620
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:51,670
efficiency- Sorry ... I'm going to kick it over to Mark because I'm pouting that

1621
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,440
you took my glory away. Are you ready for me to go to the next

1622
01:23:55,460 --> 01:23:59,280
slide? Just a moment. Yeah. We've talked a lot about City

1623
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,260
Hall, the space heaters, and leaky windows

1624
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:07,020
and all that sort of thing. And I really want to credit Scott

1625
01:24:07,060 --> 01:24:10,880
Dipod, our sustainability coordinator, and Abby Alexander, our innovation

1626
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,900
manager. We actually have been able to dig some data, go through

1627
01:24:14,940 --> 01:24:18,740
the data, and look at what is our energy usage at the

1628
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,260
City Hall building and compare that

1629
01:24:22,420 --> 01:24:24,580
to some other facilities. So go ahead, Mary.

1630
01:24:26,180 --> 01:24:29,840
So here is a comparison of energy

1631
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,320
usage between the Kalapuya building on the left, that is the Benton

1632
01:24:33,420 --> 01:24:33,940
County's

1633
01:24:34,820 --> 01:24:35,720
newly remodeled

1634
01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:38,800
facility out in Southwest Corvallis.

1635
01:24:40,060 --> 01:24:43,900
You have the law enforcement building and City Hall, and you can

1636
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,460
see how much more energy City

1637
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:51,080
Hall uses. That's on an annual basis, and you can see

1638
01:24:52,180 --> 01:24:54,540
the energy we're using at these different facilities.

1639
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:58,280
Purchased electricity, solar, and in the

1640
01:24:58,340 --> 01:25:00,600
magenta is natural gas.

1641
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:05,260
So significantly more energy we're using on an annual basis at City

1642
01:25:05,340 --> 01:25:05,640
Hall.

1643
01:25:06,500 --> 01:25:10,319
What's the square footage of each of those? Geographic segment.

1644
01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:15,120
When you talk about square footage, it becomes even more dramatic.

1645
01:25:17,620 --> 01:25:20,780
So per square foot, the Kalapuya building- Per square foot ...

1646
01:25:20,980 --> 01:25:22,600
33.7.

1647
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:27,280
City Hall is 10X per square foot

1648
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:31,000
because the Kalapuya building is 2.7 times

1649
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,840
larger than City Hall. Right.

1650
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,500
So essentially, the power we use for just the City Hall

1651
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:42,180
building would power the county's Kalapuya

1652
01:25:42,260 --> 01:25:46,204
building for 10 years.So that's

1653
01:25:46,224 --> 01:25:49,924
something you can see a pretty dramatic impact we're having

1654
01:25:50,644 --> 01:25:52,064
on an ongoing basis.

1655
01:25:52,444 --> 01:25:54,544
It's those tall ceilings, drafty windows.

1656
01:25:54,584 --> 01:25:55,164
Right. Yeah.

1657
01:25:55,944 --> 01:25:57,544
If I can just make a quick comment.

1658
01:25:58,324 --> 01:25:59,724
Sure.

1659
01:25:59,784 --> 01:26:02,664
This statistic is a standard energy use

1660
01:26:03,724 --> 01:26:06,684
index, and it's a standard metric for building efficiency.

1661
01:26:07,144 --> 01:26:08,404
And one can look up

1662
01:26:09,304 --> 01:26:12,663
typical types of buildings, and they'll tell you here's about the range of what

1663
01:26:13,124 --> 01:26:16,504
it should be. When people talk about a net zero energy building,

1664
01:26:17,184 --> 01:26:19,144
that EUI index is zero.

1665
01:26:19,464 --> 01:26:19,944
Mm-hmm.

1666
01:26:21,824 --> 01:26:24,984
As architects, we've done a couple of net zero buildings,

1667
01:26:25,564 --> 01:26:28,804
others in our sphere of work too.

1668
01:26:31,224 --> 01:26:34,944
Okay. I'm going to go back to the IAP2 sustainable decision

1669
01:26:35,024 --> 01:26:38,244
framework. Now we're talking about the economic piece.

1670
01:26:39,324 --> 01:26:43,064
Obviously, a major component of the economic lens is the positive

1671
01:26:43,084 --> 01:26:45,544
construction, but it's not the only data point.

1672
01:26:46,284 --> 01:26:49,444
Another consideration is overall financial stewardship.

1673
01:26:50,364 --> 01:26:53,964
As we've heard today, any of the strategies will require staff to

1674
01:26:54,004 --> 01:26:55,884
relocate to a leased facility.

1675
01:26:56,744 --> 01:26:58,624
This means annual lease payments

1676
01:26:59,464 --> 01:27:03,004
added to the cost to renovate the space to meet the service delivery needs, either

1677
01:27:03,044 --> 01:27:05,304
from civic campus staff, police staff, or both.

1678
01:27:06,304 --> 01:27:10,264
So this is an investment of city resources without a resulting tangible

1679
01:27:10,364 --> 01:27:13,784
asset. There's no building at the end that the city owns, but we're putting

1680
01:27:15,044 --> 01:27:18,964
potentially millions of dollars into that, a year into that

1681
01:27:19,244 --> 01:27:20,004
leased facility.

1682
01:27:20,824 --> 01:27:24,584
So you want to consider how does each strategy support or doesn't

1683
01:27:24,624 --> 01:27:28,403
support financial stewardship, along with recruiting and

1684
01:27:28,524 --> 01:27:31,104
retention, which Mark mentioned at the beginning.

1685
01:27:33,764 --> 01:27:37,204
And then final arm under this discussion is community benefit.

1686
01:27:38,504 --> 01:27:42,044
Again, as I mentioned, these topics, especially ones on this page,

1687
01:27:42,444 --> 01:27:46,244
are objectives of the facility investment guiding principles and

1688
01:27:46,384 --> 01:27:48,164
other city policy documents.

1689
01:27:49,104 --> 01:27:53,044
They also happen to align with the goals that are coming out of the Downtown

1690
01:27:53,184 --> 01:27:55,423
Vitality Strategy Task Force work.

1691
01:27:56,544 --> 01:28:00,004
So as you think about the different strategies for

1692
01:28:00,044 --> 01:28:00,904
implementation,

1693
01:28:01,924 --> 01:28:05,524
how do they further these objectives in support of what the community

1694
01:28:05,604 --> 01:28:06,104
has

1695
01:28:07,304 --> 01:28:10,504
over the years and continues to say that it values?

1696
01:28:13,284 --> 01:28:14,644
Okay, so we have the four

1697
01:28:15,824 --> 01:28:18,644
arms. We have topics that we would want to consider.

1698
01:28:20,204 --> 01:28:23,684
We look at the near-term results of the various implementation

1699
01:28:23,764 --> 01:28:25,864
strategies through these framework lenses,

1700
01:28:26,864 --> 01:28:28,564
and these are the results that we came up with.

1701
01:28:29,764 --> 01:28:32,504
So in comparing strategies against each other,

1702
01:28:33,784 --> 01:28:37,764
strategy one has the best outcomes for achieving the

1703
01:28:37,804 --> 01:28:41,444
objectives in each of the components of the

1704
01:28:41,524 --> 01:28:45,164
framework, and those objectives, again, coming from policy documents and the

1705
01:28:45,204 --> 01:28:45,934
guiding principles.

1706
01:28:47,464 --> 01:28:51,384
In the middle two, within the strategies to build one facility now and the other

1707
01:28:51,424 --> 01:28:55,184
later, strategy two, building the police department first,

1708
01:28:55,924 --> 01:28:59,464
ranks better than strategy three on environmental,

1709
01:28:59,924 --> 01:29:03,504
primarily because of those resiliency gains you get from a robust

1710
01:29:03,704 --> 01:29:07,484
911 and just the police department building in general, so

1711
01:29:07,564 --> 01:29:11,454
police can continue to operate, provide public services in an

1712
01:29:11,464 --> 01:29:12,084
emergency.

1713
01:29:13,684 --> 01:29:15,764
It, however, ranks lower on economic.

1714
01:29:16,744 --> 01:29:20,264
One is because that building just costs more than Civic Campus.

1715
01:29:20,304 --> 01:29:23,544
So even in the near term, that building costs more.

1716
01:29:23,584 --> 01:29:27,084
But also, you have that long-term lease required for the Civic Campus

1717
01:29:27,244 --> 01:29:31,084
options that aren't included in the dollar amounts, but we know is an

1718
01:29:31,124 --> 01:29:33,764
ongoing cost to the city on an annual basis.

1719
01:29:35,564 --> 01:29:39,224
Strategy three, the third one from the left, to build the Civic Campus

1720
01:29:39,324 --> 01:29:43,144
first, ranks slightly better on the community benefit than strategy

1721
01:29:43,184 --> 01:29:47,104
two because of these public gathering spaces that are incorporated in the building

1722
01:29:47,164 --> 01:29:48,464
design and the plus.

1723
01:29:50,084 --> 01:29:51,414
And strategy four,

1724
01:29:52,644 --> 01:29:55,304
which is the abandoned downtown near term,

1725
01:29:56,384 --> 01:29:59,924
does have some benefit on a technical

1726
01:29:59,944 --> 01:30:03,884
perspective. Theoretically, all of your staff is located in the same

1727
01:30:03,944 --> 01:30:07,904
leased facility, so those staff collaboration advantages

1728
01:30:08,004 --> 01:30:09,864
are achieved in this

1729
01:30:10,984 --> 01:30:14,744
option. And then for environmental, well, I think Mark's

1730
01:30:14,784 --> 01:30:18,214
graphics spoke for themselves. We're no longer occupying and

1731
01:30:18,244 --> 01:30:21,964
fueling two buildings that have such poor-- Again, with the

1732
01:30:22,024 --> 01:30:25,394
assumption and the hope that the leased facility that we find would

1733
01:30:25,444 --> 01:30:29,394
be a tighter envelope and a better performer on those

1734
01:30:29,404 --> 01:30:31,384
greenhouse gas kind of goals.

1735
01:30:35,964 --> 01:30:39,264
And then so that concludes the second part of

1736
01:30:39,344 --> 01:30:43,193
our conversation. So let me just go back to this slide and ask if there's any

1737
01:30:43,264 --> 01:30:46,144
questions on the IAP2 analysis.

1738
01:30:46,544 --> 01:30:50,504
Could you repeat what the community benefit, the

1739
01:30:50,584 --> 01:30:52,444
fourth item on community benefit?

1740
01:30:53,004 --> 01:30:55,074
First was welcoming and very inclusive.

1741
01:30:55,144 --> 01:30:57,724
Second was community vision and

1742
01:30:57,804 --> 01:31:01,504
organization. Third, equal spaces for community.

1743
01:31:01,544 --> 01:31:02,844
What was the fourth? Downtown-

1744
01:31:03,024 --> 01:31:05,404
Downtown vitality and a resilient Iowa.

1745
01:31:05,464 --> 01:31:05,824
Thanks.

1746
01:31:07,924 --> 01:31:09,764
And again, you will have this information.

1747
01:31:10,464 --> 01:31:10,784
Yeah, I

1748
01:31:11,804 --> 01:31:12,524
need to put it down.

1749
01:31:14,904 --> 01:31:15,344
Thank you.

1750
01:31:16,244 --> 01:31:16,544
Thanks.

1751
01:31:16,924 --> 01:31:17,124
Okay.

1752
01:31:18,164 --> 01:31:18,464
Okay.

1753
01:31:19,704 --> 01:31:20,204
Oh, good.

1754
01:31:21,084 --> 01:31:23,024
So a lot of information.

1755
01:31:23,984 --> 01:31:26,744
Big dollars, so maybe you're happy you're not making a decision today.

1756
01:31:28,684 --> 01:31:31,724
So then the next steps for us is to come back

1757
01:31:32,664 --> 01:31:34,374
at your work session on May 7th, where

1758
01:31:35,444 --> 01:31:39,164
we will have done some work investigating the revenue

1759
01:31:39,224 --> 01:31:42,684
sources that you asked us to investigate regarding facilities and

1760
01:31:42,844 --> 01:31:46,428
operating costs. So we'll be back at a work session there,

1761
01:31:47,048 --> 01:31:50,148
and then in June and maybe bleeding over into

1762
01:31:51,008 --> 01:31:54,648
early July, we'll start moving towards a

1763
01:31:54,688 --> 01:31:57,888
decision on the revenue side and facility side.

1764
01:31:57,948 --> 01:31:59,948
That's what we envision moving forward.

1765
01:32:00,008 --> 01:32:03,108
And these are-- They're difficult

1766
01:32:03,148 --> 01:32:06,248
challenges to address. And I think that's why,

1767
01:32:07,028 --> 01:32:10,588
again, I bring my props. We've come here many times

1768
01:32:10,708 --> 01:32:11,168
before,

1769
01:32:11,988 --> 01:32:15,788
and people have just stepped away because they're challenging

1770
01:32:15,848 --> 01:32:16,228
things.

1771
01:32:18,048 --> 01:32:21,848
But I believe it's our responsibility to act

1772
01:32:21,908 --> 01:32:22,628
responsible,

1773
01:32:24,108 --> 01:32:24,568
to

1774
01:32:25,468 --> 01:32:29,288
be good stewards of the organization that serves our community, and good

1775
01:32:29,368 --> 01:32:30,468
stewards of

1776
01:32:31,608 --> 01:32:33,628
the resources from our community.

1777
01:32:33,968 --> 01:32:37,818
So with that, other general questions, or I'll turn it over to the

1778
01:32:37,868 --> 01:32:38,467
manager.

1779
01:32:39,468 --> 01:32:40,468
Any other questions?

1780
01:32:42,988 --> 01:32:43,008
No.

1781
01:32:43,018 --> 01:32:43,208
Well,

1782
01:32:45,308 --> 01:32:47,978
I was going to say, for me, just based on what I see, it's like to me, the

1783
01:32:48,028 --> 01:32:48,868
decision's clear.

1784
01:32:49,268 --> 01:32:49,278
Mm-hmm.

1785
01:32:49,448 --> 01:32:52,128
But that's just me from a very data kind of

1786
01:32:52,288 --> 01:32:55,488
mindset. So I look forward to our next conversation,

1787
01:32:56,948 --> 01:32:59,148
and I appreciate the presentation and

1788
01:33:00,028 --> 01:33:00,928
the information.

1789
01:33:02,348 --> 01:33:02,968
John?

1790
01:33:03,068 --> 01:33:03,648
Yeah, I think

1791
01:33:05,488 --> 01:33:06,788
what's particularly striking

1792
01:33:08,908 --> 01:33:12,668
is the-- Well, for me, the decision, the direction seems pretty clear as

1793
01:33:12,748 --> 01:33:13,808
well for a number of

1794
01:33:14,608 --> 01:33:15,698
reasons. One is,

1795
01:33:17,168 --> 01:33:18,288
in terms of total cost,

1796
01:33:19,128 --> 01:33:22,738
it's going to be the cheapest solution, the best, the most cost-effective

1797
01:33:22,828 --> 01:33:23,347
solution.

1798
01:33:24,728 --> 01:33:28,288
I think it does dovetail nicely with what's coming out of the Downtown

1799
01:33:28,348 --> 01:33:30,188
Vitality Strategy Task Force.

1800
01:33:31,848 --> 01:33:35,448
I think it particularly demonstrates our commitment to downtown.

1801
01:33:37,948 --> 01:33:38,848
And I think that

1802
01:33:39,868 --> 01:33:42,808
to dive a little further into the cost side of things,

1803
01:33:43,628 --> 01:33:47,188
I think what's particularly striking, again, I'll make the comment again.

1804
01:33:48,048 --> 01:33:48,308
I think

1805
01:33:49,648 --> 01:33:53,627
we're used to living from this month to the next month or this year to the

1806
01:33:53,688 --> 01:33:57,648
next year. I think for a lot of folks thinking that, well, we'll just

1807
01:33:57,688 --> 01:34:00,428
delay it, seems like, well, it's a no-brainer.

1808
01:34:01,108 --> 01:34:03,368
That seems like a reasonable thing to do.

1809
01:34:04,208 --> 01:34:07,868
Yet the fact that construction costs going up on average

1810
01:34:08,528 --> 01:34:12,368
6% per year, it doesn't take very many years before

1811
01:34:12,428 --> 01:34:13,328
that becomes a

1812
01:34:15,928 --> 01:34:19,547
hurdle to overcome that we could have overcome many, many decades ago.

1813
01:34:20,768 --> 01:34:22,768
So I think that strikes me as well

1814
01:34:24,548 --> 01:34:25,288
as

1815
01:34:27,288 --> 01:34:30,048
a real takeaway from this.

1816
01:34:31,068 --> 01:34:33,028
I do think that I will,

1817
01:34:34,148 --> 01:34:37,748
I think in the interest of completeness, I do want to

1818
01:34:37,808 --> 01:34:39,568
highlight something that Jim said,

1819
01:34:40,388 --> 01:34:43,908
which is, there is that not very

1820
01:34:43,928 --> 01:34:47,848
desirable fifth option out there, which is to literally abandon

1821
01:34:47,868 --> 01:34:48,428
downtown,

1822
01:34:49,448 --> 01:34:52,248
and I don't think anybody's wanting that to happen.

1823
01:34:53,368 --> 01:34:55,248
But if the answer is

1824
01:34:56,408 --> 01:34:56,748
let's

1825
01:34:57,868 --> 01:35:00,628
find absolute cheapest

1826
01:35:00,848 --> 01:35:04,168
solution, we can relocate

1827
01:35:05,548 --> 01:35:06,988
completely out of downtown.

1828
01:35:07,828 --> 01:35:09,558
I've said this before. I'm

1829
01:35:10,548 --> 01:35:13,788
not as supportive of it, so I'll say it, but I'm not supportive of it.

1830
01:35:14,268 --> 01:35:17,288
We can certainly buy a building off the HP campus, and then we can

1831
01:35:17,748 --> 01:35:21,708
retrofit it, and good luck to the response time to Southtown for the

1832
01:35:22,288 --> 01:35:22,668
police

1833
01:35:23,988 --> 01:35:24,608
response

1834
01:35:25,608 --> 01:35:29,488
there. And downtown vitality will take an enormous hit.

1835
01:35:29,588 --> 01:35:32,668
This is I don't think this is what we want for our downtown.

1836
01:35:33,128 --> 01:35:35,857
So there are cheaper, quote unquote, "cheaper solutions"-

1837
01:35:36,008 --> 01:35:36,197
Cheaper

1838
01:35:36,508 --> 01:35:40,008
... in that we don't have to address this issue in the short term,

1839
01:35:40,668 --> 01:35:44,508
but more expensive in the long term because the impact will be felt for

1840
01:35:44,828 --> 01:35:45,568
generations.

1841
01:35:45,648 --> 01:35:45,808
Mm-hmm.

1842
01:35:46,528 --> 01:35:46,828
So

1843
01:35:47,948 --> 01:35:51,868
it's important for people to understand that

1844
01:35:51,908 --> 01:35:53,588
not only do we have

1845
01:35:54,888 --> 01:35:55,868
the opportunity

1846
01:35:57,148 --> 01:36:00,788
to put a stake in the ground for the future that will last

1847
01:36:00,848 --> 01:36:01,578
generations,

1848
01:36:02,808 --> 01:36:04,068
we also run the risk

1849
01:36:04,908 --> 01:36:08,568
of creating a situation that is likely

1850
01:36:08,608 --> 01:36:11,468
irrecoverable from for generations.

1851
01:36:11,768 --> 01:36:12,008
Mm-hmm.

1852
01:36:12,328 --> 01:36:15,148
So those are my observations. And as to

1853
01:36:16,828 --> 01:36:17,388
the topic

1854
01:36:17,428 --> 01:36:22,548
that

1855
01:36:23,248 --> 01:36:26,788
was discussed about police and safety downtown, I know one of the things coming out

1856
01:36:26,808 --> 01:36:30,478
of the Downtown Vitality Strategy Task Force is people want to save downtown.

1857
01:36:31,128 --> 01:36:31,308
Mm-hmm.

1858
01:36:32,148 --> 01:36:32,908
I think that

1859
01:36:35,248 --> 01:36:38,548
I certainly understand there are folks who

1860
01:36:40,368 --> 01:36:43,188
have challenges in their interactions with the police department.

1861
01:36:43,388 --> 01:36:44,648
If I were the police chief,

1862
01:36:45,548 --> 01:36:47,268
I would be highly

1863
01:36:49,128 --> 01:36:52,908
focused on effectiveness with the community,

1864
01:36:53,628 --> 01:36:57,618
and if things were getting dramatically and drastically

1865
01:36:57,748 --> 01:36:58,508
worse, I'd

1866
01:36:59,368 --> 01:37:03,018
certainly be all over that, and I certainly invite city manager and the

1867
01:37:03,108 --> 01:37:03,468
police

1868
01:37:04,828 --> 01:37:08,508
to address any concerns that they have in that

1869
01:37:08,568 --> 01:37:10,068
realm. But I don't...

1870
01:37:12,208 --> 01:37:16,188
Charlie made the comment that things are getting worse and worse, and I haven't

1871
01:37:16,248 --> 01:37:19,568
seen any evidence to that.

1872
01:37:19,628 --> 01:37:20,168
Not here.

1873
01:37:21,968 --> 01:37:24,268
The North Police Department is doing excellent.

1874
01:37:24,568 --> 01:37:28,228
I want to make it really clear that I'm not talking about them, but the

1875
01:37:28,288 --> 01:37:31,228
public perception-

1876
01:37:31,388 --> 01:37:32,268
Nationally

1877
01:37:32,708 --> 01:37:33,428
... nationally is not good.

1878
01:37:34,848 --> 01:37:35,828
Maybe we can change that.

1879
01:37:36,168 --> 01:37:38,368
Yeah. I think you have an opportunity to change that here.

1880
01:37:38,508 --> 01:37:40,218
Yeah. We think we have

1881
01:37:41,208 --> 01:37:44,268
a great situation here, so I wouldn't want to

1882
01:37:46,048 --> 01:37:49,708
take the multiple discussions and years of discussion we've had about

1883
01:37:49,788 --> 01:37:53,508
this, and make a decision about the location of a

1884
01:37:53,548 --> 01:37:54,688
police department,

1885
01:37:56,468 --> 01:37:59,048
based on perception of what's happening in Asheville.

1886
01:37:59,108 --> 01:37:59,288
Mm-hmm.

1887
01:37:59,358 --> 01:37:59,568
And so

1888
01:38:00,748 --> 01:38:03,688
I'm very supportive of moving forward with an option.

1889
01:38:05,128 --> 01:38:09,028
If I could just push back a little bit on your first part of that comment, not on

1890
01:38:09,068 --> 01:38:09,888
how police are doing.

1891
01:38:10,198 --> 01:38:10,278
Mm-hmm.

1892
01:38:11,668 --> 01:38:15,448
In terms of that it would be cheaper to go someplace

1893
01:38:15,548 --> 01:38:19,408
else, and your example being HP, it's important to

1894
01:38:19,508 --> 01:38:22,368
recognize, I think, in that conversations...

1895
01:38:22,408 --> 01:38:25,678
Like when someone hears it's cheaper, it's like, "Oh, well then it's cheaper." But

1896
01:38:25,748 --> 01:38:28,277
how much cheaper? Or is it cheaper?

1897
01:38:28,308 --> 01:38:30,808
Would be a question we would have to explore more.

1898
01:38:30,838 --> 01:38:30,838
Right.

1899
01:38:30,868 --> 01:38:34,508
The buildings in HP were constructed at a period of

1900
01:38:34,568 --> 01:38:35,998
time that,

1901
01:38:37,008 --> 01:38:40,668
at least in preliminary investigations or conversations,

1902
01:38:40,768 --> 01:38:44,388
don't seem to meet the seismic resiliency that we would need for a 911

1903
01:38:44,428 --> 01:38:44,948
facility.

1904
01:38:45,128 --> 01:38:45,258
Mm-hmm.

1905
01:38:45,368 --> 01:38:49,067
And so even if we bought the building, are we basically

1906
01:38:49,448 --> 01:38:53,188
tearing it down and constructing, at least for police, a new facility?

1907
01:38:54,108 --> 01:38:57,628
So that cheaper may be just a little bit nervous to have out there in

1908
01:38:57,688 --> 01:38:58,528
the world.

1909
01:38:58,728 --> 01:38:59,328
Okay. Yeah.

1910
01:38:59,348 --> 01:39:00,018
Because we know that-

1911
01:39:00,018 --> 01:39:01,488
Thank you for that clarification.

1912
01:39:02,008 --> 01:39:05,418
When I came up to Corvallis in 1995,

1913
01:39:06,448 --> 01:39:10,318
I worked in the, eventually, the newest building on the HP campus,

1914
01:39:10,378 --> 01:39:11,588
so that's 1995.

1915
01:39:12,428 --> 01:39:15,468
So I am aware of age of the buildings.

1916
01:39:15,968 --> 01:39:15,978
Yeah.

1917
01:39:16,028 --> 01:39:16,388
Second,

1918
01:39:17,828 --> 01:39:18,508
I do think,

1919
01:39:19,568 --> 01:39:23,148
your point of we would have to quantify the cost is

1920
01:39:23,248 --> 01:39:26,908
absolutely... I second that 1,000%, and I'm sorry if I misspoke

1921
01:39:26,988 --> 01:39:27,828
about that.

1922
01:39:27,848 --> 01:39:28,018
Mm-hmm.

1923
01:39:28,348 --> 01:39:32,138
I think what I meant to say, in terms of cheapest,

1924
01:39:32,508 --> 01:39:33,028
is that

1925
01:39:34,128 --> 01:39:35,308
we could make

1926
01:39:36,168 --> 01:39:40,128
that decision that would force that to be the solution in the short

1927
01:39:40,228 --> 01:39:43,838
term, and it might, in the first year,

1928
01:39:44,648 --> 01:39:48,268
save money or cost less than thinking something large.

1929
01:39:48,348 --> 01:39:51,908
But it will have both economic and

1930
01:39:52,428 --> 01:39:56,388
non-economic costs in the long run that I would posit actually

1931
01:39:56,468 --> 01:39:59,028
outweigh the cost of what we're looking at.

1932
01:39:59,188 --> 01:39:59,448
Mm-hmm.

1933
01:39:59,478 --> 01:39:59,478
Mm-hmm.

1934
01:39:59,508 --> 01:40:00,968
So thank you for the clarification.

1935
01:40:00,987 --> 01:40:01,128
Yeah.

1936
01:40:01,138 --> 01:40:03,368
And that's a great example, if I may, is-

1937
01:40:03,508 --> 01:40:03,628
Yeah

1938
01:40:03,668 --> 01:40:04,828
... the court building.

1939
01:40:06,248 --> 01:40:10,128
25 years ago, we chose to lease that building, not buy it.

1940
01:40:10,848 --> 01:40:11,478
We end up paying,

1941
01:40:12,648 --> 01:40:16,088
in today's dollars, $1.9 million in lease costs,

1942
01:40:16,588 --> 01:40:19,388
and then we went out and bought the building for another 1.4 million.

1943
01:40:20,198 --> 01:40:22,428
And that doesn't include all the money we had to pour into it,

1944
01:40:23,468 --> 01:40:25,828
as far as maintenance and everything else.

1945
01:40:26,208 --> 01:40:28,868
So it seems, oh, it's just cheap, let's just lease it.

1946
01:40:29,468 --> 01:40:30,368
But in the end,

1947
01:40:32,288 --> 01:40:34,168
that all adds up.

1948
01:40:34,248 --> 01:40:37,808
Yeah. And I would like to add about just the focus on downtown and the impact

1949
01:40:38,888 --> 01:40:40,308
our decisions have on downtown.

1950
01:40:41,348 --> 01:40:44,988
When I was the former city councilor for downtown, and any time a

1951
01:40:45,108 --> 01:40:48,858
business closes doors and you get a vacant storefront, people said, "Look,

1952
01:40:48,928 --> 01:40:49,668
downtown's dying."

1953
01:40:49,988 --> 01:40:50,148
Mm-hmm.

1954
01:40:50,308 --> 01:40:52,968
And the same thing was said when the county vacated their building and left

1955
01:40:53,028 --> 01:40:53,548
downtown.

1956
01:40:53,958 --> 01:40:53,958
Mm-hmm.

1957
01:40:53,968 --> 01:40:56,488
They felt everybody was like, "Look, downtown's going to die."

1958
01:40:56,628 --> 01:40:57,178
Mm-hmm.

1959
01:40:57,568 --> 01:40:58,228
What are we going to do?

1960
01:40:59,768 --> 01:41:03,388
We have task forces that shows that there's a lot of interest in

1961
01:41:03,448 --> 01:41:04,508
downtown, and

1962
01:41:05,508 --> 01:41:09,098
if we make a decision that removes city facilities from

1963
01:41:09,128 --> 01:41:09,648
downtown,

1964
01:41:11,108 --> 01:41:13,348
I think it's the nail in the coffin.

1965
01:41:13,378 --> 01:41:13,378
Sure.

1966
01:41:13,408 --> 01:41:17,348
That's the understatement. Because at least from the community's

1967
01:41:17,408 --> 01:41:20,948
perspective, is they're going to think we're abandoning what we say we care about,

1968
01:41:21,868 --> 01:41:24,468
and that's not the direction I would be happy to go at all.

1969
01:41:24,528 --> 01:41:26,088
So remember that I do not support-

1970
01:41:26,168 --> 01:41:27,918
I know.

1971
01:41:31,268 --> 01:41:32,788
I do want to address that there

1972
01:41:33,628 --> 01:41:37,548
can be a perception that it's, let's just do a cheaper solution.

1973
01:41:37,608 --> 01:41:39,548
And I think it can be cheaper in the moment,

1974
01:41:40,468 --> 01:41:43,268
and much more costly in the long run.

1975
01:41:43,648 --> 01:41:43,868
Yeah.

1976
01:41:44,268 --> 01:41:45,348
Yeah. In so many ways.

1977
01:41:45,408 --> 01:41:45,768
Yeah.

1978
01:41:45,828 --> 01:41:46,508
In so many ways.

1979
01:41:46,588 --> 01:41:47,028
That was my point.

1980
01:41:47,088 --> 01:41:47,828
Not just with money.

1981
01:41:48,128 --> 01:41:51,788
Well, part of what we're talking about is the cost of failure to act.

1982
01:41:52,048 --> 01:41:52,348
Mm-hmm.

1983
01:41:52,548 --> 01:41:56,028
There's also the cost if you just fail.

1984
01:41:57,868 --> 01:42:01,168
Because is it going to be a case we're going to be making

1985
01:42:01,368 --> 01:42:02,748
however we end up

1986
01:42:03,748 --> 01:42:07,717
articulating that, but we're going to have a story to tell, and part of

1987
01:42:07,748 --> 01:42:11,648
the story is what are the costs of our

1988
01:42:11,668 --> 01:42:13,108
failure-

1989
01:42:13,188 --> 01:42:13,508
Yes

1990
01:42:13,518 --> 01:42:16,588
... to maintain a presence downtown, to make use of

1991
01:42:16,648 --> 01:42:20,428
the opportunity that we have related to the

1992
01:42:21,048 --> 01:42:24,648
civic campus and downtown. There's some

1993
01:42:24,768 --> 01:42:27,528
aspects of that that we're only beginning to articulate.

1994
01:42:27,688 --> 01:42:28,128
Mm-hmm.

1995
01:42:28,928 --> 01:42:29,208
Which is

1996
01:42:30,388 --> 01:42:32,868
dealing with is that we have

1997
01:42:33,768 --> 01:42:36,748
a downtown vitality plan

1998
01:42:37,348 --> 01:42:37,808
that's

1999
01:42:38,648 --> 01:42:40,548
getting close, but it's not there yet.

2000
01:42:41,528 --> 01:42:42,028
And

2001
01:42:43,408 --> 01:42:47,248
so that whole aspect of a civic campus and

2002
01:42:47,288 --> 01:42:49,508
its relationship to a vital community

2003
01:42:50,428 --> 01:42:54,168
is something that would, in some ways, happen as part of a design

2004
01:42:54,248 --> 01:42:58,048
process, right? In order to undertake the design process, we

2005
01:42:58,108 --> 01:42:58,268
have

2006
01:42:59,748 --> 01:43:01,788
money to spend and decisions to make.

2007
01:43:02,328 --> 01:43:04,688
And so there's a wish we could put the

2008
01:43:05,628 --> 01:43:07,868
points a little bit because that's

2009
01:43:08,768 --> 01:43:10,568
part of the story we're trying to tell.

2010
01:43:10,928 --> 01:43:14,248
Is what can our downtown be, especially with

2011
01:43:15,228 --> 01:43:18,708
the civic campus, and a civic

2012
01:43:18,788 --> 01:43:20,588
campus that's reimagined

2013
01:43:21,568 --> 01:43:24,028
as a place for our community to gather

2014
01:43:24,908 --> 01:43:28,788
and for a place for our community to rub shoulders with the police department.

2015
01:43:28,828 --> 01:43:31,528
If you want to take a moment to try to reflect on the lack of it- ...

2016
01:43:32,188 --> 01:43:33,388
following through with these plans.

2017
01:43:33,488 --> 01:43:33,708
Yeah.

2018
01:43:33,928 --> 01:43:36,628
How much has that contributed to the current state of downtown?

2019
01:43:36,828 --> 01:43:37,108
Correct.

2020
01:43:37,488 --> 01:43:37,708
Yeah.

2021
01:43:37,758 --> 01:43:37,758
Yeah.

2022
01:43:38,268 --> 01:43:38,528
Yeah.

2023
01:43:38,808 --> 01:43:40,508
And it's hard to

2024
01:43:41,808 --> 01:43:42,988
communicate that vision

2025
01:43:43,848 --> 01:43:47,768
until it's there. But I've said this before, you think about

2026
01:43:48,148 --> 01:43:52,128
Riverfront Park, a lot of controversy over that.

2027
01:43:52,388 --> 01:43:52,688
Totally.

2028
01:43:52,698 --> 01:43:55,268
But who here could imagine downtown Corvallis without it?

2029
01:43:55,428 --> 01:43:55,748
Yeah.

2030
01:43:55,988 --> 01:43:56,018
Right.

2031
01:43:56,028 --> 01:43:56,748
And so it's-

2032
01:43:58,656 --> 01:44:01,316
I think this would be exactly the same.

2033
01:44:01,996 --> 01:44:05,816
To be fair, there was a lot of compromise that went into the final

2034
01:44:05,916 --> 01:44:09,716
design on downtown, because that was my first thing that I was

2035
01:44:09,756 --> 01:44:10,696
paying attention to-

2036
01:44:10,816 --> 01:44:10,986
Mm-hmm

2037
01:44:11,356 --> 01:44:14,415
... when I moved, so what was happening in Corvallis. I was a new resident.

2038
01:44:15,016 --> 01:44:17,806
And the original design is now what we ended up with.

2039
01:44:19,096 --> 01:44:20,136
So there was a lot-

2040
01:44:20,146 --> 01:44:22,226
You actually put it to a referendum, which I think-

2041
01:44:22,226 --> 01:44:24,116
A lot of community engagement in that

2042
01:44:24,126 --> 01:44:25,416
... failed.

2043
01:44:25,856 --> 01:44:29,795
I just wanted to interject that there are members of the downtown

2044
01:44:29,916 --> 01:44:30,796
task force

2045
01:44:31,616 --> 01:44:33,636
that are just making the connection

2046
01:44:35,196 --> 01:44:39,176
between the importance of having facilities downtown to the

2047
01:44:39,216 --> 01:44:43,176
vitality of downtown. So we have a job to

2048
01:44:43,216 --> 01:44:46,716
do to properly

2049
01:44:46,756 --> 01:44:50,036
communicate to the community the crucial

2050
01:44:51,316 --> 01:44:52,346
aspect of having

2051
01:44:53,296 --> 01:44:55,776
staff, police, community

2052
01:44:57,336 --> 01:44:58,216
focal point,

2053
01:44:59,956 --> 01:45:01,776
and then do this thing.

2054
01:45:03,156 --> 01:45:06,366
As I think you said, how would it look to the community

2055
01:45:07,196 --> 01:45:07,436
if

2056
01:45:09,296 --> 01:45:10,176
we fail at this?

2057
01:45:11,256 --> 01:45:14,376
How about we just give up and say, "Oh well, we can't afford it.

2058
01:45:14,396 --> 01:45:18,216
We're going to move up to H Street." In the middle of trying to

2059
01:45:18,236 --> 01:45:19,736
revitalize downtown?

2060
01:45:22,116 --> 01:45:22,916
So anyway.

2061
01:45:23,056 --> 01:45:25,896
We're failing by not making the difficult decision.

2062
01:45:25,996 --> 01:45:29,876
Right. So anyway, we have our work cut out for us from a messaging

2063
01:45:29,976 --> 01:45:33,736
standpoint, because we've been at the downtown task force and the

2064
01:45:33,796 --> 01:45:37,316
civic campus for how long, and people do not make the connection.

2065
01:45:38,916 --> 01:45:39,336
Clint.

2066
01:45:40,176 --> 01:45:40,396
I was

2067
01:45:41,416 --> 01:45:44,696
really involved in the downtown riverfront stuff

2068
01:45:45,096 --> 01:45:46,496
in more than one way,

2069
01:45:47,336 --> 01:45:51,176
and there were opponents, and there were proponents, but what they had in

2070
01:45:51,236 --> 01:45:53,196
common was that something was going to happen at the river.

2071
01:45:53,476 --> 01:45:53,996
Mm-hmm.

2072
01:45:54,396 --> 01:45:56,056
And so the

2073
01:45:57,016 --> 01:46:00,276
issue was around the details of what was going to happen, wasn't that

2074
01:46:00,356 --> 01:46:02,516
something wasn't going to happen.

2075
01:46:02,576 --> 01:46:03,596
And so

2076
01:46:04,736 --> 01:46:07,426
at core, there was consensus about

2077
01:46:09,036 --> 01:46:12,716
the riverfront. It was time to transform it into a parking lot,

2078
01:46:13,416 --> 01:46:15,476
because that's what it was, it was a gravel parking lot,

2079
01:46:16,656 --> 01:46:19,656
to something else. And

2080
01:46:21,676 --> 01:46:25,336
so part of our responsibility in all of this

2081
01:46:26,036 --> 01:46:29,096
is going to be to articulate the vision

2082
01:46:29,136 --> 01:46:30,436
that

2083
01:46:31,716 --> 01:46:35,256
this is the future we want, even if we don't know the

2084
01:46:35,296 --> 01:46:37,916
details yet, and even if there's going to be a lot of work to do

2085
01:46:38,756 --> 01:46:42,676
to articulate in specifics what is this

2086
01:46:42,736 --> 01:46:46,516
going to look like, how is it going to benefit the community and downtown.

2087
01:46:48,976 --> 01:46:52,936
And so if we're going to do this, it's our job to build that

2088
01:46:52,956 --> 01:46:53,276
consensus.

2089
01:46:53,516 --> 01:46:54,716
Mm-hmm. Right.

2090
01:46:54,856 --> 01:46:57,776
In the same way that people started planning

2091
01:46:58,716 --> 01:47:02,496
a future riverfront that was going to be not gravel parking lots

2092
01:47:02,536 --> 01:47:02,716
anyway.

2093
01:47:03,136 --> 01:47:06,616
Yeah. I think we need to decide what we want for camp.

2094
01:47:08,676 --> 01:47:10,696
But I'll give you an example.

2095
01:47:12,416 --> 01:47:16,016
Our City Hall right now, some people love it, some people hate it,

2096
01:47:16,636 --> 01:47:17,796
just by the looks of it.

2097
01:47:18,736 --> 01:47:22,646
But if you look at CHS, the old high school that's

2098
01:47:22,656 --> 01:47:26,516
torn down, I like the old school, but the new school,

2099
01:47:26,796 --> 01:47:28,136
so much better.

2100
01:47:28,176 --> 01:47:28,366
Mm-hmm.

2101
01:47:29,016 --> 01:47:30,986
Way better in terms of

2102
01:47:33,216 --> 01:47:34,325
classroom and

2103
01:47:35,176 --> 01:47:35,836
environment,

2104
01:47:36,656 --> 01:47:36,936
and-

2105
01:47:37,996 --> 01:47:39,076
I index this class I

2106
01:47:39,136 --> 01:47:42,656
disagree.

2107
01:47:43,116 --> 01:47:46,746
And you think about what can we do if we got rid of that

2108
01:47:49,276 --> 01:47:53,136
barracks, or whatever you want to call it, that the law enforcement

2109
01:47:53,196 --> 01:47:55,836
building is now. Guess what you could put there?

2110
01:47:56,296 --> 01:47:57,336
You could put-

2111
01:47:57,896 --> 01:47:57,906
Over/under

2112
01:47:57,906 --> 01:48:01,356
... you could put all kinds

2113
01:48:01,436 --> 01:48:05,336
of beneficial things for our folks.

2114
01:48:06,216 --> 01:48:09,876
We keep the courthouse, we keep the other historic aspects of

2115
01:48:09,936 --> 01:48:10,556
downtown.

2116
01:48:12,076 --> 01:48:12,316
So,

2117
01:48:13,476 --> 01:48:17,296
at first I thought, there's a lot of pushback

2118
01:48:17,356 --> 01:48:17,676
about

2119
01:48:19,075 --> 01:48:21,276
the city hall, we should preserve it.

2120
01:48:21,356 --> 01:48:25,216
But, the earthquake that's coming around, I don't know, the PBS

2121
01:48:26,216 --> 01:48:27,336
special, the

2122
01:48:28,776 --> 01:48:29,956
latest special on

2123
01:48:31,356 --> 01:48:31,576
the

2124
01:48:33,716 --> 01:48:35,296
big one.

2125
01:48:36,696 --> 01:48:40,416
30, 35% chance in the next 50 years.

2126
01:48:40,696 --> 01:48:43,956
So if we don't do something now, we're going to end up-

2127
01:48:44,136 --> 01:48:44,936
We might be forced to.

2128
01:48:44,996 --> 01:48:45,576
Yeah.

2129
01:48:45,636 --> 01:48:45,916
Right.

2130
01:48:46,336 --> 01:48:48,416
Yeah. We will not have

2131
01:48:50,076 --> 01:48:52,676
the facilities to continue with

2132
01:48:53,776 --> 01:48:54,796
operating the city.

2133
01:48:55,616 --> 01:48:59,336
So we're not going to wait for the earthquake to have

2134
01:48:59,356 --> 01:49:01,536
this happen, but if you think

2135
01:49:02,336 --> 01:49:02,465
it's

2136
01:49:03,736 --> 01:49:04,056
been

2137
01:49:04,996 --> 01:49:07,516
300 years since it last happened, and the average is

2138
01:49:08,496 --> 01:49:12,336
250 years, and yeah. Take a look at that and

2139
01:49:12,536 --> 01:49:13,496
be scared.

2140
01:49:15,536 --> 01:49:18,976
We definitely have some decisions to make and some more information to

2141
01:49:19,016 --> 01:49:19,996
come. So-

2142
01:49:20,716 --> 01:49:20,976
Yes

2143
01:49:21,076 --> 01:49:21,076
...

2144
01:49:22,756 --> 01:49:25,396
maybe we should move on here so we can get out of here at a reasonable time.

2145
01:49:25,996 --> 01:49:29,796
But again, I really appreciate the effort, the work, and I love the data.

2146
01:49:30,636 --> 01:49:31,436
Yeah.

2147
01:49:31,465 --> 01:49:31,465
Yeah.

2148
01:49:31,476 --> 01:49:31,816
Mm-hmm.

2149
01:49:32,976 --> 01:49:33,816
It can be shocking.

2150
01:49:34,376 --> 01:49:36,726
Yeah. It's similar to the person that said, also, "I'd really like that."

2151
01:49:36,796 --> 01:49:38,356
I'd like to see the money part of it.

2152
01:49:38,736 --> 01:49:39,536
Good. I know.

2153
01:49:42,216 --> 01:49:42,956
So we'll move on now.

2154
01:49:44,056 --> 01:49:47,016
Community comments, we did receive some written community comments in your email,

2155
01:49:47,776 --> 01:49:48,816
so be sure to read that.

2156
01:49:51,056 --> 01:49:52,876
Any questions on the three-month calendar?

2157
01:49:54,436 --> 01:49:54,916
Charles,

2158
01:49:55,896 --> 01:49:57,196
I submitted something-

2159
01:49:57,356 --> 01:49:57,696
Yeah

2160
01:49:57,716 --> 01:50:01,196
... and Council of Impact also submitted something to get on the

2161
01:50:01,256 --> 01:50:05,016
agenda. When are we actually going to have those conversations?

2162
01:50:05,256 --> 01:50:08,306
I'll be looking to schedule those things at the end of January.

2163
01:50:09,116 --> 01:50:13,056
With those, I was specifically waiting for the last conversation we had

2164
01:50:13,096 --> 01:50:15,736
on Monday around how the process should be.

2165
01:50:16,256 --> 01:50:17,426
So those are coming.

2166
01:50:17,636 --> 01:50:21,476
Okay. I didn't feel like we came to any sort of understanding of how the process

2167
01:50:21,516 --> 01:50:21,856
would be.

2168
01:50:21,956 --> 01:50:23,126
No. I think the only we're going to do at this point-

2169
01:50:23,136 --> 01:50:23,766
How I'm comfortable

2170
01:50:23,766 --> 01:50:25,196
... is to move forward and do it.

2171
01:50:26,936 --> 01:50:29,936
So that will be happening. Anything else?

2172
01:50:32,796 --> 01:50:35,896
All right. I'll turn the mic back. I say we're adjourned. Thank you.